Did you get a flu shot this year?

[Ellen]

DF, if you don't mind, I'm going to post some other relevant links when I get them sorted out. I've had them bookmarked for years. Please let me know if you don't want them posted.

 

[msop04]

@Ellen...

When in residency year, all Doctor of Pharmacy (PharmD) candidates must do an internship in Drug Information. It is there we learn what references are credible and may be used in additional research. We also learn how to pick apart studies. You may (or may not) be surprised to know that correct data from field studies/trials can be used to give MANY different (and sometimes opposite) opinions or conclusions... depending on the agenda of those "interpreting" the study results.

I see where Ecowatch is described as a "environmental activist group" that "has many legitimate articles," but also "dabbles in pseudoscience"... but I just did a quick google search, as I'd never heard of it before.

https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/ecowatch/

The link provided in the Ecowatch site shows only the abstract of the study with various references and sources. However, no actual study information is present. Maybe I didn't see it?? Every link I clicked on hoping to find full study data to support these claims only gave information to purchase books from the authors of the article or from the scientists whose opinions/findings that were cited in the summary. So, I disagree that these scientists, researchers, and doctors have nothing to gain. It would appear that they'd at least like to sell books. After all, they've just made some serious claims... why not willingly show all the studies? Wait... they are willingly showing it to you... for $59.95 and/or the cost of a subscription to whatever site they run.

I'm not going to get into a back and forth about actual science. I'm never too "proud" to change my views regarding science... that's my field of study, and by its very nature is always changing with new discoveries... that's one of the things I love about it. It would make me a pretty dumb pharmacist to turn my nose up at continuing education. Yes, I've been "told" many things in school, but I also have the background to understand it and not simply hear it and take it "as gospel" or "written in stone." Not everyone has a background in medicine/chemistry/pharmacokinetics, so that's understandable. It's easy to google something and find articles "debunking" basically anything -- just like the site I found saying Ecowatch is BS! Who knows if it is our not... I'm also not saying these individuals are anything less than credible... but credible people can be and have been wrong before. That said, they can also show their entire studies for free if they'd like their claims to be taken more seriously by the scientific community. After all, they're doing this to help humanity, right??

One should always remember that the "benefit vs. risk" factor must be taken into consideration when giving any medication or treatment to a patient. There is always a certain level of risk when introducing ANYTHING into our bodies... be it with ingestion of food, medication, exposure to various elements, etc.

The bottom line is that vaccinations have and continue to save millions of lives. They have eradicated diseases that are grossly debilitating, if not death sentences, to the unfortunate souls who contracted them.

 

[Ellen]

First of all, you have to understand that news like this will NEVER make any MSM outlet. Secondly, while the whole study may not have been linked, there is also numerous references. And quotes about said paper. I suppose they made all that up. Ok, just for (silly) arguments sake, let's say they did. I clicked every single link in that entire article and every single one save one maybe, had credible, and often lengthy info. Many WERE entire studies. But, not ONE had books for sale, or anything else to discredit the artcle or authors. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were trying to write off all the damning evidence against the CDC and mercury, with the stroke of a pen..... But surely not!

The evidence in this article, within the numerous links, IS damning. It's clear that mercury is toxic. It's clear that numerous studies have been done, and show it beyond any reasonable doubt. It's clear that doctors, researchers, and scientists all agree on that. To try and refute all this, is foolish. With all due respect.

And I'm not going to go back and forth either. You're either going to see this for what it IS, or you're going to keep sticking your head in the sand. You're choice.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

I guess where I get hung up on the whole vaccine safety issue is the case of Hannah Poling. In her case she had an underlying mitochondrial disorder that was aggravated by a round of vaccinations and while they said the vaccines didn't cause her autism, the government admitted the vaccines contributed to her diagnosis.

So why then aren't all individuals tested BEFORE vaccinations? Why aren't parents told that although vaccines are "safe" there is a chance they could aggravate an underlying disorder that could cause long term injury? That case should have spawned an immediate investigation into what underlying disorders could be a contraindication to vaccination, but it didn't.

They are not safe for everyone yet we give them to everyone like a multivitamin. It is criminal and the reason that I refuse them for myself and my kids.

 

[Ellen]

I guess where I get hung up on the whole vaccine safety issue is the case of Hannah Poling. In her case she had an underlying mitochondrial disorder that was aggravated by a round of vaccinations and while they said the vaccines didn't cause her autism, the government admitted the vaccines contributed to her diagnosis.

So why then aren't all individuals tested BEFORE vaccinations? Why aren't parents told that although vaccines are "safe" there is a chance they could aggravate an underlying disorder that could cause long term injury? That case should have spawned an immediate investigation into what underlying disorders could be a contraindication to vaccination, but it didn't.

They are not safe for everyone yet we give them to everyone like a multivitamin. It is criminal and the reason that I refuse them for myself and my kids.

Because, that would stop most parents cold in their tracks. Because no parent wants to willingly put their child at risk. And that, would stop the cash flow. We are talking tens of billions of dollars here. And there should have been investigations decades ago, but, for various reasons, it's not gonna happen.

The bottom line is, anyone who lets their child be vaccinated is playing russian roulette with their health and well being.

 

[msop04]

First of all, you have to understand that news like this will NEVER make any MSM outlet. Secondly, while the whole study may not have been linked, there is also numerous references. And quotes about said paper. I suppose they made all that up. Ok, just for (silly) arguments sake, let's say they did. I clicked every single link in that entire article and every single one save one maybe, had credible, and often lengthy info. Many WERE entire studies. But, not ONE had books for sale, or anything else to discredit the artcle or authors. If I didn't know better, I'd say you were trying to write off all the damning evidence against the CDC and mercury, with the stroke of a pen..... But surely not!

The evidence in this article, within the numerous links, IS damning. It's clear that mercury is toxic. It's clear that numerous studies have been done, and show it beyond any reasonable doubt. It's clear that doctors, researchers, and scientists all agree on that. To try and refute all this, is foolish. With all due respect.

And I'm not going to go back and forth either. You're either going to see this for what it IS, or you're going to keep sticking your head in the sand. You're choice.

As I said before, I would imagine that any researcher/scientist/medical professional who would like to be taken seriously by the scientific community would be happy to post any and all data to support his/her theories. I would also say the same of any "news outlet" that posts articles with the hope of "debunking" long-held scientific beliefs -- especially those that can/could potentially harm. Never did I say I believed it was made up. I have no idea what the study was, how it was conducted, or what the actual data/findings were, because it's not made available to the reader. At this point, I cannot make any opinions based only on random quotes from some study that isn't made available for further investigation and study. That's just not how responsible scientific analysis works. I've read MANY "findings" in the past that have been grossly biased even WITH ALL THE DATA SHOWN. If there's anything I learned in Drug Info, it's that you can make ANY STUDY say ANYTHING you'd like if there's an agenda.

...I never saw that "new study" linked. Please post the link, and I'll be happy to read it. Maybe what you read were excerpts from this study, because when I tried to find the entire thing, I was shown a page to purchase the book that it was in.

@Ellen, I'm a professional. My head in not in the sand. If you don't mind me asking, what scientific discipline is your field of study? ...with all due respect.

 

[msop04]

I guess where I get hung up on the whole vaccine safety issue is the case of Hannah Poling. In her case she had an underlying mitochondrial disorder that was aggravated by a round of vaccinations and while they said the vaccines didn't cause her autism, the government admitted the vaccines contributed to her diagnosis.

So why then aren't all individuals tested BEFORE vaccinations? Why aren't parents told that although vaccines are "safe" there is a chance they could aggravate an underlying disorder that could cause long term injury? That case should have spawned an immediate investigation into what underlying disorders could be a contraindication to vaccination, but it didn't.

They are not safe for everyone yet we give them to everyone like a multivitamin. It is criminal and the reason that I refuse them for myself and my kids.

Was the practitioner who ordered the vaccination(s) aware of her mitochondrial disorder? If so, I'm wondering what the likelihood of such exacerbation of her disorder would be... or if it was known to cause such exacerbation? Before giving vaccinations, there is required paperwork for parents to fill out... basically a questionnaire so that the provider will know if there are any underlying disorders or allergies that might be a problem with the vaccine(s) being administered.

I'm curious about this... I will try to find info and read up on this case. Unfortunately, many adverse reactions and contraindications are unknown -- until it is discovered. You are absolutely right about vaccinations not being safe for everyone.

 

[Ellen]

As I said before, I would imagine that any researcher/scientist/medical professional who would like to be taken seriously by the scientific community would be happy to post any and all data to support his/her theories. I would also say the same of any "news outlet" that posts articles with the hope of "debunking" long-held scientific beliefs -- especially those that can/could potentially harm. Never did I say I believed it was made up. I have no idea what the study was, how it was conducted, or what the actual data/findings were, because it's not made available to the reader. At this point, I cannot make any opinions based only on random quotes from some study that isn't made available for further investigation and study. That's just not how responsible scientific analysis works. I've read MANY "findings" in the past that have been grossly biased even WITH ALL THE DATA SHOWN. If there's anything I learned in Drug Info, it's that you can make ANY STUDY say ANYTHING you'd like if there's an agenda.

...I never saw that "new study" linked. Please post the link, and I'll be happy to read it. Maybe what you read were excerpts from this study, because when I tried to find the entire thing, I was shown a page to purchase the book that it was in.

@Ellen, I'm a professional. My head in not in the sand. If you don't mind me asking, what scientific discipline is your field of study? ...with all due respect.

I wasn't referencing that study, it was all the others mentioned. There were other studies mentioned. With findings and quotes from reputable doctors and experts.

Now I'm done with this. You lost any and all credibility trying to make the links out to be selling books. Pretty low MS. But not surprising.

 

[MollyMalone]

Yes, I now have received my flu shot, plus the one for pneumonia.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

@msop04, I don't believe that the physician or possibly the parents knew beforehand. This is the article:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/

It probably doesn't answer a lot of questions but I can tell you that I was not questioned before my son received his Hep B shot in the hospital or his vitamin K shot, I also wasn't questioned when he went for his first shots at his well baby visit, maybe procedure was not followed. I never questioned back then to be honest, I just went along with whatever the doctor said.

 

[Dancing Fire]

DF, if you don't mind, I'm going to post some other relevant links when I get them sorted out. I've had them bookmarked for years. Please let me know if you don't want them posted.

Please do Ellen.

 

[Dancing Fire]

They are not safe for everyone yet we give them to everyone like a multivitamin. It is criminal and the reason that I refuse them for myself and my kids.

Yeah, I'm worry about all these vaccinations that my grandkids are getting nowadays. They'll become a drug addict before they start pre-school.

 

[Dancing Fire]

@Ellen, I'm a professional. My head in not in the sand. If you don't mind me asking, what scientific discipline is your field of study? ...with all due respect.

msop
I understand where you are coming from since your job is in the medical field. We have 4 Pharmacists and 2 Dr. in our immediate family. DD #2 is a RN, and they all try to convince me to get a flu shot every yr ...of course they will not prevail.

 

[msop04]

@msop04, I don't believe that the physician or possibly the parents knew beforehand. This is the article:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/

It probably doesn't answer a lot of questions but I can tell you that I was not questioned before my son received his Hep B shot in the hospital or his vitamin K shot, I also wasn't questioned when he went for his first shots at his well baby visit, maybe procedure was not followed. I never questioned back then to be honest, I just went along with whatever the doctor said.

Thanks so much for posting the link... I'll read it as soon as I can.

Regarding your baby's vaccinations... Unless problems are found in utero or in the short period of time after birth, there wouldn't be anything that would make physicians believe a vaccine would interact or exacerbate something (in other words, any disorders may be unknown)... so that makes sense.

The pediatrician or other provider would have the baby's records from the hospital to be reviewed before any vaccinations or treatment is given at his/her first several visits. Any questions I've answered have been in the office, as my ped has all my toddler's records. He makes notes of any allergies she may have developed and refers to old chart notes each time we have a visit. Also, before she received her flu shot, he asked me (again) if she'd developed any conditions or allergies that he'd need to know about. I know that if she were to receive any vaccinations from another group, I would have to fill out the proper paperwork and have her records forwarded to the new provider. There is always a risk with anything, but there is much much greater risk if your child contracts any of the diseases these vaccinations protect against... especially in the very young, old, and immunocompromised. However, we've already had cases of perfectly healthy teenagers and adults who have died from flu... this year.

It's totally okay to question! I question all the time! They are our babies, and we always want what is best for them. At some point though, we have to trust the professionals when it comes to things we do not/cannot understand. They have spent over a decade in specialty study, and dedicated their lives to the welfare and health of our children.

 

[msop04]

msop
I understand where you are coming from since your job is in the medical field. We have 4 Pharmacists and 2 Dr. in our immediate family. DD #2 is a RN, and they all try to convince me to get a flu shot every yr ...of course they will not prevail.

I understand, DF... however, you are an adult and can make that decision for yourself. Also, if you were to feel ill, you can take yourself to the doc or self treat. Also, pediatric and geriatric patients who fall ill can go downhill fast. Children depend on their parent to vaccinate them for protection of illnesses their little bodies can't fight off as well as adults whose bodies are stronger. I hope you are healthy and do not get sick.

 

[Wewechew]

we've already had cases of perfectly healthy teenagers and adults who have died from flu... this year.

This is the entire reason I started getting flu shots again three years ago. I had always thought it was only the young, infirmed, or elderly that could die from the flu. When my GP told me about healthy teenagers dying from the flu... scary stuff.

 

[Dancing Fire]

I understand, DF... however, you are an adult and can make that decision for yourself. Also, if you were to feel ill, you can take yourself to the doc or self treat. Also, pediatric and geriatric patients who fall ill can go downhill fast. Children depend on their parent to vaccinate them for protection of illnesses their little bodies can't fight off as well as adults whose bodies are stronger. I hope you are healthy and do not get sick.

I'll catch a cold now and then but I don't go running to the Dr. b/c I know there is nothing they can do for a common cold.

 

[msop04]

I wasn't referencing that study, it was all the others mentioned. There were other studies mentioned. With findings and quotes from reputable doctors and experts.

Now I'm done with this. You lost any and all credibility trying to make the links out to be selling books. Pretty low MS. But not surprising.

I know you weren't referencing that study... but the title of the article says it was that "new study" that debunks all that we know about vaccines and their safety.

https://www.ecowatch.com/cdc-mercury-vaccines-kennedy-2226257805.html

The CDC study, Alkyl Mercury-Induced Toxicity: Multiple Mechanisms of Action, appeared last month in the journal, Reviews of Environmental Contamination and Toxicology. The 45-page meta-review of relevant science examines the various ways that mercury harms the human body. Its authors, John F. Risher, PhD, and Pamela Tucker, MD, are researchers in the CDC's Division of Toxicology and Human Health Sciences, Agency for Toxic Substances and Disease Registry.

"This scientific paper is the one of most important pieces of research to come out of the CDC in a decade," Paul Thomas, M.D., a Dartmouth-trained pediatrician who has been practicing medicine for 30 years, said. "It confirms what so many already suspected: that public health officials have been making a terrible mistake in recommending that we expose babies and pregnant women to this neurotoxin. I regret to say that I gave these shots to children. The CDC led us all to believe that it was perfectly safe."

This is the link provided ... but where is the full study??
https://link.springer.com/chapter/10.1007/398_2016_1

If I can't read it, then what would you expect? That I just take their word for it, based on quotes with no context to support it and other outdated study info? I don't know a lot of things, but I'm positive that's not good research. Say whatever you want about my credibility... I feel confident that my understanding is much greater than yours or the lay person (assuming you aren't in the scientific or medical field - but in all fairness, I did ask). And the actual study isn't listed, but was noted to be in a book by the researcher. The study wasn't there, but a link to buy the ebook was.
Here it is... and I was wrong, it's $109, not $59. Or you can just buy the one chapter for $29.95...

https://www.springer.com/us/book/9783319422992?wt_mc=ThirdParty.SpringerLink.3.EPR653.About_eBook

I understand you've made up your mind, and that's okay. I hope you and your loved ones won't get sick as well.

 

[msop04]

This is the entire reason I started getting flu shots again three years ago. I had always thought it was only the young, infirmed, or elderly that could die from the flu. When my GP told me about healthy teenagers dying from the flu... scary stuff.

Gosh, it is so scary! I feel for these families.

 

[YadaYadaYada]

@msop04, I don't want you to take what I'm about to say as aggressive or argumentative because I really appreciate that you have respectfully shared your knowledge without attacking those of us that question vaccines.

However, I did trust the doctors and they failed me by dismissing when my son had an encephalitic cry after his four month shots, when they didn't listen when I told them he would sleep after his vaccines for 18 hours, they didn't refer me to a specialist when I had concerns about his development. I am not one of the many that just googled or read a book and decided it wasn't for us, we actually lived through it. He literally got sick after every round to the point where I had to keep him from school. Since I have stopped vaccinating him he has missed five days of school in six years.

The doctors tell you vaccine injury or adverse outcomes are rare but I also had a "rare" stroke when I was pregnant and lost the central vision in my left eye, rare is comforting until it knocks at your door. I kid you not, Yale treated me and brought in specialists who told me they had never seen what happened to me occur in someone of my age, they had no explanation for it.

So as a mother I'm doing the best I can to protect my kids, a lot of people feel it's abusive and neglectful not to vaccinate. It's not a fun road to travel believe me, I would much rather not have to go against the tide but it would be at the expense of my son's health, and that in our case and IMO would be neglectful and abusive.

I respect what you do and the years of education you have under your belt just please keep in mind that some of us who refuse to vaccinate have very real legitimate reasons.

 

[ksinger]

@msop, you will enjoy this probably. I like this guy for several reasons, but the primary one is his being really good at smoothing the edges, sot to speak, for those of us with minimal/ancient science backgrounds. He addresses junk journals too, a real problem these days it seems.

https://www.painscience.com/articles/bogus-citations.php

 

[lyra]

I am one of the ones that could die if I get an infection of any kind. So please, keep yourselves and your kids at home this flu season if you choose not to be vaccinated for any reason. Otherwise, you are putting too many people at risk. I'm not elderly. I look healthy. I'm on an aggressive biologic for my auto immune disorders. These disorders will shorten my life too. Thanks for thinking of others.

 

[msop04]

@msop04, I don't believe that the physician or possibly the parents knew beforehand. This is the article:

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/family-to-receive-15m-plus-in-first-ever-vaccine-autism-court-award/

It probably doesn't answer a lot of questions but I can tell you that I was not questioned before my son received his Hep B shot in the hospital or his vitamin K shot, I also wasn't questioned when he went for his first shots at his well baby visit, maybe procedure was not followed. I never questioned back then to be honest, I just went along with whatever the doctor said.

I just finished reading all the articles and links from the 2010 piece about Hannah Poling's case from 2000-2002. It appears the neither the parents nor the child's physicians were aware of her mitochondrial disorder, so they had no idea (at the time) that anything they'd give her might complicate it or cause harm.

"In acknowledging Hannah's injuries, the government said vaccines aggravated an unknown mitochondrial disorder Hannah had which didn't "cause" her autism, but "resulted" in it. It's unknown how many other children have similar undiagnosed mitochondrial disorder. All other autism "test cases" have been defeated at trial. Approximately 4,800 are awaiting disposition in federal vaccine court."

The first link to the court case was unavailable: http://www.uscfc.uscourts.gov/sites/default/files/CAMPBELLSMITH. DOE77082710.pdf

Sheryl Attkinsson's report states that the child was "completely normal" before the vaccinations, but in face, she was not. It was later discovered that she had a rare metabolic cell disorder which may have put her at increased risk of injury from vaccines. Otherwise healthy children have shown no adverse effects from said vaccines. Although extremely sad and unfortunate, this appears to be a rare event that may/may not have been caused by her mitochondrial abnormality.

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/vaccine-case-an-exception-or-a-precedent/

I didn't see where it listed her exact condition, but I imagine any mitochondrial disorder would be pretty rare. Was the Poling incident a rare case, or should we try to test for conditions that have shown to have adverse effect or have been contraindicated with certain vaccines? I'm not sure if screening for such rare disorders could be done feasibly beforehand? Maybe someone with more experience with this could elaborate?


Also, I found this excerpt from the TIME article very interesting and particularly relevant...

http://content.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1721109,00.html

"In Hannah's case, the vaccine court determined that the underlying dysfunction of her mitochondria put her at an increased risk of injury from vaccines.

That decision, however, comes as a surprise to experts on mitochondrial disorders. In response to the Poling case, the United Mitochondrial Disease Foundation has released a statement saying, "There are no scientific studies documenting that childhood vaccinations cause mitochondrial diseases or worsen mitochondrial disease symptoms."

Dr. John Shoffner, the Atlanta-based neurologist who identified Hannah Poling's mitochondrial disorder, is "genuinely puzzled" by the court's judgment. Shoffner, who has been studying and treating these disorders for 20 years, says it's impossible to say whether Hannah's mitochondrial disorder was, in fact, a pre-existing condition that set the stage for her autism (as the government contends) or if it developed along with her autism. A specialist in mitochondrial disorders, he is investigating the relationship between autism and these disorders and plans to present a paper on the topic at the annual meeting of the American Academy of Neurology in April. "In some subset of people with ASD — a small group of patients, I think — mitochondrial dysfunction is an important part of their disease. But it's too early to say whether it gets the ball rolling or if it comes about after the ball got rolling."

Experts on autism spectrum disorders believe that most cases are caused by a combination of genetic vulnerabilities and environmental factors. There may be hundreds of roads to autism, involving numerous combinations of genes and external factors.

Could thimerosal or some other aspect of vaccines be one of these factors? "It's always possible that there's a small subset of kids that have this vulnerability," says Dr. Isaac Pessah, director of the Center for Children's Environmental Health and Disease Prevention at the University of California, Davis. Pessah's lab is looking at dozens of possible environmental factors, including pesticides, plastics and flame-retardants. "This is a very emotional debate," he says, "and we need more research directed at these questions."

It's difficult to draw any clear lessons from the case of Hannah Poling, other than the dire need for more research. One plausible conclusion is that pediatricians should avoid giving small children a large number of vaccines at once, even if they are thimerosal-free. Young children have an immature immune system that's ill-equipped to handle an overload, says Dr. Judy Van de Water, an immunologist who works with Pessah at U.C. Davis. "Some vaccines, such as those aimed at viral infections, are designed to ramp up the immune system at warp speed," she says. "They are designed to mimic the infection. So you can imagine getting nine at one time, how sick you could be." In addition, she says, there's some evidence, that children who develop autism may have immune systems that are particularly slow to mature.

Van de Water worries that current vaccine schedules may be overly aggressive for some children. She suggests that parents who are concerned about vaccine safety ask their pediatricians to give fewer at a time. And, she adds, don't vaccinate a child when he or she is ill.

 

[msop04]

@msop, you will enjoy this probably. I like this guy for several reasons, but the primary one is his being really good at smoothing the edges, sot to speak, for those of us with minimal/ancient science backgrounds. He addresses junk journals too, a real problem these days it seems.

https://www.painscience.com/articles/bogus-citations.php

Oh my! Thanks for posting!! This is SPOT. ON.

I especially loved these:

The junk cite: reference to junk science in “real” but terrible journals, only technically “peer-reviewed science,” but peer-reviewed badly. This is science done by hacks and quacks, and approved for publication by their highly biased and unqualified peers, for a rag of a journal that exists just to publish what real journals won’t touch. Alt-med has thousands of these. The emphasis in alt-med research is on setting the bar low enough to get over it without anyone but those nasty skeptics noticing.

The bluff (A.K.A. “the name drop”): citation selected at random from a famous scientific journal like The New England Journal of Medicine… because no one actually checks references, do they?

The ego trip: cite your own work … which in turn cites only your own work … and so on …

The uncheckable: citing a chapter in a book no one can or would ever want to actually read, because it has a title like Gaussian-Verdian Analysis of Phototropobloggospheric Keynsian Infidelivitalismness… and it’s been out of print for decades and it’s in Russian.
(ADDED: ...or you have to buy it)

The dump cite: many, many references. A reference dump is meant to overwhelm rhetorical opposition with sheer volume — too many to meaningfully evaluate or respond to.

Famously, “Most Published Research Findings Are False,” even when there’s nothing obviously wrong with them. It’s amazing how many ways “good” studies can still be bad, how easily they can go wrong, or be made to go wrong, by well-intentioned researchers trying to prove pet theories. Musculoskeletal medicine is plagued by junky, underpowered studies with “positive” results that just aren’t credible — all they do is muddy the waters.

So beware of citations to a smaller number of small studies, even if there’s nothing obviously wrong with them.

 

[Calliecake]

StephanieLynn, I’m sorry for all you have been through.

I’ve often wondered why they give children multiple vaccines at one time. @msop04 Do you hear other people worrying about this?

I have a family member whose immune system is severely comprised. I get the flu shot because I’m around him, elderly parents and a preschooler often. It’s the least I can do if it helps keep them healthy. My parents have been hospitized the past few years during flu season. They got very sick very quickly.

 

[msop04]

I'll catch a cold now and then but I don't go running to the Dr. b/c I know there is nothing they can do for a common cold.

...and not taking antibiotics at every cough or viral cold is very responsible, as years of this has led to bacterial resistance. We can certainly agree on that!

 

[msop04]

StephanieLynn, I’m sorry for all you have been through.

I’ve often wondered why they give children multiple vaccines at one time. @msop04 Do you hear other people worrying about this?

I have a family member whose immune system is severely comprised. I get the flu shot because I’m around him, elderly parents and a preschooler often. It’s the least I can do if it helps keep them healthy. My parents have been hospitized the past few years during flu season. They got very sick very quickly.

Yes, I have read and heard of other people being concerned about the amount of vaccines given in a single visit. My ped does give them per schedule, but he and the other docs in his group are happy to space them out a bit if the parent has concerns. It's also good to choose a ped who will agree to space them out if you are concerned... as some will not.

Kudos to you for doing the responsible thing to protect those around you. I'm so sorry to hear that your parents have been so ill... it can progress so quickly - very scary indeed.

 

[Dancing Fire]

Yes, I have read and heard of other people being concerned about the amount of vaccines given in a single visit. My ped does give them per schedule, but he and the other docs in his group are happy to space them out a bit if the parent has concerns. It's also good to choose a ped who will agree to space them out if you are concerned... as some will not.

That's what I advise my daughters to do with their baby.

 

[Ellen]

If I can't read it, then what would you expect? That I just take their word for it, based on quotes with no context to support it and other outdated study info? I don't know a lot of things, but I'm positive that's not good research. Say whatever you want about my credibility... I feel confident that my understanding is much greater than yours or the lay person (assuming you aren't in the scientific or medical field - but in all fairness, I did ask). And the actual study isn't listed, but was noted to be in a book by the researcher. The study wasn't there, but a link to buy the ebook was.

You're right, and I really mean that. I am truly regretful that I did not realize first that full access was not available. My bad. Only someone with a death wish would do something like that.

I will not address anything else, as it would be pointless. What truths are ever presented, by me or others, is never recognized.

 

[missy]

This is difficult subject because there are shades of gray. I see both points of view and in fact struggled with the decision to get a flu vaccination this year.
Both viewpoints have merit and contain truths.

Yes, Mercury is harmful. Yes, preservatives can be harmful. Yes, I would never blindly follow any physician's advice. We are always our own best advocate and the best advocate for our children. We must do our due diligence. And I for one appreciate others bringing up different points of view with info and studies backing those points of view.

I am a science person with a medical background so I often fall on the side of conventional medicine but if there is one thing I learned these past few years it is conventional medicine is fallible and often wrong and can harm those it is trying to help. Sticking to outdated facts that no longer apply and not being open to new info showing new truths. Instead taking the best from conventional medicine and from eastern/holistic medicine is often the way to go.

I applaud those of you here who are open to learning from both sides because there is truth on both sides.
And I appreciate all those posting here despite it being difficult and not having the "popular" opinion. @Ellen I always appreciate your posts even if I may not always completely agree with them. I always appreciate you and what you have to share.

As for vaccines while I am generally pro vaccination I don't think one size fits all. As with many issues the individual has to weigh the pros and cons and decide what is best for them. Though one thing I will add there are certain diseases where when we choose not to get vaccinated can affect the most helpless among us (infants and the elderly) so that is something to be cognizant of while evaluating what is the best choice.