Educational Background of PS'ers

[Haven]

For you teachers, I had no idea adjunct faculty make peanuts! I feel so badly. My favorites are adjunct faculty. What makes a person a tenure? # of years served? Or just an opening for a FT position?

Adjunct faculty are part-time instructors, whereas tenured or tenure-track faculty are FT professors. In community colleges, at least, it is very easy to get a position as an adjunct instructor, whereas FT positions are extremely rare and highly competitive.

 

[armywife13]

Thank you for the congratulations, Deb! And congratulations to your godson, his wife, and you/your family! I am due 7/5/13, when are they due?

Thank you for the good wishes, armywife! I believe the due date is June 20, 2013. I am sure it is June, but I could be off about it being the 20th. It will be interesting to see which of you actually delivers first, however! First babies are often slow, and Christy's will be a first baby. So maybe hers will wait for yours. How does the 4th of July sound for a birthday?

Deb

Congrats Armywife!!!!!

Thanks Skippy!

Deb,
It will definitely be interesting to see when the babies come! I think mine might come at the end of June, DD came a week early, so maybe this one will so the same. We will see!

I am going to bow out now, I don't want to thread jack anymore than I already have!

 

[Octavia]

I have a J.D. and would love to do a master's in something...just not sure exactly what. Ideally, it will be something that will help me transition out of being a lawyer at some point (although I enjoy my current job, I probably won't do it forever and I've discovered that I don't really want to go into traditional "lawyering") but will allow me to do something really cool in combination with my law degree. I just keep waiting for inspiration to strike, though, since I don't want to spend time and money on another degree only to discover that it wasn't the right one. Also, I don't want to quit my job to go back to school, and a lot of programs I find interesting aren't really adapted for working people. In the meantime, I like to take non-credit classes at local community colleges in various subjects I find interesting -- it's so much less pressure (and so much cheaper!) than being in a degree program.

Hi Octavia, have you considered a masters in business administration? That could be extremely helpful in your field. My dh has a JD and an MBA and has done various things throughout his career- not just law. It is a useful and versatile degree. I think you can do it while working as well.

Hi Missy! I've thought of an MBA (mainly because most schools have "executive" programs that are designed for people with full-time jobs) but I just don't think it's for me. What types of things has your husband done, if you're comfortable sharing? Maybe it's just that I can't think of a job I would want to do that an MBA would be really helpful for...

Octavia-are you at all interested in bioethics? I work in the bioethics/regulatory affairs field, and there are a decent number of JDs. If you're interested in research/medicine it could be a good fit. Most have a JD as well as a master of bioethics.

To the original topic, I have a BS in psych and am halfway through my master of bioethics.

Thing2, that's actually a very interesting suggestion. I work in administrative law, so I deal with regulations every day and I'm one of those wierdos who actually likes them. I'd love to be doing regulatory affairs in the environmental field, but jobs can be really hard to get -- I imagine there a few more jobs in the bioethics field, though, especially in areas with large research/teaching hospitals? I will certainly keep this in mind and look into it some more!


Slight tangent, but I often listen to NPR at work and lately they've been doing a series on the free online universities. I checked out Coursera and it seems like they have some pretty interesting classes, so I'm going to give one a try! It could be a great way to learn something new for a few hours a week, from the comfort of my living room. Has anyone else done this? If so, how did it go?

 

[madelise]

I think she is going to be any amazing big sis, she is going to love having someone to play with! I don't think she completely grasps everything that is going on and how things will be changing, since she is 2. She must have known something was up though, since I tested a few days early because she pointed at my belly and said "baby". When she said that to me, I thought to myself, "hmmm I shouldn't be, but I better be if she is saying that because otherwise she's saying my stomach looks big enough to be holding a baby-which is a little insulting!"

That's so crazy! She has some ESP going on! I'm sure you didn't LOOK pregnant, esp since you tested a few days early, lol! Kids just say the darndest things. I'm so happy for you! Your LO is going to love having someone else to play with, available at any time of the day

 

[texaskj]

Since an advanced degree in journalism is a huge waste of money unless you want to teach, I quit after my B.A.
The business is changing so fast and shedding people; I would go back to school if I had any clue at all what to do. I worked on my first newspaper at 10 and was hooked. I already decided what I wanted to be when I grew up and now I have to do it again?

 

[Dancing Fire]

ETA: For those of you commenting on living with parents and driving fancy cars.. I realized something. The people I am referring to are all of a certain culture that values multigenerational households. You don't move out. You just expand. Some cultures do this with just the oldest son.. others do it with the whole family. Males stay with their parents, females move out only upon marriage. It's shameful to the family if you move out of the house before marrying. So.. I don't just live in an area with TOTAL a$$hats It's a culturally influenced thing, as well as a generational thing. By generational, I mean our generation is getting more and more competitive with "the Joneses". Everyone posts their expensive purchases on FB, Instagram, forums like this… whatever. If your BFF posts a picture of her next to her new Mercedes 250, you better make sure you top her with a 350 next month! It's a whole new form of competition. Our generation also LOVES to spend money on things that we can see. A vehicle is the best "sight" purchase, since you go with it everywhere, and everyone sees you with it. My ex's dad lived in a small apartment in a not-so-good side of town, but spent his money on a new BMW. His reasoning was, "people see my BMW, no one sees where I live." I currently live in a condo/apartment building with my family, and many of the neighbors drive luxury cars. One guy has a new BMW every year. He trades it in, and gets a higher model.. or passes the older one to another family member. This competition for the "best stuff" has gotten so bad that people even splurge on their CHILDREN. I see the HS kids driving cars better than the one I have. Sorry for the total tangent, haha, we went from talking about education to splurge spending.

that is so true with many Asians. they drive expensive cars but live in the ghetto area...

 

[ame]

For those of you that LOVE learning, ie. AME, have you checked out khan academy? And MIT? They offer free online courses. You don't get credits for them, but if you love learning for the sake of learning, it's a good idea since you can move at your own pace, and you don't pay anything.]

They were just talking about the MIT thing on NPR maybe a week ago while we were driving to the airport, and DH was telling me I really should do that. I will definitely go check that and Khan Academy out. I made a note in my phone to do the MIT thing but never had heard of Khan so I will have to do that on a slow work day. My parents don't really "get" me with this learning business. They think of getting educated as a means to a career. I don't honestly believe that most people will have *A* career anymore. I think it's not long term like it used to be. So having multiple options is always good, though finishing more than one is probably also a good thing.

 

[iheartscience]

Octavia-are you at all interested in bioethics? I work in the bioethics/regulatory affairs field, and there are a decent number of JDs. If you're interested in research/medicine it could be a good fit. Most have a JD as well as a master of bioethics.

To the original topic, I have a BS in psych and am halfway through my master of bioethics.

Thing2, that's actually a very interesting suggestion. I work in administrative law, so I deal with regulations every day and I'm one of those wierdos who actually likes them. I'd love to be doing regulatory affairs in the environmental field, but jobs can be really hard to get -- I imagine there a few more jobs in the bioethics field, though, especially in areas with large research/teaching hospitals? I will certainly keep this in mind and look into it some more!

Slight tangent, but I often listen to NPR at work and lately they've been doing a series on the free online universities. I checked out Coursera and it seems like they have some pretty interesting classes, so I'm going to give one a try! It could be a great way to learn something new for a few hours a week, from the comfort of my living room. Has anyone else done this? If so, how did it go?

Ha me too! Apparently I like rules? And you're exactly right-any large research hospital/university will have a regulatory affairs office, and there are some private institutional review boards as well. There's one that I know of off the top of my head in Seattle: http://www.quorumreview.com/ The private IRBs typically deal with industry sponsored research, because not all universities review sponsored research in house. Another route is a master's in regulatory science. Depending on the program, the reg. science degrees can skew towards someone working in the pharmaceutical industry.

I took a Coursera class this summer and really liked it. It was in pharmacokinetics and pharmacodynamics. I'd like to beef up my scientific/medical knowledge further, so once I finish my master's in bioethics I'll definitely take more of them.

 

[mrs taylor]

BA in English, BFA in Dance, diplomate in Dance, and I'm heading back for a Masters in Divinity.

 

[AGBF]

Another route is a master's in regulatory science. Depending on the program, the reg. science degrees can skew towards someone working in the pharmaceutical industry.

This may be far afield, but my great-nephew works for one of the huge pharmaceutical companies. His undergraduate degree is in biotechnology. He had been accepted into a Ph.D program in biology but didn't get any money with it so he, instead, took the full-time job with the pharmaceutical company, which paid for an attorney to help him with his immigration status and also paid for his tuition towards a master's degree. (He figured he could get any education he wanted...slowly.) The master's which he is now completing is in something that doesn't sound very scientific...but he says that it is. It is in web design and technically he is a software engineer. However, throughout the degree, he took classes not only in computer design and math but in science. He said that in theory he could do web design for any corporation, but that now in companies like his the scientists need people like him to communicate through computers because they cannot do it and regular people without scientific knowledge cannot communicate with the scientists. So now he is being sponsored for a green card by the pharmaceutical company. He loves his job.

AGBF

 

[Tuckins1]

I have my Bachelor's, and am currently working on a Masters in Reading and Literacy. I am also applying to the grad program for school counseling.... Hopefully I get accepted!

 

[rubybeth]

Rubybeth, I don't know if you remember, but you and I have talked about library science degrees before. If I was going to go for another degree, that would probably be the one. The only negative (as far as I can tell) is finding a job afterwards. I'm an elementary teacher and it seems as though many technology teachers' and school librarians' (library/media specialists) jobs are being combined into one position. Is that the trend you're seeing, too?

The bolded part is the big problem. My program was very interesting and I learned some things, but I also had 7+ years experience in a public library when I started school, so a lot of it was not new information to me. And, in my current administrative role, I use very little of what I learned in graduate school. Most of my time is spent writing e-mails or other communication, grant writing, using Excel for various budgets, and using the skills I learned prior to getting promoted (knowing how to check out, do a reference interview, etc.). I did learn some 'theory' and I do feel I have a broad understanding of libraries, but there are other ways to learn these things. I feel my time working in a bookstore was some of the best library training I ever got. I probably got my current job based mostly on my experience/work history, and the MLIS was the icing.

Library/media specialist positions are drying up even faster than public library jobs, in my experience. If you are willing to move to a different state to take a job, and possibly make less than you do now (but love the work), then I would say it will likely turn out okay. If you need to stay where you currently live, and job options are limited, you really need to do a cost-benefit analysis of the situation. You might want to look at private school librarian jobs, as well, because they might be more flexible about the qualifications. There are lots of online, inexpensive training options from WebJunction, the American Library Association, the Public Library Association, and the Young Adult Library Services Association.

ETA: Tacori - thanks for your comments about the LMFT vs. MCSW. I will share that with DH.

 

[Haven]

I have my Bachelor's, and am currently working on a Masters in Reading and Literacy. I am also applying to the grad program for school counseling.... Hopefully I get accepted!

Woohoo! Another reading specialist on PS!

Me MEd in reading and literacy was the most rewarding formal academic experience I've ever had. My program was a perfect blend of linguistics, education, and cognitive science. And it allowed me to get my dream job. I hope you have a similar experience!

 

[Demelza]

Thanks MC

Ruby, I will have my MA in clinical mental health counseling with a certificate in substance abuse counseling. Between those two degrees, MCSW or LMFT, I would pick LMFT. Social work is a much different field than counseling. More case management. If that's what he is interested in than great. If he likes the clinical side, I think the LMFT would be a better fit.

This is a very common misconception about the field of social work. Most social work programs allow you to pick an area of specialty, clinical practice being one of them. An LCSW is just as qualified to do clinical work as an LMFT. There are many, many clinical social workers providing services in clinical settings as well as in private practice. An MSW is a very versatile degree and offers great flexibility in the job market. It's also an older and more established degree so it is recognized both nationally and internationally.

 

[AGBF]

My DH is thinking about going back to do a master's degree in clinical social work or marriage & family therapy (either MCSW or LMFT) which I am kind of dreading, though he has been a youth counselor for four years in residential treatment so he knows what he's getting into. Those with counseling degrees, Lil Misfit, Tacori, etc., I am curious--so many job listings have multiple qualifications listed, does it really matter which degree you have? He could do either program locally (we live about 10 blocks from a university) but it seems that MCSW is more credits so takes longer, requires full-time attendance and he wouldn't be able to work even part time because of the clinical hours required, while LMFT is a shorter program, can be done part-time since they limit classes to two or three days per week, and far fewer clinical hours.

rubybeth-

I came back looking for your original posting about your husband's interests since I had only seen Tacori's resonse to you and didn't know what you had originally asked. Now that I know, I would like to add my two cents. As a social worker, I have a slightly different take on the matter from Tacori.

I certainly disagree that the training for a social worker focuses on case management. In fact, there is not a single class on case management required by the body that accredits schools of social work in the United States.

As far as I know, there is also no such degree as as an MCSW. Almost all schools of social work have now changed over to the "MSW", the Master of Social Work, although there may still be some that offer a "Master of Social Service" which I believe was offered by the Fordham University Graduate School of Social Work until 30 years ago or so or an MS in social work, which is what my father earned from the Columbia University School of Social Work back in 1948. The requirements for the master's degree in social work are uniform and are not peculiar to a social worker who majors in clinical work, group work, or research. Again: this is overseen by the CSWE, the Council on Social Work Education, which has uniform requirements for all accredited schools of social work.

The social work degree is a grind to earn and not "sexy". Many people who do not know how many doors it opens sign up for masters degrees in psychology or counseling (not that you suggested that, Tacori), thinking that they sound more interesting. One of my best friends started a degree in counseling, only to have to switch to an MSW in order to have a practical degree. She spent some time and money she did not not need to on counseling courses, although I like to think that education is never wasted!

The part of the MSW training that used to be most valuable, although its full two year length is now too often waived, is the mandatory 21 hour supervised work week a student had to do each school year for two years. It provides a great, pragmatic internship for the social work student, ideally under the tutelage of an insightful and seasoned social worker. As the student does interviews, he writes "process recordings" of each interview for his field instructor to read. Each process recording should contain what the student said; what he was thinking as he said it; what the client replied; and what the student believed the client to be thinking when the client made that reply. The entire interview is recorded . Then the field instructor can go over it, make notes, and discuss it with his student. The student can gain insight into how to interview a client through this method.

While the social work student is doing two internships over two years he is taking courses on the history of social work; on race relations; on how governmental institutions work; on sociology; on research methods; and on on psycholology. Electives available for social workers who want to do clinical work are plentiful and one can get thorough training in every aspect of psychopathology.

My first year's placement-like that of many first year students-was in a hospital setting. It was not psychiatric. I was on the pediatric floor of the Hosital of the Albert Einstein School of Medicine and on the Pediatric Outpatient Dialysis Unit. That kind of general, medical setting prepares a student for working with people. The next year is almost always in a mental health setting acting as a psychothrapist, however. I was placed in a child guidance center, where I sw children for play therapy, adolescents for talk therapy, and parents for counseling. I had few cases and was closely supervised; after all, I was a student! And I ws doing a process recording for every interview I did with every client! But the degree was certainly clinical. It was not about case management.

I am proud to be a social woker because we have been around since the 1920's working in mental health clinics and accepted as mental health professionals since then. We do, however, care about more than psychotherapy. When a client comes in to see me and he is ill and about to be evicted, I don't just sit down and do therapy with him. Even if my agency wants me to make sure I bill him for the hour and get the insurance money. If my agency won't pay me for the time it takes to deal with the eviction and the illness, you'll find me working overtime without pay. Because social workers do deal with the whole person and all of his problems...not just the 50-minute hour! (As you may have guessed, I am not speaking in general here. This kind of thing happens. Unfortunately. Because social service agencies don't have enough money to pay social workers unless they are getting reimbursed by insurance companies.)

If that was more that two cents, sue me!

Deb

 

[AGBF]

This is a very common misconception about the field of social work. Most social work programs allow you to pick an area of specialty, clinical practice being one of them. An LCSW is just as qualified to do clinical work as an LMFT. There are many, many clinical social workers providing services in clinical settings as well as in private practice. An MSW is a very versatile degree and offers great flexibility in the job market. It's also an older and more established degree so it is recognized both nationally and internationally.

Hi there, Demelza! Long time, no see. I guess we were posting at the same time. You were quite pithy. I could have saved myself some breath!

Deb

 

[princesss]

I totally forgot to post what my degree is in! I have a BA in English and Anthropology, and am applying for Masters programs in creative writing and/or publishing studies.

 

[Echidna]

Slight tangent, but I often listen to NPR at work and lately they've been doing a series on the free online universities. I checked out Coursera and it seems like they have some pretty interesting classes, so I'm going to give one a try! It could be a great way to learn something new for a few hours a week, from the comfort of my living room. Has anyone else done this? If so, how did it go?

Octavia, I enrolled in a Coursera course from Aug-Oct. It was interesting, but the time commitment was too great on top of my other commitments (I'm a postdoctoral fellow studying a Grad Cert in Higher Education and a Masters in Arts [Writing, Editing and Publishing]). If you weren't doing other study, it's fun to follow along. I'm currently enrolled in a critical thinking and argumentation course, but so are two of my colleagues, so we're going to plan study catch-ups for motivation. There is provision for this to happen online anyway, but doing it with people I know should be fun!

For completeness, I have:

BA (English)
PhD (Business)
Grad Cert in Research Commercialisation

Grad Cert in Higher Education (in progress)
MA (Writing, Editing and Publishing)(in progress- this is heaps of fun!)

My parents are tired of coming to graduation ceremonies

 

[zoebartlett]

We have some wicked smart PSers.

I love learning about people's job, why they chose the field they're in and what their specific work is.

Rubybeth, thanks so much giving me more detail about library sciences. It's definitely an interesting field. I've always loved reading, doing research, and encouraging a love for those things in others.

 

[Sakuracherry]

I have an AA in Liberal Arts and am finishing a BA in Pre-Law (yes, this major does exist). I am very thankful that I get to be in school and studying, but some part of me still bothers that I listened to advice from people around me and gave up my dream to be a photojournalist. I received a half scholarship offer from a great art school in the city, but nobody pushed my back to pursue my dream. I've been working at restaurants for a few years and paying for my own living expenses and tuitions. Maybe I shouldn't have listened to others since I'm spending my own money. Most likely I'll be applying for law school next year. Hopefully at least I'll get to study human rights and labor laws and contribute to society.

I've been working part-time at an upscale restaurant as a waitress and I do enjoy it, but I am hoping to quit in two years. My legs and wrists hurt. It is exhausting to go to class at 8am after a long work night. Some of my co-workers are career waiters and making 6-figure salaries. It is hard to believe, but in a big city like NYC, it's possible to make a lot of money working sales/food service jobs without a degree.

As my mother taught me, I have respect for every single person who works. She kept telling me any job is important in the world.

 

[FrekeChild]

For you teachers, I had no idea adjunct faculty make peanuts! I feel so badly. My favorites are adjunct faculty. What makes a person a tenure? # of years served? Or just an opening for a FT position?

Adjunct faculty are part-time instructors, whereas tenured or tenure-track faculty are FT professors. In community colleges, at least, it is very easy to get a position as an adjunct instructor, whereas FT positions are extremely rare and highly competitive.

At the university level tenure track means that you have to have an active research agenda and be pursuing it.

While what Haven says about community college instructors being generally more teaching driven, it really depends more on the school system and their requirements.

My husband is a tenure track faculty member at a state school, and while he is interested in pursuing a very active research agenda, the requirements of the school conflict with that- its more of a teaching based school.

So what this means is:
Higher teaching load=less published research required for tenure
Lower teaching load=more published research required for tenure

Tenure=after 6+/- years of service plus teaching, plus research, you are given tenure, which means that you no longer have rigorous research requirements to adhere to, to keep your job.

However, this does not mean you have reached the top by any means, it just means you can't get fired for under performance. Should you continue pursuing research, you get new titles- associate professor, full professor, etc. those mean raises and other opened opportunities (administrative stuff).

This is a basic explanation, there are many more requirements for tenure at the university level- service, presentations, conference appearances, everything else that goes into teaching- holding office hours, etc.

 

[dani13]

BSN (Nursing)
MSN- I am a Women's Health NP.

 

[rubybeth]

Thanks MC

Ruby, I will have my MA in clinical mental health counseling with a certificate in substance abuse counseling. Between those two degrees, MCSW or LMFT, I would pick LMFT. Social work is a much different field than counseling. More case management. If that's what he is interested in than great. If he likes the clinical side, I think the LMFT would be a better fit.

This is a very common misconception about the field of social work. Most social work programs allow you to pick an area of specialty, clinical practice being one of them. An LCSW is just as qualified to do clinical work as an LMFT. There are many, many clinical social workers providing services in clinical settings as well as in private practice. An MSW is a very versatile degree and offers great flexibility in the job market. It's also an older and more established degree so it is recognized both nationally and internationally.

Demelza and ABGF, thank you for your comments. I will share them with DH. Some background is that right now, he nearly 31, working as a youth counselor in a residential treatment home in the unit specifically for teenage girls. I don't think he gets paid nearly enough for what he does, but he loves the work, as stressful as it is, and my career makes it possible for him to do that. He has always talked about getting a master's degree, and I think he may have found his 'calling' with counseling.

My concern with a Masters in Clinical Social Work (maybe that's not an MCSW, sorry, still learning the terminology!) or MSW is that it's a longer program which requires a clinical placement each semester, which I am familiar with because my sister did the same thing in grad school for Speech Language Pathology. She could not have held a job while in grad school, no way. While we would be 'okay' on just my income, I look at it from a cost perspective. If DH could work even 20 hours a week, making half of what he makes now, and do a 2 year LMFT program with maybe one semester of clinical work (I think it's 1,000 hours), with tuition and lost income, the degree would 'cost' us about $60k. The MCSW would be more like $100k in lost income and tuition, etc., which just doesn't make sense to me in economic terms. I am willing to be convinced it's a 'better' degree to have, with more possibility for higher paying work, but with the job postings I get for our region, that doesn't seem to be the case. He could get the same job with either a MSW or an LMFT degree. He already has nearly 4 years experience working in this setting, and a few more years experience in AmeriCorps and some work in schools. Why not go for the cheaper degree?

 

[AGBF]

Why not go for the cheaper degree?

In my opinion, at the masters degree level, the MSW is the best degree available for someone who wants to enter the mental health field unless s/he is a psychiatric nurse. It is certainly worth every dollar it costs. Why do you think it takes more time and costs more than the marriage and family counseling degree? It is very, very intense. I have always compared it to nursing school. Even when nurses did not have to get a bachelor's degree-when they could get an AA and still become RNs-the days they put in were lengthy and strenuous. The same is true for MSWs. But those long days of interning are worth it if you want to be well trained.

I got my MSW at a similar age to your husband's. I had already gotten an MA in history and been a doctoral candidate in history. I had taught high school history at an independent girls school and been the sophomore class adviser. I found myself passing out kleenex to crying high school girls in my office and decided to return to school for an MSW. I was 30 when I started work on the MSW and had to give up my income to return to school full-time.

As Demelza said, the MSW has been around for a long time and is well respected. Social workers can find employment as mental health workers anywhere. Marriage and family counselors cannot. There are many agencies that do not hire them as psychotherapists, although that appears to be changing. It has not changed nearly as much in the East as it has in California. I do not know if it will.

The other masters level mental health professional with a lot of expertise is, as I mentioned above, the psychiatric nurse. Although they do not often work as psychotherapists in clinics, they are sought after to lead groups and to dispense medications and to do intakes at psychiatric hospitals and partial hospital programs. Everyone wants to hire psychiatric nurses!

AGBF

 

[Haven]

For you teachers, I had no idea adjunct faculty make peanuts! I feel so badly. My favorites are adjunct faculty. What makes a person a tenure? # of years served? Or just an opening for a FT position?

Adjunct faculty are part-time instructors, whereas tenured or tenure-track faculty are FT professors. In community colleges, at least, it is very easy to get a position as an adjunct instructor, whereas FT positions are extremely rare and highly competitive.

At the university level tenure track means that you have to have an active research agenda and be pursuing it.

While what Haven says about community college instructors being generally more teaching driven, it really depends more on the school system and their requirements.

My husband is a tenure track faculty member at a state school, and while he is interested in pursuing a very active research agenda, the requirements of the school conflict with that- its more of a teaching based school.

So what this means is:
Higher teaching load=less published research required for tenure
Lower teaching load=more published research required for tenure

Tenure=after 6+/- years of service plus teaching, plus research, you are given tenure, which means that you no longer have rigorous research requirements to adhere to, to keep your job.

However, this does not mean you have reached the top by any means, it just means you can't get fired for under performance. Should you continue pursuing research, you get new titles- associate professor, full professor, etc. those mean raises and other opened opportunities (administrative stuff).

This is a basic explanation, there are many more requirements for tenure at the university level- service, presentations, conference appearances, everything else that goes into teaching- holding office hours, etc.

Please don't misunderstand--I was not speaking to the requirements for earning tenure in my reply, I was simply sharing that adjuncts are part-time instructors while tenured or tenure-track professors are full-time. (At least, this is how it works in my college and every college in which I've ever taught, community college and university level.)

Earning tenure at a community college is not as easy as simply teaching your standard load every semester. I hope I didn't give that impression.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi Haven,

I always thought that titles were bestowed by the school,(earned) ie; associate professor, and professor. You have referred to yourself as a professor. I didn't know Community Colleges offer this title to their instructors.


AQnnette

 

[FrekeChild]

For you teachers, I had no idea adjunct faculty make peanuts! I feel so badly. My favorites are adjunct faculty. What makes a person a tenure? # of years served? Or just an opening for a FT position?

Adjunct faculty are part-time instructors, whereas tenured or tenure-track faculty are FT professors. In community colleges, at least, it is very easy to get a position as an adjunct instructor, whereas FT positions are extremely rare and highly competitive.

At the university level tenure track means that you have to have an active research agenda and be pursuing it.

While what Haven says about community college instructors being generally more teaching driven, it really depends more on the school system and their requirements.

My husband is a tenure track faculty member at a state school, and while he is interested in pursuing a very active research agenda, the requirements of the school conflict with that- its more of a teaching based school.

So what this means is:
Higher teaching load=less published research required for tenure
Lower teaching load=more published research required for tenure

Tenure=after 6+/- years of service plus teaching, plus research, you are given tenure, which means that you no longer have rigorous research requirements to adhere to, to keep your job.

However, this does not mean you have reached the top by any means, it just means you can't get fired for under performance. Should you continue pursuing research, you get new titles- associate professor, full professor, etc. those mean raises and other opened opportunities (administrative stuff).

This is a basic explanation, there are many more requirements for tenure at the university level- service, presentations, conference appearances, everything else that goes into teaching- holding office hours, etc.

Please don't misunderstand--I was not speaking to the requirements for earning tenure in my reply, I was simply sharing that adjuncts are part-time instructors while tenured or tenure-track professors are full-time. (At least, this is how it works in my college and every college in which I've ever taught, community college and university level.)

Earning tenure at a community college is not as easy as simply teaching your standard load every semester. I hope I didn't give that impression.

I was just further elaborating on what you had said, in response to madelise's questions. Plus you were speaking more about the community college level, and no one else had brought up what tenure is/means at the university level, since that was basically what her question was.

I meant to also say that community colleges are generally almost exclusively teaching based.

In reference to my post above, my husband will likely be pursuing early tenure (4-5 years) if he stays with his current university, as it is his very first term, and he has already basically completed his research/publishing requirements. But the research/publishing requirements here are very easy, as the emphasis here is on teaching.

My response is garbled as it was somewhere between 4-5am and a little person was busy not sleeping, which meant I was not sleeping! I'm not even sure my response makes sense...

To partially respond Smitcompton's question, according to wiki (the best academic source EVAR!):

"In the United States and Canada the title of professor is granted to most scholars with Doctorate degrees (typically Ph.D.s) who teach in two- and four-year colleges and universities, and is used in the titles assistant professor and associate professor, which are not considered professor-level positions elsewhere, as well as for full professors."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Professor

I was also under the impression that people who teach at community colleges are referred to as instructors, because *only* a masters degree is required to teach at that level. I don't really understand it all though, because my husband has never taught at the community college level. I hope Haven can explain!

 

[rubybeth]

Why not go for the cheaper degree?

In my opinion, at the masters degree level, the MSW is the best degree available for someone who wants to enter the mental health field unless s/he is a psychiatric nurse. It is certainly worth every dollar it costs. Why do you think it takes more time and costs more than the marriage and family counseling degree?

Because I have compared the credit load and amount of clinical hours required for each program, and the MSW program is more credits and more hours, and he would not be able to work even part-time while doing the degree. It would likely be over 2 years of not working, which means not only lost income, but lost 401(k) match, no benefits, etc. and we'd be living on a tight budget with just my income. If he could work part-time, we could pay his way through school without loans, plus all that other good stuff.

 

[Haven]

Hi Haven,

I always thought that titles were bestowed by the school,(earned) ie; associate professor, and professor. You have referred to yourself as a professor. I didn't know Community Colleges offer this title to their instructors.
AQnnette

I can't speak for all community colleges, but my current employer uses the titles of: Lecturer, Instructor, Assistant Professor, Associate Professor, and Professor. We use a formula to place new faculty in their initial position, and then we have a system that dictates when and how faculty promotions in title occur. For example, one must hold the title of Asst. Professor for three years before being considered for a promotion in title, at which point someone (I'm sure there's a committee for this) determines whether eligible faculty have accrued enough professional advancement credits to move up in title. It is not an automatic promotion every X years, it must be earned.

Title and pay are independent, so we move up and over on the salary schedule regardless of our title.

Adjuncts are only referred to as lecturers or instructors. The information above only applies to FT faculty.

I have taught in several community colleges and two universities. Some other CCs use the same system as my current employer, while others refer to all of their FT faculty as instructors, and adjuncts as lecturers.

Most of my colleagues hold PhDs. I am the rare exception here as a FT faculty member with only a couple master's degrees. But yes, my college hired me as an Assistant Professor of English based on my professional record. I don't use the title with my students, they call me Lori or Mrs. Mylastname, whatever makes them most comfortable.

ETA: Interestingly, many applicants for our FT faculty positions (at least in my department) are currently teaching at the university level. We prefer to hire people with CC teaching experience, but it's a surprising reality I never knew about that so many university faculty are trying to obtain CC positions. I love my job more than I ever thought I could love a job, but I wouldn't recommend it to anyone because the FT position prospects are so utterly bleak.

 

[AGBF]

Why not go for the cheaper degree?

In my opinion, at the masters degree level, the MSW is the best degree available for someone who wants to enter the mental health field unless s/he is a psychiatric nurse. It is certainly worth every dollar it costs. Why do you think it takes more time and costs more than the marriage and family counseling degree?

Because I have compared the credit load and amount of clinical hours required for each program, and the MSW program is more credits and more hours, and he would not be able to work even part-time while doing the degree. It would likely be over 2 years of not working, which means not only lost income, but lost 401(k) match, no benefits, etc. and we'd be living on a tight budget with just my income. If he could work part-time, we could pay his way through school without loans, plus all that other good stuff.

My question was meant to be rhetorical, which was was rude. I apologize for my cavalier tone. I was trying to make the point that social workers spend far more time in training than do marriage and family therapists, which is why it costs more to educate them. That is also why it is easier for them to find jobs. They are a far more accepted, mainstream profession and have been around for almost a century longer than marriage and family therapists. In my opinion, you get what you pay for. When it was my best friend who was at the crossroads, I urged her to drop the masters in counseling she had been advised to pursue and go with an MSW. She has never regretted it and has had an excellent career even though when she was in school her husband was a laborer in the construction industry and she had to redo several classes.

AGBF