shape
carat
color
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Do our eyes adapt to color variation in diamonds?

xerofactor

Rough_Rock
Joined
Sep 20, 2015
Messages
12
I find that if I'm looking at, say, G color stones online for quite some time, and then I begin looking at only H color stones, I at first and almost immediately have a feeling of "Ugh, it's so yellow."

But when I leave my screen and come back for even only 5 or 10 minutes, suddenly those yellowish Hs seem as white as they probably are in real life.

Does anyone else experience this? Is there a name of this phenomenon?

I'm just curious and pontificating, I guess.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Apr 30, 2005
Messages
30,734
Oh man.
This is a huge can of worms.
... so many variables.

Few people bother to white balance their cameras to the light source used.
PS is FULL of peoples pics of M-colored diamonds that look white or even blue and D-colored diamonds that look yellow and brown.
Next there's the problem of the broken-psychology of photography ... as in "cameras don't lie". :roll:

Monitors themselves vary in color accuracy.
The human eye-brain system DOES adjust and compensate and mess with your perception of color.

The bottom line is ...
Don't believe your eyes!!!!!!
Don't believe ANYTHING but the color grade assigned by GIA or AGS. PERIOD!

It drives me batty when someone posts a pic of their P-colored diamond and everyone posts how white it looks. :whistle:
If I was admin those thread would vanish faster than religious or political threads.
 

Dancing Fire

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Messages
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kenny|1443056272|3931082 said:
Don't believe ANYTHING but the color grade assigned by GIA or AGS. PERIOD!

It drives me batty when someone posts a pic of their P-colored diamond and everyone posts how white it looks. :whistle:
If I was admin those thread would vanish faster than religious or political threads.
That is a rare color.
 

xerofactor

Rough_Rock
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Messages
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Crap. As an amateur film buff, I'm a little embarassed I didn't even think of white balance. I assume James Allen is properly WBing, because there's definitely disparity between the color grades. But in terms of the eyes though, I can look at one diamond after looking a bunch of D-E-F, come back to it 20 minutes later, and my mind forgets the comparison and it just looks white to me.
 

kenny

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xerofactor|1443057983|3931098 said:
Crap. As an amateur film buff, I'm a little embarassed I didn't even think of white balance. I assume James Allen is properly WBing, because there's definitely disparity between the color grades. But in terms of the eyes though, I can look at one diamond after looking a bunch of D-E-F, come back to it 20 minutes later, and my mind forgets the comparison and it just looks white to me.

As I said ... ignore everything coming from your eyes.
They eye-brain system (even in person, is a big liar).
This is nearly-impossible as we are our brains' bitches ... big liars though they are.

Pay attention ONLY to color grades assigned by GIA or AGS.

This is nearly-impossible to do ... but do it.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
30,734
Dancing Fire|1443057763|3931096 said:
kenny|1443056272|3931082 said:
Don't believe ANYTHING but the color grade assigned by GIA or AGS. PERIOD!

It drives me batty when someone posts a pic of their P-colored diamond and everyone posts how white it looks. :whistle:
If I was admin those thread would vanish faster than religious or political threads.
That is a rare color.


Uhm, and what does that have to do with the price of eggs or iPads in Ethiopia?
 

AdaBeta27

Brilliant_Rock
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Messages
965
My L/M diamond that was recut by Brian Gavin does indeed face up very "white" under some circumstances and pale yellow under others. I didn't post any deceptive photos of it. It's apparent color varies with the surroundings and the type of lighting.

I have seen my H look yellowish indoors, at night, under incandescent lights. But it's never looked yellowish under any other circumstances.

But yes, if you (OP) are talking about looking at photos on PS, not looking at correctly graded diamonds in person, there are many factors other than color in the stone that can make it look white or yellow on a computer screen. Or make it look pink, blue, green, brown, gray, or any other color. lol.
 

kenny

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AdaBeta27|1443058842|3931105 said:
My L/M diamond that was recut by Brian Gavin does indeed face up very "white" under some circumstances and pale yellow under others. I didn't post any deceptive photos of it. It's apparent color varies with the surroundings and the type of lighting.

I have seen my H look yellowish indoors, at night, under incandescent lights. But it's never looked yellowish under any other circumstances.

But yes, if you (OP) are talking about looking at photos on PS, not looking at correctly graded diamonds in person, there are many factors other than color in the stone that can make it look white or yellow on a computer screen. Or make it look pink, blue, green, brown, gray, or any other color. lol.


Blah Blah Blah.

Again, all that matters is the color grades from AGS or GIA.

And, yes good cut makes a difference because you judge that from a top view while the reputable labs grade color from a bottom view.
 

nala

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kenny|1443056272|3931082 said:
Oh man.
This is a huge can of worms.
... so many variables.

Few people bother to white balance their cameras to the light source used.
PS is FULL of peoples pics of M-colored diamonds that look white or even blue and D-colored diamonds that look yellow and brown.
Next there's the problem of the broken-psychology of photography ... as in "cameras don't lie". :roll:

Monitors themselves vary in color accuracy.
The human eye-brain system DOES adjust and compensate and mess with your perception of color.

The bottom line is ...
Don't believe your eyes!!!!!!
Don't believe ANYTHING but the color grade assigned by GIA or AGS. PERIOD!

It drives me batty when someone posts a pic of their P-colored diamond and everyone posts how white it looks. :whistle:
If I was admin those thread would vanish faster than religious or political threads.
Why wouldn't you believe your eyes? Your eyes will be looking at your diamond, not anyone else. And if you don't want to trust your eyes, why trust GIA's? Why are they infallible? Their conditions, you might say, have more controlled lighting, but will that lighting be there wherever you are? Will that certificate change your perception of color? Are GIA gemologists tested for their ability to identify color grade under all lighting conditions?
 

kenny

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I've already explained.
 

decisively_unsure

Shiny_Rock
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Messages
146
Absolutely our eyes adapt. Having "lived with" D and E colour stones for around 8yrs now I can easily see colour. Photos easily lie though. ;-)
 

AdaBeta27

Brilliant_Rock
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kenny|1443061059|3931122 said:
Blah Blah Blah.

Again, all that matters is the color grades from AGS or GIA.

And, yes good cut makes a difference because you judge that from a top view while the reputable labs grade color from a bottom view.

Seriously? Who doesn't already know all of that?!

You are an exceptionally rude person, and you are snip and rude and condescending to other participants all too often. Perhaps you need another break from the rigors of Pricescope.

You insinuated that people post photos of lower colored stones on PS that look "white" in the photos, and insinuated that IT'S ALL DUE TO INCORRECT WHITE BALANCE. I just told you that these stones CAN AND OFTEN DO face up "white", darned white for their color grades, in real life situations! I was correcting your incorrect generalization that it's all smoke and mirrors with the white balance or computer monitor settings. I know as well as you that for grading purposes it's face down, and that white balance and (as I stated) ANY NUMBER OF REASONS OTHER THAN ACTUAL COLOR may make the stone may appear as some color it isn't on a computer screen.
Looks "white" on screen can also happen because it also looks mighty "white" at times in real life. That was my point.
 

Rockdiamond

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Hi xerofactor
The manner in which we perceive color is definitely affected by comparison.
So, if one was looking at a lot of K color diamonds, and immediately looks at a G, it will look mighty white.
Conversely if you were looking at a lot of D color stones the same G will look a bit tinted, if you look at it compared to the D's.
Add to this the surrounding color and lighting - which will affect how we perceive color, and even time of day and color perception is not static if we're looking at diamonds first hand.

White balance is of course a HUGE consideration for photography. One potential solution is to stick with one setting, regardless of the color of the diamond- which in theory, would level the playing field.
Personally, I find that different colors and cuts react differently to the camera, so I am not "fixed" on one WB- but likely the sites using a fixed setup are setting and forgetting the WB.

But even allowing for differences in lighting environment and comparison, there's MANY cases of two stones getting the same GIA color grade yet appearing to face up as a different color. You can notice this on Virtual Diamond sites with pictures.
There's a lot of reasons for this- colorless stones are graded from the back. Two diamonds that are identical in color from behind can look totally different from the top.
That's why your eyes ARE the final arbiter.
If you're looking at two stones with an identical color grade, you many notice differences- and these differences can affect value.
Some diamonds graded M look like canaries, others look only slightly off white.
 

ericad

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And who do we trust when we ask GIA (or AGS) for a re-check and they change the grade lol? Do I trust the first GIA grade or the second one?

I don't think the OP was suggesting that one trust his eyes IN LIEU of a lab report. Seems to me, the OP is wondering why he can look at the same image as part of a comparison and see the warmth, then later look at the same image on the same computer individually (when not comparing to whiter stones) and not see the warmth. That question has nothing to do with lab reports.

This is no different than doing the same in person. If I look at a J next to a D and a G, it will look warm. A few hours later, if I pull out the J by itself with no other stones around, it may look much whiter to me. We see people say this time and again on PS - that you won't see as much color unless it's sitting right next to a colorless stone, etc.

In that scenario the lab report hasn't changed, the diamond hasn't changed, the viewing conditions haven't changed, nor have the eyeballs changed. Yet one's perception can completely change. I think THIS was the point of the OP's question, unless I'm completely confused.

And as others have pointed out, no two J's or M's will necessarily look the same face up, so the lab report will help ascertain certain facts about a stone (dimensions and fluorescence, for example), combined with some level of opinions about a stone (color and clarity) but ultimately it IS THE EYES that decide a diamond's beauty. Two M's could look vastly different because one has yellow toned body color and the other brown. Which is more beautiful? Depends on who is looking at it, right? That goes way beyond a lab report.
 

gr8leo87

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Colors on anywhere other than real life are only good for comparison that too only if those photos were taken in same lighting conditions and camera settings. You can't tell colors in the Cape range on the screens. The reason H looks yellower after viewing lots of G's is because of your photographic memory. Your mind is comparing Hs to Gs. After a while it's a fresh memory. That's why Hs appear white too.. Because.. Well its not yellow.

Many suppliers also write a disclaimer that photos are for inclusion reference only. The reason is that videos and photo colors are not always true to life. With diamonds a slight yellow tint will make a D color appear like M.
 

Rockdiamond

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gr8leo87 said:
Colors on anywhere other than real life are only good for comparison that too only if those photos were taken in same lighting conditions and camera settings. You can't tell colors in the Cape range on the screens. The reason H looks yellower after viewing lots of G's is because of your photographic memory. Your mind is comparing Hs to Gs. After a while it's a fresh memory. That's why Hs appear white too.. Because.. Well its not yellow.

Many suppliers also write a disclaimer that photos are for inclusion reference only. The reason is that videos and photo colors are not always true to life. With diamonds a slight yellow tint will make a D color appear like M.

This is an interesting point leo
I agree- and it translates to real life.
I'd say that color grading colors L, down to U-V is far more difficult than grading D-J
When I say difficult- that is to say: predicting what GIA will grade a diamond.
The faint yellow diamonds are difficult to grade or photograph because stones like this seem to change color based on viewing environment more than colorless stones.
 

WinkHPD

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kenny|1443058692|3931102 said:
xerofactor|1443057983|3931098 said:
Crap. As an amateur film buff, I'm a little embarassed I didn't even think of white balance. I assume James Allen is properly WBing, because there's definitely disparity between the color grades. But in terms of the eyes though, I can look at one diamond after looking a bunch of D-E-F, come back to it 20 minutes later, and my mind forgets the comparison and it just looks white to me.

As I said ... ignore everything coming from your eyes.
They eye-brain system (even in person, is a big liar).
This is nearly-impossible as we are our brains' bitches ... big liars though they are.

Pay attention ONLY to color grades assigned by GIA or AGS.

This is nearly-impossible to do ... but do it.

Okay, I will bite.

Why?

I admit to being an equal color loving kind of a guy and have sold a few of those rare P colored diamonds, along with many more Ms and Ns. I also admit to LOVING the rich warm buttery flavors of those diamonds.

I also love the Ds, Es and F's at the other end of the spectrum.

Basically, I LOVE SPARKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think color and clarity are GROSSLY over rated. Why should I care too much about them when it is the
CUTTING that releases the beauty?

Wink
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
30,734
Wink|1443135519|3931448 said:
kenny|1443058692|3931102 said:
xerofactor|1443057983|3931098 said:
Crap. As an amateur film buff, I'm a little embarassed I didn't even think of white balance. I assume James Allen is properly WBing, because there's definitely disparity between the color grades. But in terms of the eyes though, I can look at one diamond after looking a bunch of D-E-F, come back to it 20 minutes later, and my mind forgets the comparison and it just looks white to me.

As I said ... ignore everything coming from your eyes.
They eye-brain system (even in person, is a big liar).
This is nearly-impossible as we are our brains' bitches ... big liars though they are.

Pay attention ONLY to color grades assigned by GIA or AGS.

This is nearly-impossible to do ... but do it.

Okay, I will bite.

Why?

I admit to being an equal color loving kind of a guy and have sold a few of those rare P colored diamonds, along with many more Ms and Ns. I also admit to LOVING the rich warm buttery flavors of those diamonds.

I also love the Ds, Es and F's at the other end of the spectrum.

Basically, I LOVE SPARKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think color and clarity are GROSSLY over rated. Why should I care too much about them when it is the
CUTTING that releases the beauty?

Wink

No tricks here.
I'm referring to diamond color, nothing more.
Not cut, not sparkle, not clarity, not what's anyone thinks is most important.
I'm talking about people judging color (unfortunately) from today's typical online pics.
The color grade from GIA/AGS is how you determine what the color IS.
Go out and view them in person to calibrate your eyeballs to their standards, see what the color grades do to the price, and thereby discover your color comfort zone.

Cameras, computers, and monitors all lie, so be smart, be skeptical about what you see.
Even just the eye-brain system LIVE is not reliable so be smart, be skeptical about what you see.

Let me repeat:
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color.
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color.
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color.

If this seems rude, oh well ... it's true.
Clearly it conflicts with how many PS posters think, act, post, and emote about diamond color grades.
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
Trade
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Messages
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kenny|1443143358|3931498 said:
Wink|1443135519|3931448 said:
kenny|1443058692|3931102 said:
xerofactor|1443057983|3931098 said:
Crap. As an amateur film buff, I'm a little embarassed I didn't even think of white balance. I assume James Allen is properly WBing, because there's definitely disparity between the color grades. But in terms of the eyes though, I can look at one diamond after looking a bunch of D-E-F, come back to it 20 minutes later, and my mind forgets the comparison and it just looks white to me.

As I said ... ignore everything coming from your eyes.
They eye-brain system (even in person, is a big liar).
This is nearly-impossible as we are our brains' bitches ... big liars though they are.

Pay attention ONLY to color grades assigned by GIA or AGS.

This is nearly-impossible to do ... but do it.

Okay, I will bite.

Why?

I admit to being an equal color loving kind of a guy and have sold a few of those rare P colored diamonds, along with many more Ms and Ns. I also admit to LOVING the rich warm buttery flavors of those diamonds.

I also love the Ds, Es and F's at the other end of the spectrum.

Basically, I LOVE SPARKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think color and clarity are GROSSLY over rated. Why should I care too much about them when it is the
CUTTING that releases the beauty?

Wink

No tricks here.
I'm referring to diamond color, nothing more.
Not cut, not sparkle, not clarity, not what's anyone thinks is most important.
I'm talking about people judging color (unfortunately) from today's typical online pics.
The color grade from GIA/AGS is how you determine what the color IS.
Go out and view them in person to calibrate your eyeballs to their standards, see what the color grades do to the price, and thereby discover your color comfort zone.

Cameras, computers, and monitors all lie, so be smart, be skeptical about what you see.
Even just the eye-brain system LIVE is not reliable so be smart, be skeptical about what you see.

Let me repeat: Let me repeat also:
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color. If you love it, the color does not matter.
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color. If you love it, the color does not matter.
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color. If you love it, the color does not matter.

If this seems rude, oh well ... it's true.
Clearly it conflicts with how many PS posters think, act, post, and emote about diamond color grades.

Cut is King.

Just my opinion of course.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Aug 4, 2008
Messages
12,079
The lab color grade of a diamond is a material color grade not the color of the light return.(until you hit fancy colors)
There is a lot of confusion about that.
It is also why I have a big problem with vendors saying it faces up like a higher color.
It may face up white depending on lighting due to the cut but that does not change the color grade which is what sets the value.
The disconnect between the lab color grade and what your eyes actually see in the real world is what Kenny is talking about.
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
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Messages
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Karl,

My question to the trade, and to the public:

Why should one color grade make so much difference in price when it is not visible to most people. Even an AGS 0 cut grade can have several flavors that are clearly visible to the human eye, yet little affect on pricing.

Seems backwards to me.

Wink
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Messages
30,734
Wink|1443151024|3931552 said:
kenny|1443143358|3931498 said:
Wink|1443135519|3931448 said:
kenny|1443058692|3931102 said:
xerofactor|1443057983|3931098 said:
Crap. As an amateur film buff, I'm a little embarassed I didn't even think of white balance. I assume James Allen is properly WBing, because there's definitely disparity between the color grades. But in terms of the eyes though, I can look at one diamond after looking a bunch of D-E-F, come back to it 20 minutes later, and my mind forgets the comparison and it just looks white to me.

As I said ... ignore everything coming from your eyes.
They eye-brain system (even in person, is a big liar).
This is nearly-impossible as we are our brains' bitches ... big liars though they are.

Pay attention ONLY to color grades assigned by GIA or AGS.

This is nearly-impossible to do ... but do it.

Okay, I will bite.

Why?

I admit to being an equal color loving kind of a guy and have sold a few of those rare P colored diamonds, along with many more Ms and Ns. I also admit to LOVING the rich warm buttery flavors of those diamonds.

I also love the Ds, Es and F's at the other end of the spectrum.

Basically, I LOVE SPARKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think color and clarity are GROSSLY over rated. Why should I care too much about them when it is the
CUTTING that releases the beauty?

Wink

No tricks here.
I'm referring to diamond color, nothing more.
Not cut, not sparkle, not clarity, not what's anyone thinks is most important.
I'm talking about people judging color (unfortunately) from today's typical online pics.
The color grade from GIA/AGS is how you determine what the color IS.
Go out and view them in person to calibrate your eyeballs to their standards, see what the color grades do to the price, and thereby discover your color comfort zone.

Cameras, computers, and monitors all lie, so be smart, be skeptical about what you see.
Even just the eye-brain system LIVE is not reliable so be smart, be skeptical about what you see.

Let me repeat: Let me repeat also:
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color. If you love it, the color does not matter.
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color. If you love it, the color does not matter.
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color. If you love it, the color does not matter.

If this seems rude, oh well ... it's true.
Clearly it conflicts with how many PS posters think, act, post, and emote about diamond color grades.

Cut is King.

Just my opinion of course.

... and if you don't drink water you'll die of thirst ...
Responding to you this way makes as much sense as you responding to what I said by discussing diamond cut.
 

gr8leo87

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Apr 24, 2015
Messages
381
Wink said:
Karl,

My question to the trade, and to the public:

Why should one color grade make so much difference in price when it is not visible to most people. Even an AGS 0 cut grade can have several flavors that are clearly visible to the human eye, yet little affect on pricing.

Seems backwards to me.

Wink
In melee sizes cut makes a huge difference in prices. A common cut melee size parcel cut in India values much less compared to fine make melee parcel cut in India or Antwerp or Ramat Gan. H-I colored hearts and arrow cut melee will cost slightly more than G-H common cut melee. There's too much weight loss of course. For larger stones the weight loss part is partly addressed at the rough selection stage. A decision to cut a stone 60/60 style, Hearts and arrow style or common style is made at the time of rough planning. For melee size this becomes much more difficult.

Cheers.
 

Karl_K

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
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Messages
12,079
Wink|1443153400|3931560 said:
Karl,

My question to the trade, and to the public:

Why should one color grade make so much difference in price when it is not visible to most people. Even an AGS 0 cut grade can have several flavors that are clearly visible to the human eye, yet little affect on pricing.

Seems backwards to me.

Wink
It comes down to diamond marketing as being rare and snobbery.
Lab color and a slightly lesser extent clarity are natural properties in untreated stones where cut is controlled by man.
 

WinkHPD

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,516
gr8leo87|1443163346|3931585 said:
Wink said:
Karl,

My question to the trade, and to the public:

Why should one color grade make so much difference in price when it is not visible to most people. Even an AGS 0 cut grade can have several flavors that are clearly visible to the human eye, yet little affect on pricing.

Seems backwards to me.

Wink
In melee sizes cut makes a huge difference in prices. A common cut melee size parcel cut in India values much less compared to fine make melee parcel cut in India or Antwerp or Ramat Gan. H-I colored hearts and arrow cut melee will cost slightly more than G-H common cut melee. There's too much weight loss of course. For larger stones the weight loss part is partly addressed at the rough selection stage. A decision to cut a stone 60/60 style, Hearts and arrow style or common style is made at the time of rough planning. For melee size this becomes much more difficult.

Cheers.

Agreed, and because of this it is nearly impossible for cutters of true quality cutting to get the starting rough for stones that will cut a 0.80 to 0.99 if well cut (and similar price break sizes for larger diamonds) because the cutters of "swindle cut" diamonds will pay more for the rough in order to force a 1 ct out of it, regardless of the fact that it is no where near as beautiful as a properly cut diamond.

Since that diamond will sell for more than the properly cut diamond of a smaller size the cutter can afford to pay more for the rough and make a larger than normal profit on that diamond since it can be forced over the price point thresh hold.

It is my fervent hope that someday the consumers who come to places like Pricescope will become well enough educated to let those steep deep FAT stones that are more like lifeless lumps of crystallized carbon than beautiful diamonds sit on the seller's shelves while buying the smaller diamonds that are properly cut.

My contention is, that since these are noticeably more beautiful to the unaided eye that they are in fact the better value, even though the price per carat is higher.

Wink
 

Rockdiamond

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Jan 7, 2009
Messages
8,950
kenny|1443143358|3931498 said:
Wink|1443135519|3931448 said:
kenny|1443058692|3931102 said:
xerofactor|1443057983|3931098 said:
Crap. As an amateur film buff, I'm a little embarassed I didn't even think of white balance. I assume James Allen is properly WBing, because there's definitely disparity between the color grades. But in terms of the eyes though, I can look at one diamond after looking a bunch of D-E-F, come back to it 20 minutes later, and my mind forgets the comparison and it just looks white to me.

As I said ... ignore everything coming from your eyes.
They eye-brain system (even in person, is a big liar).
This is nearly-impossible as we are our brains' bitches ... big liars though they are.

Pay attention ONLY to color grades assigned by GIA or AGS.

This is nearly-impossible to do ... but do it.

Okay, I will bite.

Why?

I admit to being an equal color loving kind of a guy and have sold a few of those rare P colored diamonds, along with many more Ms and Ns. I also admit to LOVING the rich warm buttery flavors of those diamonds.

I also love the Ds, Es and F's at the other end of the spectrum.

Basically, I LOVE SPARKLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think color and clarity are GROSSLY over rated. Why should I care too much about them when it is the
CUTTING that releases the beauty?

Wink

No tricks here.
I'm referring to diamond color, nothing more.
Not cut, not sparkle, not clarity, not what's anyone thinks is most important.
I'm talking about people judging color (unfortunately) from today's typical online pics.
The color grade from GIA/AGS is how you determine what the color IS.
Go out and view them in person to calibrate your eyeballs to their standards, see what the color grades do to the price, and thereby discover your color comfort zone.

Cameras, computers, and monitors all lie, so be smart, be skeptical about what you see.
Even just the eye-brain system LIVE is not reliable so be smart, be skeptical about what you see.

Let me repeat:
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color.
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color.
The color grade from reputable lab is the only way to know a diamond's color.

If this seems rude, oh well ... it's true.
Clearly it conflicts with how many PS posters think, act, post, and emote about diamond color grades.

The color grade on the report is what the lab graded the color- using an accepted methodology. This methodology is designed to create a standard benchmark.
While necessary, this will result in inequities.
Such as: some diamonds that GIA grades J will look more yellow than others getting the same grade.
No matter what the GIA or AGSL says about color, the ONLY test that matters to the vast majority of consumers is what their eyes tell them.
Sure some people buy only based on a lab report- but far more use the pragmatic approach- use the lab report as a guide, then once the stone arrives, use their eyes.
This is why you'll find such variances on the virtual lists for seemingly identical stones - two stones may appear to be identical if we use the lab report, yet will show marked differences in real life.
 

gm89uk

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Colour is after all assessed subjectively by GIA humans (although with the help of master stones). Mistakes can happen.
 

Karl_K

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back on topic...
What is considered the color white by humans has a wide range that varies person to person, look at paint chip samples from a paint store.
When viewed beside a pure white sample they will look different than by themselves.
They will also look different based on the lighting and what a person considers white will change with different lighting.
View those same samples on different computer monitors and few people will agree on what is white because they are seeing different colors even if they are using calibrated monitors there will be variation.
Human perception of white color is a complex subject and computer screens are one of the worst possible means of displaying it.
Then you have the issue of a diamond being described as white when the diamond even the highest D graded diamond is not white......
 

Texas Leaguer

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As Kenny explained, his comments were restricted to diamond color as it is depicted on a computer screen with all the in-between steps and variables that are introduced. And I agree with the sentiments. Do not try to out-grade the labs by trying to analyze the color of a diamond on your computer! Images and videos can provide many different pieces of information which, when interpreted properly, add value to the shopping process. But trying to do too much with any single diagnostic is likely to yield misleading results.

One comment I will make about color perception - it can be a long term process. Sort of like an acquired taste. The more diamonds you look at, the more your eye becomes trained to pick up the nuances. And, in my case at least, the more I have gravitated towards colorless diamonds. Earlier in my career I was firmly in the camp that said it is crazy to pay the premiums for colorless diamonds when near colorless look white too. Well, over the years that sand seems to have very slowly shifted under my feet!
 

LLJsmom

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Karl_K|1443152308|3931556 said:
The lab color grade of a diamond is a material color grade not the color of the light return.(until you hit fancy colors)
There is a lot of confusion about that.
It is also why I have a big problem with vendors saying it faces up like a higher color.
It may face up white depending on lighting due to the cut but that does not change the color grade which is what sets the value.
The disconnect between the lab color grade and what your eyes actually see in the real world is what Kenny is talking about.

I get it. Makes sense.
 
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