Do you have the right to recline your plane seat?

[Porridge]

WHY is this such an explosive topic?

Anyone?

I have no idea. I have never even heard this discussed before!

 

[ForteKitty]

Seriously, what airlines are people flying? On my last flight, the people in front of us were reclined, and i still had enough space to get up, and WALK across two people over 6 feet. Granted, I was very close to them, but i had enough space to walk out! How tight can space really be??

 

[Porridge]

Seriously, what airlines are people flying? On my last flight, the people in front of us were reclined, and i still had enough space to get up, and WALK across two people over 6 feet. Granted, I was very close to them, but i had enough space to walk out! How tight can space really be??

Ditto all of this. I have never ever not been able to get out of any seat because of a recliner in front. I'm thinking we should start naming and shaming airlines here people, because I want to avoid!

 

[kenny]

Perhaps it has to do with body size.
All of this is more of a problem for the larger people.

People vary, but coach seats don't and clearance between rows doesn't.
Is it really fair that a 300 pound person gets the same room as a 100 pound person?

While seats and clearance between rows has been shrinking, we have been getting fatter.
I know I have.

This is the elephant in the room that, after 7 pages, nobody has mentioned.

 

[ForteKitty]

Clearance does vary though.

For international, Air New Zealand has so much space that my fingertips barely touch the screen if i'm sitting w/ the seat upright. If I recline, i can't even touch the seat in front of me. Cathay doesn't have nearly as much space.

As for domestic, Jet Blue has a ton of space, and Delta is just about as crappy as it gets.

I want to add that Virgin America has the crappiest lumbar support. Instead of supporting, it actually caves IN. Plus they have super thin seats so my butt hurts. Hawaiian Airline's new planes from LAX to HNL are almost as bad.

 

[jstarfireb]

That's interesting, FK, because I few Virgin America once and thought they had some of the most comfortable seats I've ever flown in. Weird! Their carry-on baggage policy, on the other hand, was atrocious for a flight from JFK to SFO (I had to gate-check the bag that has fit on every other airline I've flown because their attendant picked it up and decided it was too heavy).

 

[Aoife]

In addition to ForteKitty's information, US Airways gets my vote as one of the worst in terms of seat quality and space. It's one of the airlines I won't fly if I have a choice.

 

[iheartscience]

WHY is this such an explosive topic?

Anyone?

I have no idea. I have never even heard this discussed before!

Ha same! I had no idea people were even anti-reclining! I flew once or twice a month minimum for about four years, and never once had someone ask me if I minded if they reclined their seat, or get mad if I reclined my seat!

Apparently those who are anti-reclining except in special certain circumstances between the hours of 7 pm and 9:30 pm are few and far between in real life.

 

[iheartscience]

Perhaps it has to do with body size.
All of this is more of a problem for the larger people.

People vary, but coach seats don't and clearance between rows doesn't.
Is it really fair that a 300 pound person gets the same room as a 100 pound person?

While seats and clearance between rows has been shrinking, we have been getting fatter.
I know I have.

This is the elephant in the room that, after 7 pages, nobody has mentioned.

Apparently coach seats and the clearance between rows do vary among airlines and plane models! You'll have to add that to your usual quote: "People and coach seats and clearance between rows vary."

 

[ForteKitty]

That's interesting, FK, because I few Virgin America once and thought they had some of the most comfortable seats I've ever flown in. Weird! Their carry-on baggage policy, on the other hand, was atrocious for a flight from JFK to SFO (I had to gate-check the bag that has fit on every other airline I've flown because their attendant picked it up and decided it was too heavy).

Virgin America has a slightly wider seat so you get more room, which is nice! The lumbar killed my back tho. I flew VA from lax-mco, lax-bos, lax-sfo, all since June. Wound up with a messed up back and a migraine all 3 times, and the lax-sfo flight was only an hour! Wonder if they have different planes on different routes?

I was on United and Continental in August, and those seats were nice and cushiony, and actually had lumbar support!

eta: when i fly VA again, i'm bringing a lumbar support cushion.

 

[ForteKitty]

In addition to ForteKitty's information, US Airways gets my vote as one of the worst in terms of seat quality and space. It's one of the airlines I won't fly if I have a choice.

Think US Airways only has 29-30" seat pitch? Most have at least 31". Jet Blue has 32". Some international ones have 36" seat pitch in economy, i love it!

 

[Gypsy]

Ha, No, I was not saying that I let my baby kick people. Thanks!

I fly with my baby quite a bit and the glares I get from people just for showing up with a baby are really priceless. He has never kicked anyone that I am aware of at the airport or anyone else, but he does get squirmy and some of you were complaining about the person near you moving around, that was what I was referring to, movement. Even babies with excellent parents move, snore, giggle, etc. They are babies, not yet children so thanks; we are also working on getting him to use a spoon and to say "thank you."

Yes, my baby knows -in as much as any 17mth old can know- what "no" is. It is in fact his very favorite word after Elmo. I was just asking for a bit of compassion from the super judgy and totally lacking empathy posters here who seem akin to the many cranky people I see on airplanes. But I smile knowing that some day you will be holding your baby (or parent suffering from dementia, or ill friend or sibling) and while they have a meltdown and strangers glare and judge you will think "wow, I should never have been so nasty, I should really try to develop a sense of empathy!" I know your time is coming I too used to think "wow that person should control that infant" while earning elite mileage status for over a decade. Now as a mom who flies 3xs a year max, I know that control is very tricky.

Just wait for the next time you spend three hours trapped on the tarmac in a puddle jumper of a plane during a lightning storm. My baby slept through it thanks to GOD, nature, or whoever; I can't claim it was my masterful parenting abilities. We appreciated the applause baby got when we arrived, but ask yourself will you be as lucky as I was? Good parenting helps, but it doesn't cover everything. Keep on judging without any empathy and Karma will surely get you... Don't worry, I won't "tut tut" and shame you, I'll shift the diaper bag to another shoulder and try to help you out.
Maybe some of you could also try some compassion for others?

Swimmer, A) babies are different. B) I just want you to know that I don't glare just beause a baby or kid is "present"... and actually the only time I've been seriously bothered by a baby it was sick and it was the holidays-- and I'm pretty sure the baby was bothered more than anyone else.

For me it's children above the age of 4 that I get less tolerant about. If you have a four year old and you can't keep it from kicking my seat and it's a 1:1 kid to parent ratio you will get a glare from me.

Last time I flew I had a baby in the seat next to me. She was an angel. Less than a year and going to visit grandma for the first time. I had a great time watching her eat and sleep and yes, snore and gurgle and even squeal and chortle.

 

[LJL]

Ha, No, I was not saying that I let my baby kick people. Thanks!

I fly with my baby quite a bit and the glares I get from people just for showing up with a baby are really priceless. He has never kicked anyone that I am aware of at the airport or anyone else, but he does get squirmy and some of you were complaining about the person near you moving around, that was what I was referring to, movement. Even babies with excellent parents move, snore, giggle, etc. They are babies, not yet children so thanks; we are also working on getting him to use a spoon and to say "thank you."

Yes, my baby knows -in as much as any 17mth old can know- what "no" is. It is in fact his very favorite word after Elmo. I was just asking for a bit of compassion from the super judgy and totally lacking empathy posters here who seem akin to the many cranky people I see on airplanes. But I smile knowing that some day you will be holding your baby (or parent suffering from dementia, or ill friend or sibling) and while they have a meltdown and strangers glare and judge you will think "wow, I should never have been so nasty, I should really try to develop a sense of empathy!" I know your time is coming I too used to think "wow that person should control that infant" while earning elite mileage status for over a decade. Now as a mom who flies 3xs a year max, I know that control is very tricky.

Just wait for the next time you spend three hours trapped on the tarmac in a puddle jumper of a plane during a lightning storm. My baby slept through it thanks to GOD, nature, or whoever; I can't claim it was my masterful parenting abilities. We appreciated the applause baby got when we arrived, but ask yourself will you be as lucky as I was? Good parenting helps, but it doesn't cover everything. Keep on judging without any empathy and Karma will surely get you... Don't worry, I won't "tut tut" and shame you, I'll shift the diaper bag to another shoulder and try to help you out.
Maybe some of you could also try some compassion for others?

Swimmer, A) babies are different. B) I just want you to know that I don't glare just beause a baby or kid is "present"... and actually the only time I've been seriously bothered by a baby it was sick and it was the holidays-- and I'm pretty sure the baby was bothered more than anyone else.

For me it's children above the age of 4 that I get less tolerant about. If you have a four year old and you can't keep it from kicking my seat and it's a 1:1 kid to parent ratio you will get a glare from me.

Last time I flew I had a baby in the seat next to me. She was an angel. Less than a year and going to visit grandma for the first time. I had a great time watching her eat and sleep and yes, snore and gurgle and even squeal and chortle.

+1. Babies/infants- totally fine - scream all you want. I specifically remember an incident w a 3-4 year old that would alternate between kicking/banging on my seat and peeking at me through the armrest hole. Um REALLY? Parent was oblivious. I seem to remember them telling her to stop once and then just letting it happen. Most children are 100% fine. I fly fairly often and Ive probably only had 3 or 4 bad kid experiences..

Why I think this thread is so contentious... I think its because people rarely say anything about it bothering them in person. I know I don't like it when people recline but I would never say anything to them because ultimately, its their choice and it is a function of the seat. People bottle up the frustration but have no problem airing it on a message board

 

[Iowa Lizzy]

I have always thought of myself as a very kind and considerate person and I've never given reclining in my seat a second thought. I don't care if it's an hour flight on a little commuter plane or an overnight flight across the Pacific. If I'm uncomfortable in the upright position and it's not meal time, I'm going to recline.

I'm 5'5" and I can sleep with my face on the tray table when the seat in front of me is reclined. I'd love to see a picture of one of the crotch infringing seats.

 

[Imdanny]

A few things and I'm out of here.

A. I can't speak for Kenny but I'm pretty sure he meant: do you have a right [to expect to be able] to recline your seat, not do you have a right to be able to under law, a right under the Constitution.

B. The comparisons being made here to unwanted touching, assault, and injury are ludicous.

C. Physically retaliating against someone who reclines a seat will get you arrested when the plane lands, pure and simple.

D. I would not recline my seat or would put it in the upright position if anyone of you asked me to for any reason. If it meant that much to you then I'd do it and I would be friendly to you, understanding, and pleasant.

But is it inherently rude/ anti-social? The airlines, the flight attendants, the regulations, the general public, and society agree with me and say no. I'm sorry but that's the truth. You might be able to change this, but right now it is what it is- a feature of most of the seats you get to use in exchange for the price you pay. It's not like when they used to allow smoking. It's not injuring you. And you can't reasonably expect people to think recling a seat is outside the norm of behavior. It isn't at this time. I'm sorry but it just isn't.

 

[MissStepcut]

I actually talked to one of my professors about the subject matter about this thread today and he encouraged me to consider writing up a little legal analysis of it. Thanks for the thought exercise, guys

Imdanny, I can see why you'd call it ludicrous. As a student of the law, I definitely wouldn't. Of course, tort & personal injury law is where the more controversial lawsuits come from (hot coffee and the like) so I'm not surprised other people find my position "ludicrous."

 

[Deia]

WHY is this such an explosive topic?

Anyone?

I have no idea. I have never even heard this discussed before!

Just thinking outloud but maybe because it's the only thing people can attempt to control during their flight? I dunno.

Thank goodness 82% agree with me though or flying nowadays would become even more dreadful!!

 

[Imdanny]

I actually talked to one of my professors about the subject matter about this thread today and he encouraged me to consider writing up a little legal analysis of it. Thanks for the thought exercise, guys

Imdanny, I can see why you'd call it ludicrous. As a student of the law, I definitely wouldn't. Of course, tort & personal injury law is where the more controversial lawsuits come from (hot coffee and the like) so I'm not surprised other people find my position "ludicrous."

Yeah, well if you spill coffee on me all bets are off!

Ok, now I really am out of here- I need to look at some bling! Bye bye, everyone! Safe travels!

 

[Pandora II]

It's something that has always irritated me, but I didn't realise that it was the leading cause of air-rage.

Looking through comments on articles and other message boards, I think it's a lot higher than 20% - more like 40-50% who are anti-reclining seats.

I always check the seat pitch of aircraft if I have a choice of carriers. One of my favourites is Emirates which has 34", but some have 30" or less. When aircraft seats were first designed, the pitch was far greater than it is now. They've actually brought out a seat this year with a pitch of just 23"!

One of the problems if you are tall is that your knees are so far over the edge that even with the seat in front not reclined, you can't fit your legs in the space underneath the seat in front because of the angle - a problem that shorter people don't come across.

When someone in front then reclines, it is both back into and on top of your knees. The hinge part of the seat in front is below knee-level of the person behind. Just to top it all, you then get people that complain that you are deliberately sticking your knees into them - nope, you moved yourself into my knees.

When the seat is reclined and you are in a window seat of a 3 row, it's almost impossible to get out without pushing down hard on a reclined seat and doing a far amount of gymnastics if you are tall.

Btw, there is a huge difference between people who are fat and people who are tall. The vast majority of the former can change their lifestyle and remove their problem. If you are tall, there is nothing you can do about it.

 

[rosetta]

This thread is still going??

People should really check seat pitch before you pick an airline, if you are tall or fat. If the area you have is not adequate for your needs, then dont try to fly in it. Or upgrade to business or first class. Always assume the person in front of you will recline, is their seat is designed to do so. Always assume that person may be an a$$ about it, and remember the dangers of starting a fight on an airplane. A little sensible planning ahead can help you make your journey comfortable. If I was 6 feet tall and all legs, or weighed 200 pounds then I would either fly business or not at all. If I absolutely had to fly eg to visit a dying relative, then I would research and find an adequate seat for my needs rather than moan about the person in front.

http://www.seatguru.com/ is your friend.

 

[chemgirl]

Clearance does vary though.

For international, Air New Zealand has so much space that my fingertips barely touch the screen if i'm sitting w/ the seat upright. If I recline, i can't even touch the seat in front of me. Cathay doesn't have nearly as much space.

As for domestic, Jet Blue has a ton of space, and Delta is just about as crappy as it gets.

I want to add that Virgin America has the crappiest lumbar support. Instead of supporting, it actually caves IN. Plus they have super thin seats so my butt hurts. Hawaiian Airline's new planes from LAX to HNL are almost as bad.

Delta is luxury compared to United! I've been bumped to United from Air Canada several times and to get a seat with as much space as Delta's you have to pay an extra $60 for "up to 5 more inches". If I don't buy the extra space, I am touching the seat in front of me before its reclined!

United doesn't have personalized entertainment systems on most of their planes, so you're watching a preselected move on the tiny screen in the aisle like you're back in the early nineties. I've never not been delayed on United, and in those cases they just loop the movie. So I somehow saw Bucket List 3 times on my 2.5 hour flight...

 

[Loves Vintage]

Why I think this thread is so contentious... I think its because people rarely say anything about it bothering them in person. I know I don't like it when people recline but I would never say anything to them because ultimately, its their choice and it is a function of the seat. People bottle up the frustration but have no problem airing it on a message board

ABSOLUTELY, I think that's the reason why the thread is so long!! I haven't read the whole thread, just dropped in on the last few pages, and noticed someone (was it Thing2?) said that she never had anyone complain to her on a flight, so apparently it must just be us grouchy PS-ers who have a problem with EVERYTHING. Well, uhm, of course no one ever says anything to YOU. Most people are too polite to say anything about it. Instead, we just grin and bear it and then complain about it to our loved ones when we get home, or months/years later on message boards when given the opportunity to do so. For example, this thread. Or perhaps we sigh, loudly, and then complain about it at home. But, most people are too self-absorbed to notice what's going on around them, so they don't hear the sigh, or perhaps they don't realize it is directed at them, and they are actually annoyed by the loud sigher. Ahh. Glorious self-absorbed people. That would be the reason why people bump me with their f*$#@%g shopping carts in the check-out line. Because they don't even notice. "Hello, PERSON HERE!" But, I digress. So, yeah, I agree with LJL. People are not likely to complain directly, so they are doing it here.

 

[iheartscience]

Why I think this thread is so contentious... I think its because people rarely say anything about it bothering them in person. I know I don't like it when people recline but I would never say anything to them because ultimately, its their choice and it is a function of the seat. People bottle up the frustration but have no problem airing it on a message board

ABSOLUTELY, I think that's the reason why the thread is so long!! I haven't read the whole thread, just dropped in on the last few pages, and noticed someone (was it Thing2?) said that she never had anyone complain to her on a flight, so apparently it must just be us grouchy PS-ers who have a problem with EVERYTHING. Well, uhm, of course no one ever says anything to YOU. Most people are too polite to say anything about it. Instead, we just grin and bear it and then complain about it to our loved ones when we get home, or months/years later on message boards when given the opportunity to do so. For example, this thread. Or perhaps we sigh, loudly, and then complain about it at home. But, most people are too self-absorbed to notice what's going on around them, so they don't hear the sigh, or perhaps they don't realize it is directed at them, and they are actually annoyed by the loud sigher. Ahh. Glorious self-absorbed people. That would be the reason why people bump me with their f*$#@%g shopping carts in the check-out line. Because they don't even notice. "Hello, PERSON HERE!" But, I digress. So, yeah, I agree with LJL. People are not likely to complain directly, so they are doing it here.

Ha not quite what I said! I said no one has ever asked me if I minded if they reclined, whereas a lot of PSers say they ask the person behind them that. Guess you were too self-absorbed to catch that important difference, though! And I actually haven't heard an indignant sigh or had any of the passive aggressive behavior detailed in this thread directed towards me, so I'm going to assume I'm not breaking anyone's knee caps when I fly.

ETA incidentally, I doubt anyone asked if they mind if you recline would say no, whether they mind or not. People tend to want to say yes. and experiments have shown that if you ask someone if you can cut in line they'll usually say yes! So I don't think asking prevents people from stewing in their pointless rage about a reclined seat!

 

[Loves Vintage]

WHY is this such an explosive topic?

Anyone?

I have no idea. I have never even heard this discussed before!

Ha same! I had no idea people were even anti-reclining! I flew once or twice a month minimum for about four years, and never once had someone ask me if I minded if they reclined their seat, or get mad if I reclined my seat!

Apparently those who are anti-reclining except in special certain circumstances between the hours of 7 pm and 9:30 pm are few and far between in real life.

:yawn:

After this, I am not posting further. I can't believe I'm even spending the time to post this on one of your pointless "arguments." I *think* you would know if someone was angry with you if they said something to you. That's what I was referring to. Spelling.it.out.for.you.

Now, I am done.

 

[iheartscience]

WHY is this such an explosive topic?

Anyone?

I have no idea. I have never even heard this discussed before!

Ha same! I had no idea people were even anti-reclining! I flew once or twice a month minimum for about four years, and never once had someone ask me if I minded if they reclined their seat, or get mad if I reclined my seat!

Apparently those who are anti-reclining except in special certain circumstances between the hours of 7 pm and 9:30 pm are few and far between in real life.

:yawn:

After this, I am not posting further. I can't believe I'm even spending the time to post this on one of your pointless "arguments." I *think* you would know if someone was angry with you if they said something to you. That's what I was referring to. Spelling.it.out.for.you.

Now, I am done.

Ha-my deepest apologies, both for being mistaken and for somehow drawing you into a pointless argument!

 

[elle_chris]

Wow, I never even knew this was an issue.
I recline. Short flights, long flights, international flights. Morning, noon, or night. If I want to recline, I do.
I don't care if the person in front of me does, I'm not bothered too much by people kicking the back of my chair, and I deal with crying kids.
And I've never had anyone ask me not to recline, nor would I think of asking others. Granted, I'm only 5'5 but my hubby's 6'2 and yeah, he's cramped but hey, i always thought all the above was just part of the flying experience. At least in economy.

 

[Deia]

Wow, I never even knew this was an issue.
I recline. Short flights, long flights, international flights. Morning, noon, or night. If I want to recline, I do.
I don't care if the person in front of me does, I'm not bothered too much by people kicking the back of my chair, and I deal with crying kids.
And I've never had anyone ask me not to recline, nor would I think of asking others. Granted, I'm only 5'5 but my hubby's 6'2 and yeah, he's cramped but hey, i always thought all the above was just part of the flying experience. At least in economy.

exactly, to all of it, especially the bolded!!!

Lol so funny this thread has 7 pages!

 

[MissStepcut]

WHY is this such an explosive topic?

Anyone?

I have no idea. I have never even heard this discussed before!

Just thinking outloud but maybe because it's the only thing people can attempt to control during their flight? I dunno.

Thank goodness 82% agree with me though or flying nowadays would become even more dreadful!!

Well, I linked a poll with a much larger response rate that says it's more like 50/50, slightly more people against reclining, so I guess you're just lucky to be in the half that doesn't find reclining to make your experience much worse.

I think a big part of why people who resent reclining feel so strongly is the sense that the very limited space you had before has been taken away from you. The more you value that space, the more upsetting that will be.

 

[iheartscience]

WHY is this such an explosive topic?

Anyone?

I have no idea. I have never even heard this discussed before!

Just thinking outloud but maybe because it's the only thing people can attempt to control during their flight? I dunno.

Thank goodness 82% agree with me though or flying nowadays would become even more dreadful!!

Well, I linked a poll with a much larger response rate that says it's more like 50/50, slightly more people against reclining, so I guess you're just lucky to be in the half that doesn't find reclining to make your experience much worse.

I think a big part of why people who resent reclining feel so strongly is the sense that the very limited space you had before has been taken away from you. The more you value that space, the more upsetting that will be.

I saw that poll, but I think there's definitely selection bias with it. I'd actually love to see the question posed to an actual random sample...I wonder if a poll like that exists?

ETA: A poll on PS actually probably has less selection bias than a poll on a travel blog, really.

 

[Deia]

This is a pretty random sample of people I think!

Miss Stepcut, I see your point, however to be honest, it is part of flying, whether you (not you per say, generally speaking) like it or not. You have agreed to take a flight and everythig that comes with it. People should chill out a bit and enjoy life. Does it really matter and will it make a difference in your life if some stranger in front of you wants to recline his chair? I don't get it!!