Do today's men have commitment issues?

[Laila619]

Obviously, this doesn't apply to ALL men and it's a generalization, but do you think a lot of men today have trouble committing (i.e. proposing/getting married)? The reason I ask is because I have several friends and acquaintances in their early to mid 30s who are accomplished, smart, beautiful, nice, sweet and who have been dating their boyfriends for a long time and who are anxiously waiting on proposals. Dare I say it, these ladies are total catches and the guys would be LUCKY to have them for their wives, but for whatever reason(s), the guys do not seem interested in moving forward, even though they are all aged 34 or older and are employed with good paying jobs. What do you think? Am I imagining it or does this seem to be the case with a lot of men these days? And if so, what do you think is the reason? I do know the median age at first marriage has gone up, and a lot of couples are choosing to cohabit but not marry.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,


I had this conversation with my niece a few years ago. She claims men won't commit, particularly in England where she grew up and had serious relationships. She moved to California and finds the attitude very different here. She likes the men better here.

I don't know where you live. People do seem to wait to marry, but I don't see it as not being able to commit.

Annette

 

[Laila619]

Hi,


I had this conversation with my niece a few years ago. She claims men won't commit, particularly in England where she grew up and had serious relationships. She moved to California and finds the attitude very different here. She likes the men better here.

I don't know where you live. People do seem to wait to marry, but I don't see it as not being able to commit.

Annette

I have heard that about dating in England, that very few couples get married. Interesting, I wonder why?

 

[CJ2008]

All I know is - and it's a little bit off topic, but related, at the same (but if it ends up being too off topic Laila I'll start a new thread)...what I do see all around me - women have a much more difficult time aging than men. I always "heard" this and always found "older" or salt/pepper hair men attractive, and heard all the "he left her for a younger woman" but I am now really realizing, because I'm experiencing it first hand, it's like men get better looking with age, while women get less. This really hit me the other day when in a movie (I think it was Knocked Up) one of the characters said that very thing "he gets better looking while I get less good looking." It probably sounds really silly that I was so shocked/touched by this since it's probably general knowledge...but like hearing it in a movie really freaked me out.

It's really sad all on its own, but if it's true that men are waiting even longer (and I have to ask, once we start "waiting" how does that affect the relationship, and our self esteem? part of me is thinking, why is it that we have to wait for them to ask? (as romantic as it is to be asked...) and will make it much much more difficult for women to relax and feel comfortable and not anxious about waiting to get married. It just adds to the pressure.

 

[amc80]

The reason I ask is because I have several friends and acquaintances in their early to mid 30s who are accomplished, smart, beautiful, nice, sweet and who have been dating their boyfriends for a long time and who are anxiously waiting on proposals.

I don't thing it's a male issue, I think it's a relationship issue. The couples I know who dated for a long time (before either getting engaged or breaking up) started the relationship without making expectations clear. When DH and I started dating, we had a conversation early on (within the first few dates) that to us, the point of dating is to find someone to marry...not just to have someone to spend time with.

Have your friends had a "come to Jesus" talk with their boyfriends? About where the relationship is going?

My coworker started dating his girlfriend a couple of months before he started working here. I would joke with him about getting engaged and he would always say that it would be several years before he was ready. Well, they got engaged last weekend, on their second anniversary. I think if a guy wants to get married he will propose.

 

[Laila619]

All I know is - and it's a little bit off topic, but related, at the same (but if it ends up being too off topic Laila I'll start a new thread)...what I do see all around me - women have a much more difficult time aging than men. I always "heard" this and always found "older" or salt/pepper hair men attractive, and heard all the "he left her for a younger woman" but I am now really realizing, because I'm experiencing it first hand, it's like men get better looking with age, while women get less. This really hit me the other day when in a movie (I think it was Knocked Up) one of the characters said that very thing "he gets better looking while I get less good looking." It probably sounds really silly that I was so shocked/touched by this since it's probably general knowledge...but like hearing it in a movie really freaked me out.

It's really sad all on its own, but if it's true that men are waiting even longer (and I have to ask, once we start "waiting" how does that affect the relationship, and our self esteem? part of me is thinking, why is it that we have to wait for them to ask? (as romantic as it is to be asked...) and will make it much much more difficult for women to relax and feel comfortable and not anxious about waiting to get married. It just adds to the pressure.

Hmm, interesting points. So you believe men tend to age better and thus have more options for romantic relationships than women. That could definitely be a big part of it.

 

[kenny]

You could say I have 'commitment issues'.

My SO and I have been monogamous and living together for 12 years and I don't want to marry.
I doubt I ever will.

Marriage just doesn't hold much meaning for me. YMMV.
Then there's that 50% chance you'll divorce often forfeiting wealth.

Perhaps assuming that every man wants marriage is 'the issue' many women have.

 

[OoohShiny]

As a merry Englander who fits broadly into the aforementioned categories (although my pay could be somewhat higher... lol) I think that there is less societal pressure to marry over here now - partly due to so many people having children out of wedlock but in a stable relationship and being perfectly happy with the arrangement (and it no longer being seen as 'taboo'), and perhaps partly because we seem to have moved from a society where marriage was the done thing, to a society where people are realising that many married too young or to the wrong person and are subsequently getting divorced left, right and centre, so I guess a lot of people are thinking 'why bother if we're just going to possible break up in the future? Let's see how it goes before we commit 110%'.

Perhaps it's a generational thing - in the olden days you married a nice girl from the village, moved into a cottage down the road and lived and worked in the same area for the whole of your life, assuming the job you had didn't undergo a major shift to industrialisation and shed the manual labour element, forcing you to re-locate to a big city or even another continent. Now, with a generation who was brought up through the 'go get 'em' 1980s, and who have seen the massive incorporation of the world wide web into everyday life to a ridiculous extent, suddenly it feels like the whole world can be our oyster if we go out there and get it, so why 'settle for' someone when you could perhaps do better if you keep on looking or moved away elsewhere?

Added to this is the fact that there are no longer 'jobs for life' and people don't really know where they will be or what they will be doing 10 or even five years from now, so reaching a position of 'Right, this is it, I can settle down now because I have the rest of my life pretty much sorted" is a lot harder for men, and women are now more career-oriented and don't want babies so early, which further delays the settling down decision.


These are perhaps cynical views, I admit, but the world is a lot smaller place now and it seems that an individual's 'catchment area' is now, potentially, the entire world, rather than a small radius of perhaps 20 miles around where they grew up! That's not to say that every lady in her early 30s and currently awaiting a proposal on tenterhooks should be wary of their other half deciding to jump ship and move on elsewhere, but it may be the view of some men, Sometimes it may take the threat or even the actual action of breaking up to make men realise what they have and stand to lose, although it may be a risky manoeuvre if they go 'ok then, thanks for the good times, I'm off down the pub'!


Ultimately I guess it just boils down to the fact that, in many cases, the fairer sex feels a 'body clock' ticking away that gets a lot louder once they reach their 30s due to increasing potential difficulties with bearing children as they get older, and a stronger perceived need to settle down, whereas men are pretty much just boys in a bigger body and would happily just get bigger toys as they get older, and continue to live a child's life of little worry or commitment lol

 

[Laila619]

The reason I ask is because I have several friends and acquaintances in their early to mid 30s who are accomplished, smart, beautiful, nice, sweet and who have been dating their boyfriends for a long time and who are anxiously waiting on proposals.

I don't thing it's a male issue, I think it's a relationship issue. The couples I know who dated for a long time (before either getting engaged or breaking up) started the relationship without making expectations clear. When DH and I started dating, we had a conversation early on (within the first few dates) that to us, the point of dating is to find someone to marry...not just to have someone to spend time with.

Have your friends had a "come to Jesus" talk with their boyfriends? About where the relationship is going?

My coworker started dating his girlfriend a couple of months before he started working here. I would joke with him about getting engaged and he would always say that it would be several years before he was ready. Well, they got engaged last weekend, on their second anniversary. I think if a guy wants to get married he will propose.

Yes, they have had several talks. In most cases, they've reported that the guy said "it will happen, don't worry" and to "be patient."

The one acquaintance I know of has been with her boyfriend for 4.5 years. She recently turned 30 (he is 37), and I was so sure he would finally propose on her big milestone birthday, but nothing.

 

[Laila619]

Ultimately I guess it just boils down to the fact that, in many cases, the fairer sex feels a 'body clock' ticking away that gets a lot louder once they reach their 30s due to increasing potential difficulties with bearing children as they get older, and a stronger perceived need to settle down, whereas men are pretty much just boys in a bigger body and would happily just get bigger toys as they get older, and continue to live a child's life of little worry or commitment lol

Yes, I think the woman's biological clock plays a large part in why women seemingly are ready before men are to get married.

 

[amc80]

The reason I ask is because I have several friends and acquaintances in their early to mid 30s who are accomplished, smart, beautiful, nice, sweet and who have been dating their boyfriends for a long time and who are anxiously waiting on proposals.

I don't thing it's a male issue, I think it's a relationship issue. The couples I know who dated for a long time (before either getting engaged or breaking up) started the relationship without making expectations clear. When DH and I started dating, we had a conversation early on (within the first few dates) that to us, the point of dating is to find someone to marry...not just to have someone to spend time with.

Have your friends had a "come to Jesus" talk with their boyfriends? About where the relationship is going?

My coworker started dating his girlfriend a couple of months before he started working here. I would joke with him about getting engaged and he would always say that it would be several years before he was ready. Well, they got engaged last weekend, on their second anniversary. I think if a guy wants to get married he will propose.

Yes, they have had several talks. In most cases, they've reported that the guy said "it will happen, don't worry" and to "be patient."

The one acquaintance I know of has been with her boyfriend for 4.5 years. She recently turned 30 (he is 37), and I was so sure he would finally propose on her big milestone birthday, but nothing.

Are your friends going to wait forever? Or after a certain time are they going to move on?

 

[packrat]

Funny to see this today. Last night at play practice one of the women there was talking about her boyfriend-they've been together four or four and a half years. He tells her to just be patient, and he wants to wait until the "time is right". She doesn't know what that means or when that will be. They did go looking last month but didn't buy b/c she wants him to pick it out himself, but go by the things she likes.

I don't get it, personally.

 

[Laila619]

The reason I ask is because I have several friends and acquaintances in their early to mid 30s who are accomplished, smart, beautiful, nice, sweet and who have been dating their boyfriends for a long time and who are anxiously waiting on proposals.

I don't thing it's a male issue, I think it's a relationship issue. The couples I know who dated for a long time (before either getting engaged or breaking up) started the relationship without making expectations clear. When DH and I started dating, we had a conversation early on (within the first few dates) that to us, the point of dating is to find someone to marry...not just to have someone to spend time with.

Have your friends had a "come to Jesus" talk with their boyfriends? About where the relationship is going?

My coworker started dating his girlfriend a couple of months before he started working here. I would joke with him about getting engaged and he would always say that it would be several years before he was ready. Well, they got engaged last weekend, on their second anniversary. I think if a guy wants to get married he will propose.

Yes, they have had several talks. In most cases, they've reported that the guy said "it will happen, don't worry" and to "be patient."

The one acquaintance I know of has been with her boyfriend for 4.5 years. She recently turned 30 (he is 37), and I was so sure he would finally propose on her big milestone birthday, but nothing.

Are your friends going to wait forever? Or after a certain time are they going to move on?

I have no idea; some of these acquaintances I'm not super close with so I don't want to pry too much because I know how much I hated when people would ask me "When are you two getting engaged?" I am also not a patient person who would wait for long. I started getting restless when my DH hadn't proposed at the one year mark, lol.

 

[Niel]

I've read that men are more likely now to wait to get married until they are financially and mentally prepared to start a family. Maybe because people live together now, but I've read men don't get married just to stay a married couple sans kids. They wait till they want a "family." And have stability.

 

[Sky56]

no more than before

 

[Laila619]

I've read that men are more likely now to wait to get married until they are financially and mentally prepared to start a family. Maybe because people live together now, but I've read men don't get married just to stay a married couple sans kids. They wait till they want a "family." And have stability.

Yeah, but when will that be? If a guy is 37 or 38 and still not ready, will he ever be? And a woman's fertility goes down drastically after 35, so if a man isn't ready until he's, say, 40, then he will have to find a much younger woman if he wants two or three kids, right?

 

[aviastar]

Oh, I have a soapbox when it comes to modern dating! But essentially I do think it drills down into what has been expressed already: Expectations. And even more specifically, expectations of change.

Things, situations, and people do change and if you are up for just going along for the ride, great. But the question, to my mind, is, 'Does the current state of affairs make you happy?' If the answer is no you cannot make your decisions based on an expectation of change from the current state.

 

[iLander]

If a man wants to marry a woman, and he knows he will lose her if he doesn't, then nothing will stop him from proposing.

But if he's got someone making him dinner, cleaning his place, giving him plenty of sex, helping with rent, and she doesn't REALLY ask for anything in return . . . well, it's like Mommy, only better. Why bother changing anything? Ever? And what if someone better comes along? . . . might want to keep options open . . .



Dump these losers while you're still young.

 

[Sky56]

Wild mustangs always resist to being roped in. Seriously though, I've seen quite a few instances where the man didn't want to commit to a long-term girlfriend, then after breaking up, very soon marries the next girlfriend.

kenny is right about the divorce rate even from a personal perspective - More than 50% of the weddings I have attended, divorce ensued, sometimes fairly rapidly such as 2 years or less.

 

[iLander]

Wild mustangs always resist to being roped in. Seriously though, I've seen quite a few instances where the man didn't want to commit to a long-term girlfriend, then after breaking up, very soon marries the next girlfriend.

kenny is right about the divorce rate even from a personal perspective - More than 50% of the weddings I have attended, divorce ensued, sometimes fairly rapidly such as 2 years or less.

I have seen this many times, too. Second girlfriend was very clear from day 1.

 

[Laila619]

If a man wants to marry a woman, and he knows he will lose her if he doesn't, then nothing will stop him from proposing.

But if he's got someone making him dinner, cleaning his place, giving him plenty of sex, helping with rent, and she doesn't REALLY ask for anything in return . . . well, it's like Mommy, only better. Why bother changing anything? Ever? And what if someone better comes along? . . . might want to keep options open . . .



Dump these losers while you're still young.

True, iLander. I think in some cases, women spoil men and make it so there's no need to get married.

 

[Laila619]

Wild mustangs always resist to being roped in. Seriously though, I've seen quite a few instances where the man didn't want to commit to a long-term girlfriend, then after breaking up, very soon marries the next girlfriend.

Sky, I too have seen this. Do you think it was a timing thing, or was the second girl the One, and the first girlfriend just wasn't? Or maybe the second girlfriend made it clear she expected marriage.

 

[Maria D]

Just to clarify, does the "dating" spoken about in this thread really mean living together?

If it does, I have never understood why some women in long term living-together relationships get all antsy when the guy doesn't want to get married. Why do they get all naggy and clingy? If the situation isn't working for them anymore, why not just move out?

 

[Niel]

Just to clarify, does the "dating" spoken about in this thread really mean living together?

If it does, I have never understood why some women in long term living-together relationships get all antsy when the guy doesn't want to get married. Why do they get all naggy and clingy? If the situation isn't working for them anymore, why not just move out?

This sounds a bit negative. Is there some reason it bothers you? Just wondering.

 

[Maria D]

good question - I guess it offends my feminist sensibilities I don't like the fact that there are good women out there giving all their power away to anyone, much less a guy who doesn't want them as much as they want him.

 

[livannie]

I agree with Ilander. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? That's what I have always heard growing up. It may be old fashioned but I really believe it. Once you give everything to a man, why should he marry you when he already has you? I believe in making them work to get you. Nowadays it seems common for people to live together before marriage and while it may be good to get to know eachother better that way, the guy often seems not to want to get married in those situations. My little brother has been living with his girlfriend for 3 years now and has no plans of marrying anytime soon. My husband and I didn't sleep together at all till our wedding night and we got married one year after we met. There is no wrong or right way of doing it but I think making men wait a little is a good thing.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

There is also a pressure on the man to "provide a good manner of living" to his family, even today. That means a house, mortgage, paying off student loans, etc, not to mention the wedding itself, which the couple will probably pay for themselves. Many men simply don't feel ready for marriage before that. Not too long ago, however, many married couples were perfectly happy to have a much cheaper wedding and engagement ring, to live in a small rented apartment, etc. My parents' first apartment was decorated in Goodwill's finest and they didn't have a car. They were happy together, in love and wanted to commit. Today, the advice would be to get your life together before getting married.

 

[Lady_Disdain]

I agree with Ilander. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? That's what I have always heard growing up. It may be old fashioned but I really believe it. Once you give everything to a man, why should he marry you when he already has you? I believe in making them work to get you. Nowadays it seems common for people to live together before marriage and while it may be good to get to know eachother better that way, the guy often seems not to want to get married in those situations. My little brother has been living with his girlfriend for 3 years now and has no plans of marrying anytime soon. My husband and I didn't sleep together at all till our wedding night and we got married one year after we met. There is no wrong or right way of doing it but I think making men wait a little is a good thing.

Sorry for the double post.

I dislike this view. Marriage should not be something that women want desperately and men have to be roped into reluctantly. You could say the same thing: why should a woman want to get married, when she can support herself, have sex without being pressured to marry, etc. If my husband had only wanted to marry me to finally have sex, I would not have married him at all.

 

[Niel]

I agree with Ilander. Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free? That's what I have always heard growing up. It may be old fashioned but I really believe it. Once you give everything to a man, why should he marry you when he already has you? I believe in making them work to get you. Nowadays it seems common for people to live together before marriage and while it may be good to get to know eachother better that way, the guy often seems not to want to get married in those situations. My little brother has been living with his girlfriend for 3 years now and has no plans of marrying anytime soon. My husband and I didn't sleep together at all till our wedding night and we got married one year after we met. There is no wrong or right way of doing it but I think making men wait a little is a good thing.

I think that's playing games. And I don't like it myself. I am sure I have a more modern approach to relationships but "make them work" seems like a manipulative way to look at love and marriage.

 

[Laila619]

Just to clarify, does the "dating" spoken about in this thread really mean living together?

If it does, I have never understood why some women in long term living-together relationships get all antsy when the guy doesn't want to get married. Why do they get all naggy and clingy? If the situation isn't working for them anymore, why not just move out?

I would imagine because it's hard to leave someone you love very much and have invested a lot of time with.