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Ebay-How do you do it??

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Noahsmom

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How is it you all find such amazing things on ebay? Is there something I''m not typing into the search engine? I''m so jealous of all your finds!! Please clue me in here, I would love to know!
 

coatimundi_org

Ideal_Rock
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Dec 9, 2007
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Time...lots and lots of time searching--till I find something cool.
 

luvmyhalo

Brilliant_Rock
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Dec 4, 2007
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Ditto! It always takes me FOR-EVER to find something worth while on ebay. But if you can find a deal, it is sooooo worth it!!!
 

asforhim

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
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Agree...

But more important than time is TIMING!

You can find great stuff on Ebay, but it goes fast. You need to check everyday. When you find it, hound the seller to sell it to you!!

Recently, a very nice Harry Winston piece went for a steal. It sold in such short order that you wouldn''t even know about it if you didn''t search for such a thing on a daily basis.
 

TravelingGal

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Luck.

I had been searching on and off for a platinum band. I''d type in "platinum band 5" and there weren''t gobs and gobs of listings, which was nice. Since I know I didn''t want white gold, it was easy to narrow it down. I''ve also looked up "art deco platinum" and if I find vendors who I think look interesting, I save them and search their items. There''s less platinum on ebay than white gold.

In the case of the band I bought, I would have never run into it had I not been searching for a floral band for another Pricescoper. It''s a size 6, so it would not have come up on my search. Honestly, I typed in so many things to try and find interesting floral bands, that I have no idea how that ring came up. And as I said, it was sitting there with zero (and then one) bids for DAYS. When the auction was ending, I was the only one to actively bid on it. The other bidder had entered her high bid and did not come back to ensure winning it.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Time, patience, toolhaus.org (the feedback website), knowing all the seedy dirty tricks that sellers throw at you, and a little luck.
emwink.gif


I''ve been at ebay for over ten years, so you tend to learn a lot in that time as well. For the novice to ebay, it can be like walking into a den of lions.
 

TravelingGal

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Date: 3/2/2009 12:57:12 AM
Author: tourmaline_lover
Time, patience, toolhaus.org (the feedback website), knowing all the seedy dirty tricks that sellers throw at you, and a little luck.
emwink.gif


I''ve been at ebay for over ten years, so you tend to learn a lot in that time as well. For the novice to ebay, it can be like walking into a den of lions.
I agree.

Common sense helps too, I suppose. But common sense usually tells me that if something seems to good to be true, it probably is...until it actually happens!

Maybe common sense mixed with gut feeling?
 

LGK

Ideal_Rock
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Patience- you can't find deals if you aren't spending time weeding through various search terms- and luck. And willingness to take a risk. You're never sure how you did until you open the package, you know? Especially with pricey jewelry, you know you're taking a calculated risk. It's very easy to talk yourself out of something, because you just never know for certain til you see it in person.

I never would have ended up with my 3.55ct OEC ring if I hadn't stumbled onto it on ebay for a nutty price. I hadn't seriously priced many OECs in that size when I found it, so though I did some quick research, I still didn't really realize just how good a deal it was until much later... especially because the setting was included, and though I don't love the setting, it definitely is well made and wouldn't have been cheap all by itself.

And of course, you only occasionally find the crazy good deals. I would say of the hundreds of things I've bought on ebay- deco art glass, antique sterling, antique watches, diamonds etc- that there are only two I feel like were once in a lifetime finds, because of the rarity of the item and the price. (The OEC and a truly unique piece of Art Nouveau sterling.)
 

hoofbeats95

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I tend to think that the searching (what terms you use) are key. I suck at it. And I haven''t found anything. But if you won''t find it if it doesn''t come back in the search. So I''ve always wondered what terms people are using. Cause if my terms aren''t specific enough I get way toooooo much crap back. I figure people on here are lucky.
 

Hudson_Hawk

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I stay up late at night or really early in the morning and look. A lot of people post new things late at night and there aren''t a ton on early in the morning. Most of the auctions I''ve been really intently bidding on have ended at odd hours. I know that you can use auto bid thingys, but I don''t like them. I think the bidding is part of the thrill of the chase. I don''t have a ton of luck on ebay, but I also have a hard time committing to things so I don''t always bid.
 

Cathers

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Date: 3/1/2009 5:35:06 PM
Author:Noahsmom
How is it you all find such amazing things on ebay? Is there something I'm not typing into the search engine? I'm so jealous of all your finds!! Please clue me in here, I would love to know!
I know!!! I have searched too, and not really come up with anything, and since Patience, is NOT my middle name, I find nothing!
29.gif
I just asked that very question in another thread a few days ago!!! ahhh one day perhaps?
2.gif
I would love a vintage platinum band...

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-wear-a-horseshoe-pendant.107269/
 

Loves Vintage

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
4,568
Date: 3/2/2009 3:25:52 PM
Author: Çã†hër§

Date: 3/1/2009 5:35:06 PM
Author:Noahsmom
How is it you all find such amazing things on ebay? Is there something I''m not typing into the search engine? I''m so jealous of all your finds!! Please clue me in here, I would love to know!
I know!!! I have searched too, and not really come up with anything, and since Patience, is NOT my middle name, I find nothing!
29.gif
I just asked that very question in another thread a few days ago!!! ahhh one day perhaps?
2.gif
I would love a vintage platinum band...

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-wear-a-horseshoe-pendant.107269/
Çã†hër§,

What kind of band are you looking for exactly? Engraved? With diamonds or without? You mentioned platnium. What size?
 

Cathers

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
402
Date: 3/2/2009 3:50:46 PM
Author: Loves Vintage

Date: 3/2/2009 3:25:52 PM
Author: Çã†hër§


Date: 3/1/2009 5:35:06 PM
Author:Noahsmom
How is it you all find such amazing things on ebay? Is there something I''m not typing into the search engine? I''m so jealous of all your finds!! Please clue me in here, I would love to know!
I know!!! I have searched too, and not really come up with anything, and since Patience, is NOT my middle name, I find nothing!
29.gif
I just asked that very question in another thread a few days ago!!! ahhh one day perhaps?
2.gif
I would love a vintage platinum band...

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-wear-a-horseshoe-pendant.107269/
Çã†hër§,

What kind of band are you looking for exactly? Engraved? With diamonds or without? You mentioned platnium. What size?
whoa! I just went to put the baby down for her nap(late, I was reading this forum
6.gif
) and saw your response:) thanks

Honestly, I am not sure exactly what I want, but engraved and with diamonds sounds good :) either or, I am not fussy, I wear a size 7.
 

TravelingGal

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Messages
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Date: 3/2/2009 3:57:04 PM
Author: Çã†hër§

Date: 3/2/2009 3:50:46 PM
Author: Loves Vintage


Date: 3/2/2009 3:25:52 PM
Author: Çã†hër§



Date: 3/1/2009 5:35:06 PM
Author:Noahsmom
How is it you all find such amazing things on ebay? Is there something I''m not typing into the search engine? I''m so jealous of all your finds!! Please clue me in here, I would love to know!
I know!!! I have searched too, and not really come up with anything, and since Patience, is NOT my middle name, I find nothing!
29.gif
I just asked that very question in another thread a few days ago!!! ahhh one day perhaps?
2.gif
I would love a vintage platinum band...

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-wear-a-horseshoe-pendant.107269/
Çã†hër§,

What kind of band are you looking for exactly? Engraved? With diamonds or without? You mentioned platnium. What size?
whoa! I just went to put the baby down for her nap(late, I was reading this forum
6.gif
) and saw your response:) thanks

Honestly, I am not sure exactly what I want, but engraved and with diamonds sounds good :) either or, I am not fussy, I wear a size 7.
Not cheap, but they are taking offers..


http://cgi.ebay.com/Platinum-2ct-Diamond-Etched-Eternity-Ring-7-63gr_W0QQitemZ360121819061QQihZ023QQcategoryZ164342QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
 

Cathers

Shiny_Rock
Joined
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Messages
402
Date: 3/2/2009 4:00:14 PM
Author: TravelingGal



Date: 3/2/2009 3:57:04 PM
Author: Çã†hër§




Date: 3/2/2009 3:50:46 PM
Author: Loves Vintage





Date: 3/2/2009 3:25:52 PM
Author: Çã†hër§






Date: 3/1/2009 5:35:06 PM
Author:Noahsmom
How is it you all find such amazing things on ebay? Is there something I'm not typing into the search engine? I'm so jealous of all your finds!! Please clue me in here, I would love to know!
I know!!! I have searched too, and not really come up with anything, and since Patience, is NOT my middle name, I find nothing!
29.gif
I just asked that very question in another thread a few days ago!!! ahhh one day perhaps?
2.gif
I would love a vintage platinum band...

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-wear-a-horseshoe-pendant.107269/
Çã†hër§,

What kind of band are you looking for exactly? Engraved? With diamonds or without? You mentioned platnium. What size?
whoa! I just went to put the baby down for her nap(late, I was reading this forum
6.gif
) and saw your response:) thanks

Honestly, I am not sure exactly what I want, but engraved and with diamonds sounds good :) either or, I am not fussy, I wear a size 7.
Not cheap, but they are taking offers..


http://cgi.ebay.com/Platinum-2ct-Diamond-Etched-Eternity-Ring-7-63gr_W0QQitemZ360121819061QQihZ023QQcategoryZ164342QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
thank you very much TG! I was thinking something like more engraving, than diamonds...hard to explain what I mean exactly. I will do a search, on here, and see if I can find something like I want...a poster a while ago found one on ebay(yellow gold, and diamonds...reminded me of VC or almost Black hills gold style)bbs!

eta: found the band I was thinking of!

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/antique-art-carved-wedding-band.98563/

no diamonds in it, but I do really like that style of band. My ER is very plain bezel , and would like wb to be a bit dressier..do you know what I mean? I have heard that you cannot wear white gold with Platinum, but am not sure what the actual facts are. I would prefer to stick to platinum, only because I wouldn't want to keep getting my wb re-dipped.

~Cathy
 

TravelingGal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
17,193
Date: 3/2/2009 4:04:42 PM
Author: Çã†hër§

Date: 3/2/2009 4:00:14 PM
Author: TravelingGal



Date: 3/2/2009 3:57:04 PM
Author: Çã†hër§




Date: 3/2/2009 3:50:46 PM
Author: Loves Vintage





Date: 3/2/2009 3:25:52 PM
Author: Çã†hër§






Date: 3/1/2009 5:35:06 PM
Author:Noahsmom
How is it you all find such amazing things on ebay? Is there something I''m not typing into the search engine? I''m so jealous of all your finds!! Please clue me in here, I would love to know!
I know!!! I have searched too, and not really come up with anything, and since Patience, is NOT my middle name, I find nothing!
29.gif
I just asked that very question in another thread a few days ago!!! ahhh one day perhaps?
2.gif
I would love a vintage platinum band...

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/how-do-you-wear-a-horseshoe-pendant.107269/
Çã†hër§,

What kind of band are you looking for exactly? Engraved? With diamonds or without? You mentioned platnium. What size?
whoa! I just went to put the baby down for her nap(late, I was reading this forum
6.gif
) and saw your response:) thanks

Honestly, I am not sure exactly what I want, but engraved and with diamonds sounds good :) either or, I am not fussy, I wear a size 7.
Not cheap, but they are taking offers..


http://cgi.ebay.com/Platinum-2ct-Diamond-Etched-Eternity-Ring-7-63gr_W0QQitemZ360121819061QQihZ023QQcategoryZ164342QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
thank you very much TG! I was thinking something like more engraving, than diamonds...hard to explain what I mean exactly. I will do a search, on here, and see if I can find something like I want...a poster a while ago found one on ebay(yellow gold, and diamonds...reminded me of VC or almost Black hills gold style)bbs!
Oh got it...I have an idea of what you are looking for. That was what I was looking for (because I am so spoiled by excellent cut diamonds, I didn''t want to buy anything with diamonds on ebay for fear they would be crud). So what I wanted was a band with some floral engraving but wasn''t compelled to look until I started doing searches for the other pricescoper....
 

TravelingGal

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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TravelingGal

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Messages
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Yup, I see the link you posted. That''s AJ''s awesome artcarved ring.

The one I posted was pretty, but it''s hard to find vintage with engraving that isn''t worn down....

Still for 111 bucks, I was kind of bummed I didn''t bid on it!!!
 

TravelingGal

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 29, 2004
Messages
17,193
And speaking of ebay finds....

What do you think is better...posting the finds here before the bid is over, or letting it run its course? I know that some people have posted their "finds" once they decided they don''t want it, but it runs the risk of ruining it for someone else who is hoping to win and have the item go unnoticed?

Or, should we share?
1.gif
 

Po10472

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 2, 2007
Messages
1,443
It''s good to share....................sometimes!

This is a belter - I had to email this guy on Ebay (out of badness
28.gif
) who was selling a 1.5ct pear diamond with an EGL certificate attached.....but it wasn''t the EGL certificate for that particular diamond but another diamond but according to him says is not as good at this one.

So I asked him the colour and clarity of the stone and the dimensions seeing as he''d attached the wrong certificate and this is what he said:

Hello. I do not have a certificate for the diamond that I just got. I can tell you that this diamond looks considerably nicer than the one that I have the certificate for. If you are in the area, you are welcome to come and look at the two of them. Generally speaking, what determines how nice a diamond looks and how much fire it has is the color. Therefore, I would think that the one I am selling has a much better color than the one with the EGL Cert. I guess I could also take the ring to a local jewelery store and get an opinion from them as to the color and clarity. I hope this helps a little. Robert

So I emailed him back and said, ''you''ll find that its the cut of a diamond which determines the fire and not the colour''!!!

Arrrghhhhh and he has 8 bids already and there''s still 3 days to go.
 

Cathers

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
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Cathers

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Date: 3/2/2009 4:14:00 PM
Author: TravelingGal
And speaking of ebay finds....

What do you think is better...posting the finds here before the bid is over, or letting it run its course? I know that some people have posted their ''finds'' once they decided they don''t want it, but it runs the risk of ruining it for someone else who is hoping to win and have the item go unnoticed?

Or, should we share?
1.gif
excellent questions! honestly, if I found something I wanted, I likely wouldn''t say much, on the flip side, if I saw something that I knew someone else was looking for, I would post the link. I think our warrior instinct is to keep good deals to ourselves, until we either decide we don''t want them, or we already bought them..lol, does that make sense? it is funny, because(on a similiar tangent) I like garage saling by myself, but will keep my eyes open for whatever any of my friends are looking for, and they do the same for me.
 

TravelingGal

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Messages
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Date: 3/2/2009 4:29:08 PM
Author: Çã†hër§

Date: 3/2/2009 4:14:00 PM
Author: TravelingGal
And speaking of ebay finds....

What do you think is better...posting the finds here before the bid is over, or letting it run its course? I know that some people have posted their ''finds'' once they decided they don''t want it, but it runs the risk of ruining it for someone else who is hoping to win and have the item go unnoticed?

Or, should we share?
1.gif
excellent questions! honestly, if I found something I wanted, I likely wouldn''t say much, on the flip side, if I saw something that I knew someone else was looking for, I would post the link. I think our warrior instinct is to keep good deals to ourselves, until we either decide we don''t want them, or we already bought them..lol, does that make sense? it is funny, because(on a similiar tangent) I like garage saling by myself, but will keep my eyes open for whatever any of my friends are looking for, and they do the same for me.
Yeah I understand...I just wonder if I''m ruining it for someone else by posting something. I usually don''t bother posting anything unless someone is looking for specifics. If we are really interested in the ebay "find", meaning getting it for a steal, that isn''t mostly likely going to happen if the item is posted here. Even though my ebay find was a size 6 and unsizeable, my guess is that I would have not gotten it for a grand if it was advertised on Pricescope!!
 

Cathers

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Joined
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Messages
402
Date: 3/2/2009 4:31:58 PM
Author: TravelingGal

Date: 3/2/2009 4:29:08 PM
Author: Çã†hër§


Date: 3/2/2009 4:14:00 PM
Author: TravelingGal
And speaking of ebay finds....

What do you think is better...posting the finds here before the bid is over, or letting it run its course? I know that some people have posted their ''finds'' once they decided they don''t want it, but it runs the risk of ruining it for someone else who is hoping to win and have the item go unnoticed?

Or, should we share?
1.gif
excellent questions! honestly, if I found something I wanted, I likely wouldn''t say much, on the flip side, if I saw something that I knew someone else was looking for, I would post the link. I think our warrior instinct is to keep good deals to ourselves, until we either decide we don''t want them, or we already bought them..lol, does that make sense? it is funny, because(on a similiar tangent) I like garage saling by myself, but will keep my eyes open for whatever any of my friends are looking for, and they do the same for me.
Yeah I understand...I just wonder if I''m ruining it for someone else by posting something. I usually don''t bother posting anything unless someone is looking for specifics. If we are really interested in the ebay ''find'', meaning getting it for a steal, that isn''t mostly likely going to happen if the item is posted here. Even though my ebay find was a size 6 and unsizeable, my guess is that I would have not gotten it for a grand if it was advertised on Pricescope!!
excellent post!
 

Loves Vintage

Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
4,568
Date: 3/2/2009 4:25:22 PM
Author: Çã†hër§

Date: 3/2/2009 4:22:35 PM
Author: Loves Vintage
Here''s a 6.5: http://cgi.ebay.com/INTRICATE-VINTAGE-PLATINUM-DIAMONDS-ETERNITY-BAND-RING_W0QQitemZ160098931651QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGemstone_Rings?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Not exactly what you''re after, but still vintage, platinum and pretty.
oh that is lovely!!!!! *swoon* I wonder if I should be typing more to lose weight in my fingers?? hehe

thanks so much LV I am going to watch this auction.
Here''s another one. Also, not what you''re after, but vintage, platinum and 7.25! And, a deal: http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Platinum-Diamond-Wedding-Band-1920s_W0QQitemZ270348233982QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Wedding_Bands_with_Diamonds_Gemstones?hash=item270348233982&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

Pretty, but 6.5 again (they say sizeable, not sure by how much, maybe a question for the experts here):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-ESTATE-PLATINUM-DIAMOND-ETERNITY-BAND-RING-50C_W0QQitemZ120383970760QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Fine_Jewelry?hash=item120383970760&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

5.75 (not sure about sizing), but very pretty:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Platinum-10pt-Five-Diamond-Band-Ring-3-5g-s5-75_W0QQitemZ250379918028QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGemstone_Rings?hash=item250379918028&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

Perhaps this is the one? Size 7!!! The engraving does look worn, but it''s charming, isn''t it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-Engraved-Platinum-Eternity-Wedding-Band_W0QQitemZ320345435481QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Fine_Jewelry?hash=item320345435481&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50
 

TravelingGal

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TravelingGal

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Cathers

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Date: 3/2/2009 4:46:53 PM
Author: Loves Vintage



Date: 3/2/2009 4:25:22 PM
Author: Çã†hër§




Date: 3/2/2009 4:22:35 PM
Author: Loves Vintage
Here's a 6.5: http://cgi.ebay.com/INTRICATE-VINTAGE-PLATINUM-DIAMONDS-ETERNITY-BAND-RING_W0QQitemZ160098931651QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGemstone_Rings?_trksid=p3286.m20.l1116

Not exactly what you're after, but still vintage, platinum and pretty.
oh that is lovely!!!!! *swoon* I wonder if I should be typing more to lose weight in my fingers?? hehe

thanks so much LV I am going to watch this auction.
Here's another one. Also, not what you're after, but vintage, platinum and 7.25! And, a deal: http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Platinum-Diamond-Wedding-Band-1920s_W0QQitemZ270348233982QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUS_Wedding_Bands_with_Diamonds_Gemstones?hash=item270348233982&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:1|293:1|294:50

Pretty, but 6.5 again (they say sizeable, not sure by how much, maybe a question for the experts here):

http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-ESTATE-PLATINUM-DIAMOND-ETERNITY-BAND-RING-50C_W0QQitemZ120383970760QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Fine_Jewelry?hash=item120383970760&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

5.75 (not sure about sizing), but very pretty:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Vintage-Platinum-10pt-Five-Diamond-Band-Ring-3-5g-s5-75_W0QQitemZ250379918028QQcmdZViewItemQQptZGemstone_Rings?hash=item250379918028&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50

Perhaps this is the one? Size 7!!! The engraving does look worn, but it's charming, isn't it?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ANTIQUE-Engraved-Platinum-Eternity-Wedding-Band_W0QQitemZ320345435481QQcmdZViewItemQQptZVintage_Fine_Jewelry?hash=item320345435481&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72:1205|66:2|65:12|39:1|240:1318|301:0|293:1|294:50
Thanks so much LV! I really like the last one. We were recently in Moose Jaw for a getaway and we went to a shop that sold all kinds of goodies(not pawn, or antique, he just had lots of everything LOL) and I actually tried on a band very similar to the last one. It was quite a bit too big and the guy wasn't really willing to haggle, so needless to say, it is likely still in his shop.

I like this as well:
http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://pics.rubylane.com/graphics/shops/emilysattictreasures/1433.1E.jpg&imgrefurl=http://search.rubylane.com/jewelry/,ss%3D(bridal%2520or%2520wedding)%2520jewelry%2520(ring%2520or%2520band).html&usg=__8ozZ3Sm8GKL3pCHhfk2gJH5uNPE=&h=94&w=120&sz=4&hl=en&start=5&tbnid=LqP5kL1ucCIbfM:&tbnh=69&tbnw=88&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dart%2Bcarved%2Bvintage%2Bplatinum%2Bwedding%2Bband%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den


LOOK at this!!!! wowsers!!!

http://images.google.ca/imgres?imgurl=http://www.topazery.com/graphics/rg717-1.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.topazery.com/browse-wedding-rings.htm&usg=__fgqwieUlZIyWL2j5O4uwJaQRaEc=&h=149&w=112&sz=7&hl=en&start=15&tbnid=9o1AAX6l7aIkiM:&tbnh=95&tbnw=71&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dart%2Bcarved%2Bvintage%2Bplatinum%2Bwedding%2Bband%26gbv%3D2%26hl%3Den
 

Loves Vintage

Ideal_Rock
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Nov 19, 2007
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4,568
Were those both in yellow gold that you posted? The first link pulled up three pages on Ruby Lane, which can be a very addictive site. Based on the second one you posted, maybe you want a new(er) ring with a vintage look?

Moose Jaw looks neat. I looked it up because I wasn''t sure where it was.
1.gif
Lots of little shops there?
 
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