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Diamond Shows On Radio

BigVic

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
4
I am not an expert and I really cant say that I own much in the way of colored diamonds but I have been thinking about it and wondering whether or not it would make a solid investment, say instead of real estate or perhaps gold. Any opinions or places I could listent to a show or anything that would discuss colored diamond investing?
 

LD

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
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Jun 29, 2008
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10,165
Please do not buy diamonds or gemstones for investment purposes. The only time they MAY be an investment is if you buy world class specimens. Even then, if you are to sell on, you've got to find a buyer and hope that you are able to sell for what you bought for.

With gemstones you either have to be lucky and buy when something is relatively unknown and then becomes rare or the gem is rare and you have very very very deep pockets and have been able to buy the best specimen in the world!

Only buy diamonds and gemstones because you love them.
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Sep 20, 2008
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24,120
BigVic|1319478985|3046715 said:
I am not an expert and I really cant say that I own much in the way of colored diamonds but I have been thinking about it and wondering whether or not it would make a solid investment, say instead of real estate or perhaps gold. Any opinions or places I could listent to a show or anything that would discuss colored diamond investing?

The only gems that seem to go up in value significantly are world class, untreated Burmese Rubies, Muzo Colombian emeralds, Kashmir or Burmese sapphires, or large fancy colored diamonds that are pink, blue, green or red. Those always seem to have great value, but for the rest, I wouldn't invest in gemstones.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Apr 30, 2005
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30,729
We have to pay retail but sell at wholesale.
That means lots of your money evaporates into thin air when you buy diamonds.
So much for the investment.

Buy diamonds because you love them.
Some will hold their value better than others.
Be sure to only buy FCDs with a GIA report is the first step.
 

BigVic

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
4
All very valid points........Thank you for the feedback. I did a lot of research over the past little while and found very little. I got a personal message yesterday from another blog that I follow and got a list of a few people or companies so that was helpful. I think I am going to go with a yellow colored diamond. They remain affordable and I think something that is Vivid IF can run in the $20-$35 K around the 1 carat or just slightly higher.

I cant see how they could not be a good investment? From what I can see out there the market is really stable and form the christie's and other auction sites there has not been any, whatsoever, drop in value per carat based on their data. But I know it is a risk because one of you stated the obvious which was how to buy at wholesale............I know at retail this jumps the price a lot, just from looking at even some online retailers and being in Vegas not to long ago at Graff's and Winstons.....

Does anybody own one?
 

LD

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Jun 29, 2008
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10,165
I've got a number of natural yellows. I've also got a 1ct IF. Please do a search on this site and you'll see that yellow diamonds are not rare. I don't consider any of my yellows to be investments and I've been collecting for many years and also bought mine before prices rose. Only the largest yellow diamonds with the best clarity and cut are likely to be investment pieces and then you're talking 20+ carats!

Please be very very very wary if people try to tell you otherwise.
 

BigVic

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 24, 2011
Messages
4
The feedback is geatly appreciated LovingDiamonds but you did not mention pricing... I posted in anotehr thread because I noticed somebody was talking about red diamonds and I thought I would research and basically I have found only a couple of good sites. I showed a red diamond from www.guildhalldiamonds.com and to this thread they do have a radio show which is something I would love to listen to but doubt I will get the chance to.....However I do think that Yellows are rare.

I spoke to the folks at Rachminov and seemingly these are some very knowledgeable people. They directed me to the site above as they really do not deal with the public.

I am more interested in knowing why in your opinions Yellows cannot be considered investments? I do NOT plan on owning a 20+ carat diamond but am I amking the wrong assumption that something priced well will not drop in value? I mean if I spend lets say 20K or so am I to assume there is a probabbility that pure vivid yellow IF's will drop in value?
 

LD

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Look at this thread - most of these rings belong to forum members and a number are well over 5ct. Please bear in mind, this is only one thread. There are lots and lots more.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-there-a-yellow-diamond-folder-or-thread.139310/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/is-there-a-yellow-diamond-folder-or-thread.139310/[/URL]

If you want to see what true pricing is like, have a look here and please don't forget these are retail prices:-

http://www.fancydiamonds.net/yellow_diamonds
http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/categories/loose-natural-yellow-diamonds/page-12/
Here's a vivid 1ct yellow: http://rockdiamond.com/index.php/jewelry/loose-diamond-102ct-fancy-vivid-yellow-gia-cushion-save-due-to-blue-r3178


As coloured diamonds are not judged by clarity and more by colour, IF is a nice to have but the colour is what sets the price. There are very few IF's around and I'm not convinced that it would necessarily push up the price as quite a few yellows are in the VVS range anyway.

If I bought a 1ct yellow diamond for $20,000 would it be worth that in 10 years? Absolutely no idea. Would I be able to sell it for $20,000 - probably not. So, to me, that's not an investment.

If you want to buy investments stones you should look at the list provided by TL above and add to that Paraiba Tourmaline from Brazil and Alexandrite.
 

gongli

Rough_Rock
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Jul 24, 2011
Messages
82
one way to look at the possible resale value is to check out the pre-loved jewel area:

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...the-preloved-ps-jewels-for-sale-forum.166045/

another interesting site with is http://gemval.com i am very curious about PS users' opinion: are they reliable or meaningful? they give these charts for wholesale prices, so if the retail markup is 2x, then this would mean that non-trade people who bought spinels retail in 05 might almost break selling to a dealer today:

spinel.png

emeralds are kind of interesting, gemval says they don't seem to have shot up as much lately:

emerald.png

gemval is just averaging online dealer prices though. from my perspective, gems and jewelry is the opposite of a liquid market. if you want to "invest" in them, then you will have to make a way to sell your jewelry when you want to cash out, and your options will be very limited to things like the pre-loved jewelry area, craigslist, a handful of online dealers and pawnshop type operations - which will pay you as little as possible since they are in business to make their own money.

so my follow-on questions to long-time PS jewelry lovers and dealer-watchers:

1. those of you who bought spinel in 2005, or have been watching closely since then, did you pay about half what you're seeing now?

2. if you bought spinel in 2005, are you seeing prices on diamondbistro etc that are about what you paid? (especially if you've actually sold a spinel lately and broke even or better that would be very interesting!!)

3. those of you who bought or have been watching emerald since 2005, has been moving sideways since then?

-neal
 

minousbijoux

Super_Ideal_Rock
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I had a subscription to gemval for a while, but felt that often their pricing wasn't terribly relevant - almost like their sampling was too small and not statistically significant enough. The Gem Guide is a much better option for pricing.

This has all been said before, but you can ask about emeralds or spinels and how they've gone up over time. But the next big Mahenge-like spinel or emerald find, will change all that. Remember, they keep finding stuff! Mandarins, Merelani mints, Mahenge spinels - all relatively new finds. Just be careful.

Now with that cautionary note out of the way, I am looking for an orange diamond. And it will be one of those things that I buy because its beautiful and my favorite color and I hopefully can't destroy it. And some day, with any luck, it will at least have held its value so my boys won't just be inheriting a house full of depreciated stuff, but a diamond as well. [Actually, that was an afterthought; its really cause I simply covet a vivid, pure orange diamond...heh heh]
 

T L

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
24,120
gongli|1319595519|3047679 said:
one way to look at the possible resale value is to check out the pre-loved jewel area:

https://www.pricescope.com/communit...the-preloved-ps-jewels-for-sale-forum.166045/

another interesting site with is http://gemval.com i am very curious about PS users' opinion: are they reliable or meaningful? they give these charts for wholesale prices, so if the retail markup is 2x, then this would mean that non-trade people who bought spinels retail in 05 might almost break selling to a dealer today:

spinel.png

emeralds are kind of interesting, gemval says they don't seem to have shot up as much lately:

emerald.png

gemval is just averaging online dealer prices though. from my perspective, gems and jewelry is the opposite of a liquid market. if you want to "invest" in them, then you will have to make a way to sell your jewelry when you want to cash out, and your options will be very limited to things like the pre-loved jewelry area, craigslist, a handful of online dealers and pawnshop type operations - which will pay you as little as possible since they are in business to make their own money.

so my follow-on questions to long-time PS jewelry lovers and dealer-watchers:

1. those of you who bought spinel in 2005, or have been watching closely since then, did you pay about half what you're seeing now?

2. if you bought spinel in 2005, are you seeing prices on diamondbistro etc that are about what you paid? (especially if you've actually sold a spinel lately and broke even or better that would be very interesting!!)

3. those of you who bought or have been watching emerald since 2005, has been moving sideways since then?

-neal

I bought an emerald about ten years ago or so, and an emerald dealer told me he would charge at least five times what I paid for it, and recently, I noticed that emeralds have even further increased in price for similar quality. That doesn't mean I can get what he wants to charge for it, but I do think I can get a lot more than I paid for it. Not that it's going to give me any retirement money, but I think it was a great buy.

As for Tanzanian mahenge red spinels in the super fine color quality, I do think those prices have gone through the roof. I don't think I could get some of the stones I have now, for what I paid, on DB or anywhere. I'm seeing the more purple or orange material being sold for high prices lately and I think that's just wrong. They're not the same as the original find.
 

LD

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Gemstones are only worth what somebody will pay for them on the second hand market. So price per carat is only what you would buy something for at retail price - not a worth or an indication of value.

Some gemstones have risen because of their rarity (i.e. high quality Paraiba Tourmaline, high quality Alexandrites, best quality Burma Rubies etc) but these are the exceptions and not the rule. For somebody starting to collect these stones now, they will most definitely have to pay far far more than somebody collecting 10 years ago. I know that TL and I (luckily) bought the majority of our Paraibas before the prices rose but we most definitely would both struggle to buy the same again at those prices.

Other gemstones, at best, hold their value and most others lose value. I had the same Emerald appraised for insurance purposes 10 years ago and 4 years ago. The price per carat (despite this being a very very very good - possibly untreated - Emerald) has hardly risen. It was the same appraiser so that can't be factored in.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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Messages
30,729
Past performance is no guarantee of future performance.
 
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