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DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."?

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bd6845

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Hello!

I submitted an inquiry to DiamondPro for help choosing a stone. I'm looking for around 1.8 G, VS2 Round budget 18-19k. They immediately shot down my reserved stone at WF because they couldn't personally recommend buying from WF at all. Does anyone know why this is? They haven't responded when I asked why. WF seems to be fairly highly regarded on Pricescope,
especially ACA diamonds. Is it likely that they just aren't affiliated and can't make money from recommending WF stones?
 

kenny

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

bd6845|1451681486|3969363 said:
Hello!

I submitted an inquiry to DiamondPro for help choosing a stone. I'm looking for around 1.8 G, VS2 Round budget 18-19k. They immediately shot down my reserved stone at WF because they couldn't personally recommend buying from WF at all. Does anyone know why this is? They haven't responded when I asked why. WF seems to be fairly highly regarded on Pricescope,
especially ACA diamonds. Is it likely that they just aren't affiliated and can't make money from recommending WF stones?

I'm sure they only recommend diamonds from vendors that give them a kickback.

Follow the money.

BTW, we do what they do ... for free ... and we do it with no kickbacks.
I believe PS does get paid by vendors if they put their inventory in PS's Diamond search database but I and 99% of the posters here get paid nothing to help you find a stone.

Folks here will make recommendations for your budget and specs.
 

Andelain

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

bd6845|1451681486|3969363 said:
Hello!

I submitted an inquiry to DiamondPro for help choosing a stone. I'm looking for around 1.8 G, VS2 Round budget 18-19k. They immediately shot down my reserved stone at WF because they couldn't personally recommend buying from WF at all. Does anyone know why this is? They haven't responded when I asked why. WF seems to be fairly highly regarded on Pricescope,
especially ACA diamonds. Is it likely that they just aren't affiliated and can't make money from recommending WF stones?

That's exactly what it seems like to me, and it completely discredits them in my eyes..
 

bd6845

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Yeah I found them when I first started researching diamonds because their articles were some of the first results on Google but once I found PS I knew this was where the real information is. I was just concerned because my favorite diamond so far is a Whiteflash stone I saw in-store. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some giant red flag regarding Whiteflash...
 

kenny

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

bd6845|1451682102|3969368 said:
Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some giant red flag regarding Whiteflash...

I bought a diamond from WF and I found everything about the experience to be excellent ... especially the ACA diamond. :love:
 

Andelain

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

bd6845|1451682102|3969368 said:
Yeah I found them when I first started researching diamonds because their articles were some of the first results on Google but once I found PS I knew this was where the real information is. I was just concerned because my favorite diamond so far is a Whiteflash stone I saw in-store. Just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing some giant red flag regarding Whiteflash...

You're not. I've bought several stones from them, and they've always been great to work with. I've even worked with their custom shop, ad the result was awesome.
 

pittin

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

I recently purchased my first diamond from Whiteflash. It is an A Cut Above diamond and I am super impressed with the whole experience. The ACA quality is beyond my expectations. You really can't go wrong.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

I've been here almost ten years this month. I have bought several stones from Whiteflash because they have outstanding diamonds. I really resent sites that put down diamonds that are perfectly great just because they make money for the stones they recommend. That is NOT a site that is offering a consumer service, they are a money making business. I don't know who owns that one, but I'd suggest coming here for free advice from people who gain nothing from helping you. We do it because it is our hobby!
 

bd6845

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Y'all are great, thank you! I'll continue posting here on my Search for the perfect stone!
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Great, we are happy to help! I did find on one page of that site the vendors they are affiliated with which explains why that one is not a true consumer education site. This one does have advertising vendors, but they are not allowed to promote their diamonds here and no one here is allowed to be paid for our advice. If you post a diamond from a local store, we will give you an opinion on the cut if you provide the GIA or AGS report and help you find out if the price is right. We only advise you not to buy diamonds that are not well cut (or some other flaw) or are overpriced.
 

centrifuge41

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Whiteflash has fantastically cut stones. The "A Cut Above" and a lot of the "Expert Selection" all look fantastic. However, you do pay a premium for the guarantee of a fantastically cut stone.

What does Diamonds.pro recommend? James Allen and Brian Gavin? (Both given 5 out of 5 review). Brian Gavin also has super ideal cut stones, similar to White Flash. You're also paying a premium for that guarantee.

If you have the time and patience, you could manually sort through the "Ideal" stones on James Allen, and you can find fantastically well cut stones too. They'll probably cost less, for similarly spec'd stones, compared to White Flash and Brian Gavin. That's because you're manually putting in the time and effort to find super-ideals that are labeled "merely" Ideal.

On the flop side, you're probably paying more for the spec vs. Blue Nile, because James Allen offers those images (and sometimes, additional info too, if you request it and if the stone is in NY). So in a way, you're paying for more service/guarantee/info when you choose White Flash over James Allen, and again, more for service/info when choosing James Allen over Blue Nile. So for some, White Flash or Brian Gavin is what's right for them, and for others, James Allen is what's right for them. We don't really recommend Blue Nile though, because buying blind is a big drawback, so it's worth paying extra for the ability to see what we're buying. No matter what though, White Flash is a much better value than Hearts on Fire :tongue:
 

kenny

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

centrifuge41|1451686022|3969389 said:
No matter what though, White Flash is a much better value than Hearts on Fire :tongue:


I've heard of wallets on fire. :lol:
 

february2003bride

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

I would not hesitate to buy from Whiteflash (and have bought from them!) and have recommended them to family and friends. I've had some of the best customer service and gorgeous settings and diamonds from them. If you need help finding a diamond, please post what you are looking for and many members here will help you find a gorgeous diamond within your budget.
 

yssie

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Another long-timer who is very, very happy with multiple WF purchases. Their ACAs are premium stones with light return that will blow you away - they're in the leagues of the best of the absolute best. Their customer service is wonderful, their workmanship is excellent, their benefits and policies are generous, and I can think of no objective reason not to recommend them whatsoever ::)
 

AprilBaby

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

I have 4 WF diamonds and I highly Recommend!
 

m-2-b

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

You should have no worries purchasing WF diamonds since I can speak from my own personal experience also!
 

marcy

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

I have 5 ACA diamonds and several custom rings from Whiteflash. I am very happy with them and Whiteflash is fabulous to work with.
 

ame

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

I don't know that blog, what makes this person a "pro?" Further, who knows what his reasoning is. Maybe it is affiliate links, maybe it's a poor experience with them. Either way that's crazy. Regulars here know I personally am not their biggest fan, not because of diamonds--they're still amazing, because Brian Gavin developed those and he knows his stuff, but because I had a poor experience on the jewelry manufacturing end and the followup after the sale dealing with it.

So as a result of THAT, they're usually not who I go to first when I am recommending a vendor. BUT if the stone meets the needs of a poster, I am not going to say "DON'T BUY IT!" Personally, I like to suggest GOG, HPD and I've since had great experiences with BGD. Those are who I go to first and foremost. I think GOG gives the most data of anyone out there, the videos, all the reports, they do so much legwork to show you what you're buying. Besides that, the range of what they offer is unbeatable. As you all know, I like the "weird" stuff. I just like my "weird stuff" perfectly cut.

RE: Hearts slash wallets on Fire are NOT even that well cut--they claim all over that they're perfectly cut, and done at 100x mag--well if that's the case, why are your arrows and hearts not clean and symmetrical and why are so many clipped? Clearly if you're putting out wonky arrows and wonky hearts, you're not in focus when you're cutting.
 

mrs-b

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

centrifuge41|1451686022|3969389 said:
We don't really recommend Blue Nile though, because buying blind is a big drawback, so it's worth paying extra for the ability to see what we're buying. No matter what though, White Flash is a much better value than Hearts on Fire :tongue:

Untrue. I always recommend Blue Nile for people buying on a budget. I have said a hundred times - and will continue to say - that I have a wealth of experience with them - ALL good - and some of my most beautiful stones are from them, including my latest stone, which is in various threads on SMTB.

Having said that, I would also definitely recommend White Flash, with whom I have also done business. Super nice people and a terrific product.
 

Paul-Antwerp

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

DiamondPro is an affiliate-marketing-site. Its old name used to be truthaboutdiamonds, which might ring a bell with some here.

Affiliate marketing sites are relatively new in our field. I think you can compare them to having a family-friend in the business.

General advice here on PS is not to trust a 'family-friend in the business', but I would venture to say that this is unfair to a small percentage of such family-friends. Same is probaby true about affiliates, exceptions will give you good advice and assistance, the majority is only in it for the easiest possible and biggest commission.

Live long,
 

february2003bride

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

mrs-blop|1451717314|3969545 said:
centrifuge41|1451686022|3969389 said:
We don't really recommend Blue Nile though, because buying blind is a big drawback, so it's worth paying extra for the ability to see what we're buying. No matter what though, White Flash is a much better value than Hearts on Fire :tongue:

Untrue. I always recommend Blue Nile for people buying on a budget. I have said a hundred times - and will continue to say - that I have a wealth of experience with them - ALL good - and some of my most beautiful stones are from them, including my latest stone, which is in various threads on SMTB.

Having said that, I would also definitely recommend White Flash, with whom I have also done business. Super nice people and a terrific product.

100% agree. And you aren't buying totally blind. I have bought 3 diamonds from BN and got photos for all three. I did not request a sarin report because I felt confident using online tools to help determine if it was the right stone for me, but I have read online some people have been able to obtain them. BN only sells GIA/AGS stones, their Signature Ideal stones are drop dead gorgeous, their 30 day return policy is generous and their customer service is wonderful. BN is a fantastic and reputable site.
 

bd6845

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Just to keep everyone updated when I asked why they said we refuse to make ANY a comment regarding Whiteflash. Pretty sketchy.
 

ame

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

Feb03Bride|1451755936|3969689 said:
mrs-blop|1451717314|3969545 said:
centrifuge41|1451686022|3969389 said:
We don't really recommend Blue Nile though, because buying blind is a big drawback, so it's worth paying extra for the ability to see what we're buying. No matter what though, White Flash is a much better value than Hearts on Fire :tongue:

Untrue. I always recommend Blue Nile for people buying on a budget. I have said a hundred times - and will continue to say - that I have a wealth of experience with them - ALL good - and some of my most beautiful stones are from them, including my latest stone, which is in various threads on SMTB.

Having said that, I would also definitely recommend White Flash, with whom I have also done business. Super nice people and a terrific product.

100% agree. And you aren't buying totally blind. I have bought 3 diamonds from BN and got photos for all three. I did not request a sarin report because I felt confident using online tools to help determine if it was the right stone for me, but I have read online some people have been able to obtain them. BN only sells GIA/AGS stones, their Signature Ideal stones are drop dead gorgeous, their 30 day return policy is generous and their customer service is wonderful. BN is a fantastic and reputable site.
While not my favorite or first choice, they are a good source for Canadian and European buyers who don't want to deal with import taxes, etc. as well. On another forum I post regularly on, the Canadian and EU posters are often in a position where that is the only financially feasible source for them.

I do find it strange that being around as long as they have, that Blue Nile has not gotten on the stick with the photography. Surely by now they have figured out a solution to get decent images of what they're selling up and they're simply choosing not to.
 

ame

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

bd6845|1451774236|3969780 said:
Just to keep everyone updated when I asked why they said we refuse to make ANY a comment regarding Whiteflash. Pretty sketchy.
Yea, there is something up there.
 

diamondseeker2006

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

ame|1451776635|3969794 said:
bd6845|1451774236|3969780 said:
Just to keep everyone updated when I asked why they said we refuse to make ANY a comment regarding Whiteflash. Pretty sketchy.
Yea, there is something up there.

It's very simple, they list on the site which vendors pay them!
 

gm89uk

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

A google search with "whiteflash site:diamonds.pro"

finds https://www.diamonds.pro/2012/10/24/qa-questions-about-eye-clean-fluorescence-and-yellow-color/

Q: Enquiring about white flash diamond.

"Definitely buying online is your best bet. We’re not big fans of Whiteflash as we’ve had some less than stellar experiences with them. If you want to spend the extra money to get a super-ideal Hearts & Arrows cut, then I would recommend Brian Gavin. We’re big fans of theirs."

and again on another section

https://www.diamonds.pro/2012/11/17/qa-looking-for-round-brian-gavin-diamond-1-7-2-carats/

Q: "[WHITEFLASH ASKED US TO REMOVE THE LINK]"
"We’ve had some less than stellar experiences with WF, so we no longer refer people to them. But lets say we found that diamond on BGD"

So it seems more than just affiliation, just some sort of professional/personal feud; which is disheartening to put customers off beautiful diamonds because of some behind closed door reason that does not concern customers. If it really is a reason that DOES concern customers, then they should be transparent about it. If it's because he didn't receive WFs Christmas card then this is unnecessary defamation, and if I worked at WF, I wouldn't be best pleased!
 

Paul-Antwerp

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

We are all, consumers and professionals, spoiled in a positive way by years of PS-experience. PS is a place where rules apply, and while every consumer is free to voice his or her opinion, the fact that open discussion about these opinions is possible, creates an environment of certain reliability.

When reading affiliate-marketing-sites, we must all be aware that this is a completely different environment. Opinions on such sites are highly personal, without public checks or balances, and only have one goal: to create maximum dollar-gain for the affiliate-site itself.

I can only advise to take all statements on such sites with a huge grain of salt. The ultimate goal is always go get the consumer deciding for a purchase through the affiliate-site, with least possible effort from the affiliate-site.

Hard to make a distinction between affiliates and a 'family friend in the business'. For sure, some family-friends will give great assistance, but the majority does not.

Live long,
 

iraweissman

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

I debated with myself whether or not to reply to this thread, but in the end, I felt it was necessary to defend our name being besmirched here on PS.

My name is Ira Weissman. I am the founder of Truth About Diamonds that is now known as The Diamond Pro. I no longer play an active role in the day to day operation of the site. My former colleague from Leo Schachter diamonds (where we were trained professionally and worked together), Michael Fried, now runs the site.

Many of the comments on this thread focus on two points:
1) That WF diamonds are great!
2) We must say what we do about them because we don't work with them.

To the first point, I would like to state clearly for the record that I think that WF diamonds are fantastic. Their ACAs are just as good as everyone else's super ideals. Diamond quality was never the issue.

To the second point, I want to state for the record that we used to be affiliated with them, but we broke off the relationship. In order for the affiliate relationship to work, there has to be 100% trust between the parties. We lost that trust in them. Why that is the case will remain private - primarily due to fears of being hit with a libel lawsuit.

I would also like to state that in July of 2015, we were contacted by WF offering us more favorable terms than what they share with other affiliates, but we declined their offer because of what transpired in the earlier incidents.

Every day we receive emails from readers who have already chosen diamonds from vendors we are not affiliated with asking us if it's a good choice. In every case, if their choice is a better deal than anything we can find on an affiliated site, we will happily confirm their choice. We know that our reputation is of the utmost importance and we do everything we can to be objective. We write about this in our article entitled The Truth About The Diamond Pro linked to from every content page with the link text "Read why we are doing this for free." Our reputation is worth so much more than any individual commission.

I'm sure all of you who commented that are customers of WF really did have amazing experiences. I'm sure they do their honest best to give every customer the best possible experience. Our experience with them, through our business relationship, though, gave us enough concern to not be able to recommend diamonds from them, or even confirm a reader's selection from them. Does violating the trust of a business relationship necessarily mean that they would ever violate a customer's trust? Probably not. But we're not willing to take any chances when someone comes to us for advice.

I fully admit that WF would have a different perspective on what happened and feels they have legitimate reasons for how they treated us. That's fine. Our goal was never to drag them through the mud. We don't write anything obviously negative about them on our site. We only respond this way privately if someone asks us about them.

Honestly, I would prefer if this whole thread would be taken down. I don't like writing even this much publicly. I regret that the OP wrote what he did and the ensuing conversation forced me to respond to defend our business.
 

kenny

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

iraweissman|1451932477|3970484 said:
I debated with myself whether or not to reply to this thread, but in the end, I felt it was necessary to defend our name being besmirched here on PS.

My name is Ira Weissman. I am the founder of Truth About Diamonds that is now known as The Diamond Pro. I no longer play an active role in the day to day operation of the site. My former colleague from Leo Schachter diamonds (where we were trained professionally and worked together), Michael Fried, now runs the site.

Many of the comments on this thread focus on two points:
1) That WF diamonds are great!
2) We must say what we do about them because we don't work with them.

To the first point, I would like to state clearly for the record that I think that WF diamonds are fantastic. Their ACAs are just as good as everyone else's super ideals. Diamond quality was never the issue.

To the second point, I want to state for the record that we used to be affiliated with them, but we broke off the relationship. In order for the affiliate relationship to work, there has to be 100% trust between the parties. We lost that trust in them. Why that is the case will remain private - primarily due to fears of being hit with a libel lawsuit.

I would also like to state that in July of 2015, we were contacted by WF offering us more favorable terms than what they share with other affiliates, but we declined their offer because of what transpired in the earlier incidents.

Every day we receive emails from readers who have already chosen diamonds from vendors we are not affiliated with asking us if it's a good choice. In every case, if their choice is a better deal than anything we can find on an affiliated site, we will happily confirm their choice. We know that our reputation is of the utmost importance and we do everything we can to be objective. We write about this in our article entitled The Truth About The Diamond Pro linked to from every content page with the link text "Read why we are doing this for free." Our reputation is worth so much more than any individual commission.

I'm sure all of you who commented that are customers of WF really did have amazing experiences. I'm sure they do their honest best to give every customer the best possible experience. Our experience with them, through our business relationship, though, gave us enough concern to not be able to recommend diamonds from them, or even confirm a reader's selection from them. Does violating the trust of a business relationship necessarily mean that they would ever violate a customer's trust? Probably not. But we're not willing to take any chances when someone comes to us for advice.

I fully admit that WF would have a different perspective on what happened and feels they have legitimate reasons for how they treated us. That's fine. Our goal was never to drag them through the mud. We don't write anything obviously negative about them on our site. We only respond this way privately if someone asks us about them.

Honestly, I would prefer if this whole thread would be taken down. I don't like writing even this much publicly. I regret that the OP wrote what he did and the ensuing conversation forced me to respond to defend our business.

Your site, "Does this for free?"

I went to your site and could not find such a "link text".

So, DiamondPro does this for free?
You help your vendors sell diamonds, but they pay you nothing for this?

That's very commendable.
So, I assume DiamondPro is a non-profit agency. Right?
 

kenny

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Re: DiamondPro Blog "Can't Recommend Whiteflash diamonds..."

iraweissman|1451932477|3970484 said:
Every day we receive emails from readers who have already chosen diamonds from vendors we are not affiliated with asking us if it's a good choice. In every case, if their choice is a better deal than anything we can find on an affiliated site, we will happily confirm their choice.

Doesn't that conflict with what the OP wrote?:
"I submitted an inquiry to DiamondPro for help choosing a stone. I'm looking for around 1.8 G, VS2 Round budget 18-19k. They immediately shot down my reserved stone at WF because they couldn't personally recommend buying from WF at all."

Instead of writing, "In every case ... " you should have written "In every case except for WF because we have reasons which we are going to keep secret ... "
 
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