Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Difference in Sarine, Lexus and OGI

diamondsinstars

Rough_Rock
Joined
Apr 28, 2016
Messages
1
I've always been interested in diamonds and the polishing/grading processes that they go through. Recently, I looked into the kind of equipment used in rough polishing and diamond grading. There seem to be 3 companies that stand out.

As far as I know, the grading laboratories use the Sarine machines to perform grading measurements. Do any of the trade people here know why they are preferred over the other brands of diamond scanning machines?

http://www.ogisystems.com/
http://sarine.com/
http://www.lexusindia.in/home/Default.aspx

Besides grading, it seems that rough polishing is predominantly associated with Sarine machines for scans and cutting. Is there a reason why a particular machine is favored? I know DiaGem is a resident diamond cutter here and would love for him to share his views.

Lastly, in terms of diamond presentation by retailers (especially online vendors), is there certain machines that are preferred and used by vendors? I'm asking because there seem to be a huge variety of video formats offered by many of the well known vendors like White Flash, Blue Nile, James Allen, Enchanted Diamonds etc....

Really look forward to hearing from anyone who replies!

Curiously yours,
DIS
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,170
I know about 1/3rd of the topic.
GIA use a lot of the helium Scanners these days supplied by Lexus.
The main criteria for rough planning in larger manufacturers these days is integration with inclusion plotting systems and maximising cutting yields.
Sarine have a market lead using a melted high RI liquid immersion scanning system based on their buy-out of Galaxy.
Helium have many advantages with polished scanning accuracy and symmetry / cut grade boundaries.
Ogi are lower cost for mainly smalls, there is an Indian company too in that space - sachinhandandanananana or something like that.
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
4,929
diamondsinstars|1480957188|4104931 said:
I've always been interested in diamonds and the polishing/grading processes that they go through. Recently, I looked into the kind of equipment used in rough polishing and diamond grading. There seem to be 3 companies that stand out.

As far as I know, the grading laboratories use the Sarine machines to perform grading measurements. Do any of the trade people here know why they are preferred over the other brands of diamond scanning machines?

http://www.ogisystems.com/
http://sarine.com/
http://www.lexusindia.in/home/Default.aspx

Besides grading, it seems that rough polishing is predominantly associated with Sarine machines for scans and cutting. Is there a reason why a particular machine is favored? I know DiaGem is a resident diamond cutter here and would love for him to share his views.

Lastly, in terms of diamond presentation by retailers (especially online vendors), is there certain machines that are preferred and used by vendors? I'm asking because there seem to be a huge variety of video formats offered by many of the well known vendors like White Flash, Blue Nile, James Allen, Enchanted Diamonds etc....

Really look forward to hearing from anyone who replies!

Curiously yours,
DIS
From the three Companies mentioned I have experience in both Sarine & (limited) Ogi.
From these two I chose Sarine as my Tech tool.

I heard great things of Helium polish but never could get support in my neck of the woods.

In general..., all three are stuck in the generic world of Diamond cutting. None will put in the extra effort into the next generation of 3D Optical Precision! For most of the (big) manufacturing players those available tools will suffice. thats why this industry is stuck at large.

The Labs and the Technological Companies servicing our cutting world are fine with this status quo.
 

Paul-Antwerp

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Sep 2, 2002
Messages
2,852
Agreeing with Yoram and Garry, but wishing to add some perspective.

Scanners of rough are of extreme importance. As per Garry, Sarine Galaxy improves the pinpointing of exact location of inclusions. Depending on the nature of the rough, it offers benefits in weight-retention and improvement in final clarity. Usage of these scanners influences the decision on what to produce, not necessarily the quality-outcome.

On the other side of the spectrum, you have scanners of polished. The most precise versions are probably used by labs and the cheapest can be found in some jewelry-stores.

Live long,
 

diagem

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Oct 21, 2004
Messages
4,929
Paul-Antwerp|1481123652|4105356 said:
Agreeing with Yoram and Garry, but wishing to add some perspective.

Scanners of rough are of extreme importance. As per Garry, Sarine Galaxy improves the pinpointing of exact location of inclusions. Depending on the nature of the rough, it offers benefits in weight-retention and improvement in final clarity. Usage of these scanners influences the decision on what to produce, not necessarily the quality-outcome.

On the other side of the spectrum, you have scanners of polished. The most precise versions are probably used by labs and the cheapest can be found in some jewelry-stores.

Live long,
Fully agree with you Paul but would like to add that all the scanners have margin of errors which limit cutters from moving forward technically. A huge problem that keeps this industry stuck in the fog.
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,496
DiaGem|1481114554|4105344 said:
diamondsinstars|1480957188|4104931 said:
I've always been interested in diamonds and the polishing/grading processes that they go through. Recently, I looked into the kind of equipment used in rough polishing and diamond grading. There seem to be 3 companies that stand out.

As far as I know, the grading laboratories use the Sarine machines to perform grading measurements. Do any of the trade people here know why they are preferred over the other brands of diamond scanning machines?

http://www.ogisystems.com/
http://sarine.com/
http://www.lexusindia.in/home/Default.aspx

Besides grading, it seems that rough polishing is predominantly associated with Sarine machines for scans and cutting. Is there a reason why a particular machine is favored? I know DiaGem is a resident diamond cutter here and would love for him to share his views.

Lastly, in terms of diamond presentation by retailers (especially online vendors), is there certain machines that are preferred and used by vendors? I'm asking because there seem to be a huge variety of video formats offered by many of the well known vendors like White Flash, Blue Nile, James Allen, Enchanted Diamonds etc....

Really look forward to hearing from anyone who replies!

Curiously yours,
DIS
From the three Companies mentioned I have experience in both Sarine & (limited) Ogi.
From these two I chose Sarine as my Tech tool.

I heard great things of Helium polish but never could get support in my neck of the woods.

In general..., all three are stuck in the generic world of Diamond cutting. None will put in the extra effort into the next generation of 3D Optical Precision! For most of the (big) manufacturing players those available tools will suffice. thats why this industry is stuck at large.

The Labs and the Technological Companies servicing our cutting world are fine with this status quo.

Yoram,

re:None will put in the extra effort into the next generation of 3D Optical Precision!

please check https://www.dropbox.com/s/64qywq7cxjjgu7e/HP%20Reflect_2015_10_29_ver0.3.0.pptx?dl=0
it is not confidential more, such products will available on market during 2017
you may come to Surat and see working prototypes in any time
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,170
DiaGem|1481125619|4105362 said:
Paul-Antwerp|1481123652|4105356 said:
Agreeing with Yoram and Garry, but wishing to add some perspective.

Scanners of rough are of extreme importance. As per Garry, Sarine Galaxy improves the pinpointing of exact location of inclusions. Depending on the nature of the rough, it offers benefits in weight-retention and improvement in final clarity. Usage of these scanners influences the decision on what to produce, not necessarily the quality-outcome.

On the other side of the spectrum, you have scanners of polished. The most precise versions are probably used by labs and the cheapest can be found in some jewelry-stores.

Live long,
Fully agree with you Paul but would like to add that all the scanners have margin of errors which limit cutters from moving forward technically. A huge problem that keeps this industry stuck in the fog.
Hi Yoram,
Hope you had a look at the link Sergey posted.
As Paul notes - usually labs should invest to make standards. But strangely technology tends to preceed the guards of the hen house.
For example I was buying diamonds from an Israeli manufacturer in 2002 or 2003. One half carat stone had reasonable H&A's and I said mazal to the price.
The seller said "but Garry it only has Good GIA symmetry!". This was a case of bad lab systems based on a decade only of access to scanners. I wonder if I could find the client and resubmit the stone to GIA - would they have fixed the table tilt issue and maybe it now gets Excellent? It prompted Sergey, Yuri and me to write an article http://www.gemology.ru/cut/english/symmetry/6.htm
This is half way through - the whole thing is worth a read.

Before scanners there was a human system heavily weighted to what could be observed - largely about facet meet points, which have gone by the way a bit since scanners are fast and repeatable, but as you can see from the examples Sergey has shown, and Yorams demands, there is room for improvement.

I wounder what will happen over the next decade?
 

Serg

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 21, 2002
Messages
2,496
Yoram,

re:None will put in the extra effort into the next generation of 3D Optical Precision!

please check https://www.dropbox.com/s/64qywq7cxjjgu7e/HP Reflect_2015_10_29_ver0.3.0.pptx?dl=0
it is not confidential more, such products will available on market during 2017
you may come to Surat and see working prototypes in any time
Hi Garry,

on Lexus website a junctions comparison with Microscope photos is available now :

http://beta.lexusindia.in/gb-hpocr.html

Happy New Year
Screen Shot 2018-01-01 at 16.36.57.png
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,170
Hi Garry,

on Lexus website a junctions comparison with Microscope photos is available now :

http://beta.lexusindia.in/gb-hpocr.html

Happy New Year
Screen Shot 2018-01-01 at 16.36.57.png
Nice to see after so many years since your original idea Sergey.
Using reflections from specifically positioned light sources to 'brighten' up individual facets - it's BRILLIANT!
 

valeria101

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Aug 29, 2003
Messages
15,809
Before scanners there was a human system heavily weighted to what could be observed
This holds beyond the matter of facet meet points; any departure from 'what can be observed' is surprising - given the purpose of the exercise.

digressing
 
Be a part of the community It's free, join today!
    June’s Birthstone Trinity
    June’s Birthstone Trinity
    Memorial Day Jewelry 2020
    Memorial Day Jewelry 2020
    Van Cleef & Arpels Perlee Clovers Bracelet
    Van Cleef & Arpels Perlee Clovers Bracelet

Need Something Special?

Get a quote from multiple trusted and vetted jewelers.

Holloway Cut Advisor



Diamond Eye Candy

Click to view full-size image.
Top