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Distroted Fire Result in Brilliancescope

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Garry H (Cut Nut)

Garry H (Cut Nut)

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At this link (and many others) there is a description of thin film Interference colors http://home3.netcarrier.com/~chan/EM/PROGRAMS/THINFILM/


You can also find this effect described as Newtons Rings.
If there is a thin gap (thin as in fractions of wavelength of light) between the stones table and the glass stage that it sits on, then you get this effect - it is the same thing as the rainbow colors formed by oil or gas on the pavement.

There are many stones on Rhino''s site that exhibit the effect, so it is yet another and it is one of the reasons that I do not like the BScope. Naturally the colored light count will be higher - you can see it in the collage photo in the center. Most of the stones that I have seen that show this effect have high fire.

Rhino is going to do some comparisons, with and without, and post them.

Randy Wagner, CEO from Gemex has explained their position too - I will dig the emails up and post them (he gave permission).


Brillianscope Interference colours3.JPG
 
 
Email''s copied in total from Randy Wagner, CEO of Gemex. (start at the bottom)

HI Garry,

Yes you can post it,

We presently do a visual check on each and every scan. We actually just released software that detects it during the scan process, but not all customers have it yet. Never the less, we will continue to visually check it.

Enjoy the snow, I love it, but not in August, Ha!

Going to be at the HK show? If so, see you there.

Randy

----- Original Message -----
From: Garry Holloway
To: ''GemEx Systems Inc.''
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 4:55 PM
Subject: RE: Interference colors

Thanks Randy

All good here.


Its cold down under, it snowed in some outer hilly suburbs last week in Melbourne – first for 20 years.


So does this mean you have a digital process for detection of interference, or a visual check?


May I post your responses in part or full?


Or better still – will you post?


Kind Regards, Garry Holloway


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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


From: GemEx Systems Inc. [mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:59 AM
To: Garry Holloway
Subject: Re: Interference colors

HI Gary


After further reading the thread you sent, I have a couple of comments.


You are correct in defining the rainbowing as interferences. Here in the US, we call them Newton rings, and I probability have used that term in discussions with customers hundreds of times. But you are incorrect saying that it is caused by the air trapped between the surfaces. The rings occur whenever two surfaces are separated by less than 1/4 wavelength of light. There can be (and commonly is) a vacuum between the two surfaces.


The rainbowing happens when the diamond gets a static charge relative to the glass, and "floats" above the glass. We have several procedures customers can follow to eliminate the rings. It does cause frustration at times because GemEx will not approve a scan when it has rainbowing.


Anyway, good catch. Customers are not supposed to be posting screen shots of the Bscope results for that reason. It also violates copyright laws.


Hope all is well downunder.


Thanks


Randy


----- Original Message -----


From: Garry Holloway


To: Martin Haske ; ''Randy Wagner (Randy Wagner)''


Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 9:07 PM


Subject: Interference colors


https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/suggestions-on-princess-with-low-crown-height.32531/


Randy how do you handle this?


Kind Regards, Garry Holloway
 
Date: 8/25/2005 2:55:03 AM
Author:Garry H (Cut Nut)

Rhino is going to do some comparisons, with and without, and post them.

Click to expand...
i would like to see rhino rescan the stones that display the rainbow effect. it is the only way any sort of determination can be made as to whether or not it directly effects the results. comparisons will not do.
 
Hi Mate,

As much as I''d like to do this I am about to leave to Virginia for an Isee2 symposium and will not be back until late Sunday night or Monday. Starting on Tues of next week we are beginning the process of transferring all data and files on our website to a new server and website and I''m not sure how long that is going to take as it is a major job. I am not avoiding putting this off but I''ll have to participate as time allows. In some of the links you posted there are some examples there but on others there aren''t. I''ll be happy to do rescans and show the results as soon as I can.

Kind regards,
 
Welcome back Rhino, from the ISEE-2 Symposium.

It would be interesting to know also what ISEE-2 are doing about this problem now they say they can also measure ''fire''.
 
Bump.
Rhino - You-Hoo?
 
Sorry guys. I''ll attempt to put up some comparisons before I leave today. I apprecaite your patience.
 
Ok... just clicked through all the stones you had listed as well as yours belle. Sorry but they are all sold with the exceptoin of the 1.02ct E VS2 which actually has a wrong Bscope posted (which we''re going to correct) and the 1.04ct I SI1 princess but there is no interference colors on those results.

We just scanned in a bunch of new stones today. Gemex had rejected a bunch of them for one reason or another but we took note of the results when we emailed them the files. After finally getting approval on all of them we took note there wasn''t any difference in the results of the approved stones. I''m playing around now (here till 9pm tonight) TRYING to get interference colors so I can post the comparison for you. As soon as I successfully get get the interference colors I''ll take a snapshot of it (can''t do screen shots anymore with Bscope) then rescan without interference colors and show you the results of both. I have time to play a little tonight unless a client comes in.
 
...
 

I''ll be damned ... I scanned the same stone 7 times and wasn''t able to get it. I did a princess cut too since it appeared to happen most with them.


Anyhow ... check out this stone in the file attachment Garry . We recently found a new supplier and this was one of the sample goods. I''ve never seen a princess cut score this on the GA to my recollection. Look at that ASET view too. It''s an AGS stone, "0" light performance too but I am finding that not all AGS princess cuts have this light performance. I''ll show more example as we do the scans.

As I get a chance tomorrow I''ll review the stock and the Gemex''s. I''ll try to find another stone to test and to show here. Heh... I even tried rubbing a cloth with the diamond in it to create static electricity but no luck.

Belle ... if you haven''t gotten the latest Gem Advisor software here''s the link. http://www.octonus.com/download/GemAdviserSetup.exe It''s pretty neat as it now as ASET views and makes for interesting study. Not just with rounds but fancies as well.

Kind regards,
 

Attachments

Nice stone Rhino.

Have you tried a pressure pack.
Apparently the hgih pressure air spray cans can leave an oil film.
 
Yes I do as a matter of fact. When I get in tomorrow I'll try that. Thanks for the suggestion.

BTW I notice that Gem Advisor files generted from .dmc files made with Helium are much bigger in file size than say Sarin's. That kinda stinks. I'd rather be loading Helium models to post.
 
Success!

Ok ... this first shot is a close up with the "newton rings". Since I''m not able to do screen captures I had to take this with a digi. If you look carefully you can see the rainbows from the center extending upward.

interference01.jpg
 
Here''s a shot showing the results.

interference02.jpg
 
Same stone, rotated to a different orientation, no interference colors (newton rings).

nointerference01.jpg
 
Results...

about a half a tick better in the WL return ... interesting.

nointerference02.jpg
 
What did you have to do to get it to do it?
 
LOL... I don''t know. My lab assistant Chas was scanning in a new batch we got in today and I told him to specifically look for the interference colors and when he did to let me know so I could photograph it for Garry. He kept on scanning then when he finally got no interference colors I snapped the other shots.
 
Date: 9/9/2005 6:26:45 PM
Author: Rhino
LOL... I don''t know. My lab assistant Chas was scanning in a new batch we got in today and I told him to specifically look for the interference colors and when he did to let me know so I could photograph it for Garry. He kept on scanning then when he finally got no interference colors I snapped the other shots.
Click to expand...

LOL
 
Does this have to do with polarization of light?

It reminds me of when I take off my polazrized sunglasses and rotate them when looking at certain car windshields.
When rotated the glasses to certain angles rainbows appear.
 
No, it is quite different - one is caused by thin films of space that are less than the wavelength of light.
Polarization causes a somewhat similar type of colors in thin sections of minerals between crossed polarizing lenses.
 
that''s it?
33.gif
 
Sorry belle. If you were here in our lab/store you''d see Chas, Tim, Christen, Marie, Vicki (my wife) and myself busily working to get jobs done for clients. When things slow down a bit I get to play more. Between appointments and jobs I try to hop on here to participate. I promise you I''m not trying to avoid this, I am interested as well but please understand we are very busy.
 
rhino, i have no doubt you're keeping your crew on task. i read your recent thread on aset training
2.gif
i just wasn't sure if that was the end of the presentation and i want some answers. i know you, of all people, can appreciate that.
 
Dear belle,

Please do not take my delays in this thread personally.

Yes we are busy but we do take moments during the day to share a laugh or two and while I do hold my fellow peers on the other thread in high regards I do not value their concerns more than yours. I may value their expertise more but as people, they are no more important that you are dear. I apologize if this is the perception you were gaining about me as a result and I can understand, to a greater degree how you could arrive at that conclusion.

You see ... Serg''s request of me was a straight forward scan. Scan the stone, screen capture the images, format them and post (and even at that I was pulled from the task approx 4 times before I could finally post it as client requests take priority over the study there).

Your request is a little more involved. I have to sit with the same stone and scan it multiple times. As you can read earlier in this thread I did so with the same stone around 7x with no success. Each scan takes a few minutes which I know doesn''t sound like a lot of time (and it isn''t) but when you are pulled in 10 different directions within the span of a half an hour ... the time between just 2-3 scans becomes a long time. This is why I have staff hired for this.

I just wanted to clarify belle to let you know that I am more than happy to help you with your study, but at the same time my plate is full serving clients and helping people who are making purchasing decisions as well as getting all the details of our new site in order before going live (and I''m sure there will be a few bugs to be worked out as well once that''s completed). So please, while I am making every attempt to understand where you are coming from, please for a moment, try to understand where I am coming from as well.

When I have time during the week to sit and scan uninterrupted I will help you with this as time allows. If you don''t mind me asking belle ... what is the purpose or reason for your requests? Are you studying the subject of newton rings?

Kind regards,
Jonathan
 
very well rhino. as you said, one could see how it looks that way.

as it is, i was not asking you to scan the same diamond over and over to try and get interference colors. i was asking you to rescan any of the stones from your inventory that had posted results displaying the phenomenon. garry gave you a list of diamonds on your site that displayed the effect. it would have been a simple task to rescan them since obviously it is easier to get a scan without the interference colors than it is to try and get one that displays them.
even though it was garry who started this thread, i am very interested from a consumer point of view what impact interference colors/newtons rings has on bs results.
 
Date: 9/8/2005 7:52:37 PM
Author: Rhino
Ok... just clicked through all the stones you had listed as well as yours belle. Sorry but they are all sold with the exceptoin of the 1.02ct E VS2 which actually has a wrong Bscope posted (which we''re going to correct) and the 1.04ct I SI1 princess but there is no interference colors on those results.
Click to expand...
You may have missed this response from me earlier in this thread.
 
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