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Does an AGS report plot all inclusions?

boxbits

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These are images of an eye-clean SI1 Whiteflash ACA.

Screenshot 2019-12-12 at 11.11.10.png

Screenshot 2019-12-12 at 11.11.21.png


Screenshot 2019-12-12 at 11.11.28.png



The AGS report notes the inclusions seen above between 4:00 and 5:00, but not the dark spot smack in the middle of the table.


Screenshot 2019-12-12 at 11.01.40.png


Screenshot 2019-12-12 at 11.01.51.png


Thinking perhaps there could have been some schmutz on the stone at the time of initial photography, I asked WF for another photo. But the black mark in the middle persists.


Screenshot 2019-12-12 at 11.43.17.png

I asked WF if the dark spot in the middle was an inclusion or a reflection and was only told that the diamond was 100% eye-clean.

I'm not terribly familiar with AGS reports having only purchased GIA-certified stones previously. I don't doubt WF's representation of eye-cleanliness but am wondering what the dark spot in the middle of the table could be.

Any thoughts would be much appreciated.

*Edited to add another photo.
 
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AV_

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I am used to seeing inclusions drawn on somewhat approximate positions on plots from anywhere. The group of inclusions seems to be deeper under the table - thus reflecting onto a star facet, so any slight tilt of the diamond would bias their position on the plot easily enough. I'd guess that anyone seeing this report and the stone will think as much & accept that the report matches the stone, which is what the plots are meant for.

just a thought
 

boxbits

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I am used to seeing inclusions drawn on somewhat approximate positions on plots from anywhere. The group of inclusions seems to be deeper under the table - thus reflecting onto a star facet, so any slight tilt of the diamond would bias their position on the plot easily enough. I'd guess that anyone seeing this report and the stone will think as much & accept that the report matches the stone, which is what the plots are meant for.

just a thought

Thank you for the response, @AV_.

Are you saying that the dark mark in the middle could be a reflection of the inclusions at 4 and 5 o’clock pictured in the photos/10 o’clock in the report?

I am not under the impression that the report does not match the stone. I’m just trying to understand what I’m seeing.
 
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AV_

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Are you saying that the dark mark in the middle could be a reflection of the inclusions at 4 and 5 o’clock pictured in the photos/10 o’clock in the report?

I am seeing four spots in the ASET: under the table in the center, at the edge of the narrow end of the shaft of the arrow at 4 o'clock, and another under the star at 10 o'clock, then a trail of white dots on the shaft of the 7 o'clock arrow (the last fits with the pavilion view of the plot).

I am not sure how to fit the face up plot showing just one group of inclusions, with the images that show three, unless two are reflections [the 10 o'clock & 4 o'clock look more smudged, as I expect reflections to be] or the plot is incomplete.

I'd rather have a video, or see this stone.

In general, I do not mind dot-type inclusions under the table - reflections mask them well IRL, reflections multiply things.
 

sledge

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boxbits

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I am seeing four spots in the ASET: under the table in the center, at the edge of the narrow end of the shaft of the arrow at 4 o'clock, and another under the star at 10 o'clock, then a trail of white dots on the shaft of the 7 o'clock arrow (the last fits with the pavilion view of the plot).

I am not sure how to fit the face up plot showing just one group of inclusions, with the images that show three, unless two are reflections [the 10 o'clock & 4 o'clock look more smudged, as I expect reflections to be] or the plot is incomplete.

I'd rather have a video, or see this stone.

In general, I do not mind dot-type inclusions under the table - reflections mask them well IRL, reflections multiply things.

Thanks again for taking a look @AV_. I did not even notice the spots at 7 and 10.

In general, eye-clean inclusions don't bother me. I actually think it's neat how scary some stones look under a loupe but appear flawless to the naked eye.

This is a link to the stone which is accompanied by a video: https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4153190.htm

I've already purchased this stone for a pair of studs (I will not see them until the end of the month) and don't think there's anything intrinsically wrong with it. Just trying to learn.
 
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boxbits

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Thank you @sledge and @Texas Leaguer.

I may be wrong, but I believe the dark mark (reflection, crystal, something else?) in the center of the table is here (screenshot from video):

Screenshot 2019-12-12 at 14.56.07.png
 

Texas Leaguer

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In answer to the question posed in the thread title, not every inclusion is necessarily plotted by either AGS or GIA. The purpose of the stone plot is two-fold: to identify the stone and to support the clarity grade.

Having said that, if there is a crystal under the table (not a reflection), I would have expected it to be plotted.

More here: https://www.pricescope.com/articles/ags-laboratories-clarity-grading-diamonds
 
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AV_

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@boxbits These will be great studs!


I don't seem to see a crystal under the table in the video.

I agree.

The video fits the front view of the plot perfectly - one group of inclusions near the edge of the table, with reflections [near the culet & on the opposite main] hardly noticeable from unlikely view points (line of sight at small angles with the table, irrelevant IRL) not face down. The inclusions noted on the pavilion view of the report are not visible.

I am quite surprised by how pictures show many more clarity characteristics this time.
 

boxbits

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In answer to the question posed in the thread title, not every inclusion is necessarily plotted by either AGS or GIA. The purpose of the stone plot is two-fold: to identify the stone and to support the clarity grade.

Having said that, if there is a crystal under the table (not a reflection), I would have expected it to be plotted.

More here: https://www.pricescope.com/articles/ags-laboratories-clarity-grading-diamonds

Thanks very much for the info re plotting and the link @Texas Leaguer and thanks in advance for looking further into my query.


@boxbits These will be great studs!

Thank you @AV_. I am looking forward to receiving them. They are a gift for my 40th. Something sparkly to celebrate another year. :)
 
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TODiamonds

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Puzzling indeed. Unless that's a new mark, it should definitely have made the inclusion chart.
 

Texas Leaguer

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@boxbits,
I have inspected the diamond and can confirm that the center inclusion that appears in the face up images (and barely in the video) is in fact a reflection of the inclusion plotted at near the edge of the table.

With some difficulty I can get the inclusion to appear in a reflection of the table facet. What is so unusual is that the reflection only occurs when the diamond is perfectly face-up straight. Even the tiniest tilt angle makes it disappear. That is why it is so fleeting in the video.

If necessary we could take images at slight tilt angles and you will not see the reflection, although that would require un-mounting the diamond. We are of course willing to do that if it helps you feel more comfortable with it.
 

Karl_K

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That is strange but not unknown.
Kinda kewl.
 

sledge

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Glad to see this resolved so quickly. Thanks for jumping in @Texas Leaguer and taking care of business.

Is the reflection visible to the naked eye, or only under magnification? Would it alter your opinion of an eye clean stone?

 

Texas Leaguer

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Is the reflection visible to the naked eye, or only under magnification? Would it alter your opinion of an eye clean stone?

The reflection is not at all visible to the naked eye. In fact, with magnification is harder to see than what one would expect from those face up images.

A diamond is a little sculpture of mirrors and the interplay of both the internal and external world is often very interesting and as @Karl_K says kinda "kewl".

Did you check out the "fishes" at the very end of the clarity grading article I linked earlier? Now that is kewl!
 

boxbits

Shiny_Rock
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@boxbits,
I have inspected the diamond and can confirm that the center inclusion that appears in the face up images (and barely in the video) is in fact a reflection of the inclusion plotted at near the edge of the table.

With some difficulty I can get the inclusion to appear in a reflection of the table facet. What is so unusual is that the reflection only occurs when the diamond is perfectly face-up straight. Even the tiniest tilt angle makes it disappear. That is why it is so fleeting in the video.

If necessary we could take images at slight tilt angles and you will not see the reflection, although that would require un-mounting the diamond. We are of course willing to do that if it helps you feel more comfortable with it.

Thanks very much for taking the time to look into this @Texas Leaguer. I appreciate the offer, but unmounting the stone to take additional pictures won't be necessary. I am totally confident with the previous representation that the diamond is eye-clean. I just wanted to know what I was looking at since I didn't see a correlating inclusion plotted in the AGS report. It didn't occur to me that inclusions could be reflected in this way (hence the title of this thread).

Thanks again to everyone for your help and input! Mystery solved, I am all the more eager to get my paws on these studs.
 
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Texas Leaguer

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Thanks very much for taking the time to look into this @Texas Leaguer. I appreciate the offer, but unmounting the stone to take additional pictures won't be necessary. I am totally confident with the previous representation that the diamond is eye-clean. I just wanted to know what I was looking at since I didn't see a correlating inclusion plotted in the AGS report. It didn't occur to me that inclusions could be reflected in the way (hence the title of this thread).

Thanks again to everyone for your help and input! Mystery solved, I am all the more eager to get my paws on these studs.

You are more than welcome @boxbits . Your question was indeed warranted.
 
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