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Don't send your daughters to The Rape School, UVA

packrat

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Callie Callie Callie ohhh Callie, trying to type when I can't see b/c of the tears rolling down my face. You are stronger than you'll ever know. I wish I could reach into my computer and hold your hand and cry.

JD has had to handle these cases. They're ones that give him conflicted feelings of, wanting to do the right thing, ask the questions he has to ask, even tho it's hard for the victim, sometimes making them cry...and then having to deal w/the accused, needing to go thru the proper channels..but also wanting to bash their head against a wall. We used to have a female officer, and he would go w/her when she had to interview, and I think that helped him, to see how a female will identify with and be more able to open up, to another female, as opposed to a male. He is already sensitive to that, b/c of me, and we have a daughter, which has helped when he's had to interview young girls. I will tell him that, thank you.
 

Jambalaya

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Oh, Packrat, I am crying for you too. You are so brave and strong also, going to the police and going through the whole process. At fifteen!! Your strength and character towers over the miserable excuse for a person who attacked you. You're petite, right? (From reading your previous posts.) How very brave of him, to attack someone small - and who's not even full-grown! I almost wish these "men" would experience someone approximately a third bigger/stronger than them giving them a taste of their own medicine and see how they like it.

((((Packrat)))))
 

Calliecake

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packrat|1416772377|3789123 said:
Callie Callie Callie ohhh Callie, trying to type when I can't see b/c of the tears rolling down my face. You are stronger than you'll ever know. I wish I could reach into my computer and hold your hand and cry.

JD has had to handle these cases. They're ones that give him conflicted feelings of, wanting to do the right thing, ask the questions he has to ask, even tho it's hard for the victim, sometimes making them cry...and then having to deal w/the accused, needing to go thru the proper channels..but also wanting to bash their head against a wall. We used to have a female officer, and he would go w/her when she had to interview, and I think that helped him, to see how a female will identify with and be more able to open up, to another female, as opposed to a male. He is already sensitive to that, b/c of me, and we have a daughter, which has helped when he's had to interview young girls. I will tell him that, thank you.


Packrat, Please know this happened almost thirty years ago and I have been great the past 29 years. I know you have also been through something terrible and for that I am truly sorry. I hope you know how much I mean that. I hope you are doing well now. When Jackie said she looks in the mirror and sees a shell if herself now and she remembered how pretty she felt before that party, I burst into tears. I so remembered looking in the mirror for months afterward and feeling like such a different person and thinking I would never think I was pretty again.

From everything you have wrote in the past about JD, I know he is a great man. I have imagined him very similar in demeanor to one of the great men that helped me that night and during that following year. My whole reason for telling my experience was hopefully if someone else has to deal with this, they will have the courage to contact the police and have the rape kit performed. Nothing will ever change if woman don't stand up and do everything in their power to convict men like this. I have nieces that I love like daughters and that article scared the hell out of me.

Maria and Jamabalaya, thank you for your kind words. My intent was not to make anyone feel badly for me. I truly am well and this happened so many years ago. I just hope at some point in time my story help someone. I do think one of the reason he chose me was because I was tiny.
 

Calliecake

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Packrat, I just saw the post with all you went thru. I have no idea how i missed it. Oh Honey, I can't begin to imagine how you dealt with all of that at such a young age. I know you are very close to your family but did you also have professionals helping you this ordeals? I seriously don't know how you got thru this. I really believe it's a lot different when you older. I had had a healthy adult relationship before I went thru this. I knew I had to get up every morning and keep going and even then it was so hard. At 15 you don't have that perspective on relationships and life in general. I feel so badly for you honey. I'm sitting her crying just trying to wrap my head around how you must of felt. Hugs, hugs and more hugs. If you ever need to talk, please know I will always be here for you. I know it was years ago for you but I also how this article me in a way I didn't expect. Just please know I am here for you. I so wish we only had gardening in common.
 

Jambalaya

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Calliecake, you mentioned being tiny. I used to live alone when I was in my twenties, and I was tiny back then, too - about 110 lb, and five feet three. One summer evening, I was at the apartment block door, and a young man reached it with me. Short and stocky. There was no one around, and although it was a large apartment block, there was frequently nobody about inside, either. It was a light evening and the guy did not look scary. I didn't sense any danger.

However, I was essentially alone with a strange man, so I waited for him to get his key out first (to prove he lived there). He did not. He waited for me to get mine.

Then I thought, OK, he must be visiting someone. I waited for him to ring the buzzer of one of the apartments. He did not.

So now I'm thinking, OK, he doesn't have a key and he isn't visiting anyone. And I'm pretending that I'm visiting, and still he's not getting a key out, and neither is he ringing any of the apartment buzzers. He wasn't waiting for anyone - he was trying to get in - and he wasn't a delivery person.

I thought, no way am I letting you into this building alongside me. No key and you're not pressing any buzzer either? So I rang my own buzzer, knowing there'd be no answer of course, and announced loudly "Oh, I guess he's not home after all!" and walked quickly away. Then I called the complex security guard and he walked me up to the apt - the guy had gone. I never saw him again, but I've thought about it, and since he had no key and also declined to press any of the apt buzzers when I didn't, I can't imagine that he was up to anything good. He didn't look scary. I guess I'll never know how that could have turned out.

What is amazing to me about this world is that so many of my friends can recount a list of near misses. Another time, a guy tried to get into the backseat of my car, before autolocks. It's my habit to lock all the doors of the car as soon as I get in, so that saved me that time. And my friend had the same experience of someone trying to get into the backseat of her car. She managed to pull away just in time. My cousin was coerced into sex at a party and he gave her scabies. The same cousin is currently with a man who threatened violence to her this year.

My friends have all told me that I worry too much and I'm over-cautious, but I don't think so, considering the things that happen to people and when you add up the near misses, too, an even worse picture emerges. When I was younger it was all, "oh, don't worry your pretty little head - you worry too much." I think that's very insulting because, clearly, women have much to worry about safety-wise in this world.

I don't know much about the college Greek Life scene, but from what I do know, I can't imagine wanting a daughter of mine anywhere near it. Or a son.
 

Jambalaya

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Forgot to say - although the guy at the apt door didn't look like the typical scary guy, I think that danger can sometimes be more dangerous when it doesn't look dangerous, if you know what I mean. Sadly, I think we women need to have our wits about us always. But we shouldn't have to live like that.

Many years ago, a journalist on a national paper disguised himself as a woman and lived as a woman - I forget for how long. A week? A month? Anyway, he reported that he couldn't believe how often he was harrassed and intimidated by other men, believing he was a woman. I can't remember much about the article but he said it was a total eye-opener for him about what women go through, in terms of daily hassle and innuendo and not feeling safe after dark in certain areas, etc.
 

distracts

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Jambalaya|1416776672|3789162 said:
What is amazing to me about this world is that so many of my friends can recount a list of near misses. Another time, a guy tried to get into the backseat of my car, before autolocks. It's my habit to lock all the doors of the car as soon as I get in, so that saved me that time. And my friend had the same experience of someone trying to get into the backseat of her car. She managed to pull away just in time. My cousin was coerced into sex at a party and he gave her scabies. The same cousin is currently with a man who threatened violence to her this year.

My friends have all told me that I worry too much and I'm over-cautious, but I don't think so, considering the things that happen to people and when you add up the near misses, too, an even worse picture emerges. When I was younger it was all, "oh, don't worry your pretty little head - you worry too much." I think that's very insulting because, clearly, women have much to worry about safety-wise in this world.

Oh ditto to all of this. And not even just near-misses like someone trying to get in your car, but also things where you KNOW they could have gone wrong if the person was different. Like, my college roommate and I met some guys a decade older than us at a party, and around 2 am they called her wanting us to go to meet them at a house party. I wanted to go to sleep. She wanted to go anyway even if I didn't go. She was really naive (okay, still is). I was not about to let her go to meet two strange men at one of their friend's houses at 2 am. Like... that just sounds like bad news bears, you know? It ended up being fine - they called when we were getting closer to say that there was no food at the party and they wanted to meet us at this 24-hr restaurant, and then we just went and hung out there. But... it could have NOT been fine. And it was the sort of thing that had all of my alarms blaring, but my bff was totally oblivious.

I also am petite, and one of my unbreakable dating rules was that if someone picked me up and carried me around without my permission, and especially if they didn't put me down when I told them to, there were no more dates. Period. End of story. Most of my friends didn't understand that, but if a guy is SHOWING ME that he won't listen when I say no, and will do whatever he wants with me because it entertains him, why should I continue to date him? I know I'm a very small person and it is fun to pick me up and carry me around. But it can really easily be scary for me.
 

Gypsy

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I personally think someone should bring these Universities up on charges for Obstruction of Justice.

That would be a nice quick way to get rid of the University BS internal proceedings for real crimes.

They need to be made accountable. They are perpetuating this culture of rape and protecting the rapists.

Their first response should be: Did you call the cops? Let's get you a rape kit.

Is it? Heck no.

There should be a duty on the part of the university to report to the police any and all of these reports, frankly.
 

Gypsy

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Just an FYI Blue Bloods just did an episode on this issue.

Yes, they are a right wing show. But they are actually very moderate and reasonable right wingers socially and I like the show. It handled the issue with some sensitivity.
 

missy

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Gypsy|1416811815|3789394 said:
I personally think someone should bring these Universities up on charges for Obstruction of Justice.

That would be a nice quick way to get rid of the University BS internal proceedings for real crimes.

They need to be made accountable. They are perpetuating this culture of rape and protecting the rapists.

Their first response should be: Did you call the cops? Let's get you a rape kit.

Is it? Heck no.

There should be a duty on the part of the university to report to the police any and all of these reports, frankly.

Huge ditto. I feel that any institution not holding the criminal accountable for their heinous crimes deserves to be prosecuted themselves to the full extent of the law. They should be shut down in fact if they cannot properly deal with this IMO.

Callie and Packrat (and anyone else dealing with this traumatic issue) my heart goes out to you. You are both such strong and brave women and I am proud to call you my PS sisters. Sending (((Hugs))) and much love your way.
 

TC1987

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Jambalaya|1416765232|3789068 said:
Just read the article and looked up surrounding coverage. I think I'm in shock.

I agree with those saying that it's a pity the victim wasn't encouraged to go to hospital, or felt able to go herself, because DNA evidence could have been saved and testimonies gathered from medical staff who saw the extent of her injuries. That evidence would have been an enormous asset at any trial, but now it would be much harder to convict those men. Are they really free and walking around in their communities, at liberty to commit more crimes? Words fail me. They must feel invincible.

I can't imagine being the victim of such a crime and not dialing 911 immediately, or being the friend of a victim and not doing that, but I've never been in that situation and the sheer trauma may well render someone incapable of doing anything but collapsing in a heap. That poor, poor girl. My heart goes out to her - she suffered not only on that night but every day ever since, feeling that the person she was before is gone. That is so terrible. She has received no justice.


I can understand how a rape victim is in shock. But wth was wrong with the rest of them, that her friends didn't take appropriate action? Even at that age, I would have called the police and taken her to a hospital. You don't hide, you get medical attention. That's what shocked me. Rape isn't socially acceptable. Everybody got that message when I was that age. We all went to parties and drank up a storm and I can't recall anyone ever being attacked by sexual predators at a party. I can't fathom why the college students mentioned in the story would opt to just keep quiet.

And that quote about "grab it's __ing leg" **edited by moderator. We do not welcome racist comments on this forum** for their athletic programs.

By today, all of the major US news media have reported on the frat suspensions. Apparently a mother of an earlier UVA rape victim started this site: http://www.uvavictimsofrape.com/ The more coverage this can of worms gets, the better!
 

Calliecake

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Gypsy|1416811815|3789394 said:
I personally think someone should bring these Universities up on charges for Obstruction of Justice.

That would be a nice quick way to get rid of the University BS internal proceedings for real crimes.

They need to be made accountable. They are perpetuating this culture of rape and protecting the rapists.

Their first response should be: Did you call the cops? Let's get you a rape kit.

Is it? Heck no.

There should be a duty on the part of the university to report to the police any and all of these reports, frankly.


Gypsy, My husband and I had this very same discussion on Saturday night. Rape is a felony crime. How is it even legal for the school to get involved without notifying the police. I understand that reporting the crime is a rape victim's decision. But if the school has been notified do they not at that point have any legal responsibilities to contact law enforcement. It's 2014 for God sakes. I think these people in charge should be fired. i personally think what they have done should be considered criminal. The way they treated these young girls is so unethical and utterly disgusting.

I also don't understand the young girls in the articles thought process. One of my very first thoughts after the attack was I wanted to do everything in my power to make sure this person never put another woman thru what I went thru. Did I worry about a court case if he was found? Hell yes, but the thought of someone else going thru what I did was so much more terrifying to me. I was also so filled with rage that I wanted him to pay for what he did. I think these girls actions are essentially giving these guys a pass and letting them go on to the next girl. Most rapists don't rape just one person. Men that commit these crimes will continue to rape. The police initially thought they knew who attacked me. He had been out of prison for a week and had been convicted of comimiting rape. There were 7 different woman who picked him out of a line up. The whole time his mom sat in the court room saying he was with her. This was before forensic evidence and they still convicted him of raping 2 or 3 woman at separate trials. If I'm remembering correctly he spent close to 2 years in jail. He had already broken his parole and was back in prison the night I was attacked. He didn't even last a week outside of prison. I remember the detective saying men that commit these crimes rarely change.

I apologize for being so emotional. I have had nightmares the past couple of night and I haven't had those in a long time.
 

telephone89

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monarch64|1416534213|3787687 said:
Don't let your sons grow up to be sexual predators.
No kidding.

That is kind of terrifying.
 

packrat

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I don't understand either, but..kinda. You know? B/c mostly nothing will happen to him. The girl gets stuck w/all the shit from it, and the guy gets...squat. Other guys don't look at him and be like you are disgusting I want nothing to do w/you as a person. But guys will look at a female who has been raped that way. And girls will look at other girls that way. Generally speaking, that's how it is. The female is left to deal w/the brunt of it. And then you look at it like, the *school* knew, people in positions of power knew, and did...nothing. So then the girl is again being shown, who cares about you? I had issues w/the cops not doing anything...and part of it, once I got older and was able to understand, was b/c sometimes their hands are tied too. It's such a sensitive thing. I thought my school was thinking badly of me, the teachers, and later found out that one teacher had been talking about me badly, and didn't realize my uncle was standing behind him. He called my mom in a blind rage and (he also worked for the school) they called the principal, superintendant etc. And they were concerned about *me*, not the teacher, not the one who raped me, but *me*, and I never knew it. Mom told me when I was in my mid 20's, and she said she was so overwhelmed by how upset they were and their concern for me. And I kinda wonder if some of that concern had been *shown* to me..you know? But again, it's such a sensitive thing, it's hard, especially for men I think, to know what to do, in that situation. I didn't understand that at the time, but I do now. Especially seeing JD and what he's done w/the department cases, and thinking about London.

Thanks guys, for listening and understanding. I was told to do counseling, and did three sessions w/a psychologist, and quit. If I'd maybe seen someone else it could've gone better possibly but...she wanted me to do role playing w/my mom's deceased real dad who died when I was two, b/c she felt that that affected my mom's and I relationship which caused me to rebel and happen to be at this party and be raped. (Um...what???) It did cause issues in my mind as far as men go..I spent a few years not giving a shit about myself, drinking like a fish, getting in trouble. It just became "what happened". It was never in my head as rape. I couldn't even wrap my head around it. We're a small community, shit like that doesn't happen here..until it does and all hell breaks loose b/c nobody knows what to do.

I had to learn to deal w/it b/c he was in school too. And his friends were my friends. Some of them did drift away from him, and then he died right out of high school.
 

distracts

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What kind of woman won't report sexual assault?
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/sandy-garossino/jian-ghomeshi-women-report-sex-assault_b_6059124.html?utm_hp_ref=tw

So what kind of woman is reluctant to report sexual assault? Anyone who consumed drugs or alcohol before the incident, who was intoxicated; who flirted with, has a relationship with, knows, or has significantly lower status than the perpetrator.

Any woman who's had an abortion or messy divorce. Anyone who might be in a custody battle. Anyone with a sketchy social media history. Anyone who's sexted nude photos or has unorthodox sexual tastes.

Any sex worker. Anyone who initially consented to sex. Anyone with addiction issues. Anyone afraid of her assailant. Any First Nations woman. Anyone from a minority or immigrant community. Anyone who's been raped before and not been believed.

Anyone without a strong support network. Any woman who waits too long. Anyone who's seen a shrink, or been prescribed medication for mental or emotional conditions. Any woman who doesn't want her medical records or psychiatric history disclosed. Or who has family members and a community who could be hurt or shamed by disclosure or publicity. Anyone with a criminal record or who is on public assistance.

Any woman with a past. Any woman with a future she doesn't want derailed by the stress of reporting.

In short, the kind of woman who doesn't report a sexual attack is almost any normal rational woman.

While it is very sad that people don't report, I certainly understand it.
 

Calliecake

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On ABC news tonight:

The UVA University did not ask the police to open an investigation into Jackie 's claims of sexual misconduct until the Rolling Stones article was published. Also the Dean did not expel students even after they admitted their guilt to her of sexual misconduct.
UNBELIEVEABLE!

How do these people keep their jobs????
 

distracts

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Calliecake|1416873554|3789896 said:
On ABC news tonight:

The UVA University did not ask the police to open an investigation into Jackie 's claims of sexual misconduct until the Rolling Stones article was published. Also the Dean did not expel students even after they admitted their guilt to her of sexual misconduct.
UNBELIEVEABLE!

How do these people keep their jobs????

They keep their jobs because, like it or not, the majority of people don't take crimes against women as serious crimes.

The only students I can recall being banned from my college's grounds for raping had raped men.
 

Gypsy

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Calliecake|1416873554|3789896 said:
On ABC news tonight:

The UVA University did not ask the police to open an investigation into Jackie 's claims of sexual misconduct until the Rolling Stones article was published. Also the Dean did not expel students even after they admitted their guilt to her of sexual misconduct.
UNBELIEVEABLE!

How do these people keep their jobs????


What I want to know is why aren't they getting arrested for Hindering Prosecution?
 

Gypsy

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TC1987|1416841809|3789515 said:
Jambalaya|1416765232|3789068 said:
Just read the article and looked up surrounding coverage. I think I'm in shock.

I agree with those saying that it's a pity the victim wasn't encouraged to go to hospital, or felt able to go herself, because DNA evidence could have been saved and testimonies gathered from medical staff who saw the extent of her injuries. That evidence would have been an enormous asset at any trial, but now it would be much harder to convict those men. Are they really free and walking around in their communities, at liberty to commit more crimes? Words fail me. They must feel invincible.

I can't imagine being the victim of such a crime and not dialing 911 immediately, or being the friend of a victim and not doing that, but I've never been in that situation and the sheer trauma may well render someone incapable of doing anything but collapsing in a heap. That poor, poor girl. My heart goes out to her - she suffered not only on that night but every day ever since, feeling that the person she was before is gone. That is so terrible. She has received no justice.


I can understand how a rape victim is in shock. But wth was wrong with the rest of them, that her friends didn't take appropriate action? Even at that age, I would have called the police and taken her to a hospital. You don't hide, you get medical attention. That's what shocked me. Rape isn't socially acceptable. Everybody got that message when I was that age. We all went to parties and drank up a storm and I can't recall anyone ever being attacked by sexual predators at a party. I can't fathom why the college students mentioned in the story would opt to just keep quiet.

And that quote about "grab it's __ing leg" **edited by moderator. We do not welcome racist comments on this forum** for their athletic programs.

By today, all of the major US news media have reported on the frat suspensions. Apparently a mother of an earlier UVA rape victim started this site: http://www.uvavictimsofrape.com/ The more coverage this can of worms gets, the better!


Shock is understandable and frankly expected. Yes, legally they are adults but mentally when it comes to dealing with stuff like this these are KIDS. They are on their own for the first time and frankly most of them are coddled and are used to calling mommy or daddy for any big issues. To be assaulted and betrayed and violated and unable to think straight is understandable.

What isn't? Parents and teachers NOT preparing kids for these types of things and telling their kids POINT BLANK: You get raped YOU CALL 911 IMMEDIATELY. You hear of someone ELSE getting raped? You call 911 immediately.

Someone has to prepare these kids. Rape is an unfortunately reality. Sticking your head in the sand is not an option.
 

decodelighted

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TC1987|1416841809|3789515 said:
[that quote about "grab it's __ing leg" **edited by moderator. We do not welcome racist comments on this forum** for their athletic programs.
Maybe awaiting the #Ferguson announcement has me on edge but I'm Caucasian and was pretty alarmed by this statement. What does this have to do w/race? or "average" boys at all? And there's been no assertion that these were *athletes* as in (arguably) many other college rape cases. This de-humanizing statement would be alarming FOR ANYONE of ANY RACE, IMHO. And it speaks VOLUMES about how RAPE CULTURE is ingrained early & consistently ... up to the highest echelons of academia (& later ... corporate america ... even the government.)
 

distracts

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decodelighted|1416879828|3789958 said:
TC1987|1416841809|3789515 said:
[that quote about "grab it's __ing leg" **edited by moderator. We do not welcome racist comments on this forum**.
Maybe awaiting the #Ferguson announcement has me on edge but I'm Caucasian and was pretty alarmed by this statement. What does this have to do w/race? or "average" boys at all? And there's been no assertion that these were *athletes* as in (arguably) many other college rape cases. This de-humanizing statement would be alarming FOR ANYONE of ANY RACE, IMHO. And it speaks VOLUMES about how RAPE CULTURE is ingrained early & consistently ... up to the highest echelons of academia (& later ... corporate america ... even the government.)
Agree. That statement struck me as BLATANTLY racist and really gross. Guess what? White boys from nice families rape too. If you've never met a white man who dehumanizes women, I think you probably haven't met many men.

And yeah, it's not something the average boy - of any race - would say, because the average boy doesn't rape. But those who do would absolutely say it.
 

Calliecake

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distracts|1416882937|3789979 said:
decodelighted|1416879828|3789958 said:
TC1987|1416841809|3789515 said:
[that quote about "grab it's __ing leg" **edited by moderator. We do not welcome racist comments on this forum**.
Maybe awaiting the #Ferguson announcement has me on edge but I'm Caucasian and was pretty alarmed by this statement. What does this have to do w/race? or "average" boys at all? And there's been no assertion that these were *athletes* as in (arguably) many other college rape cases. This de-humanizing statement would be alarming FOR ANYONE of ANY RACE, IMHO. And it speaks VOLUMES about how RAPE CULTURE is ingrained early & consistently ... up to the highest echelons of academia (& later ... corporate america ... even the government.)
Agree. That statement struck me as BLATANTLY racist and really gross. Guess what? White boys from nice families rape too. If you've never met a white man who dehumanizes women, I think you probably haven't met many men.

And yeah, it's not something the average boy - of any race - would say, because the average boy doesn't rape. But those who do would absolutely say it.


I could not agree with you more a Distracts! I missed the statements above while reading earlier.
 

monarch64

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I like TC but she/he can be a real pill. TC: Ever try just NOT being an insensitive **edited by moderator. No swearing**?
 

kenny

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Rolling Stone and the author have come under wide criticism in media in the last week for various journalistic mistakes.

RS just released this apology: https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/news/a-note-to-our-readers-20141205


"BY ROLLING STONE | December 5, 2014
To Our Readers:

Last month, Rolling Stone published a story titled "A Rape on Campus" by Sabrina Rubin Erdely, which described a brutal gang rape of a woman named Jackie at a University of Virginia fraternity house; the university's failure to respond to this alleged assault – and the school's troubling history of indifference to many other instances of alleged sexual assaults. The story generated worldwide headlines and much soul-searching at UVA. University president Teresa Sullivan promised a full investigation and also to examine the way the school responds to sexual assault allegations.

Because of the sensitive nature of Jackie's story, we decided to honor her request not to contact the man she claimed orchestrated the attack on her nor any of the men she claimed participated in the attack for fear of retaliation against her. In the months Erdely spent reporting the story, Jackie neither said nor did anything that made Erdely, or Rolling Stone's editors and fact-checkers, question Jackie's credibility. Her friends and rape activists on campus strongly supported Jackie's account. She had spoken of the assault in campus forums. We reached out to both the local branch and the national leadership of the fraternity where Jackie said she was attacked. They responded that they couldn't confirm or deny her story but had concerns about the evidence.

In the face of new information, there now appear to be discrepancies in Jackie's account, and we have come to the conclusion that our trust in her was misplaced. We were trying to be sensitive to the unfair shame and humiliation many women feel after a sexual assault and now regret the decision to not contact the alleged assaulters to get their account. We are taking this seriously and apologize to anyone who was affected by the story.

Will Dana
Managing Editor"
 

kenny

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What is so disappointing about this mess is it will enforce one of the reasons many rape victims not report: concern they won't be believed.
 

diamondseeker2006

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It is a shame, but it was a huge injustice for RS to publish an article without checking out all the information in the case.
 

monarch64

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That is a pathetic excuse for an apology. The line about their trust in Jackie being misplaced makes me so uncomfortable.

Obviously the accused should have been contacted and interviewed, but what exactly would they have said besides denying all of it? What's the fraternity going to do besides say there wasn't a party that night? Discrepancies in her story or not, I believe Jackie. I no longer associate with this person, but many years ago someone described to me a similar situation of which he was a part. He described it as "pulling train." No guy disgusting enough to participate in that is going to call it "gang rape" or use the word "rape" at all. And they do not see themselves as rapists. They truly think they are entitled to what they are taking from the person they are raping.
 

VRBeauty

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kenny|1417832852|3796203 said:
Instead of accepting responsibility for their poor journalism they are throwing Jackie under the bus. :nono: :nono: :nono:

Long story, but worth a read: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-05/rolling-stones-rape-story-fails-victims

:confused:

I see a Bloomberg's writer challenging the journalistic standards used by Rolling Stone and its writer.

The fraternity's response https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/540948932101414912 seems to indicate that there was indeed reason to do more checking into Jackie's story. Yes, I understand that the fraternity and the University are likely to be in CYA mode, and that their rebuttal arguments should also be subject to scrutiny. The point is that Jackies emotional state, and the horror of the attack she described, do not exempt her account from questioning.
 

kenny

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VRBeauty|1417891536|3796507 said:
kenny|1417832852|3796203 said:
Instead of accepting responsibility for their poor journalism they are throwing Jackie under the bus. :nono: :nono: :nono:

Long story, but worth a read: http://www.bloombergview.com/articles/2014-12-05/rolling-stones-rape-story-fails-victims

:confused:

I see a Bloomberg's writer challenging the journalistic standards used by Rolling Stone and its writer.

The fraternity's response https://twitter.com/samsteinhp/status/540948932101414912 seems to indicate that there was indeed reason to do more checking into Jackie's story. Yes, I understand that the fraternity and the University are likely to be in CYA mode, and that their rebuttal arguments should also be subject to scrutiny. The point is that Jackies emotional state, and the horror of the attack she described, do not exempt her account from questioning.

Oh I agree Jackie is accountable if she lied.

My point is RS should have not gone to press with the story till they questionted the perps, excuse me

alleged[/b] perps, and vetted the story more thoroughly.
They didn't do a complete enough job.
RS should have stated that, apologized for that, and left it at that.

 
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