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Do today's men have commitment issues?

Laila619

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livannie|1401915907|3686581 said:
I agree with Ilander. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? That's what I have always heard growing up. It may be old fashioned but I really believe it. Once you give everything to a man, why should he marry you when he already has you? I believe in making them work to get you. Nowadays it seems common for people to live together before marriage and while it may be good to get to know eachother better that way, the guy often seems not to want to get married in those situations. My little brother has been living with his girlfriend for 3 years now and has no plans of marrying anytime soon. My husband and I didn't sleep together at all till our wedding night and we got married one year after we met. There is no wrong or right way of doing it but I think making men wait a little is a good thing.
livannie, I don't see anything wrong with making men work/wait. And I don't think it's game playing like Niel said; there's nothing wrong with being busy and not always being available to a guy. But it doesn't always result in a fast proposal. I was hard to get with my DH--I didn't see him all the time, I had other interests/friends/hobbies keeping me busy, I wasn't sleeping with him or moving in with him, and he still needed a kick in the butt to propose finally at 16 months. I basically hinted to him that I would be moving on soon and seeing other men, and that's when he proposed 2 days later. Some guys just move at a turtle's pace.
 

Niel

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I just don't think putting out before or after your wedding night has too much bearing on the situation.

If he loves you and wants a family with you then you get married. I suppose in theory he could propose just to get you to pur out, but I think we can all agree that's not the right reason to get married. And not exactly a good sign for long term happiness.

I agree a woman should have a life outside a man and vice versa. But I do not think most men base their proposal on whether or not a there is a sexual component. I think that's just something each couple decides on what's best for them.
 

monarch64

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"Why buy the cow..." Do people actually still say/believe that? :confused: I guess it could be true for some people with that kind of upbringing, but it's the sort of generalization that, like MariaD says, offends my feminist sensibilities. I'm not a cow, and the only person I ever gave away my milk to for free was my daughter. I understand the metaphor, but in my world sex is something shared between two people because they want to make each other feel good, not a bartering tool.

Laila, I agree, some guys are just slow about the process. But I think if it's a commitment issue, they wouldn't live with someone in the first place? Because signing a lease is a pretty big commitment in and of itself, yanno? More and more, I think that people just assume they have all the time in the world.
 

livannie

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I didn't purposely not sleep with my husband to trick him into marrying me, it is part of our religion and he wanted to wait too, even though it was hard at times. I was engaged before to someone else and he didn't want to wait and we eventually broke up. I guess a guy proposing depends on the guy. But like Ilander said if you do everything for him just like his mom before you are married he will just think of marriage as a piece of paper. My Dad isn't very religious but he always told me a guy would lose respect for me if I didn't wait till I got married. And maybe it isn't true with all guys but I have always thought my Dad was very smart and always remembered his advice.
 

mary poppins

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Lady_Disdain|1401916167|3686588 said:
livannie|1401915907|3686581 said:
I agree with Ilander. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? That's what I have always heard growing up. It may be old fashioned but I really believe it. Once you give everything to a man, why should he marry you when he already has you? I believe in making them work to get you. Nowadays it seems common for people to live together before marriage and while it may be good to get to know eachother better that way, the guy often seems not to want to get married in those situations. My little brother has been living with his girlfriend for 3 years now and has no plans of marrying anytime soon. My husband and I didn't sleep together at all till our wedding night and we got married one year after we met. There is no wrong or right way of doing it but I think making men wait a little is a good thing.
Sorry for the double post.

I dislike this view. Marriage should not be something that women want desperately and men have to be roped into reluctantly. You could say the same thing: why should a woman want to get married, when she can support herself, have sex without being pressured to marry, etc. If my husband had only wanted to marry me to finally have sex, I would not have married him at all.
Why buy the pig when you can get the sausage for free?
 

Niel

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monarch64|1401917514|3686604 said:
"Why buy the cow..." Do people actually still say/believe that? :confused: I guess it could be true for some people with that kind of upbringing, but it's the sort of generalization that, like MariaD says, offends my feminist sensibilities. I'm not a cow, and the only person I ever gave away my milk to for free was my daughter. I understand the metaphor, but in my world sex is something shared between two people because they want to make each other feel good, not a bartering tool.

Laila, I agree, some guys are just slow about the process. But I think if it's a commitment issue, they wouldn't live with someone in the first place? Because signing a lease is a pretty big commitment in and of itself, yanno? More and more, I think that people just assume they have all the time in the world.
+1
 

Laila619

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livannie|1401917982|3686610 said:
I didn't purposely not sleep with my husband to trick him into marrying me, it is part of our religion and he wanted to wait too, even though it was hard at times. I was engaged before to someone else and he didn't want to wait and we eventually broke up. I guess a guy proposing depends on the guy. But like Ilander said if you do everything for him just like his mom before you are married he will just think of marriage as a piece of paper. My Dad isn't very religious but he always told me a guy would lose respect for me if I didn't wait till I got married. And maybe it isn't true with all guys but I have always thought my Dad was very smart and always remembered his advice.
If that's true, then about 85-90% of the men in the world don't respect their wives. :naughty:

No really, I will teach/encourage my own daughter to wait, but it's not because I'm worried her husband won't respect her.
 

Laila619

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Maria D|1401911166|3686542 said:
Just to clarify, does the "dating" spoken about in this thread really mean living together?

If it does, I have never understood why some women in long term living-together relationships get all antsy when the guy doesn't want to get married. Why do they get all naggy and clingy? If the situation isn't working for them anymore, why not just move out?
With the couples I am referring to where the men won't propose, they are not living together. They each have their own places.
 

sonnyjane

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amc80|1401904926|3686467 said:
Laila619|1401900317|3686413 said:
The reason I ask is because I have several friends and acquaintances in their early to mid 30s who are accomplished, smart, beautiful, nice, sweet and who have been dating their boyfriends for a long time and who are anxiously waiting on proposals.
I don't thing it's a male issue, I think it's a relationship issue. The couples I know who dated for a long time (before either getting engaged or breaking up) started the relationship without making expectations clear. When DH and I started dating, we had a conversation early on (within the first few dates) that to us, the point of dating is to find someone to marry...not just to have someone to spend time with.

Have your friends had a "come to Jesus" talk with their boyfriends? About where the relationship is going?

My coworker started dating his girlfriend a couple of months before he started working here. I would joke with him about getting engaged and he would always say that it would be several years before he was ready. Well, they got engaged last weekend, on their second anniversary. I think if a guy wants to get married he will propose.
I didn't read all the responses but this is exactly what I wanted to point out. "Waiting on proposals" is silly to me, and we have even seen it on this forum in the LIW section. Obviously if you know you're getting engaged soon and are waiting for the actual proposal surprise that's one thing, but to just wait around expecting a man to propose spontaneously for 6,7, 10 years seems foolish to me on the part of the woman. Like amc said, if a man wants to get married, he'll propose. A woman needs to take fate into her own hands and not be afraid to have those conversations.
 

jaysonsmom

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I feel that it's not men's commitment issues that are causing reduction of people heading to the altar. I think it is due to overall sociatal changes. Women are becoming more financially independent, and no longer rushing to get married so that their husband's can take care of them once they leave their birth families. Since the gals are in no rush to get married, the guys feel less pressure to put a ring on it. Also, in most parts of the world, having babies out of wedlock are no longer a social stigma, so there is no rush to make anyone an "honest woman". Lastly, divorce rates are so high, weddings cost so much....most people just don't se the need to go through the process.
 

Dancing Fire

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livannie|1401915907|3686581 said:
I agree with Ilander. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? That's what I have always heard growing up. It may be old fashioned but I really believe it. Once you give everything to a man, why should he marry you when he already has you? I believe in making them work to get you. Nowadays it seems common for people to live together before marriage and while it may be good to get to know eachother better that way, the guy often seems not to want to get married in those situations. My little brother has been living with his girlfriend for 3 years now and has no plans of marrying anytime soon. My husband and I didn't sleep together at all till our wedding night and we got married one year after we met. There is no wrong or right way of doing it but I think making men wait a little is a good thing.
:lol: ..but what if she can't not wait that long?.. :naughty:
 

kenny

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When a woman wants to marry a man she can propose instead of waiting for him to.
If he says no she can move on.

There. Imaginary problem solved.
Drop traditions when they no longer work.

Women need to step up to the plate and live equality.
 

Sky56

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Laila619|1401910977|3686538 said:
Sky56|1401910592|3686529 said:
Wild mustangs always resist to being roped in. 8) Seriously though, I've seen quite a few instances where the man didn't want to commit to a long-term girlfriend, then after breaking up, very soon marries the next girlfriend.
Sky, I too have seen this. Do you think it was a timing thing, or was the second girl the One, and the first girlfriend just wasn't? Or maybe the second girlfriend made it clear she expected marriage.
Yes, my theory is that the man felt unsure about committing to the long-term girlfriend and happened to fall deep in love with the next one and felt sure about planning a future together.
 

Dancing Fire

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TBH...I hope both of our daughters get marry before they turn 30. In fact I hope they'll give birth to their first child before they turn 30.
 

Maria D

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kenny|1401927543|3686700 said:
When a woman wants to marry a man she can propose instead of waiting for him to.
If he says no she can move on.

There. Imaginary problem solved.
Drop traditions when they no longer work.

Women need to step up to the plate and live equality.
Bingo! I totally agree with Kenny.

Why does the guy get the blame for having a "commitment issue?" I would say that if an adult woman who wants to be married is hanging on year after year to a man who clearly does not, then she's the one with issues. He's living the life he wants. If she wants a different situation she's going to have to find a different guy. Or at least change the status quo with the one she's got. You know the line... "let's see other people."
 

Niel

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kenny|1401927543|3686700 said:
When a woman wants to marry a man she can propose instead of waiting for him to.
If he says no she can move on.

There. Imaginary problem solved.
Drop traditions when they no longer work.

Women need to step up to the plate and live equality.
If it makes you feel better I proposed to my now husband dozens of times. He just wanted to be the one to do it.
 

kenny

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Niel|1401930528|3686731 said:
kenny|1401927543|3686700 said:
When a woman wants to marry a man she can propose instead of waiting for him to.
If he says no she can move on.

There. Imaginary problem solved.
Drop traditions when they no longer work.

Women need to step up to the plate and live equality.
If it makes you feel better I proposed to my now husband dozens of times. He just wanted to be the one to do it.

Oh I feel so much better now.
I was feeling so bad.
I was crying in the corner.

Thanks so much.

:mrgreen:
 

Laila619

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kenny|1401927543|3686700 said:
When a woman wants to marry a man she can propose instead of waiting for him to.
If he says no she can move on.

There. Imaginary problem solved.
Drop traditions when they no longer work.

Women need to step up to the plate and live equality.
But a lot of women wouldn't be happy being the one to propose.
 

kenny

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Laila619|1401931437|3686733 said:
kenny|1401927543|3686700 said:
When a woman wants to marry a man she can propose instead of waiting for him to.
If he says no she can move on.

There. Imaginary problem solved.
Drop traditions when they no longer work.

Women need to step up to the plate and live equality.
But a lot of women wouldn't be happy being the one to propose.

So they'll just have to sit around being passive aggressive.
 

Maria D

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Not happy being the one to propose, not happy just dating....arrrrggghhhh depending on others to make you happy instead of taking responsibility for your own happiness and well-being! Sorry, I just don't get it.
 

Niel

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kenny|1401931311|3686732 said:
Niel|1401930528|3686731 said:
kenny|1401927543|3686700 said:
When a woman wants to marry a man she can propose instead of waiting for him to.
If he says no she can move on.

There. Imaginary problem solved.
Drop traditions when they no longer work.

Women need to step up to the plate and live equality.
If it makes you feel better I proposed to my now husband dozens of times. He just wanted to be the one to do it.

Oh I feel so much better now.
I was feeling so bad.
I was crying in the corner.

Thanks so much.

:mrgreen:
Oh good I was hoping my sharing would result in some snark.
 

kenny

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kenny

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Laila619|1401931437|3686733 said:
But a lot of women wouldn't be happy being the one to propose.
Not ladylike to propose?

Well then those ladies can go back in the corner to their crocheting.
Complaining is not very ladylike either.

Just wait quietly, modestly and demurely.
Work on your figure, your makeup, hair, piano playing, watercoloring, cooking and house cleaning.
If you're lucky maybe some day some real man will pop the question and make you a real woman.

IOW, if you expect men to be men, then women should be women.

If you ask me, both gender expectations seem pretty outdated especially when women are complaining that men are not doing what they expect of them.
 

movie zombie

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mary poppins|1401918018|3686611 said:
........ Why buy the pig when you can get the sausage for free?

so absolutely true! ROFLOL!
 

kenny

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movie zombie|1401933211|3686750 said:
mary poppins|1401918018|3686611 said:
........ Why buy the pig when you can get the sausage for free?

so absolutely true! ROFLOL!
That reminds me of what a friend often said, "Men are PIGS! ... and I'm pigging out!"
 

Laila619

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Kenny,

C'mon, there's nothing wrong with wanting to still be traditional and have a guy propose to you in a sweet, meaningful way. Some traditions are outdated and unnecessary, and some are still nice to keep IMO.
 

kenny

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Laila619|1401933547|3686753 said:
Kenny,

C'mon, there's nothing wrong with wanting to still be traditional and have a guy propose to you in a sweet, meaningful way. Some traditions are outdated and unnecessary, and some are still nice to keep IMO.
Nothing wrong with wanting something.
Expecting it is quite different.
Complaining that you don't get it is quite quite different.

IMO when you refuse to be proactive and cling to the old way of the man being the only one who can pop the question then you give up the right to complain when he takes his time, or doesn't.

If you want the old system then just sit in the parlor and crochet, quietly and demurely.
Oh, but could you bring me another beer first, Sugar Pie?
 

Indylady

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kenny|1401927543|3686700 said:
When a woman wants to marry a man she can propose instead of waiting for him to.
If he says no she can move on.

There. Imaginary problem solved.
Drop traditions when they no longer work.

Women need to step up to the plate and live equality.
+1

Laila--I see where you are coming from. Some traditions are fun or otherwise meaningful--sure. Personally, though, it doesn't make sense to me to complain about 'waiting' if I could change that situation myself. I think a proposal or frank discussion of marriage initiated of a woman to be as romantic as one initiated by a man.
 

Maria D

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Laila619|1401933547|3686753 said:
Kenny,

C'mon, there's nothing wrong with wanting to still be traditional and have a guy propose to you in a sweet, meaningful way. Some traditions are outdated and unnecessary, and some are still nice to keep IMO.
What's wrong with a guy not wishing to follow this tradition? Does that make him a bad guy? To me it sounds like you're bashing the guy when it's really the woman with the problem.
 

Laila619

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Maria D|1401935147|3686764 said:
Laila619|1401933547|3686753 said:
Kenny,

C'mon, there's nothing wrong with wanting to still be traditional and have a guy propose to you in a sweet, meaningful way. Some traditions are outdated and unnecessary, and some are still nice to keep IMO.
What's wrong with a guy not wishing to follow this tradition? Does that make him a bad guy? To me it sounds like you're bashing the guy when it's really the woman with the problem.
No, I'm not bashing any guy. The couple can do whatever works for them, and if the woman wants to propose, that's an option. I'm just trying to understand why the beautiful and smart ladies I know seem to have long-term boyfriends who are not interested in getting married.
 
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