Did you get a flu shot this year?

[AGBF]

Frankly, the idea of allowing people to contract a highly contagious and dangerous disease that can be easily prevented due to fear mongering and anti-science ramblings is bizarre.

Measles is a serious disease. It can cause deafness. It causes encephalitis in 1 out of every 1000 children infected. This is fatal in many cases, and when it is not fatal, it results in permanent brain damage. It can cause pregnant women to lose their babies. 2 out of every 1000 children infected will die from complications like pneumonia and/or encephalitis. Of those who survive, the virus goes latent (like chickenpox and cold sores, it never entirely goes away once you are infected), and can recur to cause long term complications like subacute sclerosing panencephalitis which is a fatal neurological disease. Caused by having measles earlier in life.

@Ellen, I am so sorry that your baby died of SIDS. I wish we understood it better. Most research these days (yes, I know, from those of us you do not trust, but who truly, really, honestly, are just dedicating our lives to making the world better for everyone else) suggests that it is likely due to a combination of respiratory problems due to a number of possible factors (low birth weight, environmental pollutants, respiratory infections, possible neurological defects in the sleep center of the brain, obstruction due to overly soft sleeping surfaces) and sleeping position, which is why we no longer put babies on their stomachs (we think that for some this may inadvertently make it difficult for them to breathe). The "back to sleep" program that encouraged parents to put babies to sleep on their backs rather than their stomachs the way we were taught to in the 70's and 80's has dramatically reduced the number of SIDS deaths since the 1990's. So fighting for something that will result in many more children dead (because 2 deaths out of every 1000 infected in an airborne, highly contagious disease would result in millions of children dying every year without vaccinations) and latching onto stuff from the internet that is not only not true but designed to fuel this anti-sciences frenzy is not helpful - to you, or to anyone else. Nor will it prevent another mother from suffering the horrific loss of their child to SIDS. The Back to Sleep program has done more on that front than all other efforts combined.

If it helps you to have some trust in the medical field, health care is NOT a for-profit enterprise in any other country but the US. Every other country but the US that has government funded health care is working tirelessly on issues of population health to *prevent* overuse of the system so that we can continue to offer the same quality of healthcare to everyone that people expect and deserve. So this constant accusation that the medical system is just out to make people sick in order to make money is bizarre and simply not true. Large scale epidemiological studies are also generally conducted world wide, and the World Health Organization adopts policies and puts out position papers based on replicated research across places and cultures. So think what you will of your own CDC. They are only one of many organizations in the world who are conducting the kind of research that anti-science, anti-vaccination people don't want to believe.

Thank you for this thoughtful post, cmd.

Deb/AGBF

 

[MeowMeow]

Even I found that first thing a bit confusing. Probably because there were too many unspecified pronouns, it was not all that clear whether the "he" being un-declared a "unqualified quack", was Dr. Smith, or former Dr. Wakefield. Smith is the guy who was a co-author of the Lancet paper, and the one who was reinstated. Wakefield, on the other hand, remains barred from practicing in the UK - is still an unqualified quack, and is apparently living in a place much more amenable (and lucrative) to getting away with reality-denial: The US. In Texas.

Yay. "murcah. Hmmm...maybe it IS time to re-think the immigration issue....

Oh, and measles is now in Fort Worth! Woot!

Fort Worth? Military base area? That's bad news We live on a joint base. I don't want that sh*t coming here from there x.x or to anywhere really... Time to stay inside for the next 3 months at least. (3/4s a joke lol...)

 

[cmd2014]

Fort Worth? Military base area? That's bad news We live on a joint base. I don't want that sh*t coming here from there x.x or to anywhere really... Time to stay inside for the next 3 months at least. (3/4s a joke lol...)

I had been under the impression that he was in jail. Wasn't he criminally prosecuted for fraud? My recall of the case is that he had been working on a patent for a new measles mumps and rubella vaccine (for a competitor of the vaccine that was commonly in use at the time), and wanted to discredit the existing one in order to stand to make huge profits (for himself or the company who hired him) from his version of the vaccine. I know for sure the British Medical Association found him guilty of professional misconduct and stripped him of his licence to practice. Which if you knew anything about medical disciplinary hearings, you would know is a step that is rarely taken - the more typical approach is to temporarily suspend until certain courses are taken, followed by a period of supervised practice and finally reinstatement without restrictions. Stripping of one's medical license typically only occurs in the most heinous of cases or following multiple findings of misconduct. The Lancet also took an unprecedented step in retracting his article and loudly and publicly decrying its findings, and efforts were made to publicize this in the media to try to undo the massive amount of harm that he had caused. So it baffles me that he is still painted as some kind of victim by the anti-vaxxer movement. (and the fact that they spell it "anti-vaxxer" kind of says it all, doesn't it?).

This is terrifying:

https://www.sbs.com.au/news/anti-vaxxer-movement-fuelling-global-resurgence-of-measles-say-who

https://www.vox.com/first-person/20...es-outbreak-2019-clark-county-wa-anti-vaxxers

 

[msop04]

Frankly, the idea of allowing people to contract a highly contagious and dangerous disease that can be easily prevented due to fear mongering and anti-science ramblings is bizarre.

Measles is a serious disease. It can cause deafness. It causes encephalitis in 1 out of every 1000 children infected. This is fatal in many cases, and when it is not fatal, it results in permanent brain damage. It can cause pregnant women to lose their babies. 2 out of every 1000 children infected will die from complications like pneumonia and/or encephalitis. Of those who survive, the virus goes latent (like chickenpox and cold sores, it never entirely goes away once you are infected), and can recur to cause long term complications like subacute sclerosing panencephalitis which is a fatal neurological disease. Caused by having measles earlier in life.

@Ellen, I am so sorry that your baby died of SIDS. I wish we understood it better. Most research these days (yes, I know, from those of us you do not trust, but who truly, really, honestly, are just dedicating our lives to making the world better for everyone else) suggests that it is likely due to a combination of respiratory problems due to a number of possible factors (low birth weight, environmental pollutants, respiratory infections, possible neurological defects in the sleep center of the brain, obstruction due to overly soft sleeping surfaces) and sleeping position, which is why we no longer put babies on their stomachs (we think that for some this may inadvertently make it difficult for them to breathe). The "back to sleep" program that encouraged parents to put babies to sleep on their backs rather than their stomachs the way we were taught to in the 70's and 80's has dramatically reduced the number of SIDS deaths since the 1990's. So fighting for something that will result in many more children dead (because 2 deaths out of every 1000 infected in an airborne, highly contagious disease would result in millions of children dying every year without vaccinations) and latching onto stuff from the internet that is not only not true but designed to fuel this anti-sciences frenzy is not helpful - to you, or to anyone else. Nor will it prevent another mother from suffering the horrific loss of their child to SIDS. The Back to Sleep program has done more on that front than all other efforts combined.

If it helps you to have some trust in the medical field, health care is NOT a for-profit enterprise in any other country but the US. Every other country but the US that has government funded health care is working tirelessly on issues of population health to *prevent* overuse of the system so that we can continue to offer the same quality of healthcare to everyone that people expect and deserve. So this constant accusation that the medical system is just out to make people sick in order to make money is bizarre and simply not true. Large scale epidemiological studies are also generally conducted world wide, and the World Health Organization adopts policies and puts out position papers based on replicated research across places and cultures. So think what you will of your own CDC. They are only one of many organizations in the world who are conducting the kind of research that anti-science, anti-vaccination people don't want to believe.

Thanks for this post, @cmd2014.

 

[ksinger]

Fort Worth? Military base area? That's bad news We live on a joint base. I don't want that sh*t coming here from there x.x or to anywhere really... Time to stay inside for the next 3 months at least. (3/4s a joke lol...)

The stuff I have found on the case says that the location was not given so as to protect patient confidentiality, so unless you've read something different, we don't know exactly where the case was.

All I know it Dallas/Fort Worth is way too close for comfort for me in OKC.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article225631720.html

 

[MeowMeow]

The stuff I have found on the case says that the location was not given so as to protect patient confidentiality, so unless you've read something different, we don't know exactly where the case was.

All I know it Dallas/Fort Worth is way too close for comfort for me in OKC.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article225631720.html

Dunno. Sounds like you knew more than me. I didn't even know measles was even a thing anymore. So when you said Fort Worth area I was like *facepalm* because people get stationed there and leave every day and move bases. Which means anybody who had been exposed could go just about anywhere. Including to the joint base I live on since we have all branches here. Which makes me want to hermit up even more than I usually do since I have a 9 month old baby.

 

[AV_]

@MeowMeow You could have your immunity tested anyway.

What a story!

 

[MeowMeow]

@MeowMeow You could have your immunity tested anyway.

What a story!

I know some of my immunities were tested once they confirmed pregnancy when they drew my blood. I remember them rattling off a list. Don't remember if measles was on it. But I think you bring up a great point and I'm going to try to check with my PCM on that.
I am more concerned about my baby because her immune system is still learning and if we were to be exposed it would probably be more hazardous for her than me

 

[whitewave]

https://www.facebook.com/407504242094/posts/10156872598527095/

Z dogg md ripping anti vaxers

 

[AGBF]

All I know it Dallas/Fort Worth is way too close for comfort for me in OKC.

https://www.star-telegram.com/news/state/texas/article225631720.html

Great nephew and his partner live in Richardson, Texas. Partner is an MD. No one told me about this.

 

[ksinger]

Great nephew and his partner live in Richardson, Texas. Partner is an MD. No one told me about this.

It's a very recent thing, like reported yesterday? I think there have been 5 confirmed cases statewide in TX, but the one in Dallas-Ft Worth is the newest, so that's likely why you've not heard.

 

[AV_]

@MeowMeow I know nothing about what a pediatrician might recommend for an infant younger than the recommended vaccination age. Likely worth asking. I assume that your immunity does transfer to some extent, but never had to know.

-

As for the anti vaccine movement, it does not quite surprise me that it exists, & still ... - right up there with the many astonishing truths of these times; it could be a joke, much like the claims that the respective diseases have been eradicated .

 

[lyra]

Emergency declaration in Washington state.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/06/us/measles-outbreak.html

 

[whitewave]

Emergency declaration in Washington state.
https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/06/us/measles-outbreak.html

Also,whenever a suspected measles patient has ridden in an ambulance or has gone to a clinic, the ambulance and clinic have to be un used for 3 hours to disinfect everything. So anti vaxxers are causing this catastrophe and are also prohibiting timely medical care in some cases to other people.

 

[evergreen]

An interesting analysis: a psychiatrist, writing in Psychology Today (with non-YouTube references), puts it all together pretty comprehensively... Science denial and antivax He gets at the point that this is representative of a larger (and globally dangerous) problem of science denialism combined with the power of internet "echo chambers" and, a new term to me, "motivated reasoning" replacing objectivity.

I hope measles stays away from here... Even though we're all vaccinated, my neighbor's sister, with whom she is very close, just started chemo. Everyone knows someone who has to rely on herd immunity. Everyone.

 

[missy]

I hope measles stays away from here... Even though we're all vaccinated, my neighbor's sister, with whom she is very close, just started chemo. Everyone knows someone who has to rely on herd immunity. Everyone.

Yup this is completely true. My dh has gotten the measles vaccination twice but it never took as evidenced by blood results. So he is vulnerable to the measles and that would not be a great thing to be dealing with at his age.

 

[ksinger]

An interesting analysis: a psychiatrist, writing in Psychology Today (with non-YouTube references), puts it all together pretty comprehensively... Science denial and antivax He gets at the point that this is representative of a larger (and globally dangerous) problem of science denialism combined with the power of internet "echo chambers" and, a new term to me, "motivated reasoning" replacing objectivity.

I hope measles stays away from here... Even though we're all vaccinated, my neighbor's sister, with whom she is very close, just started chemo. Everyone knows someone who has to rely on herd immunity. Everyone.

You should like this then. It's also about motivated reasoning and the anti-vax movement specifically, and has a lot of general stuff about science-denial.
https://respectfulinsolence.com/2011/05/09/motivated-reasoning-and-the-anti-vaccine/

And I've said it before on here, I'm in the not-so-sweet spot of having the vaccine between '63 or '67, so not sure if I got the effective vaccine or not. And I'm on a medication that doesn't quite suppress my immune system in the strict sense, but still, I suspect measles would make mincemeat of it. And then almost everyone has to be concerned with the waning of immunity that just comes from the years. Adults don't typically have to have boosters when herd immunity is solid and ongoing. But right now, I'm seriously considering talking to my doctor about the risks of me getting the measles vaccine, if it turns out that I'm not actually protected (as I suspect). I'm not supposed to have live vaccine, but then I never thought I'd have to be concerned about LIVE measles in the wild either.

And while I've long known about the serious complications of measles at the time of infection, some to the point of hospitalization or death, it was only a few months ago when I learned of the real horror: SSPE (subacute sclerosing panencephalitis). OMG. As a parent, to live in that hell of wait and worry for up to a decade? I can't even imagine.

And for a few very dark laughs, this is what happens when the early indoctrination just doesn't take.

Children of Anti-Vaxxers Tell Their Stories
https://twentytwowords.com/children-of-anti-vaxxers-respond-to-their-parents-philosophy/

 

[telephone89]

And for a few very dark laughs, this is what happens when the early indoctrination just doesn't take.

Children of Anti-Vaxxers Tell Their Stories
https://twentytwowords.com/children-of-anti-vaxxers-respond-to-their-parents-philosophy/

Wow that was kind of a horrifying read. So many of those people nearly died because of their parents =\

 

[AGBF]

I thought that the attached article might be of interest to people who were following this thread. It is about the Governor of Kentucky, Matt Bevin, deliberately exposing his nine children to chickenpox.

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/03/21/us/kentucky-governor-chickenpox.html