Dumb Question(s)

[LTCT814]

What makes a diamond face up “white” in all light settings? Is it possible to achieve this with a lab grown diamond? I have a LG that has excellent specs but I’m finding that I don’t love how dark it gets at night or in direct sunlight. I also prefer brilliance over fire (my current diamond has a ton of fire). Is it possible I don’t like the appearance of a “perfect” diamond? If I wanted a diamond like the one I described previously, what specs should I be searching for?

 

[Jax172]

All well cut diamonds go dark in those situations. That’s normal.

 

[LTCT814]

Not to be too much of a smart ack but..
A mirror and a flashlight?
In rounds an oec will have the best low light performance but its not a flashlight.
A large subset of cut diamonds will go dark to some extent in direct sunlight.
The light show is around them not staring directly at the diamond in direct sunlight but looking at things around it that the light show is being projected on.

Thanks @Karl_K - I understand why this happens, but it doesn’t seem to happen to all diamonds. At least maybe not as dramatically as mine? What causes that? A shallow depth? A pavilion angle that’s “off?” A friend of mine has a beautiful natural diamond that seems to face up white in all light sources. It darkens slightly but never as much as mine. It’s a round brilliant and is not a oec from what I can see. I’m curious if this can be explained somehow?

 

[0515vision]

What specs does your diamond have?

 

[Karl_K]

Thanks @Karl_K - I understand why this happens, but it doesn’t seem to happen to all diamonds. At least maybe not as dramatically as mine? What causes that? A shallow depth? A pavilion angle that’s “off?” A friend of mine has a beautiful natural diamond that seems to face up white in all light sources. It darkens slightly but never as much as mine. It’s a round brilliant and is not a oec from what I can see. I’m curious if this can be explained somehow?

First thanks for not taking my post the wrong way. It was not my best post.
What are the specs of your diamond?

 

[yssie]

What makes a diamond face up “white” in all light settings? Is it possible to achieve this with a lab grown diamond? I have a LG that has excellent specs but I’m finding that I don’t love how dark it gets at night or in direct sunlight. I also prefer brilliance over fire (my current diamond has a ton of fire). Is it possible I don’t like the appearance of a “perfect” diamond? If I wanted a diamond like the one I described previously, what specs should I be searching for?

It’s not a dumb question.

And, absolutely. You just need a different flavour of diamond. It’s not the preferred flavour on PS, and it’s not trade ideal, but someone else’s ideal doesn’t matter if you don’t care for it.

You know how you point your phone camera at something bright and the camera makes everything else around it go dark - darker than reality sometimes? In extreme conditions our eyes do the same thing. Your diamond isn’t actually going dark, what’s happening is that it’s well cut, so it’s throwing out these big bold flashes that are so much brighter than the parts of the stone that aren’t flashing, the rest of the stone looks “dark”.

Solution: Look for a diamond that doesn’t specialize in “big bold flashes”. Nothing to do with lab grown vs. mined - it’s all about the facet pattern. What you’re looking for is virtual facets that are as small as possible without turning to mush or leaking face-up. Think “tub of glitter”. This is super easy to find in some shapes - radiants, pears… Harder in round brilliants.

 

[LTCT814]

First thanks for not taking my post the wrong way. It was not my best post.
What are the specs of your diamond?

No worries, it was late! I've linked the IGI report below. This diamond was recommended to me by a reputable source on this forum so I know it's well cut and exactly what I asked for when searching. It's beautiful, I'm certainly not saying otherwise, I'm just not sure it's what I want now. IGI Report

 

[LTCT814]

It’s not a dumb question.

And, absolutely. You just need a different flavour of diamond. It’s not the preferred flavour on PS, and it’s not trade ideal, but someone else’s ideal doesn’t matter if you don’t care for it.

You know how you point your phone camera at something bright and the camera makes everything else around it go dark - darker than reality sometimes? In extreme conditions our eyes do the same thing. Your diamond isn’t actually going dark, what’s happening is that it’s well cut, so it’s throwing out these big bold flashes that are so much brighter than the parts of the stone that aren’t flashing, the rest of the stone looks “dark”.

Solution: Look for a diamond that doesn’t specialize in “big bold flashes”. Nothing to do with lab grown vs. mined - it’s all about the facet pattern. What you’re looking for is virtual facets that are as small as possible without turning to mush or leaking face-up. Think “tub of glitter”. This is super easy to find in some shapes - radiants, pears… Harder in round brilliants.

Thank you, @yssie, I appreciate your kind words and explanation. The diamond was found by a very reputable source on here and was exactly what I asked for when looking. I know it's well cut and what most look for on this forum. Is something like this harder to find in round brilliants due to the typical cut of these shapes (=arrows)? Is that why you see this more with OEC's? Is there an easy way to identify a diamond that fits this description online?

 

[Karl_K]

Numbers look good.
Sounds like there is nothing wrong with it, it is what it is.
One issue is not going dark in full sunlight and great low light performance are contrary goals.
A well cut antique style high crown pear is the 1 that comes to mind as being closest

 

[0515vision]

Will your friend share the report of her diamond? I'm curious to see what the stats are on that stone. Bummer that you're having a so-so experience with your diamond.

 

[yssie]

Thank you, @yssie, I appreciate your kind words and explanation. The diamond was found by a very reputable source on here and was exactly what I asked for when looking. I know it's well cut and what most look for on this forum. Is something like this harder to find in round brilliants due to the typical cut of these shapes (=arrows)? Is that why you see this more with OEC's? Is there an easy way to identify a diamond that fits this description online?

Like Jax and Karl said - this is how well cut rounds behave! However, "well cut" is in itself a definition - that prefers certain characteristics that result in these behaviours. If you don't like the behaviours, but you want to keep the round shape, you need to look outside the box of what the industry considers "well cut".

Here's a stone that's a good match for your asks. Favours brightness (white light returns) across different lighting conditions, more "tub of glitter" sparkle and twinkle than big bold flash. Ignore colour/clarity/size/fluor - just look at the faceting. See how all the facets in the stone (virtual) facets look pretty small and splintery and random? (Screenshot is at slight tilt from face-up.)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...arat-g-color-vs2-clarity-good-cut-sku-8174751


Here's a stone that's the exact opposite of what you want. Again, itnore colour/clarity/etc - the virtual facets are large and the patterning is very symmetric. This is a stone that will go dark in sunlight whilst those giant facets flash. (Screenshot is at slight tilt from face-up.)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vs1-clarity-very-good-cut-sku-19884249

 

[LTCT814]

Like Jax and Karl said - this is how well cut rounds behave! However, "well cut" is in itself a definition - that prefers certain characteristics that result in these behaviours. If you don't like the behaviours, but you want to keep the round shape, you need to look outside the box of what the industry considers "well cut".

Here's a stone that's a good match for your asks. Favours brightness (white light returns) across different lighting conditions, more "tub of glitter" sparkle and twinkle than big bold flash. Ignore colour/clarity/size/fluor - just look at the faceting. See how all the facets in the stone (virtual) facets look pretty small and splintery and random? (Screenshot is at slight tilt from face-up.)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...arat-g-color-vs2-clarity-good-cut-sku-8174751


Here's a stone that's the exact opposite of what you want. Again, itnore colour/clarity/etc - the virtual facets are large and the patterning is very symmetric. This is a stone that will go dark in sunlight whilst those giant facets flash. (Screenshot is at slight tilt from face-up.)
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...-color-vs1-clarity-very-good-cut-sku-19884249

This is so helpful! Thank you!!

 

[0515vision]

@yssie! Such great info! Thx for taking the time!

 

[LTCT814]

Will your friend share the report of her diamond? I'm curious to see what the stats are on that stone. Bummer that you're having a so-so experience with your diamond.

I wouldn't feel comfortable asking (we're not that close) but I wish I knew more about it!

 

[0515vision]

If you’re comfortable, it might be worth ordering a stone like the one @yssie showed and comparing it next to your own. All with the intention of returning it. Like a science experiment.

 

[LTCT814]

If you’re comfortable, it might be worth ordering a stone like the one @yssie showed and comparing it next to your own. All with the intention of returning it. Like a science experiment.

That's a great idea. Thank you for the suggestion. That may help me understand if I truly like the look or if I'm overthinking.

 

[DejaWiz]

A well cut and proportioned 60/60 style round cut may be more in line with what you are desiring, although even those can go dark in more intense direct lighting when dispersion takes over from brilliance in indirect lighting.

 

[LTCT814]

A well cut and proportioned 60/60 style round cut may be more in line with what you are desiring, although even those can go dark in more intense direct lighting when dispersion takes over from brilliance in indirect lighting.

Thank you, @DejaWiz I appreciate your kind reply. I'll take a look at these too!

 

[ariel144]

Thanks for bringing this topic up on PS!

What makes a diamond face up “white” in all light settings? Is it possible to achieve this with a lab grown diamond? I have a LG that has excellent specs but I’m finding that I don’t love how dark it gets at night or in direct sunlight. I also prefer brilliance over fire (my current diamond has a ton of fire). Is it possible I don’t like the appearance of a “perfect” diamond? If I wanted a diamond like the one I described previously, what specs should I be searching for?

NO ONE HAS EVER BROUGHT THIS UP ON PS....SO Thank you for describing this principle of how RB's perform in real life in different light settings. I thought maybe my MRB LGD had too much graining but I KNEW that only affects the performance in SPOT LIGHTING.... if you have ever watched Rhino's video on LGD graining. You can see the difference in two MRB CVD LGD in spot lighting on his video when he shows them both in spot lighting. That was not a deal breaker for me; the difference in the performance which ONLY happens in spot lighting. It was such a slight difference in performance in spot lighting....I was like ....not a big deal to me!

BTW, the additional treatments they do to CVD's is mainly heating which gets rid of a lot of the internal graining.

I knew this fact before I pulled the trigger on my MRB because it wasn't that big of a deal to me if my CVD had a lot of graining or not...BTW...ALL CVD's have graining...some just have more than others.

It is comforting to know that this principle that you are referring to, happens to all MRB's and it is not unique to your diamond or mine!!!!

Thanks to all the posters that educated us on why this happens to MRB's!!!

I have been experiencing this AS WELL with my super ideal 3.45 G color RB!!! Not liking how it goes dark so often....and WHY IS THIS HAPPENING? I dislike it so much I just listed my platinum halo ring with this diamond on Loupe Troop. Total asking price much less than I paid for my 3.45c lab grown diamond back when prices were high. The posting includes the amazing ASET image, etc! You can find it under "rings" and see the ASET etc.

Recently my daughter got a 4c earth mined oval and it looked bright and white in her kitchen and I looked at my RB and it looked dark in the same lighting!!!
I also bought a 3.01 antique elongated cushion that also has an amazing ASET, and wear it in a stone holder next to my RB...results??? This cushion is almost always white and bright in all lighting vs this MRB!!!

The HCA was 1.2 and also that X fell in the middle of the "green" on the HCA which gave it a rating of EX, EX, EX, VG!!!! And the numbers on the cert. are almost identical to your stone. So I knew it was well cut, and especially with the proof of the ASET I did after I received it. ASETS do not lie!

If my ring doesn't sell, I will have my MRB recut into an OEC and reset in the platinum graduated halo!!!

Lesson learned...THERE ARE NO STUPID QUESTIONS!!! And so I thank you for your brave question...greatly educated now on MRB's!

 

[LTCT814]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) - I recently read the information you published about BIC's -https://www.diamond-cut.com.au/23_bicfic.htm If the crown angle should be less than 32.5 to achieve more brilliance than scintillation, are there ideal depth, crown and pavilion angles to go along with this?

 

[LTCT814]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) - I recently read the information you published about BIC's -https://www.diamond-cut.com.au/23_bicfic.htm If the crown angle should be less than 32.5 to achieve more brilliance than scintillation, are there ideal depth, crown and pavilion angles to go along with this?

I think I found what I was looking for buried in some old threads!

 

[Kim N]

@Garry H (Cut Nut) - I recently read the information you published about BIC's -https://www.diamond-cut.com.au/23_bicfic.htm If the crown angle should be less than 32.5 to achieve more brilliance than scintillation, are there ideal depth, crown and pavilion angles to go along with this?

Did you see Garry's chart already?

 

[LTCT814]

Did you see Garry's chart already?

@Kim N Thank you! I found an old one from 2020 but haven’t seen this version. This is exactly what I need! I really appreciate it.

 

[LTCT814]

Thank you to everyone for your help! I've found a few diamonds that appear to have more brightness than fire. Our of the options below, is there one that stands out above the rest or should all of these theoretically perform very similarly?

Option 1 -- 2.71 / F / VS2
Table - 59.5
Crown Angle - 33
Pavillion Angle - 41.2
Depth - 60
Size - 9.04 - 9.12 X 5.45 MM

Option 2 -- 2.70 / G / VS1
Table - 60
Crown Angle - 33.1
Pavillion Angle - 41
Depth - 60.6
Size - 8.94 - 8.99 X 5.43 MM

Option 3 -- 2.74 / G / VS1
Table - 60
Crown Angle - 33
Pavillion Angle - 41.3
Depth - 60
Size - 9.09 - 9.12 X 5.46 MM

My current diamond size is 8.88 - 8.91 X 5.54. Ideally, I would love to purchase something that could be placed in my current setting (Tiffany-style solitaire) without having to purchase something entirely new. This would be a question for a jeweler, but does anyone know if this is feasible with these options? I have no idea how "flexible" settings are.

Thank you to everyone who has taken the time to comment on this. I really appreciate it! Happy Sunday!

 

[0515vision]

Do you have videos? Since you're aiming for a specific type of performance, I think videos are key here.

 

[LTCT814]

Do you have videos? Since you're aiming for a specific type of performance, I think videos are key here.

I do! Is there a way to add them without the report number? I don’t want these to get scooped up by someone in the interim.

 

[0515vision]

@DejaWiz @Kim N - do you know how to upload videos w/o showing the report number? Gotta be on the lookout for lurkers!

 

[DejaWiz]

@DejaWiz @Kim N - do you know how to upload videos w/o showing the report number? Gotta be on the lookout for lurkers!

If you can download the video without any watermarks like the grading report number, then you can upload to a site like Imgur.

 

[LTCT814]

I can't figure out how to download the videos but here they are. Hopefully these won't get scooped up in the process!

According to Garry's chart, option 3 seems to fall into the "more brightness" category. However, the HCA showed this diamond as "very good" for scintillation and "excellent" for fire - opposite of what I see on the chart and what I want. That said, I know the HCA score is just a guide.

Option 1 -- 2.71 / F / VS2
Table - 59.5
Crown Angle - 33
Pavillion Angle - 41.2
Depth - 60
Size - 9.04 - 9.12 X 5.45 MM

Option 2 -- 2.70 / G / VS1
Table - 60
Crown Angle - 33.1
Pavillion Angle - 41
Depth - 60.6
Size - 8.94 - 8.99 X 5.43 MM

Option 3 -- 2.74 / G / VS1
Table - 60
Crown Angle - 33
Pavillion Angle - 41.3
Depth - 60
Size - 9.09 - 9.12 X 5.46 MM

 

[Kim N]

I can't figure out how to download the videos but here they are. Hopefully these won't get scooped up in the process!

According to Garry's chart, option 3 seems to fall into the "more brightness" category. However, the HCA showed this diamond as "very good" for scintillation and "excellent" for fire - opposite of what I see on the chart and what I want. That said, I know the HCA score is just a guide.

Option 1 -- 2.71 / F / VS2
Table - 59.5
Crown Angle - 33
Pavillion Angle - 41.2
Depth - 60
Size - 9.04 - 9.12 X 5.45 MM

Option 2 -- 2.70 / G / VS1
Table - 60
Crown Angle - 33.1
Pavillion Angle - 41
Depth - 60.6
Size - 8.94 - 8.99 X 5.43 MM

Option 3 -- 2.74 / G / VS1
Table - 60
Crown Angle - 33
Pavillion Angle - 41.3
Depth - 60
Size - 9.09 - 9.12 X 5.46 MM

I'm not a fan of the cut precision on these.

This is more like what I'd recommend.

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