Down to the wire, still a few decisions.

[Ellen]

Date: 8/19/2008 9:11:20 PM
Author: mobius8

Date: 8/19/2008 9:24:07 AM
Author: Ellen
Mobius, I would personally care more about the cut than the size. A very well cut stone is what makes people go WOW. My .58 ACA studs do that.

Plus, you have sidestones, it''s going to be blingy!


However, I doubt you''re not going to be able to swing a stone of that size in an H, or even I, and keep it at ten. Here''s what a nice I is running. 11,294 with bankwire.


http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4577/
To keep it at budget, here''s a beautiful J. And remember, a well cut stone will appear whiter than a not so hot stone.
http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/4316/
WF didn''t have anything showing in this range. (that looked promising)

Okay. I know you know what you are talking about. And I trust your recommendations, but I am scared of a J.
It just seems SOOO FAR from a D.
And I do acknowledge that you are correct in stating that CUT is the most important C.
Argh. Soo confusing.
Anyone want to trade a new kitchen of appliances for a really nice diamond.
That''s something I understand


p.s. I sell appliances

LOL!

Ok, I understand a J scares you, fair enough. Though, if you can find a place that sells Hearts on Fire, go see some lower color stones, in natural light, and see what you think. You might be surprised.

However, what do you mean "it''s so far from a D"? There''s no D, or E, F, possibly even G in this rings equation....

 

[:)]

Mobius if a J scares you, look into the ones I posted earlier -they are G and Hs. I actually think that jstarfireb posted one of the ones I posted at the same time I was working on my post too.

 

[JoeNewbie11]

Here''s one in budget: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1163615.asp

1.61 carat I-SI1 Ideal Cut (AGS Ideal 0) - this looks quite white

 

[mobius8]

Date: 8/19/2008 10:10:34 PM
Author: JoeNewbie11
Here''s one in budget: http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-SI1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1163615.asp


1.61 carat I-SI1 Ideal Cut (AGS Ideal 0) - this looks quite white

I want to thank EVERYONE for their input and the time taken to help me with this.

This seems like a really good stone for a really good price.
What does everyone think of this stone and this vendor?

THANK YOU!

 

[mobius8]

Date: 8/19/2008 9:19:19 PM
Author: Ellen

Date: 8/19/2008 9:11:20 PM
However, what do you mean ''it''s so far from a D''? There''s no D, or E, F, possibly even G in this rings equation....

I know I am not considering a D.
I just meant that it seems so far from away on the color scale from perfect.
I don''t know, just being weird.

 

[Cleo]

You''re not being weird - and you need to know you''re happy with whatever you buy - that''s what we''re here to help you with.

I totally agree that looking at some superbly well cut J colour diamonds in real life would be useful.. but if it''s below your comfort threshold, then that''s fine.

With regard to a D colour diamond being ''perfect'' I would have agreed with you when I first joined PS, but now I''m afraid I''m going to have to disagree.

Being D colour doesn''t make a diamond perfect. That D colour diamond could be a total dog, with heaps of black inclusions, and the worst, leakiest cut in the universe. Is it perfect? Hardly.

I''m stretching the point slightly here, but there''s more to a diamond''s beauty than being D IF.

All being D colour means is that someone has decided it is as white as any diamond found so far. (Maybe whiter diamonds exist.. that''s why the scale starts at D!).

Some PSers actually prefer a lower colour, and love the slight warmth that comes in a J, K or even L diamond. In fact, I think there are even some M colour stones on here somewhere.. and they are all beautiful in their own right.

Not being D colour doesn''t stop them being perfect.

That James Allen diamond looks awesome (providing it''s eye clean) I''d pounce on it if I were you! Nice find Joe!

x x x

 

[:)]

Ditto Cleo, nicely put - my only question would be to pose to the vendor if the ''clouds not shown'' were the grade setting inclusion. Looking at the plot it is probably a true SI stone, but need to check. Ask for an IS.

 

[mobius8]

Date: 8/20/2008 12:22:06 AM
Author:
Ask for an IS.

What''s an IS?

 

[:)]

IS= idealscope image. The stone has an AGS 0 for light performance, but not all AGS0 are created equal.

 

[:)]

A little light reading on reflector technology if interested

http://www.goodoldgold.com/Technologies/ReflectorTechnologies/

An IS is probably overkill but since JA can give you one, you may as well...

 

[mobius8]

I looked at the "virtual loupe" that site offers.
Seems like there is an ugly face up inclusion near the center of the table at approx the 3:15 position.

Anyone have any insight on that?
SI1 shouldn''t really have that, right?

 

[:)]

That image is WAY magnified. 16x is above what they even use for clarity grading. At least it looks like a true SI which makes it less likely to have the clouds causing any problems. I suspect it is eyeclean. Call JA first thing in the am and ask

 

[mobius8]

Date: 8/20/2008 12:33:33 AM
Author:
That image is WAY magnified. 16x is above what they even use for clarity grading. At least it looks like a true SI which makes it less likely to have the clouds causing any problems. I suspect it is eyeclean. Call JA first thing in the am and ask

Okay, I think I will.
What are all the questions that I should ask so that I don''t have to call repeatedly?

THANK YOU!
(they can send me an IdealScope image for free?)

 

[Cleo]

Bear in mind the loupe is magnifying 16x - and the diamond was only graded with a 10x loupe.

That inclusion looks pretty small to me, and it might well be an eye clean stone (but check!!!!!).

SI1 inclusions are usually pretty easy to spot with a loupe.

x x x

 

[:)]

Date: 8/20/2008 12:34:59 AM
Author: mobius8

Date: 8/20/2008 12:33:33 AM
Author:
That image is WAY magnified. 16x is above what they even use for clarity grading. At least it looks like a true SI which makes it less likely to have the clouds causing any problems. I suspect it is eyeclean. Call JA first thing in the am and ask

Okay, I think I will.
What are all the questions that I should ask so that I don''t have to call repeatedly?

THANK YOU!
(they can send me an IdealScope image for free?)

I have never heard of JA charging for an IS image. Ask for an idealscope image, and if they say they will charge you then let''s rethink as I am probably being overly anal, but I truly don''t think they will charge.

Ask if the clouds not shown affect the performance of the stone in any way (such as cloudiness).

Ask if the stone is eyeclean. Make sure you are very clear on what you mean by eyeclean - from 3 inches away, from 12 inches away, from the side, etc - just make sure you are both on the same page.

Ask for their opinion on the I color grade - do they feel it is a ''high'' I (meaning closer to an H), or a ''low'' I (closer to a J).

Ask for their overall impression of the stone.

 

[:)]

Oh, and ask them to hold it for you if you get answers you like so that you can have a moment to take a deep breath to be sure whether you want to purchase or not

 

[mobius8]

Date: 8/20/2008 12:44:59 AM
Author:

Date: 8/20/2008 12:34:59 AM

Author: mobius8

Date: 8/20/2008 12:33:33 AM

Author:

That image is WAY magnified. 16x is above what they even use for clarity grading. At least it looks like a true SI which makes it less likely to have the clouds causing any problems. I suspect it is eyeclean. Call JA first thing in the am and ask

Okay, I think I will.

What are all the questions that I should ask so that I don''t have to call repeatedly?


THANK YOU!

(they can send me an IdealScope image for free?)

I have never heard of JA charging for an IS image. Ask for an idealscope image, and if they say they will charge you then let''s rethink as I am probably being overly anal, but I truly don''t think they will charge.


Ask if the clouds not shown affect the performance of the stone in any way (such as cloudiness).


Ask if the stone is eyeclean. Make sure you are very clear on what you mean by eyeclean - from 3 inches away, from 12 inches away, from the side, etc - just make sure you are both on the same page.


Ask for their opinion on the I color grade - do they feel it is a ''high'' I (meaning closer to an H), or a ''low'' I (closer to a J).


Ask for their overall impression of the stone.

Date: 8/20/2008 12:44:59 AM
Author:

Date: 8/20/2008 12:34:59 AM

Author: mobius8

Date: 8/20/2008 12:33:33 AM

Author:

That image is WAY magnified. 16x is above what they even use for clarity grading. At least it looks like a true SI which makes it less likely to have the clouds causing any problems. I suspect it is eyeclean. Call JA first thing in the am and ask

Okay, I think I will.

What are all the questions that I should ask so that I don''t have to call repeatedly?


THANK YOU!

(they can send me an IdealScope image for free?)

I have never heard of JA charging for an IS image. Ask for an idealscope image, and if they say they will charge you then let''s rethink as I am probably being overly anal, but I truly don''t think they will charge.


Ask if the clouds not shown affect the performance of the stone in any way (such as cloudiness).


Ask if the stone is eyeclean. Make sure you are very clear on what you mean by eyeclean - from 3 inches away, from 12 inches away, from the side, etc - just make sure you are both on the same page.


Ask for their opinion on the I color grade - do they feel it is a ''high'' I (meaning closer to an H), or a ''low'' I (closer to a J).


Ask for their overall impression of the stone.

When asking for their overall impression. What sort of response would they give?
When you refer to "clouds not shown", what does that mean?(should they show them, could they have, I''m dumb here)

THANKS!

 

[:)]

Date: 8/20/2008 12:50:53 AM
Author: mobius8



When asking for their overall impression. What sort of response would they give?
When you refer to ''clouds not shown'', what does that mean?(should they show them, could they have, I''m dumb here)

THANKS!

Not dumb at all - we all have to learn somewhere! With regards to overall impression I would hope they would say something like it is a really well cut stone full of life - as opposed to ''well it is a good solid I that is lifeless'' (of course with an AGS 0 for performance you wouldn''t be getting the lifeless comment I am exaggerating for effect!) Just get a feel for how this stone compares to other stones they look at all day - you can even ask if they think it is the type of stone they would recommend a friend purchase if the friend were looking for the same weight/clarity/color, or is there another one that they would recommend over the current one.

The ''clouds not shown'' is listed in the grading report under the comments section (left hand side bottom in small print) - that means that they did not include the clouds on the clarity picture plot itself. Sometimes plotting a cloud on the clarity plot can make the stone look scary on paper (lots ''o pen points), when in reality it is a nonissue. It is quite common for clouds not to be plotted, but when you get to SI stones with that comment, you just want to make sure that the clouds did not cause a literal cloudiness that resulted in a downgrading of clarity from what would have been say a VS clarity to an SI clarity due to the clouds alone. The good thing is that if there is a lot of other ''stuff'' on the plot, then it greatly increases the likelihood that it is a true SI stone for other inclusions and not clouds.

 

[mobius8]

This is sounding pretty good.

How do we feel about the merchant?
Any history?

 

[Cleo]

James Allen are a very reputable & trusted vendor with PSers.

Do a search & you''ll find people''s own experiences with a bit of searching.

I''d have no worries recommending that you use them at all.

x x x

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/20/2008 12:14:17 AM
Author: Cleo
You're not being weird - and you need to know you're happy with whatever you buy - that's what we're here to help you with.

I totally agree that looking at some superbly well cut J colour diamonds in real life would be useful.. but if it's below your comfort threshold, then that's fine.

With regard to a D colour diamond being 'perfect' I would have agreed with you when I first joined PS, but now I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree.

Being D colour doesn't make a diamond perfect. That D colour diamond could be a total dog, with heaps of black inclusions, and the worst, leakiest cut in the universe. Is it perfect? Hardly.

I'm stretching the point slightly here, but there's more to a diamond's beauty than being D IF.

All being D colour means is that someone has decided it is as white as any diamond found so far. (Maybe whiter diamonds exist.. that's why the scale starts at D!).

Some PSers actually prefer a lower colour, and love the slight warmth that comes in a J, K or even L diamond. In fact, I think there are even some M colour stones on here somewhere.. and they are all beautiful in their own right.

Not being D colour doesn't stop them being perfect.

That James Allen diamond looks awesome (providing it's eye clean) I'd pounce on it if I were you! Nice find Joe!

x x x

Perfectly said Miss Cleo!

Everyone has given you great and thorough advice, so no need for me to repeat. Good thing, I haven't even had half a cup of coffee yet.

One thing I didn't see mentioned though, ask JA if they will set the stone in the setting you already have. (maybe ask this first)

 

[Jenn5504]

You''ve already gotten lots of wonderful feedback from some of the best around here, but I will go ahead and throw in my $0.02. I can''t imagine that anyone around PS wouldn''t recommend JA. They are very reputable. If they have some good contenders, then by all means call them and no need to worry about the vendor. Same with WF, GOG. BN on the other hand.....I have had several personal dealings with BN and I would not recommend BN. They don''t offer the additional analysis of the stone and personal inspection of the stone that these other vendors do, and in my experience their version of eye-clean is NOT what I think many around PS would agree with. That of coarse just happenes to be my personal experience, but it''s happened to me 2 times with BN. And they offer no upgrade policy. Belive me, it''s tempting to go with BN due to their large virtual inventory, but I prefer to get much better service and and upgrade policy when I''m throwing money around on diamonds.

As for size, 1.5 vs. 1.75 is an AWESOME size range. AWESOME. And you wouldn''t be here if you weren''t looking for the best cut 1.5-1.75 so you have nothing to worry about. If it came down to a 1.5 and a 1.75 I''d take the better cut stone but if that was equal then sure, the larger one. I upgraded a 1.59 for a 1.82. Some may not agree that this sort of jump in size is noticable, but to me it was. DEFINATELY not enough to compromise cut though.

The 1.6 I looks very promising! I well cut "I" to ME means you have NOTHING to worry about in terms of color. ...........just my opinion.

(I''m a J & K convert though!

)

 

[mobius8]

Now I am more confused than ever.
First, I called JA this morning about their 1.61. They guy was really nice and is working on getting the IdealScope for me.

Then I went to the local retailer where I purchased the setting almost 3 years ago. Mainly I wanted to double verify that the head could accept the stone I am interested in.
Then they threw a total wrench in the works!!!!

She suggested that I look at a cushion brilliant they had on hand and it looked GREAT with the setting. It added a bit to the antique look that my FF likes. I went back and forth with a round and the cushion set in the ring about a dozen times. Both look really good. But I am almost leaning towards that cushion now and I feel insane!!!

So, again I need more help. Advantages/disadvantages of cushion (or is it purely personal preference)
And also an opinion of their deal.
I know I would pay a bit more dealing locally, but I will not pay $1000 more to deal locally.

What they had....
1.73ct GIA cert
D color
SI1 Clarity
VG Polish
G Symmetry
62.8% & 60%
Faint Fluorescence
Slightly Thick to Thick Girdle
8.07 x 6.81 x 4.26
$12,200 after tax

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/20/2008 12:04:25 PM
Author: mobius8
Now I am more confused than ever.
First, I called JA this morning about their 1.61. They guy was really nice and is working on getting the IdealScope for me.

Then I went to the local retailer where I purchased the setting almost 3 years ago. Mainly I wanted to double verify that the head could accept the stone I am interested in.
Then they threw a total wrench in the works!!!!

She suggested that I look at a cushion brilliant they had on hand and it looked GREAT with the setting. It added a bit to the antique look that my FF likes. I went back and forth with a round and the cushion set in the ring about a dozen times. Both look really good. But I am almost leaning towards that cushion now and I feel insane!!!

So, again I need more help. Advantages/disadvantages of cushion (or is it purely personal preference)
And also an opinion of their deal.
I know I would pay a bit more dealing locally, but I will not pay $1000 more to deal locally.

What they had....
1.73ct GIA cert
D color
SI1 Clarity
VG Polish
G Symmetry
62.8% & 60%
Faint Fluorescence
Slightly Thick to Thick Girdle
8.07 x 6.81 x 4.26
$12,200 after tax

Well, that''s certainly some of it. The thing is, we didn''t see what it looked like, but you did. And you really seem to like it. That''s definitely a plus.

I did a price search, and the price is in line for what it should be, another plus.

Are you listing depth first there?

And, will this stone fit? At 8.07, it''s bigger than a 1.7 round diameter.....

 

[mobius8]

Date: 8/20/2008 12:51:37 PM
Author: Ellen

Well, that''s certainly some of it. The thing is, we didn''t see what it looked like, but you did. And you really seem to like it. That''s definitely a plus.


I did a price search, and the price is in line for what it should be, another plus.


Are you listing depth first there?


And, will this stone fit? At 8.07, it''s bigger than a 1.7 round diameter.....

You say that preference is some of it. What''s the rest?

I can''t remember. I listed the percentages in the order in which they were listed on the GIA cert, but was jotting down in a bit of a hurry.

They took the setting and stone back to their in house jeweler and he said no problem due to the thickness of the prongs.

 

[Ellen]

Date: 8/20/2008 5:22:46 PM
Author: mobius8


You say that preference is some of it. What''s the rest?

I can''t remember. I listed the percentages in the order in which they were listed on the GIA cert, but was jotting down in a bit of a hurry.

They took the setting and stone back to their in house jeweler and he said no problem due to the thickness of the prongs.

A round is said to be sparkliest, but a cushion can cover more finger area. Do either/both of these matter to her?

Price can sometimes dictate what one will get if the budget is not limitless. A fancy shape will usually cost less, and again, may allow for a spreadier stone.


mobius, don''t let this stress you out. You saw the setting with both stones in it. Maybe go back once more, and look at the cushion (alone) closely. Put it in natural light (away from jewelry llights), see if it sparkles nicely, is bright, shows fire. Then cover it from the light, it should not look as lively, but shouldn''t go totally flat either. If it seems pleasing, then just think about your girl, and which you think she''d like more. Follow your gut. It''s almost never wrong.

And I believe you have depth first, which looks good with the table at less %.

 

[mobius8]

Yeah, I think I will go back again tomorrow and compare back and forth.
I am going to drive the sales girl crazy, and if I don''t buy there I will feel bad.
Oh well.

Thanks everyone.

 

[honey22]

Ditto Ellen - the WOW will come from the cut not the size. I have an 0.8ct ACA and people see it and say WOW how sparkly all the time! It's not due to the size, but the cut. Aim for Ideal cut, and then get the biggest size in that range. Ellen makes great suggestions, as per usual

ETA - actually read the whole thread after I posted - oops. If you are looking for a cushion, you don;t have to pay the extra to deal locally, just look for a cushion online. You can still find a great cushion at one of the PS vendors and save some $$$ too.

 

[mobius8]

Here is the idealscope of the 1.61 from JA.
How does this look to the experts?

 

[Ellen]

I would want to know if the area at 3-5 o''clock is just because of tilt or not. The numbers say it should be a great stone, but it''s not the best I''ve ever seen, and far from the worst. I''d ask JA about that spot and the overall performance of the stone. It could very well be nothing, or nothing that would be visual to the eye.