Diamond Software for new company.

[treasurehunter]

Hi , I'm looking to start an online company selling diamonds and need recommendation as to what software to buy, ASET , IDEAL SCOPE etc
So I can have images of diamond cut quality on my website. Do I need a Sarin report for this software or can I use the certs specs and program it into there?
What do I need ? A camera ?

 

[craighnt]

Well you probably need a good CAD program for starters. There are several but I think Matrix 7 by Gemvision is one of the most popular industry standards. It's thousands of dollars. No way around that, they are all pretty pricy software packages. And most customers who want custom work expect full on high quality renders. That is the way it's going.

 

[treasurehunter]

no, its not jewellery just the software that people use here for cut analysis such as ASET and IDEAL scope ,

 

[smilligan]

no, its not jewellery just the software that people use here for cut analysis such as ASET and IDEAL scope ,

No offense, but how do you plan to start a business without having a basic understanding of the tools needed? If you plan on drop shipping, you won't have the diamonds in your inventory to provide the information. It would either have to come from the vendor or you would have to buy the diamonds and take the pictures/ASET/IS yourself.

 

[zz00ter]

I have wondered what the best business would be and it might be buying old diamonds from divorced women and then checking the diamond for damage, giving new analysis pictures and then selling for maybe 10% less than a comparable new diamond.

 

[denverappraiser]

I second the suggestion that you may not have thought this through all the way but the short answer is to farm out this sort of work to someone who DOES understand it, at least until you get the rest of your systems down. All of the software that I’m aware of starts with a Sarin scan and then crunches the data from there. The photographs and photomicrographs you are seeing are taken directly of the stone with a bit of practice but yes, it involves a camera.

 

[arkieb1]

I have wondered what the best business would be and it might be buying old diamonds from divorced women and then checking the diamond for damage, giving new analysis pictures and then selling for maybe 10% less than a comparable new diamond.

"Old diamonds" are particularly difficult to photograph and frequently because they are handcut don't always look the best under ASET machines, unless you are going to be picky about what you buy or buy them and recut them..... Idealscope machines to my knowledge are both expensive and difficult to use. Old diamonds - what I mean by this is true "Antique" diamonds sell for less than 10% comparable to new diamond prices mostly unless you are going to be a high end Antique jewellery dealer. Perhaps you are talking about preloved modern cut diamonds?

 

[Gypsy]

An ASET scope is a scope.

Computer generated ASETs are not considered as reliable as ones of the actual stones with the scope.

An Idealscope is also a scope.

 

[treasurehunter]

ok so with the main proportions can i get a readout on the ASET software.
Or do I need the sarin details, I can get that its possible .
Thanks
Or should i just wait until the stone arrives and take a photo

 

[denverappraiser]

ok so with the main proportions can i get a readout on the ASET software.
Or do I need the sarin details, I can get that its possible .
Thanks
Or should i just wait until the stone arrives and take a photo

ASET is hardware, not software. There is no readout of main or any other proportions.

No, go ahead and take the pictures before the stone arrives.

 

[c-k]

just a guess here, but I think it may be a tough business without having much experience.

 

[treasurehunter]

Who said i didn't have experience, just because I don't understand ASET .

 

[c-k]

Who said i didn't have experience, just because I don't understand ASET .

Maybe a little kidding from me, sorry if I was out of line, thought you would not be asking the questions you have posted if experienced in the business. Good luck in your endeavor.

 

[treasurehunter]

I personally don't know anyone in the trade the uses ASET but maybe were old school , thats why I'm trying to learn

 

[yssie]

ok so with the main proportions can i get a readout on the ASET software.
Or do I need the sarin details, I can get that its possible .
Thanks
Or should i just wait until the stone arrives and take a photo

ASET is hardware, not software. There is no readout of main or any other proportions.

No, go ahead and take the pictures before the stone arrives.

Niel, I must be missing something. My first reaction was an unladylike snort but I suspect that's the wrong reaction.

 

[denverappraiser]

No, that's probably the right reaction. My comment wasn't especially ladylike.

 

[yssie]

I snorted again.

 

[denverappraiser]

Who said i didn't have experience, just because I don't understand ASET .

Google 'AGS ASET' and you'll get an explanation of sorts directly from AGS, the manufacturer. Poke around their website for more. The cheapest tool is only $25 so it's easy to play with one if you like. In B2B business it's not used at all, although I anticipate that it will be. Dealers who learn how to use it are better buyers. In storefront operations it's used in a few specialty markets. Overall I'm not surprised you've not used it if you're from one of those markets. In the Internet market it's got a fair and growing presence along with good photographs (which also aren't used in the other two venues either). I apologize for being snippy but YOU asked and your question was both answered and ignored very early in this thread.

In answer to your question, most of the computer generated ASET and IS images you see online are generated from .srn files using DiamCalc from Octonus or by contract service with AGS. Yes, you need a Sarin machine or a deal with someone else who has one. You need the whole data file, not just what's printed on a report to do this.

High quality photographs are tricky, whether they're with a reflector, through a darkfield or just a glamour shot. It comes from experience and good tools. Most of the people who are highly skilled at this count it as one of their top proprietary secrets and they have thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars invested in the systems.

 

[treasurehunter]

Thanks good reply, my diamond supplier from antwerp is still faxing his drawings of stones haha .

 

[Karl_K]

High quality photographs are tricky, whether they're with a reflector, through a darkfield or just a glamour shot. It comes from experience and good tools. Most of the people who are highly skilled at this count it as one of their top proprietary secrets and they have thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars invested in the systems.

tricky and all about process.
Developing a process for consistent quality photos can take hundreds of hours and must be done the same way every time for consistent results.

 

[treasurehunter]

Karl K , a little of topic do you agree with the GIAs findings on florescence that very strong and strong flo 99.80 percent of the time will not make the stone ''hazy' or ''milky'' ?

 

[Karl_K]

Karl K , a little of topic do you agree with the GIAs findings on florescence that very strong and strong flo 99.80 percent of the time will not make the stone ''hazy' or ''milky'' ?

I haven't seen enough stones to know for sure if that percentage is right but I have seen many non-milky strong/v strong stones.
I can say that I have seen far more with no issues than those with issues.
There are enough with issues that I feel a consumer needs to have them checked before committing to a stone or having it shipped to them.
I have a feeling but no facts to back it up that the gia number may be a little high and more than that have issues. I dunno :}

Neil has seen far more diamonds than I ever will and might have a better answer.

 

[denverappraiser]

I haven't seen an 'overblue', meaning one of those stones that fogs out in UV light in years. I don't think I've EVER seen one from a new production sort of source. I've discussed this with others in the trade and the most plausible explanation is that those all came from a single source, and that source played out decades ago. Pretty much every diamond ever mined is still around, of course, so they're still out there but anecdotally I would say they are extremely rare and this supports the GIA study. I've even discussed it with diamond dealers with thousands of stones in inventory with a specific request to BUY one for my collection. Even that hasn't produced one.

 

[treasurehunter]

Great reply thanks.
So the only reason Very strong and strong florescence stones are cheaper is that they are harder to sell as it can be difficult to explain to the customer that theres nothing wrong with them

 

[Karl_K]

Great reply thanks.
So the only reason Very strong and strong florescence stones are cheaper is that they are harder to sell as it can be difficult to explain to the customer that theres nothing wrong with them

Google blue white diamond fraud.
There is also some question of them being over graded in color particularly by GIA because the grading lamps have some UV. More so than in the past because the old tubes with min. UV are no longer being made.
AGS last I heard filtered the UV GIA does not.

 

[treasurehunter]

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/news-watch-out-diamond-scams


ok so the scam here is that jewellers will advertise them as special because they are blue white but they are really just ordinary.
But there is no problem selling very strong flo stones if you disclose it as a discounted diamond ?

 

[treasurehunter]

But the part about florescent stones being ''inferior '' is really only if its one of those small percentage of stones that is milky or oily .?
If a third of diamonds fluoresce then technically they are rarer but hold the same beauty and one could argue are more beautiful in a nightclub so advantage and also make the stone whiter so another advantage yet their real colour could be mis graded due to that same affect so they are worth not as much mmmmm
Has anyone noticed sent a border line colour grade to the AGS and got a lower grade than a GIA cert.

 

[Karl_K]

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/news-watch-out-diamond-scams


ok so the scam here is that jewellers will advertise them as special because they are blue white but they are really just ordinary.
But there is no problem selling very strong flo stones if you disclose it as a discounted diamond ?

You cant use the term "blue white" or similar and avoiding the claims made back then is a very good idea.
They are perfectly legal to sell and of course it should be disclosed and appropriately priced based on the market.
You can even in theory legally market it for what it is: Diamonds that glow blue under sunlight and other uv sources.
You just have to be very careful how you do it not to cross into forbidden territory.
Reading the ftc rulings and cases from that time will tell you what not to do.
Then run it by your lawyer.

 

[Gypsy]

Okay so. I'm a little worried for you.

I know you say you have a lot of experience. But... well, you just don't sound like it. Or maybe you are not a very curious person, or are bad at research... or something.

But personally, as a hobbyist I feel that I know more than you do about diamonds. And I know I am no where near the level I would need to be at in order to actually try to start a business and make it work.

Have you considered maybe... getting a partner or someone more knowledgeable... or with a different set of strengths-- particularly one good at research? Or maybe you do have partners... and you are the money and you are trying to confirm things independently, which is good.

I mean. Honestly, if I were starting a business. Yes, I'd use all my resources and that includes forums. But frankly, I wouldn't be asking these types of questions. Particularly about Fluorescence and the like from perfect strangers. I'd do a lot of independent research (and there is a LOT out there), then make a list of questions, then come on the forum and ask for people to help you come to some conclusions.

I mean, Pricescope alone has a REAMS of information that all you have to do is SEARCH for. And I'm kinda concerned you haven't started there.

A lot of the questions you are asking are things someone with a basic GG would know the answer to. A reputable, up to date appraiser would know most of this. And you know less than either of those... not exactly the person I would want SELLING me anything. And not someone I would want investing money in a new venture.

Hope I didn't offend. But I know I probably did. Still, someone had to say it.

 

[denverappraiser]

Great reply thanks.
So the only reason Very strong and strong florescence stones are cheaper is that they are harder to sell as it can be difficult to explain to the customer that theres nothing wrong with them

This is the case with every single gemological property. There’s nothing wrong with O-P color. Some people actually like them. I don’t even agree that G’s and H’s are more rare. Have you ever actually tried to find an O-P for a client, especially someone who is picky about the other things? Even L’s are a bit hard to come by. They’re cheaper because of tradition and fashion. Fluro used to be a feature, now it’s a problem. The stones haven’t changed, the customers have. Fluorescence is a gemological property. Price is not.