Diff vendors-Huge price difference??

[princessk]

So I have been in market for a 5+ carat lab diamond. I found one last week but I was stunned at price difference on same stone on line with various vendors.
Of course I purchased with best price vendor. I decided to do a price check experiment today on 2 different stones with exact same IGI certificates.
Both stones came in with very high and very low quotes.( I did not name vendors as I am not sure if allowed)


I color 5.02ct - $16,446 with vendor A
$25,528 with vendor B
a price diff of $9,082


I color 5.13ct - $22,946 vendor A
$26,240 vendor B
$30,020 vendor C
$36,523 vendor D
a price diff up to $13,577!!!!
I find this fascinating. HUGE diffs when you are spending that kind of money. Now tack on taxes and possibly foreign dollar exchanges and Yikes

Do your homework people its worth it!!

 

[marymm]

Do the vendors have the same customer service policies, i.e., return policy, buy-back policy, upgrade policy?

But yes, from vendor to vendor, regardless of item being sold, prices can vary widely ... always wise to compare prices and customer service policies

 

[musicloveranthony]

Those are MASSIVE price differences. I don't think all the customer service in the world is worth more than 50% of purchase price. All I really expect is a refund/return policy and for them to send what I pay for.

 

[DiamDude]

Yup, Even I have seen different prices even though you will find same diamonds at multiple websites and it seems like they are trying to earn good amount on it. As far as I have seen and noticed if you compare real diamond price to lab diamonds it would be costing around 30% of the value of the real one. Even saw some website are running offers like best price 10% off 20% off. Just a suggestion before making purchase at-least multiple vendors in terms of competition they will drop the margins.

 

[elle_chris]

I dunno.. with natural diamonds, there's usually a reason why one would be priced much higher than another with same/similar specs.

Could be the same in the lab world since not all of them are created equal.

 

[musicloveranthony]

I dunno.. with natural diamonds, there's usually a reason why one would be priced much higher than another with same/similar specs.

Could be the same in the lab world since not all of them are created equal.

Definitely accurate with same specs/diff price. This is about the exact same diamond being drop-shipped from different vendors for drastically different prices

 

[cannuck]

I’ve noticed this in GIA graded natural diamonds, too. I don’t want to mention names, but there’s one or two vendors I would like to deal with because they are close to my home, so I can view the diamonds in person if they are able to get them in. Do you think they would match the price of other vendors? They say they do, but will they? Anyone have experience with this?

 

[whitewave]

How did you find them at the different vendors? The price differences are crazy!

 

[princessk]

Definitely accurate with same specs/diff price. This is about the exact same diamond being drop-shipped from different vendors for drastically different prices

exactly my original point

 

[princessk]

How did you find them at the different vendors? The price differences are crazy!

I have been checking for months. All you need to do is compare the IGI certification number. Some vendors like Rare Carat make it super easy as you can search by the cert. number.

 

[princessk]

I’ve noticed this in GIA graded natural diamonds, too. I don’t want to mention names, but there’s one or two vendors I would like to deal with because they are close to my home, so I can view the diamonds in person if they are able to get them in. Do you think they would match the price of other vendors? They say they do, but will they? Anyone have experience with this?

Most will go into exact detail on the website of the policy. It is a very competitive market so I sure hope they would go the extra mile to make the sale.

 

[Rockdiamond]

As someone who can see "both sides".....
Wow, it's difficult for consumers.

Of course I purchased with best price vendor.

That makes total sense!!! Until it doesn't.
For one thing- in many cases, the "bottom feeder" lowest-priced sellers can't actually get the diamond they are lowballing. Don't even get me started about the quality of the jewelry....

Do the vendors have the same customer service policies, i.e., return policy, buy-back policy, upgrade policy?

This is so on point.
Say a diamond ( lab or natural) has a wholesale price of $10,000.
If someone could sell it for $11k, they just made $1000. Sounds like a plan!!
But there are so many moving parts on this sort of transaction...so many little things that can go wrong.
If, as a seller, you don't care about satisfying the client, keeping your word, or about bad reviews, well, that makes life a lot simpler!
If the seller does take great care on all the aspects of the sale, and after-sale, the $1000 profit gets eaten away in a flash.

For me personally- when I'm buying printer paper...go to the cheapest place.
If I want to purchase something that's important to me- and that has complexities far beyond printer paper... ( I'm thinking of buying guitars...well, then I'd rather pay more and buy from someone who can give me all the services I desire.
Unfortunately, it seems like we won't have all the choices as small sellers are going out of business faster than you can say bingo.....

 

[princessk]

As someone who can see "both sides".....
Wow, it's difficult for consumers.


That makes total sense!!! Until it doesn't.
For one thing- in many cases, the "bottom feeder" lowest-priced sellers can't actually get the diamond they are lowballing. Don't even get me started about the quality of the jewelry....


This is so on point.
Say a diamond ( lab or natural) has a wholesale price of $10,000.
If someone could sell it for $11k, they just made $1000. Sounds like a plan!!
But there are so many moving parts on this sort of transaction...so many little things that can go wrong.
If, as a seller, you don't care about satisfying the client, keeping your word, or about bad reviews, well, that makes life a lot simpler!
If the seller does take great care on all the aspects of the sale, and after-sale, the $1000 profit gets eaten away in a flash.

For me personally- when I'm buying printer paper...go to the cheapest place.
If I want to purchase something that's important to me- and that has complexities far beyond printer paper... ( I'm thinking of buying guitars...well, then I'd rather pay more and buy from someone who can give me all the services I desire.
Unfortunately, it seems like we won't have all the choices as small sellers are going out of business faster than you can say bingo.....

I can totally relate to what you are saying here. To tell you the truth I was mainly shocked at how deep and different the fluctuations were for the exact same item. The vendors must know the consumer has so many tools at their disposal to seek the most competitive price. I understand everyone has the right to choose their markup and yes unfortunately that mark up will be just too much for some.

 

[oncrutchesrightnow]

It will be interesting to see what consumers will pay extra for as the LGD market evolves. I’m guessing specialty cuts, trade up policies, and reliable, standardized disclosure of quality (blue nuance, stria, post-growth tx, etc.).

 

[Musa15]

That is a staggering difference! I wonder how Lightbox will influence prices down the road. I cannot believe that MMD can have that great of variation in pricing. You'd think that there would be enough in the markup to take care of the retail/distribution network without having to rob consumers.

 

[Rockdiamond]

I cannot believe that MMD can have that great of variation in pricing

Based on what I see now, there's a lack of consistency in the material. So not all G/VS1's are the same. Some are dull. Some have unwanted blue nuance. SO it's not really possible to say a 2ct G/VS2 is worth $X
And that would be if we ignored cut...there's only maybe..10 million posts about cut on this forum??
...... there are a lot of horribly cut Lab Grown Diamonds out there...
No one can see the future, we all agree on that.
But as it stands now, it's just not possible to effectively see these stones as "fungible"

 

[Musa15]

Based on what I see now, there's a lack of consistency in the material. So not all G/VS1's are the same. Some are dull. Some have unwanted blue nuance. SO it's not really possible to say a 2ct G/VS2 is worth $X
And that would be if we ignored cut...there's only maybe..10 million posts about cut on this forum??
...... there are a lot of horribly cut Lab Grown Diamonds out there...
No one can see the future, we all agree on that.
But as it stands now, it's just not possible to effectively see these stones as "fungible"

@Rockdiamond , it looks like OP was referring to stones with the same certificate.

 

[Rockdiamond]

@Rockdiamond , it looks like OP was referring to stones with the same certificate.

Yes, I was speaking more in general terms.
But even specifically referring to this thread- many of the "bottom feeder" sellers can't actually obtain the stones they purport to offer online....it's happened on many occasions to people posting here on PS.....
The point is...it's not so easy to ascertain the price of diamonds online based on website prices..

 

[princessk]

Yes, I was speaking more in general terms.
But even specifically referring to this thread- many of the "bottom feeder" sellers can't actually obtain the stones they purport to offer online....it's happened on many occasions to people posting here on PS.....
The point is...it's not so easy to ascertain the price of diamonds online based on website prices..

 

[princessk]

"bottom feeder" Yikes, strong term. I tend to think I just did not purchase from a higher mark up seller for the EXACT SAME STONE. The difference was just under $10,000 between sellers and I am in Canada so exchange and taxes still to go on top of that. I don't think I purchased from a bottom feeder. So far excellent service and quick communication. Just because they are not charging a larger markup doesn't mean I'm not taken care of.

 

[Musa15]

Yes, I think the concern here is that for a long time mined diamonds were thought of as "rare," and while the prices were astronomical, it was somewhat tolerated by consumers. There is now a competitor product (lab) and there is still jitter in the industry about pricing these products.

From a consumer standpoint, there is not a lot of transparency on how these MMD prices get generated. It is expected that producers, cutters, distributors and retail vendors all get a cut but it is not clear what exactly that % markup is. I believe from a consumer standpoint that there is an expectation that the technology around MMD would have significantly cut through these highly inflated mined diamond prices. But it seems like the general approach by retailers has been to shave off a % cost from what a mined equivalent would be. Meaning, if a mined stone would typically be 10k then it's lab counterpart would be 7k, not taking into account that producing + distributing plus adding a healthy markup should generate a price closer to 3k.

I do think that competitors like DeBeers with their lightbox brand is going to help drive these lab prices down. And as consumers get more savvy with information and usage of technology to seek out lowest pricing that the rug will be pulled out from underneath this whole industry.

It is telling though that OP was able to find the exact stone 10k cheaper on a $16.5k stone, this is amounts to a 43% difference. 43%! So while consumers would expect a difference from retail to retail store, there should be no tangible reason for this large amount of difference.

@Rockdiamond , I see you're in the trade, so I'd be eager to hear your thoughts.

 

[Rockdiamond]

From a consumer standpoint, there is not a lot of transparency on how these MMD prices get generated.

How, much does it cost to make an iphone?
Or a T-bone steak?
Are there products being sold that advertise sourcing costs? I ask in earnest- maybe there are...I can't think of any....

But after 45 years as a diamond trader, I have no idea the actual cost to pull a diamond out of the ground.
When it comes to MMD, yes, it's a super interesting "wrinkle" in the traditional way diamonds have been priced/sold.
There are predictions ALL over the place- many contradictory predictions by a lot of people who are knowledgeable. It's all guesswork at this point.

But it seems like the general approach by retailers has been to shave off a % cost from what a mined equivalent would be.

I think this is a misconception. Retailers, by and large, are not in any position to "control" the cost of the diamonds they buy- MMD, or natural- so they get something for a buck, and sell it for more than a buck.

"bottom feeder" Yikes, strong term

NO offense intended- sorry if it was a poor choice of words. Since no vendors have been specifically mentioned, my comment wasn't pointed at any specific vendor.
Without a doubt, the specific numbers being specified raise a red flag.
Is the diamond in your possession at this point?
If so, I hope it pleases you- and sounds like you got a great deal! But there are MANY cases of stones being advertised by sellers who can not actually sell the specific stone they're offering at the price they've advertised it.
It's an issue for consumers.....

 

[Musa15]

How, much does it cost to make an iphone?
Or a T-bone steak?
Are there products being sold that advertise sourcing costs? I ask in earnest- maybe there are...I can't think of any....

But after 45 years as a diamond trader, I have no idea the actual cost to pull a diamond out of the ground.
When it comes to MMD, yes, it's a super interesting "wrinkle" in the traditional way diamonds have been priced/sold.
There are predictions ALL over the place- many contradictory predictions by a lot of people who are knowledgeable. It's all guesswork at this point.

At the risk of sounding pedantic here are some quick figures:

Cost of an iPhone:

• Estimated iPhone material costs ranged from $156.2 to $450.50 (model dependant)
• Retail prices of these entry-level iPhones ranged from $399 to $1099 (2007-2020)
• The difference between material cost and the retail price ranged from 27.6% to 44.63%
• Projected markup ranged between 124.06% to 260.17% (Source: https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-much-do-iphones-cost-to-make)

Average cost per cattle is around $750.

I think this is a misconception. Retailers, by and large, are not in any position to "control" the cost of the diamonds they buy- MMD, or natural- so they get something for a buck, and sell it for more than a buck.

I understand what you're saying here, you get a pricing sheet from distributor and there's a markup you apply to that. I think the issue is you'll get a certain price and an equivalent retailer will get a different price sheet. A quick google search found that it cost $300-500 per carat to produce a CVD lab grown diamond.

I just don't understand the wild variety in pricing from retail store to retail store.

 

[Rockdiamond]

What a great discussion!!
About diamond sellers:

this is amounts to a 43% difference. 43%!

If 43% difference is worth a bolding....what about this difference? Sounds like more than double in terms of variation.

Projected markup ranged between 124.06% to 260.17%

A quick google search found that it cost $300-500 per carat to produce a CVD lab grown diamond.

If it's on Google, it must be true...bwahhhhhahahah

Seriously- let's look at reality. Based on what we see in the actual market, it's not possible to grow consistently colorless and clean rough...otherwise, all we'd see is D flawless...right?
This adds a wrinkle to the cost analysis, based on current market conditions where a D cost more than a J color.
IOW- if you grow 1000 carats, and 300 cts are subpar...but it all cost the same to grow...then you've got to start taking measures to capitalize in the successful pieces of rough to make up for the bad ones....
My point is that cost of rough is only part of the equation....
We can all agree that top of the line cutters, who produce specialty goods ( for example "Super Ideal" diamonds) charge exponentially more than a production line cutting "average" goods.

I just don't understand the wild variety in pricing from retail store to retail store.

I would argue that a website is not necessarily a retail store. Yes, they are selling retail, but they don't have a "store" per se.
This difference facilitates what I called "Bottom Feeders" ...tiny office, with no diamonds in it....or work from your bedroom, set up a website and off you go.
TO open a store takes a far greater commitment.

 

[Musa15]

What a great discussion!!
About diamond sellers:


If 43% difference is worth a bolding....what about this difference? Sounds like more than double in terms of variation.




If it's on Google, it must be true...bwahhhhhahahah

Seriously- let's look at reality. Based on what we see in the actual market, it's not possible to grow consistently colorless and clean rough...otherwise, all we'd see is D flawless...right?
This adds a wrinkle to the cost analysis, based on current market conditions where a D cost more than a J color.
IOW- if you grow 1000 carats, and 300 cts are subpar...but it all cost the same to grow...then you've got to start taking measures to capitalize in the successful pieces of rough to make up for the bad ones....
My point is that cost of rough is only part of the equation....
We can all agree that top of the line cutters, who produce specialty goods ( for example "Super Ideal" diamonds) charge exponentially more than a production line cutting "average" goods.


I would argue that a website is not necessarily a retail store. Yes, they are selling retail, but they don't have a "store" per se.
This difference facilitates what I called "Bottom Feeders" ...tiny office, with no diamonds in it....or work from your bedroom, set up a website and off you go.
TO open a store takes a far greater commitment.

If you think about debeers pricing structure it makes sense why they’re charging $800 per carat. That’s double the cost (roughly). I’m eager to see what this does to the market as Debeers product line grows over time.

 

[princessk]

What a great discussion!!
About diamond sellers:


If 43% difference is worth a bolding....what about this difference? Sounds like more than double in terms of variation.




If it's on Google, it must be true...bwahhhhhahahah

Seriously- let's look at reality. Based on what we see in the actual market, it's not possible to grow consistently colorless and clean rough...otherwise, all we'd see is D flawless...right?
This adds a wrinkle to the cost analysis, based on current market conditions where a D cost more than a J color.
IOW- if you grow 1000 carats, and 300 cts are subpar...but it all cost the same to grow...then you've got to start taking measures to capitalize in the successful pieces of rough to make up for the bad ones....
My point is that cost of rough is only part of the equation....
We can all agree that top of the line cutters, who produce specialty goods ( for example "Super Ideal" diamonds) charge exponentially more than a production line cutting "average" goods.


I would argue that a website is not necessarily a retail store. Yes, they are selling retail, but they don't have a "store" per se.
This difference facilitates what I called "Bottom Feeders" ...tiny office, with no diamonds in it....or work from your bedroom, set up a website and off you go.
TO open a store takes a far greater commitment.

My seller is not selling from their bedroom lol! Their address is
20 W 47th St in New York where they do in fact have a showroom.

 

[twosanguinehearts]

So I have been in market for a 5+ carat lab diamond. I found one last week but I was stunned at price difference on same stone on line with various vendors.
Of course I purchased with best price vendor. I decided to do a price check experiment today on 2 different stones with exact same IGI certificates.
Both stones came in with very high and very low quotes.( I did not name vendors as I am not sure if allowed)


I color 5.02ct - $16,446 with vendor A
$25,528 with vendor B
a price diff of $9,082


I color 5.13ct - $22,946 vendor A
$26,240 vendor B
$30,020 vendor C
$36,523 vendor D
a price diff up to $13,577!!!!
I find this fascinating. HUGE diffs when you are spending that kind of money. Now tack on taxes and possibly foreign dollar exchanges and Yikes

Do your homework people its worth it!!

You are absolutely right. I've been looking for the same thing as you, and the last stone I was considering was TWENTY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS CHEAPER on a super reputable retailer's website. I saw it there, and then I saw it on Rare Carat and also on a few other retail websites in the higher price range. I did some research and found that the retailer who had it cheaper had MANY of the same stones for significantly less. You're right that it's worth doing some digging to get the best deal!

 

[princessk]

You are absolutely right. I've been looking for the same thing as you, and the last stone I was considering was TWENTY ONE THOUSAND DOLLARS CHEAPER on a super reputable retailer's website. I saw it there, and then I saw it on Rare Carat and also on a few other retail websites in the higher price range. I did some research and found that the retailer who had it cheaper had MANY of the same stones for significantly less. You're right that it's worth doing some digging to get the best deal!

Right? Hard to justify another $21,000 on exact same product. Really it’s the same as new cars. We all shop different dealerships for the same model year color etc. And I know most will buy from the dealership with the best price. Makes sense to me.

 

[Musa15]

Right? Hard to justify another $21,000 on exact same product. Really it’s the same as new cars. We all shop different dealerships for the same model year color etc. And I know most will buy from the dealership with the best price. Makes sense to me.

Just for reference what’s the name of the vendor?

 

[princessk]

Just for reference what’s the name of the vendor?

I will attach name after I receive my ring next week