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EGL CERTIFIED BUT WOULD LIKE GIA CERT

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marquiselover

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
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38
Hi,

Question- say you purchase a EGL certified diamond, can you then turn around and have it certified by GIA? BTW i have searched the forum and noticed that most of the comments regarding EGL Europe have not been really favorable. I found another Marquise diamond I liked the jewelry store faxed me the rpt and said it was EGL F,VS2 which probably means its an h/si2??? Do jewelry stores normally do their own independent appraisal of their diamonds to ensure the certificates match the actual diamond????????? i consider this b&m to be quite reputable and i can''t see them selling something that is not what it claims to be.........

.........
 

belle

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 19, 2004
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10,285
of course you can have it graded by gia. there is a fee involved, so you are adding to the overall cost of the diamond but if you want a gia grading report, you can get one.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 30, 2005
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26,954
Be prepared, it may not get the same grades.

How will you feel then?
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
Date: 12/6/2006 11:10:47 PM
Author:marquiselover
Hi,

Question- say you purchase a EGL certified diamond, can you then turn around and have it certified by GIA? BTW i have searched the forum and noticed that most of the comments regarding EGL Europe have not been really favorable. I found another Marquise diamond I liked the jewelry store faxed me the rpt and said it was EGL F,VS2 which probably means its an h/si2??? Do jewelry stores normally do their own independent appraisal of their diamonds to ensure the certificates match the actual diamond????????? i consider this b&m to be quite reputable and i can''t see them selling something that is not what it claims to be.........

.........
i think PScopers are a little too exaggerated in how loose EGL europes are. If it''s F VS2 i''d say the worst you''ll get in GIA is probably G SI2. and that''s the worst.
if you trust them to be fair and the price is right, why not. very often vendors who sell EGL Europes give the stone at a fair price for what it would have been graded as GIA just that they present it with the EGL Europes grades, somewhat deceptive but not an actual rip-off.
 

:)

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Jul 25, 2006
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1,864
Date: 12/7/2006 12:29:42 AM
Author: DBM

Date: 12/6/2006 11:10:47 PM
Author:marquiselover
Hi,

Question- say you purchase a EGL certified diamond, can you then turn around and have it certified by GIA? BTW i have searched the forum and noticed that most of the comments regarding EGL Europe have not been really favorable. I found another Marquise diamond I liked the jewelry store faxed me the rpt and said it was EGL F,VS2 which probably means its an h/si2??? Do jewelry stores normally do their own independent appraisal of their diamonds to ensure the certificates match the actual diamond????????? i consider this b&m to be quite reputable and i can''t see them selling something that is not what it claims to be.........

.........
i think PScopers are a little too exaggerated in how loose EGL europes are. If it''s F VS2 i''d say the worst you''ll get in GIA is probably G SI2. and that''s the worst.
if you trust them to be fair and the price is right, why not. very often vendors who sell EGL Europes give the stone at a fair price for what it would have been graded as GIA just that they present it with the EGL Europes grades, somewhat deceptive but not an actual rip-off.
Uh, No. I had an EGL Israel graded H SI2 - turned out to be a J I2, so yes, it is possible to be both two colors and two clarities off - this is why their reputation is not good. And the price was not ''fair'' for a J I2 - no where even remotely NEAR it. (and yes, the master appraiser used to grade for GIA until they moved down to San Diego)
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
while i'm sure you're correct i don't honestly think that's the norm. usually EGL Europe is not that far out from my experience. others are free to weigh in on this with their experiences

as for the unfair price.. sorry to hear. most dealers i know that sell EGL Europes do so with fair prices but i'm just limited to the nyc district so i could be wrong. just my impression.
 

Kaleigh

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 18, 2004
Messages
29,570
DBM,
We don''t exaggerate on this. We tell it like it is. How many times have we read that someone got an EGL europe stone only to find that the color was off as well as the clarity. We report what we hear from consumers with real life experiences. Most of whom have gone to highly respected independent appraisers. Not to say this is always the case with EGL europe, but so far they have a reputation for being a very loose grading lab.
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
Date: 12/7/2006 1:10:53 AM
Author: Kaleigh
DBM,
We don''t exaggerate on this. We tell it like it is. How many times have we read that someone got an EGL europe stone only to find that the color was off as well as the clarity. We report what we hear from consumers with real life experiences. Most of whom have gone to highly respected independent appraisers. Not to say this is always the case with EGL europe, but so far they have a reputation for being a very loose grading lab.
i think you''re misunderstanding. the issue is not the accuracy of EGL Europe. the issue is how great is there inaccuracy...
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
just for the sake of clarifying the original post:

assume the diamond is a G SI2 and then see if the price is right. that''s what i would do if i only had the numbers in front of me and i couldn''t grade the diamonds myself.
or if you trust the jeweler you deal with that''s another story and a matter of subjectivity. you may want to just trust them to give you a fair price.
 

justjulia

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Apr 4, 2006
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2,308
At the risk of sticking my nose in and sounding really stupid... I would believe that a person would want the GIA cert knowledge before ordering, just to know better what they are putting their money towards. Diamonds are not usually investment material, and I don''t see the value of havng a GIA cert after you own it. If you are looking at a diamond that has already been evaluated by an EGL lab, this has presumably added some cost that has been passed on to you. Getting another evaluation by a GIA lab would only add to that cost. Do you want that? Why not look for a new diamond with a GIA cert and nothing else? Or, if this is the diamond for your fiance to be, and you like what you see (i.e., you have seen it in person), and it has the EGL cert, why not buy it and be happy? Personally, I look for a good trade up policy, in case you do get it home and you see a bow tie that drives you crazy, or start to perseverate on inclusions. Just my 2 cents. Otherwise, if I was buying online, I''d be talking to someone at their end to describe the diamond to me, and again, know that they have a good return and trade up policy.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
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4,607
I have read on this forum that EGL Israel is worse than the other EGL labs but that they are all off with their grading when compared to GIA. As long as the price is fair. I have also read that all labs have their own grading scale meaning they are not trying to copy GIA. In other words their G is what they think a G should be not what GIA says a G should be. They are not seeing GIA as a standard in the way we are. Checking the price is the main thing. That being said I would not buy an EGL diamond now but I know I would be paying more for a GIA or AGS diamond and certificate too.
 

marquiselover

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
38
Thanks to all that responded with your input!!!!!!!!!!


I am actually looking at 2 mq stones, a 1.13 which is EGL and 1.05 GIA which i posted about in an earlier message. I have seen both stones in person and they both looked fine, so thats why i was surprised when the sales person mentioned the one was egl, i just assumed all of their diamonds were gia (obviousely a bad assumption on my part) i''m going to see both diamonds again tomorrow. i do know the store has a 90 day return policy. i am actually looking to upgrade my wedding ring (specifically the center stone) just from the post i have read about egl, what are the chances that stone would turn out fine.......... probably slim to none. I should probably stick with the 1.05 which was my original thought, but i liked the size of the 1.13, and the sales person did mention they could get other diamonds in too. The saga continues
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
there is a big difference between EGLUSA and EGL from labs in Europe, Israel, etc The former just has softer guidelines for what they consider for color, clarity... the latter is well... questionable what their conclusions are based on IMO....
maybe the saleslady is talking about EGLUSA
 

marquiselover

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
38
DBM-It is EGL Europe, there is a 10 digit cert number and it begins with 98, from what i have read these means it came from Israel, correct?
 

jaz464

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jul 11, 2005
Messages
2,022
Instead of sending the diamond out to GIA, which can take awhile, I would just have it independently appraised. This means not by the (or any) jewelry store. You can spend an hour or 2 with an appraiser and you should be able to figure out just what you are working with. If the diamond appraises lower but you still love it, you will have more bargaining power with the shop.
 

DBM

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2006
Messages
404
Date: 12/7/2006 8:36:46 AM
Author: marquiselover
DBM-It is EGL Europe, there is a 10 digit cert number and it begins with 98, from what i have read these means it came from Israel, correct?
sorry i''m not very familiar with the format of EGL Europe cert numbers.. i don''t really differentiate (personally) between Israel or Belgium or whatever- i look at all EGL from non-US labs the same way.

if you just want the GIA cert to verify to yourself a fair price i think jazmine is giving an excellent point, just take it for an appraisal. If you want the GIA cert for instance for the definite say in what it''s worst grading could be (both for the curiosity of it and for gauging it''s value should you wish to resell it later down the road, you have more leverage with a trade-in with a GIA cert) then you''ll have to give it to GIA, wait the time and pay the fees.
 

marquiselover

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
38

This is the response I received back from the jeweler regardin the EGL grading


If you would like to go ahead and have us send it to GIA to get a report from them, we could do that. The additional cost for this would be at $150.00 and it would take approx. 3 weeks to complete. i have attached a pic of 3 MQ I looked at. BTW I have ruled out the 1.01 so really its between the 1.05 and the 1.13. *Remember the 1.13 is EGL Europe graded as an F/VS2??


Thoughts?


DSCN4020.jpg
 

mtrb

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Mar 8, 2003
Messages
207
Just looking at the 1.13 stone, I would venture to bet it comes back as a G-H color. I just assume it will come back as an SI1 or SI2 because it is EGL Europe. What did your jeweler say about this? Do they admit the grading will probably be lesser with the EGL cert?


I think any good jeweler would allow you to send it to GIA if you were willing to pay for the cert.. or better yet..absorb the cost if you decide against it.

Honestly, An EGL certed diamond to me is no better than an independant apprasial, so if GIA is what you want then go for it.


I have a GIA cert and would not buy a stone that was not GIA or AGS certed.
 

starryeyed

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 6, 2006
Messages
2,398
Marquiselover, did you see this section on the tutorial about Pricing & Labs?

From a 2004 study, EGL (Overseas) diamonds can trade at 13-21.4% less than GIA diamonds. I''m not sure if these numbers are still accurate for 2006, but it might give you a rough basis for cost comparison.
 

marquiselover

Rough_Rock
Joined
Nov 11, 2006
Messages
38
Update to my post from 12/7-

I emailed the sales person at the jewelry store about the EGL diamond, this is the response I received back:


I also took this diamond to two other GIA trained Graduate Gemologists besides myself and each of us agrees that even if we send this to GIA, they''re most likely going to grade this at an F in color (if they''re being extremely strict, a very high G) and definitely a VS2 in clarity. So they''re really not going to be 2 grades off on this particular diamond. I wouldn''t worry to much about the report personally because it''s a beautiful diamond and we''re a very reputable jewelry store. Since we''ve already purchased this diamond with an EGL report, we would need you to pay for the diamond in full, so that it is yours and then we could send it to GIA for a fee of $150.00 to have it regraded to their standards with that new report. Now, if for whatever reason you did not want that diamond when it is returned, you may return the diamond for the full amount but you will lose the $150.00 that it costs us to send it to GIA. Also, this process will take 4-6 weeks for them to produce a new report.

So my question is if this does come back as a G instead of an F is there a big price difference????????????

I want to make sure i''m getting a fair price.
 

FireGoddess

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 25, 2005
Messages
12,145
Date: 12/6/2006 11:10:47 PM
Author:marquiselover
Hi,

Question- say you purchase a EGL certified diamond, can you then turn around and have it certified by GIA? BTW i have searched the forum and noticed that most of the comments regarding EGL Europe have not been really favorable. I found another Marquise diamond I liked the jewelry store faxed me the rpt and said it was EGL F,VS2 which probably means its an h/si2??? Do jewelry stores normally do their own independent appraisal of their diamonds to ensure the certificates match the actual diamond????????? i consider this b&m to be quite reputable and i can't see them selling something that is not what it claims to be.........

.........
I'm sorry, but I do think that's a gross exaggeration. According to the study on PS, and some experiences here, EGL can be somewhat soft on color (one grade, maybe two in some instances) but they were actually STRICTER in clarity. I highly doubt an EGL is VS2 is going to come back an SI2. Also, EGL USA has a better rep than EGL Europe/Israel.

ETA: As for your update (the above was a response to the first post without reading all the rest), will they charge you a G price if it comes back G, or still the F? Did they talk to you about that before the regrading?
 

curiopotter

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 27, 2006
Messages
658
Okay, so we all know EGL is loose on grading reports, that''s a given, and that topic has now been covered completely.



If I were you, I would take the time to find a trusted independent appraiser, and have them look at the stone. You want them to be working for you, not colleagues of your jewelry store. Get them to write it on paper.


What everyone failed to mention (although jazmine touched on the subject) is that EVEN IF the stone is SI1 or SI2, that''s not necessarily a bad thing. If the stone is completely eye clean, and you absolutely love it regardless of it''s grading, then at least it gives you the opportunity to bargan; and that''s a good thing.

Just because the rating is off, doesn''t mean you shouldn''t get it. Just make sure the price is adjusted for what it''s actually worth.
 
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