EGL SI2 came back GIA I1- For the love of PETE!

[SB621]

I’m completely shocked and dumbfounded.

First I’m putting this out there because I’m hoping anyone searching for their forever diamond will not be take-in like I was. I know on this board there is always a debate about labs and what is better…blah blah…what has softer grading etc blah blah. I have never really thrown my hat in either circle. My original and 1st upgrade were purchased from a B&M store. I loved both diamonds and they both came with EGL international reports. I thought the color might be off but I never really worried about it. Due to the upgrade policy I didn’t really have a choice to go anywhere else.

But I’m digressing…I purchased my forever diamond this year and I have had my 2.04ct laying around since in the bank fault. I decided I might as well just sell it as truly a MRB just doesn’t sing to me at all. Because I know it is easier to sell a GIA certed diamond I sent my diamond in. Now for reference I HAVE taken my 2.04ct to several GIA appraisers to look at as I have changed the settings out etc and when I first bought it. Everyone agree it was SI2. The color was always between D-F. Well anyhow I get back my GIA cert over the weekend and smiling back at me was the Clarity grading of I1 due to twining whisps!!!! What- I seriously almost had a breakdown right there. Called GIA and the explanation was my diamond was right on the cusp. The 1 grader said SI2 and the other said I1 so they decided to go with the tougher grade.

So lesson learned- NEVER buy EGL because I just REALLY overpaid for an I1 diamond!!!!!!!!!

 

[Niel]

Oh I'm sorry.

Did it come back still in the colorless range?

And what hurts though is that it was soooo close to being an SI2

 

[sonnyjane]

I’m completely shocked and dumbfounded.

First I’m putting this out there because I’m hoping anyone searching for their forever diamond will not be take-in like I was. I know on this board there is always a debate about labs and what is better…blah blah…what has softer grading etc blah blah. I have never really thrown my hat in either circle. My original and 1st upgrade were purchased from a B&M store. I loved both diamonds and they both came with EGL international reports. I thought the color might be off but I never really worried about it. Due to the upgrade policy I didn’t really have a choice to go anywhere else.

But I’m digressing…I purchased my forever diamond this year and I have had my 2.04ct laying around since in the bank fault. I decided I might as well just sell it as truly a MRB just doesn’t sing to me at all. Because I know it is easier to sell a GIA certed diamond I sent my diamond in. Now for reference I HAVE taken my 2.04ct to several GIA appraisers to look at as I have changed the settings out etc and when I first bought it. Everyone agree it was SI2. The color was always between D-F. Well anyhow I get back my GIA cert over the weekend and smiling back at me was the Clarity grading of I1 due to twining whisps!!!! What- I seriously almost had a breakdown right there. Called GIA and the explanation was my diamond was right on the cusp. The 1 grader said SI2 and the other said I1 so they decided to go with the tougher grade.

So lesson learned- NEVER buy EGL because I just REALLY overpaid for an I1 diamond!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry to hear that, but I am also surprised that you have been on the boards since 2009 and have 5000+ posts and yet still weren't mentally prepared for this. I'd say you're lucky that the EGL cert was only off by one grade!

 

[chrono]

I'm so sorry SB. I guess it is a borderline stone where it could have been a "lucky" SI2 but it so happened that both graders decided to play it tough that day. To be off by 1 clarity grade for an EGL International is pretty good where I've read on PS that one could be off by up to 4 grades?

 

[SB621]

I’m completely shocked and dumbfounded.

First I’m putting this out there because I’m hoping anyone searching for their forever diamond will not be take-in like I was. I know on this board there is always a debate about labs and what is better…blah blah…what has softer grading etc blah blah. I have never really thrown my hat in either circle. My original and 1st upgrade were purchased from a B&M store. I loved both diamonds and they both came with EGL international reports. I thought the color might be off but I never really worried about it. Due to the upgrade policy I didn’t really have a choice to go anywhere else.

But I’m digressing…I purchased my forever diamond this year and I have had my 2.04ct laying around since in the bank fault. I decided I might as well just sell it as truly a MRB just doesn’t sing to me at all. Because I know it is easier to sell a GIA certed diamond I sent my diamond in. Now for reference I HAVE taken my 2.04ct to several GIA appraisers to look at as I have changed the settings out etc and when I first bought it. Everyone agree it was SI2. The color was always between D-F. Well anyhow I get back my GIA cert over the weekend and smiling back at me was the Clarity grading of I1 due to twining whisps!!!! What- I seriously almost had a breakdown right there. Called GIA and the explanation was my diamond was right on the cusp. The 1 grader said SI2 and the other said I1 so they decided to go with the tougher grade.

So lesson learned- NEVER buy EGL because I just REALLY overpaid for an I1 diamond!!!!!!!!!

I am sorry to hear that, but I am also surprised that you have been on the boards since 2009 and have 5000+ posts and yet still weren't mentally prepared for this. I'd say you're lucky that the EGL cert was only off by one grade!

Because I had it checked out by 4 different GIA appraisers who all said SI2 and i can't see anything with the naked eye. Hence my surprise.

Neil- Came back F which I was prepared for. EGL said D, 2 GIA appraisers said E and the other 2 said F. So I knew the color was in that range. EGL also came it XXX while GIA was XXVG.

 

[SB621]

I'm so sorry SB. I guess it is a borderline stone where it could have been a "lucky" SI2 but it so happened that both graders decided to play it tough that day. To be off by 1 clarity grade for an EGL International is pretty good where I've read on PS that one could be off by up to 4 grades?

Actually after talking to the GIA people they said that high colored diamonds in the colorless range tend to not be off at all from EGL. It is when you get to G/H and below that they tend to disagree with clarity etc.

 

[Christina...]

I'm sorry Sarah, that really sucks, but I'm surprised that you are surprised as well. Or, maybe you are more disappointed than surprised and I would be too. I've heard that you can argue the grade with GIA and resubmit the stone for another grade....perhaps this would be a good option for you especially since it appears to have been right on the borderline? I know it's costly but maybe it's worth it in this case?

 

[Christina...]

I'm so sorry SB. I guess it is a borderline stone where it could have been a "lucky" SI2 but it so happened that both graders decided to play it tough that day. To be off by 1 clarity grade for an EGL International is pretty good where I've read on PS that one could be off by up to 4 grades?

Actually after talking to the GIA people they said that high colored diamonds in the colorless range tend to not be off at all from EGL. It is when you get to G/H and below that they tend to disagree with clarity etc.

That's interesting, I was under the impression that GIA didn't know or care what another lab had graded the stone previously. It would seem that knowing what another lab had graded the stone would result in some bias on their part...?

 

[SB621]

I'm sorry Sarah, that really sucks, but I'm surprised that you are surprised as well. Or, maybe you are more disappointed than surprised and I would be too. I've heard that you can argue the grade with GIA and resubmit the stone for another grade....perhaps this would be a good option for you especially since it appears to have been right on the borderline? I know it's costly but maybe it's worth it in this case?

I'm semi debating it more out of prinicple then anything else, but the other part of me just doesn't really care to go more out of my way. And the really little voice in my head is saying this is an omen from the bling g-ds from above to not sell it and keep it Reset into a blake lively type of solitare as that is my current bling obession.

 

[Christina...]

I'm sorry Sarah, that really sucks, but I'm surprised that you are surprised as well. Or, maybe you are more disappointed than surprised and I would be too. I've heard that you can argue the grade with GIA and resubmit the stone for another grade....perhaps this would be a good option for you especially since it appears to have been right on the borderline? I know it's costly but maybe it's worth it in this case?

I'm semi debating it more out of prinicple then anything else, but the other part of me just doesn't really care to go more out of my way. And the really little voice in my head is saying this is an omen from the bling g-ds from above to not sell it and keep it Reset into a blake lively type of solitare as that is my current bling obession.

I could totally support this train of thought!!

 

[SB621]

I'm sorry Sarah, that really sucks, but I'm surprised that you are surprised as well. Or, maybe you are more disappointed than surprised and I would be too. I've heard that you can argue the grade with GIA and resubmit the stone for another grade....perhaps this would be a good option for you especially since it appears to have been right on the borderline? I know it's costly but maybe it's worth it in this case?

I'm semi debating it more out of prinicple then anything else, but the other part of me just doesn't really care to go more out of my way. And the really little voice in my head is saying this is an omen from the bling g-ds from above to not sell it and keep it Reset into a blake lively type of solitare as that is my current bling obession.

I could totally support this train of thought!!

I know right! I would do the opposite of her ring with a rose gold pave band and then a PLAT head, but I think it would or could look killer. I'm so very tempted I told myself I would try to sell it and in 6 months if nothing happens then I will do the reset I think. I just need to wait till after we move.

 

[chrono]

Actually after talking to the GIA people they said that high colored diamonds in the colorless range tend to not be off at all from EGL. It is when you get to G/H and below that they tend to disagree with clarity etc.

Did they mean EGL USA, EGL Israel, EGL international or some particular EGL branch or all EGL labs? IIRC, which EGL lab it is matters.

 

[Christina...]

I'm sorry Sarah, that really sucks, but I'm surprised that you are surprised as well. Or, maybe you are more disappointed than surprised and I would be too. I've heard that you can argue the grade with GIA and resubmit the stone for another grade....perhaps this would be a good option for you especially since it appears to have been right on the borderline? I know it's costly but maybe it's worth it in this case?

I'm semi debating it more out of prinicple then anything else, but the other part of me just doesn't really care to go more out of my way. And the really little voice in my head is saying this is an omen from the bling g-ds from above to not sell it and keep it Reset into a blake lively type of solitare as that is my current bling obession.

I could totally support this train of thought!!

I know right! I would do the opposite of her ring with a rose gold pave band and then a PLAT head, but I think it would or could look killer. I'm so very tempted I told myself I would try to sell it and in 6 months if nothing happens then I will do the reset I think. I just need to wait till after we move.

If selling the stone isn't necessary, then I wouldn't even wait 6 months! I adore her ring and think that it would make an absolutely beautiful second ering or RHR. I recently fallen in love with RG!! I would love to see what you came up with for a reset!!

edit LOL I got so excited when I read that you were considering not selling and just doing the reset that my eyes sort of glazed over the part that you need to get moved first. I'm still totally on board for this project...now or later.

 

[SB621]

Actually after talking to the GIA people they said that high colored diamonds in the colorless range tend to not be off at all from EGL. It is when you get to G/H and below that they tend to disagree with clarity etc.

Did they mean EGL USA, EGL Israel, EGL international or some particular EGL branch or all EGL labs? IIRC, which EGL lab it is matters.

Oh gosh I either didn't ask or don't remember if they did. However, I will say when speaking too 2 cosignments places that I was initally looking to cosign with both also mentioned similar facts that when a diamond is graded by both labs. Typically if it is higher in carat weight or higher in color then the EGL report is not as soft and comes back same as GIA. I guess that is there experience and I'm not sure how many times they have seen it happen. Once again I didn't really go in depth with them about it because I have had my diamond apprasied so many times that I knew the range it could be and didn't want to waste anyone's time.

 

[SB621]

Wow Christina talk about enabler. You could give Enerchi a run for her money.

Yup I just want to move first which should happen this winter. I wouldn't reset it anyway till then so it will just stay in the lock box. If I still have it once we are at our next destination it will be a lovely project for me to start for our new life in XX state milestone ring!

 

[arkieb1]

Hi,

Is it EGL USA or International EGL, its VERY common for EGL USA to be one or two grades out on clarity and one to three on colour and if its EGL International, Asia, Israel, India it can be up to three on clarity and five in colour. GIA are pretty harsh graders.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Have you never done a search here on Pricescope?
Its bleedingly obvious - especially if you search SI2 stones that they are priced like GIA I1's.
they can still be a better buy though

 

[SB621]

Have you never done a search here on Pricescope?
Its bleedingly obvious - especially if you search SI2 stones that they are priced like GIA I1's.
they can still be a better buy though

I bought it before I was really active on PS. At least on the diamond forum, more so on the CS forum. Did you really just say bleeding obvious

 

[Circe]

SB ... if the initial thought to sell was prompted by your starting to like old cuts more than modern ones, why not send it to Ari at Singlestone to see if it might be a candidate for a makeover? A lot of the time they seem to lose minimal weight, but improve stat-wise (Backwards in High Heels went up a color grade and a clarity grade, I think). Could be a win-win. I might be biased because I'm seriously thinking of doing this with my MRB. I'll probably end up with a more transitional stone than I did if I sold it and bought new ... But I'll keep the sentiment of the original e-ring, AND probably save money and agita. Again, win-win! I am all about minimizing the hassle, these days.

 

[makemepretty]

If it's eye clean, I mean completely eye clean at any distance and you can only see the "flaw" with a 10x loupe then I wouldn't sell it with the GIA report. Sell it as you bought it. I'd have no problem buying a non GIA diamond that was completely eye clean labeled as an SI2 and the majority of consumers wouldn't care either. You know who cares? Pricescope people. But I'm a Pricescope person and so are you and we didn't care, so not even all the Pricscope people. Heck, one of the highly prized vendors who people repeatedly buy from, doesn't use GIA as a lab. From your own description they went off ONE persons opinion. You could easily sell it on ebay. Don't be too upset. I don't know what you paid but I'm guessing that since it wasn't GIA when you bought it, that you didn't over pay anyway. I bet you have a beautiful diamond, I see the arrows in the picture you posted, you just need the right buyer and he or she is out there.

 

[Enerchi]

SB ... if the initial thought to sell was prompted by your starting to like old cuts more than modern ones, why not send it to Ari at Singlestone to see if it might be a candidate for a makeover? A lot of the time they seem to lose minimal weight, but improve stat-wise (Backwards in High Heels went up a color grade and a clarity grade, I think). Could be a win-win. I might be biased because I'm seriously thinking of doing this with my MRB. I'll probably end up with a more transitional stone than I did if I sold it and bought new ... But I'll keep the sentiment of the original e-ring, AND probably save money and agita. Again, win-win! I am all about minimizing the hassle, these days.

+1!!!!

LOVING This idea, circe!!! Who doesn't need another amazing diamond?? or two.... or more....

 

[denverappraiser]

Buying EGL and resubmitting it to GIA in the hopes of an upgrade (meaning in the hopes that it will be the same grade but a better lab and therefore more valuable) is a gambling game. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. The 'double down' position is to either complain to GIA and ask for a recheck or to resubmit it to AGS and see if they like it better (or both).

 

[SB621]

Buying EGL and resubmitting it to GIA in the hopes of an upgrade (meaning in the hopes that it will be the same grade but a better lab and therefore more valuable) is a gambling game. Sometimes you win, sometimes you loose. The 'double down' position is to either complain to GIA and ask for a recheck or to resubmit it to AGS and see if they like it better (or both).

Hmmm I never thought about resubmitting it to AGS to see what they say. I almost want to because I'm curious for the outcome. Thank you Mr. DA!

 

[SB621]

SB ... if the initial thought to sell was prompted by your starting to like old cuts more than modern ones, why not send it to Ari at Singlestone to see if it might be a candidate for a makeover? A lot of the time they seem to lose minimal weight, but improve stat-wise (Backwards in High Heels went up a color grade and a clarity grade, I think). Could be a win-win. I might be biased because I'm seriously thinking of doing this with my MRB. I'll probably end up with a more transitional stone than I did if I sold it and bought new ... But I'll keep the sentiment of the original e-ring, AND probably save money and agita. Again, win-win! I am all about minimizing the hassle, these days.

+1!!!!

LOVING This idea, circe!!! Who doesn't need another amazing diamond?? or two.... or more....

You guys are bad. Really . No I really think I will try to sell it for now. I just don't wear muliple erings. I love the one I have and on days where I can't or shouldn't wear it I have been wearing my heirloom set or my sapphire stack. If I kept it - honestly it would just continue to sit in the bank vault.

 

[Circe]

SB ... if the initial thought to sell was prompted by your starting to like old cuts more than modern ones, why not send it to Ari at Singlestone to see if it might be a candidate for a makeover? A lot of the time they seem to lose minimal weight, but improve stat-wise (Backwards in High Heels went up a color grade and a clarity grade, I think). Could be a win-win. I might be biased because I'm seriously thinking of doing this with my MRB. I'll probably end up with a more transitional stone than I did if I sold it and bought new ... But I'll keep the sentiment of the original e-ring, AND probably save money and agita. Again, win-win! I am all about minimizing the hassle, these days.

+1!!!!

LOVING This idea, circe!!! Who doesn't need another amazing diamond?? or two.... or more....

You guys are bad. Really . No I really think I will try to sell it for now. I just don't wear muliple erings. I love the one I have and on days where I can't or shouldn't wear it I have been wearing my heirloom set or my sapphire stack. If I kept it - honestly it would just continue to sit in the bank vault.

Or it could be a beautiful old cut pendant ...

I'll stop. My inner enabler just felt the presence of kindred spirits and needed to stick its head out.

 

[AprilBaby]

Not sure why you are so surprised but if you are not short on money I would keep it and make something nice. A girl can't have too many diamonds!

 

[Enerchi]

SB ... if the initial thought to sell was prompted by your starting to like old cuts more than modern ones, why not send it to Ari at Singlestone to see if it might be a candidate for a makeover? A lot of the time they seem to lose minimal weight, but improve stat-wise (Backwards in High Heels went up a color grade and a clarity grade, I think). Could be a win-win. I might be biased because I'm seriously thinking of doing this with my MRB. I'll probably end up with a more transitional stone than I did if I sold it and bought new ... But I'll keep the sentiment of the original e-ring, AND probably save money and agita. Again, win-win! I am all about minimizing the hassle, these days.

+1!!!!

LOVING This idea, circe!!! Who doesn't need another amazing diamond?? or two.... or more....

You guys are bad. Really . No I really think I will try to sell it for now. I just don't wear muliple erings. I love the one I have and on days where I can't or shouldn't wear it I have been wearing my heirloom set or my sapphire stack. If I kept it - honestly it would just continue to sit in the bank vault.

Or it could be a beautiful old cut pendant ...

I'll stop. My inner enabler just felt the presence of kindred spirits and needed to stick its head out.

....or... I'd be willing to wear it for you --- cuz that's the kind of helping person I am!! Nurses just give give give, till it hurts. We sacrifice day and night for those under our care. And I care about you SB, so I'm just doing my duty and offering up my chubby stubby hands as an offering of where to put your sparkler The offer is there --- just sayin'!

 

[Christina...]

Enerchi and I are essentially the same size so...I like you too and want to offer up my finger as well!

 

[Christina...]

If it's eye clean, I mean completely eye clean at any distance and you can only see the "flaw" with a 10x loupe then I wouldn't sell it with the GIA report. Sell it as you bought it. I'd have no problem buying a non GIA diamond that was completely eye clean labeled as an SI2 and the majority of consumers wouldn't care either. You know who cares? Pricescope people. But I'm a Pricescope person and so are you and we didn't care, so not even all the Pricscope people. Heck, one of the highly prized vendors who people repeatedly buy from, doesn't use GIA as a lab. From your own description they went off ONE persons opinion.[/b] You could easily sell it on ebay. Don't be too upset. I don't know what you paid but I'm guessing that since it wasn't GIA when you bought it, that you didn't over pay anyway. I bet you have a beautiful diamond, I see the arrows in the picture you posted, you just need the right buyer and he or she is out there.

While I have no personal experience individually submitting stones to GIA, it's always been my understanding that color and clarity grades are not based on ONE persons opinion. According to the GIA website, a minimum of two graders will assess the stones clarity and independently enter a grade. A grade is only issued once there has been sufficient agreeing opinions.

from GIA.edu


GRADING CLARITY AND FINISH

Clarity is graded with 10x magnification under standard viewing conditions. The preliminary grader carefully examines the diamond to locate clarity/finish characteristics and evidence of any diamond treatments, such as fracture filling or laser drilling.

The preliminary grader assigns an opinion of the diamond’s clarity, polish and symmetry, then plots the clarity characteristics on a diagram most representative of the diamond’s shape and faceting style, which is selected from a database of hundreds of digitally stored diagrams. During this step, the grader verifies all previously captured weight and measurement data and assigns written descriptions of the diamond’s culet and girdle thickness. For a round brilliant cut diamond, this measurement data, along with polish and symmetry assessments, is used to determine its GIA Cut Grade. Additional steps are also taken during this grading process, and all others, to check and double check for indicators of known diamond treatments and synthetics.

A second grader then carefully and thoroughly examines the diamond to locate and identify clarity/finish characteristics and, again, the presence of any diamond treatments. This grader performs all the same grading steps done by the previous grader and then enters an independent opinion on clarity/polish/symmetry.

Depending on the diamond’s weight, quality, and the agreement of grading opinions, additional quality assurance process steps are also performed. More experienced staff gemologists may review all of the previous grading information and render independent clarity/polish/symmetry opinions. Grading results are finalized once there are sufficient agreeing opinions.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Sorry SB.
I really feel terrible that people get the impression there's any debate about EGL grading.
Dealers know, without any doubt, EGL grading is soft. Period. There's no "forumla"- it can be one grade softer or five grades softer
Many of the EGL Si2 diamonds on the market have GIA I1 reports that the dealers throw away.

Another very important term, which is used by many, and is totally incorrect is "GIA Appraiser"
Any appraiser making people believe they have any connection whatsoever to GIA is misleading folks in a big way.
It does not matter one iota if they have taken GIA courses- GIA does not "accredit" appraisers, and no legit appraiser will lead someone to believe they can predict what GIA will grade a diamond with surety.
They can guess, but that's about it. How much is a guess worth?
Not a lot- and even less if it's done in a way that gives a consumer the impression it's more than a guess.....
Sorry for the rant- but this is a common misconception, and a lot of consumers have lost due to it