Difference between vendor settings and how they are made

[KirstLWA]

Hi Everyone

Just reading this old thread and I wondered if the information in it was still current in regards to how Whiteflash and BGD make their settings.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/setting-comparison-question-same-or-not.137890/

For those that can't be bothered reading the thread, the end conclusion is that WF have their settings cast by an outside company and BGD have a jeweller in house who does all their casting in the BGD workshop.

Got me wondering which vendors do what?

HPD - remember something about Harry Winston and HPD using the same company??
WF
BGD

Do they all make them in their own workshops or do they have casting companies that they send their cads to and then the company casts the setting and sends it back to the vendor for stone setting and final polish.

Final question, will a cast ring always be lighter in weight than a completely hand forged ring? I was recently told by a sales rep at Tiffany that you can't cast platinum

Thanks.

 

[sledge]

Great question. I recently bought a stone and am still in the process of sorting out the setting. In my case. The setting my girl likes is far enough away from available options a true custom design is needed unless I want to purchase from Jared’s (ugh).

I knew the setting would be tough when diamond shopping. Here is what I discovered:

JA - Uses outside vendors. Based on the fact they and many others offer platinum settings make me think the statement about all platinum being hand crafted is false.

WF - Never got a clear read if their custom was in-house or outside, but based on other conversations about going to all those vendors sites to find something that worked left me with the impression they didn’t do in-house jewelry.

BGD - Where I bought my stone. They quoted me for custom work and I understood them to produce in-house.

DK - Where I have opted to buy the setting. Total custom and in-house.

 

[TreeScientist]

Great question. I recently bought a stone and am still in the process of sorting out the setting. In my case. The setting my girl likes is far enough away from available options a true custom design is needed unless I want to purchase from Jared’s (ugh).

I knew the setting would be tough when diamond shopping. Here is what I discovered:

JA - Uses outside vendors. Based on the fact they and many others offer platinum settings make me think the statement about all platinum being hand crafted is false.

WF - Never got a clear read if their custom was in-house or outside, but based on other conversations about going to all those vendors sites to find something that worked left me with the impression they didn’t do in-house jewelry.

BGD - Where I bought my stone. They quoted me for custom work and I understood them to produce in-house.

DK - Where I have opted to buy the setting. Total custom and in-house.

I guess it depends on your definition of hand-crafted, but I would say this is definitely a false statement if you're referring to hand-forged. Most platinum setting, except for those created by the boutique designers (I think Leon Mege still does some Hand-forged pieces), are casted and then modified/shaved-down/polished by a setter. Very few pieces are actually hand-forged in modern times.

FYI anything created from a CAD would be considered a casted piece, not hand-forged. The process is often referred to as CAD/casting.

Not that there's anything wrong with casted pieces. My girlfriend's ring is casted. They allow for very intricate designs to be created at lower price points due to the much lower man-hours involved in making the pieces. It just makes sense to use CAD/casting for a majority of the pieces being created today.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Very few pieces are actually hand-forged in modern times.

Percentage-wise, in the world, sure. For PS readers who are using many different PS vendors, hand forged pieces abound.

 

[TreeScientist]

Percentage-wise, in the world, sure. For PS readers who are using many different PS vendors, hand forged pieces abound.

True. As I said, a lot of boutique designers still do hand-forged pieces. And there are indeed some beautiful examples here on PriceScope. But your average stock setting from a diamond vendor or a custom piece created from a CAD? Yeah, those are all casted.

 

[Rockdiamond]

Given that this is a specialized forum about diamonds and jewelry, generalizations may not serve readers well....
"Diamond vendor" "average stock setting" " boutique designers" are terms that seem to allow far too much generalization.

ETA- my advice is to ask the seller directly about manufacturing methods and results. Also a very good idea to make sure you see examples of the type of work you're seeking. Too many stories of a seller assuring a buyer- "sure, I can do that" and the result is not the same.

 

[KirstLWA]

Thanks everyone.

I understand the difference between hand forged and cast. My question was does anyone know who does it in house and who outsources it. I was reading about a setting last night that the band was cast and the prongs were hand forged. I guess I’m trying to determine quality overall but initially was interested in who did what!

And then leading on from that, are cast pieces lighter in weight than hand forged pieces (not cast and hand finished!) would they mostly contain the same amount of platinum for example.

 

[Karl_K]

Mass production cast pieces are often hollow under the ring against the finger where hand forged is not, therefore the hand-forged is heavier.
Custom or some designer pieces it can go either way but in general hand-forged is lighter and more refined for the same design.

A mix of cast or die struck and hand forged can be a budget best bet in some cases.
The large parts with few details are cast or die struck then the detailed parts are hand forged.

Platinum can be cast, die struck or hand forged.

 

[KirstLWA]

Thanks Karl!

 

[Rockdiamond]

My question was does anyone know who does it in house and who outsources it.

This is a great question!
I'd say 95% of all jewelry sold is not made directly by the store selling it.
This includes the most prestigious names in the business ( think blue box).
It's possible for a seller to virtually monopolize a factory- without actually owning it.
Yet from many standpoints, it's outsourced.
There are also different levels of outsourcing. It's cheapest to make jewelry in China, and India.
We have found many reasons that producing in the USA is far preferable.
It really does pay to have a discussion with the vendor you're considering. They should be able to answer any and all of these questions- including country of manufacture.
Pricescope is a great place to vet the answers ( of course platinum is cast every day....)

 

[Texas Leaguer]

As for Whiteflash, with our own designs and with our custom work we do everything in-house EXCEPT casting. We outsource that for a variety of very good reasons!

All of our designer brand pieces are manufactured by the designers, of course. However, in many cases we are authorized to set the diamonds and do certain types of servicing in our shop on behalf of the designers. Saves customer and designer time and/or money.

 

[KirstLWA]

Great. Thank you for those replies @Texas Leaguer and @Rockdiamond

Appreciate it.

I am presuming the terribly light, feel like they will snap cast pieces that I have had the unfortunate opportunity to hold have been made cheaply in china and poorly made at that.

At least it was a learning opportunity. I'm sure (hope) that well made cast pieces feel more structurally safe and sound!!

I love the weight of a platinum hand forged piece and was hoping I might achieve that feeling and sense of a well made piece with a cast piece also.

 

[Rockdiamond]

KirstLWA- you're welcome!
Not all cheap, lightweight pieces are made in China. To be fair, there are also some nice pieces made there.
But one big reason we love to keep our jewelers and setters close is that if something needs repair, it makes a lot of sense to have the same people who made it fix or adjust the size.

I love the weight of a platinum hand forged piece and was hoping I might achieve that feeling and sense of a well made piece with a cast piece also.

I think Karl alluded to this..but in general, a cast platinum piece will have more metal ( weight) than hand forged. But not always.

 

[GolfingGreen]

This is a great thread. I never gave it much thought until recently.
If you read the below description from a vendor, is this hand forged? Can something be hand made and also cast? Or does hand made always equal hand forged? And if they use lasers, is this not purely hand forged?

.....
Our facility in New York is home to the finest artisans in the industry. Each piece of jewelry is carefully crafted, inspected and analyzed by hand. Using the latest finishing technology, including lasers, no piece ever leaves the shop until even the tiniest details are examined. This ensures the highest standard of quality, never compromised.

Every JB Star creation is hand made using only platinum, 18kt yellow and pink gold. The quality of the stones is another aspect where JB Star will not compromise.
----

Thank you. Great thread.

 

[doc3]

Hi Everyone

Just reading this old thread and I wondered if the information in it was still current in regards to how Whiteflash and BGD make their settings.

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/setting-comparison-question-same-or-not.137890/

For those that can't be bothered reading the thread, the end conclusion is that WF have their settings cast by an outside company and BGD have a jeweller in house who does all their casting in the BGD workshop.

Got me wondering which vendors do what?


Do they all make them in their own workshops or do they have casting companies that they send their cads to and then the company casts the setting and sends it back to the vendor for stone setting and final polish.


Thanks.

I just ordered from BGD and talked to one of their reps about setting. At least some of their settings are Sholdt- my understanding is that those are custom made in Seattle for each order, then sent to BGD for setting. Not sure about the other BGD settings

 

[KirstLWA]

Thanks everyone.

Yes @doc3 I saw your posts. Congratulations on your purchase and I can't wait to see the end result.

I understand that designer pieces are sold by the vendors but then made by the 'designer' ie Vatche for example but I did wonder about the settings that the vendors have on offer themselves. Like the WF, HPD, BGD own brand settings.

This is all interesting. I presume that the super ideal vendors would use the highest quality casting houses if they outsource. No point selling top quality diamonds in settings that are of a lower quality.

 

[Texas Leaguer]

Thanks everyone.

Yes @doc3 I saw your posts. Congratulations on your purchase and I can't wait to see the end result.

I understand that designer pieces are sold by the vendors but then made by the 'designer' ie Vatche for example but I did wonder about the settings that the vendors have on offer themselves. Like the WF, HPD, BGD own brand settings.

This is all interesting. I presume that the super ideal vendors would use the highest quality casting houses if they outsource. No point selling top quality diamonds in settings that are of a lower quality.

This is an astute observation - and certainly a fact of life for vendors who participate here! Naturally customers who are intensely interested in the details of their diamond selection are going to be just as judicious in the quality of their settings.

Over the years we have had a push/pull over settings available elsewhere that look nice and are cheaper. In particular with very dainty designs. While we always want to accommodate customers tastes, and be price competitive, we have found it is often a mistake to move outside of our own standards for quality and especially durability.

 

[marymm]

This is a great thread. I never gave it much thought until recently.
If you read the below description from a vendor, is this hand forged? Can something be hand made and also cast? Or does hand made always equal hand forged? And if they use lasers, is this not purely hand forged?

.....
Our facility in New York is home to the finest artisans in the industry. Each piece of jewelry is carefully crafted, inspected and analyzed by hand. Using the latest finishing technology, including lasers, no piece ever leaves the shop until even the tiniest details are examined. This ensures the highest standard of quality, never compromised.

Every JB Star creation is hand made using only platinum, 18kt yellow and pink gold. The quality of the stones is another aspect where JB Star will not compromise.
----

Thank you. Great thread.

From my understanding, hand-forged is one technique that is "hand made" and, yes, something can be "hand made" and also cast. A setting can be custom-designed and cast by hand and finished by hand and be a one-off, unique ring. Also, many jewelers have "house" settings, and they can cast that same design by hand multiple times and finish it each time by hand. Lasers can be used whether hand-forged or cast.

Sometimes the design of the ring informs whether it is all handforged, or perhaps one piece is handforged and the basket/head/other elements are cast, and the pieces are assembled and finished by hand.

 

[Donnass117]

I am no expert, but I've worked directly with a designer and she says all her rings are 100% hand forged and never outsourced. I visited her LA shop and saw some pieces being worked on and it seemed all hand made. She explained the entire process to me, her name is Maytal Hannah.