Find your diamond
Find your jewelry
shape
carat
color
clarity

Diamond on hold for 24 hours...your thoughts please?

M

Marley

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 6, 2010
Messages
15
Hi everyone! Long time "guest", new "member"...first post! This is such a fantastic site and I've learned a lot over the past few months. Anyhow, I'll get down to it! I'm at the point where most guys probably get...I'm all researched out! I'm at the point where I have researched for so long and learned so much that things have started to become a blur. I'm ready to pull the trigger and buy the E-ring for my girl...with a little encouragement, guidance and assistance from all you wonderful people of course. :)

Cut is the most important to me. I've gone with an I color as we're not overly color sensitive and it should still face up pretty white with a RB diamond (it will be in a platinum setting).

I have the diamond below on hold for 24 hours at JA. I'm hoping you can let me know what you all think. It's a Canadian diamond, which may add a little bit extra to the cost, but being from Canada I think it would be pretty cool and it's worth it in my eyes. Since it's on hold, the price no longer shows, but I believe it was around $4200...$3900 roughly after the pricescope discount.

It seems to score very well on the HCA (1.4).

Should I be concerned with the small dark mark in the center of the enlarged image? Or would this not be visible to the naked eye being a VS1?

Thank you all in advance...I appreciate any and all thoughts with such a tough decision!

Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.90
Cut: Ideal
Color: I
Clarity: VS1
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 61.8%
Table: 55.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.24*6.21*3.85

CA: 34
PA: 41

I've received the enlarged image of the stone itself and the idealscope:

idealscope.JPG

image.JPG
 
Looks good to me. Can you link the JA stone? I want to see the grading report.
 
:sun:

is it being sold as a true hearts?

ditto SC - post lab report link
 
Thanks for the replies. I was happy to see your name stone cold - I've read a lot of posts where you've added a ton of great advice.

It's not being sold as a true hearts.

Here is the link to see the report:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamonds/I-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1330101.asp

Let me know what you think after viewing the report (if there's anything I've missed or need to know)...and if the price seems to be in line for the specs.

Thanks again!
 
OIC, this stone's grading report is a Diamond Quality Dossier, so no inclusion map.

I was hoping to see the map so as to confirm the inclusion is there. Looks a little obvious for a VS1, will probably be eye-clean still, I would probably ask JA's gemologist to double check if the idealscope and loupe image is from the same stone as the report.
 
I'll try speaking with one of their gemologists. They told me today that they are availble from Tuesday-Thursday...so it likely won't be until next week.

Do you think the reason the inclusion looks obvious is due the degree of magnification (i.e. how large the photograph has been enlarged)? What level of magnification do you think the photo is? It seems greater than what the virtual loupe provides for diamonds on the JA website.

If the idealscope image and loupe image are the same stone as the report, do you think this stone is still worth pursuing? Is there anything else I should ask the gemologist or have them look at while I have their attention?

Thanks!
 
Marley said:
Do you think the reason the inclusion looks obvious is due the degree of magnification (i.e. how large the photograph has been enlarged)? What level of magnification do you think the photo is?
Click to expand...

The photo on my computer screen is like 4 inches (~100mm) tall, and the actual diamond is about 6mm in diameter. So pulling out my trusty geometry handbook -- that means that the image is over 400x magnified. :D

You're probably never going to notice it. Actually, you might even have a hard time IDing your diamond from that inclusion with a 10x loupe. I don't think you'd see the speck even under a 70x microscope unless you were looking in exactly the right spot. It's really small! Just IMO.
 
Thanks for the opinion and advice antelope.

This is driving me nuts! I've been searching for a diamond for a while and given how well this stone performs with the idealscope image, I'm not sure I want to discard it. I'm starting to wonder if I'm over analyzing this little black speck! Are my concerns over amplified due to how large the photo appears? As you point out, the diamond is only approx. 6mm in size. And from everything I've read, GIA is one of the strictest graders...for it to be graded as a VS1 by GIA...would it not have to be a very minor inclusion? Otherwise, would it not have been graded as perhaps, a VS2?
 
Marley said:
Are my concerns over amplified due to how large the photo appears? As you point out, the diamond is only approx. 6mm in size. And from everything I've read, GIA is one of the strictest graders...for it to be graded as a VS1 by GIA...would it not have to be a very minor inclusion? Otherwise, would it not have been graded as perhaps, a VS2?
Click to expand...

The other way to think about it is that the speck is about 1mm on my screen and would be 1mm/400 in real life. You would have to be superman to see it. Even in the 400x magnified image, it's so tiny!

The real issue, however, is whether the diamond is "mind clean" to you. Even if you could not possibly see it, it might bug you if you thought you or your SO could see it. It sounds like that might be more of an issue than the speck itself.

If you are really uneasy, keep in mind that JA does have a 30-day money back thing. I wouldn't let the speck stop you from buying it, but I would look at it real close and make sure that you're happy with it before deciding to keep it (e.g., I wouldn't ship it straight to the setter in this case). Even if James Allen is setting it, I would ask to have the diamond shipped out for inspection, then you would pay shipping back for the setting. RT shipping will be $50-$100 depending on the method that you use.
 
I'm planning on a one-stop shop, having JA set the stone in a platinum setting. With their return policy, you've suggested a good idea, but being in Canada - the border gets in the way and could pose problems with duty charges i.e. if I choose to return the diamond, I would have paid roughly $500 in taxes to import the diamond, only to send it back. Your idea would work for our friends in the US, but would be costly up here.

Mind clean is not really an issue...I know most diamonds will have their flaws, unless going IF or F grade - I just don't want to be paying for a VS1 and be able to stare at the diamond closely and see the mark in the center with my naked eye (I have pretty good eyesight...20/20, unaided vision).

Do you think I would be able to rely on the opinion of the gemologist's' at JA to give an honest opinion if I speak to them? I'm thinking they wouldn't want me to return the stone and would try and be as honest as possible (?)
 
Marley said:
Mind clean is not really an issue...I know most diamonds will have their flaws, unless going IF or F grade
Click to expand...

Not really, just the standard definition of flawless stone. Go up high enough in magnification, everything will have flaws.
 
That diamond is GORGEOUS! Great price too! :love: :love:

If you are not a "mind-clean" fanatic, that little spot is not going to matter one bit. It's a VS1 - I doubt GIA made a grading error. You can ask JA, but I seriously doubt you will see that spot, even at 10x.

If I were you, I'd buy the stone before it goes off reserve. Have it set and be done. You will not be disappointed. :))
 
That little spot is soooooooooooo tiny...you are definitely over-analyzing this. It is a beautiful stone. JA will be honest with
you whether it is eye-clean or not.
 
Thanks for the thoughts/advice everyone...it's very much appreciated!

I've spoken with JA and they're going to hold the stone for me until I can speak with a gemologist next week (they are available from Tuesday-Thursday). When booking the consult, they advised they need to have more than one stone to discuss, to a maximum of 3.

I've added the 2 stones below to discuss with the gemologist. One is an H color (roughly $450 increase from the original diamond), the other is a G color (roughly $600 increase from the original diamond, but also now a 0.92, it's also a Canadian diamond like the original). I've requested an idealscope for the 1st diamond and an image and idealscope for the 2nd

I'm still very much considering the original, but would appreciate any input you all can add on these 2 as a comparison.

Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.90
Cut: Ideal
Color: H
Clarity: VS1
Certificate: AGS

Depth: 62.4%
Table: 53.0%
Polish: Ideal
Symmetry: Ideal
Girdle: Thin to medium
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.18*6.19*3.85

CA 34.4
PA 40.8

Image and AGS grading report can be viewed here:

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds-search/diamonds/H-VS1-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1298782.asp


Shape: Round
Carat weight: 0.92
Cut: Ideal
Color: G
Clarity: VS2
Certificate: GIA

Depth: 62.0%
Table: 55.0%
Polish: Excellent
Symmetry: Excellent
Girdle: Medium, faceted
Culet: None
Fluorescence: None
Measurements: 6.27*6.24*3.88

CA 34.5
PA 40.8

The GIA report is available, but no image.

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds-search/diamonds/G-VS2-Ideal-Cut-Round-Diamond-1330047.asp
 
Looks promising.
 
ditto - can't tell much more until ISs come in.

You won't see that spread difference, and VS1 is overkill on clarity in this size range unless you want a very high clarity for personal reasons.
 
Hi everyone...

After waiting a few days, I've received the idealscopes for the 2 diamonds I'm going to be compare the original to. I'll be speaking with a gemologist at JA tomorrow to discuss the 3.

Take a look at the idealscopes and specs and let me know your thoughts/opinions of these two, compared to the original I posted above... From what you can see, does one (or two) stand out clearly from another? What would you choose and why?? ...and also is there anything specific I should be asking the gemologist Wednesday morning?

Thank you all in advance!

1330047.jpg

1298782.jpg
 
Picture perfect ISs on all three :))

similar proportions, same size, similar colours - I'd wager you couldn't tell them apart if you lined them up.
 
Ditto.
 
Thanks Yssie and Stonecold...

If the idealscopes all look good, should they all relatively have the same performance (fire, scintillation etc.)?

Also...speaking with JA, they mentioned that you would be hard pressed to see a difference in color grade until you went up by 2, i.e. "I" to "G"... does this sound right? If this is correct, it seems like I could toss the "H" out to help with the decision a little.

Can anyone comment on how an "I" colour diamond would look in a platinum setting...would the platinum make the stone appear to have more of a yellow tint? I've read this, but I'm not sure if it's true or just marketing to upsell to a higher color grade.

Thanks!
 
Marley said:
Thanks Yssie and Stonecold...

If the idealscopes all look good, should they all relatively have the same performance (fire, scintillation etc.)?
I'd sure guess so!

Also...speaking with JA, they mentioned that you would be hard pressed to see a difference in color grade until you went up by 2, i.e. "I" to "G"... does this sound right? If this is correct, it seems like I could toss the "H" out to help with the decision a little.
I've heard this too - I wouldn't toss the H just based on this. Every colour grade is a range, and buying blind you don't know where the stone is in that range, and your reps don't have *your* eyes - you may find you don't like the tint in a "low I" for example...


Can anyone comment on how an "I" colour diamond would look in a platinum setting...would the platinum make the stone appear to have more of a yellow tint? I've read this, but I'm not sure if it's true or just marketing to upsell to a higher color grade.
I think an I in this size range would be fine - yes you'll see the colour from the side, no it won't be obvious unless you're looking for it - but your eyes and sensibilities may be different from mine ;)) In any case platinum is a darker metal than plated white gold, and even though it's just as icy I've found that the darker hue makes it more forgiving of diamond tint

Thanks!
Click to expand...
 
Marley said:
If the idealscopes all look good, should they all relatively have the same performance (fire, scintillation etc.)?
Click to expand...
Yap, basically another rejection tool.

For color, this video might help but keep in mind the size in real life is much smaller and the color you see on the screen is affected by your display too.

http://vimeo.com/3288695
 
You both have provided excellent advice...I can't thank you enough.

Are there any specific questions (regarding these stones, or stones in general) I should be asking the gemologist on the phone tomorrow?
 
Marley said:
You both have provided excellent advice...I can't thank you enough.

Are there any specific questions (regarding these stones, or stones in general) I should be asking the gemologist on the phone tomorrow?
Click to expand...


which is cheapest w/ all applied discounts? ;))

Seriously, regarding so-termed "cut quality" - there's nothing more to analyse from an IS or a bunch of numbers. Just ask your rep which one he recommends and why, and see if his/her reasoning moves you - there's nothing that matches having the stone in hand.
 
The price of all 3 may help people to offer opinions...

After the pricescope discounts: the first stone I posted was the least expensive (I colour, VS1, Canadian diamond)...if I remember correctly it's $3890. The H, VS1 jumps up to around $4300 and the G VS2 0.92 (also a Canadian diamond) is $4500.

A few hundred more won't break the bank, but I just think that you have to cut it off somewhere...because in my eyes, if you start looking at $4500, you then start looking at what you can get for a few hundred more from there and it's never ending! (my approximate budget is loosely $5,000, including the setting).

Thanks everyone!
 
What setting designs are you thinking of?

For something that leaves much of the pavilion open you may want a higher colour stone (body colour is more visible from the side/bottom), on the other hand if you're going with a closed bezel or it's ornate and covers the pavilion in filigree, noone will notice the side of the diamond and you can go lower without worrying about obvious tint.. if you've chosen a halo the contrast between the centrestone and halo is a consideration
 
I think you could go with the I for that setting and be fine. That's just my opinion however. I'm not super color sensitive and in a solitaire setting an I is plenty white for me.
 
I'll be speaking with the gemologist this morning... I just received the image of the G, VS2, 0.92. Take a look at the image and let me know your thoughts. (are those "feathers" at 11 and 1 o'clock?)

The grading report indicates "Feather Finish". I've heard mixed reviews on feathers... can anyone add anything regarding feathers or "feather finish"?

Thanks!

1330047pic.JPG
 
Yap, that is the feather. In the idealscope image, the large feather is at the 4 o'clock position.

It is a feather, not a feather finish.

Finish is to define the other 2 grades, symm and polish, not a continuation of the clarity characteristics.

A feather in the VS2 is usually not a problem but since you have the gemologist appointment, ask them for their advise on the inclusion and if it will be a problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
GET 3 FREE HCA RESULTS JOIN THE FORUM. ASK FOR HELP
Jewelry Blog
PriceScope-Concierge-Ad
Find prime cuts.
Top