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tornados18

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 18, 2018
Messages
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My girlfriend and I recently started looking at engagement rings and feel we have a good idea of what we are looking for.

I understand that buying online takes a lot of due diligence and research on our end, but I wanted to get some of your opinions on the below diamond. We have narrowed it down to my girlfriend wanting the following:
  • Shape: Round
  • Carat: 1.5 carat or larger
  • Color: H or better
  • Clarity: VS1 or better
  • Color: H or better
  • Cut: Excellent or better
I feel the diamond I have attached below is great for the price. Is a diamond of the following caliber typically eye clean? Should I have any worries if we are to purchase this diamond? It will be in a halo setting.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5029244
 
tornados18 said:
My girlfriend and I recently started looking at engagement rings and feel we have a good idea of what we are looking for.

I understand that buying online takes a lot of due diligence and research on our end, but I wanted to get some of your opinions on the below diamond. We have narrowed it down to my girlfriend wanting the following:
  • Shape: Round
  • Carat: 1.5 carat or larger
  • Color: H or better
  • Clarity: VS1 or better
  • Color: H or better
  • Cut: Excellent or better
I feel the diamond I have attached below is great for the price. Is a diamond of the following caliber typically eye clean? Should I have any worries if we are to purchase this diamond? It will be in a halo setting.

https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-di...h-color-vs1-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-5029244
Click to expand...

Not a fan of the diamond. I don't like the IGI cert, The diamond is too deep, and the crown is too steep for the pavillion. It won't be a good performer and I'd reject the stone

Post your budget and we can make better recommendation.
 
Agree w/ @blueMA. Angles just don't work. AGS charts show angles in an excellent cut but its border line on very good to only good. You really want a GIA or AGS certified stone. IGI is unreliable because it's not as precise as the other two.

A few thoughts:
  • You don't "need" a VS1 to be eye clean. Many SI1's will fit that bill. And even a few SI2's although they are harder to find. I say this because buying diamonds is like a zero sum game. When you factor budget, size, cut, clarity and color you sacrifice somewhere to gain elsewhere. Sacrificing with clarity where your naked eye can't discern the difference is a smart way to gain elsewhere where you eye can tell the difference (cut, color or carat).
  • Since you are putting this stone with a halo, would you consider a slightly smaller stone? Keep in mind a 1.5 carat with a halo will look much larger than a standalone 1.5ct stone in a solitaire. Maybe you could consider a 1.2 or 1.3 carat with halo to get to the 1.5ct overall size.
  • If an H and I colored stone was sitting next to each other, could either of you tell a difference? For most people, one step is hard to tell. It might be a way to stretch your budget if it's needed, although I generally like to stay as white in color as possible (my own preference). Another way to cheat is if you get a super ideal cut, it helps whiten the stone because of it's superb cut. Also, if you find a super ideal cut with some fluorescence that might help whiten it a bit too. So maybe an I colored super ideal might face up like an H excellent cut.
Let us know if you any of these alternate suggestions might work for you guys, and then we can start tossing some more choices your way.
 
sledge said:
Agree w/ @blueMA. Angles just don't work. AGS charts show angles in an excellent cut but its border line on very good to only good. You really want a GIA or AGS certified stone. IGI is unreliable because it's not as precise as the other two.

A few thoughts:
  • You don't "need" a VS1 to be eye clean. Many SI1's will fit that bill. And even a few SI2's although they are harder to find. I say this because buying diamonds is like a zero sum game. When you factor budget, size, cut, clarity and color you sacrifice somewhere to gain elsewhere. Sacrificing with clarity where your naked eye can't discern the difference is a smart way to gain elsewhere where you eye can tell the difference (cut, color or carat).
  • Since you are putting this stone with a halo, would you consider a slightly smaller stone? Keep in mind a 1.5 carat with a halo will look much larger than a standalone 1.5ct stone in a solitaire. Maybe you could consider a 1.2 or 1.3 carat with halo to get to the 1.5ct overall size.
  • If an H and I colored stone was sitting next to each other, could either of you tell a difference? For most people, one step is hard to tell. It might be a way to stretch your budget if it's needed, although I generally like to stay as white in color as possible (my own preference). Another way to cheat is if you get a super ideal cut, it helps whiten the stone because of it's superb cut. Also, if you find a super ideal cut with some fluorescence that might help whiten it a bit too. So maybe an I colored super ideal might face up like an H excellent cut.
Let us know if you any of these alternate suggestions might work for you guys, and then we can start tossing some more choices your way.
Click to expand...

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!

We would most likely not be able to tell the difference between an H and an I.

To make it simple, we have budget of 10-12k and would like to stay around 1.5 carats and must be eye clean.
 
blueMA said:
Not a fan of the diamond. I don't like the IGI cert, The diamond is too deep, and the crown is too steep for the pavillion. It won't be a good performer and I'd reject the stone

Post your budget and we can make better recommendation.
Click to expand...

Thanks everyone for the warm welcome!

We would most likely not be able to tell the difference between an H and an I.

To make it simple, we have budget of 10-12k and would like to stay around 1.5 carats and must be eye clean.
 
blueMA said:
Superideal, and comes with a great upgrade policy
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-1466947.htm
Click to expand...

Awesome! We’ve looked at a lot of whiteflash’s options. Not entirely the biggest fan of their settings. Looking for a falling edge halo like the one below:
https://www.jamesallen.com/mobile/e...-edge-pave-diamond-engagement-ring-item-49492

Can I order the diamond and setting from two different websites and have the diamond set at a local jewler?

Also, is it safe to say any “A cut above” from whiteflash is a great diamond?
 
Welcome aboard!

Is your $10-12k budget all in, or just the diamond only? I will see what else I can find.

FYI, that is a nice stone that @blueMA found and is called A Cut Above (ACA) and it is what we call a "branded super ideal" as it is a true Hearts & Arrow (H&A) diamond. In short, this means it's in 1% of all diamonds and superbly cut. It has the best of the best angles and has lots of sparkles.

Their upgrade policy is bomb as well. Spend $1 more at anytime and get full credit on your next stone. No other requirements. One of the best upgrade policies available.

In regards to the settings, WF has a plethora of them. My girl wanted something really unique and I had a very tough time finding one she liked. In that search WF shared with me that all the vendors they have listed on their site has settings available on each vendor website that isn't on the main WF site. So if you are looking on Vatche or other and see one you like, then WF has access to it.

The setting you posted appears to be a JA setting. Best I recall they won't sell the setting only. You can talk to them to see if WF ships the stone to them if they will set it.

But don't despair. WF can also make CUSTOM settings. So if you buy the diamond there, you could just say hey I want this JA setting. They do a drawing and custom make it for you. Boom all in-house. I did something similar. I bought my diamond from Brian Gavin Diamond (BGD) in Houston and having David Klass (DK) in LA make the setting. My girl's ring has been anything but easy but we are nearing the end and should be done soon I hope. On a more simple setting like this halo I wouldn't be scared to custom make that myself, but I've learned a lot in my recent experiences as well.
 
I just made a purchase for my engagement ring as well today from WF. I initially wanted to get H at least as part of my requirement however I ended up getting the Color i. Apparently there are different shades of i. It maybe be closer to H or J. So it might not be a bad choice to ask the gemologist to examine the color which one it is closer to.
 
Like @sledge mentions, it's best to keep things in-house. If you're thinking about possibly upgrading in the future, definitely go with Whiteflash.
 
sledge said:
Welcome aboard!

Is your $10-12k budget all in, or just the diamond only? I will see what else I can find.

FYI, that is a nice stone that @blueMA found and is called A Cut Above (ACA) and it is what we call a "branded super ideal" as it is a true Hearts & Arrow (H&A) diamond. In short, this means it's in 1% of all diamonds and superbly cut. It has the best of the best angles and has lots of sparkles.

Their upgrade policy is bomb as well. Spend $1 more at anytime and get full credit on your next stone. No other requirements. One of the best upgrade policies available.

In regards to the settings, WF has a plethora of them. My girl wanted something really unique and I had a very tough time finding one she liked. In that search WF shared with me that all the vendors they have listed on their site has settings available on each vendor website that isn't on the main WF site. So if you are looking on Vatche or other and see one you like, then WF has access to it.

The setting you posted appears to be a JA setting. Best I recall they won't sell the setting only. You can talk to them to see if WF ships the stone to them if they will set it.

But don't despair. WF can also make CUSTOM settings. So if you buy the diamond there, you could just say hey I want this JA setting. They do a drawing and custom make it for you. Boom all in-house. I did something similar. I bought my diamond from Brian Gavin Diamond (BGD) in Houston and having David Klass (DK) in LA make the setting. My girl's ring has been anything but easy but we are nearing the end and should be done soon I hope. On a more simple setting like this halo I wouldn't be scared to custom make that myself, but I've learned a lot in my recent experiences as well.
Click to expand...

You guys have been such a great help! Can’t thank you all enough!
 
Celcoder said:
I initially wanted to get H at least as part of my requirement however I ended up getting the Color i. Apparently there are different shades of i. It maybe be closer to H or J.
Click to expand...

This is true. I'm very color sensitive and personally wouldn't consider below G. Most people are OK with H, but people tend to notice the color on I down. As you go down on the color, the range of shades widens within a spec.
 
If you think you will upgrade in the future, I would stick with WF. Their upgrade policy isn’t as restrictive as JA. I purchased a wedding band from WF and it was a great experience! Just seeing their ACA melee has me wanting to upgrade my diamond to an ACA. One day. But way down the line.

I just purchased a setting fron JA. I already owned my diamond. They sold the setting alone but I had to send in my diamond for them to set it. I had a pretty good experience with them.
 
You're welcome @tornados18. Just paying it forward. Lots of good people here that recently helped me with my own purchase.

FYI, I did check with HPD, BGD and WF. I didn't see anything else that immediately jumped out at me. I saw one stone at WF but it had a knot and I wouldn't recommend that for an inclusion type. One thing that perked my interest is BGD had some "Advance Selection" stones. What this means is they bring in a stone with desired specs and cut to their Signature Series.

FYI, BGD is top notch. If you aren't aware, Brian co-founded WF and helped create the ACA line. Later he split off on his own and created Brian Gavin Diamonds. Many believe him to be one of the best diamond cutters in the country and his stones are highly respected as such.

I have a BGD stone myself and can tell you they are top notch people. For these reasons, I would consider an Advance Selection series stone. I saw a few that may work for you, but I would call Lesley (Brian's wife) and talk with her about your options, budget, etc.

Their upgrade policy isn't as generous as WF though. That's the only downside I see. You can spend $1 more, but you also have to upgrade 2 of the 3 following criteria: clarity, color or carat.

Oh yeah, the JA upgrade policy kind of blows IMO. You get full credit, but have to spend 2x the money before you get full credit.
 
sledge said:
You're welcome @tornados18. Just paying it forward. Lots of good people here that recently helped me with my own purchase.

FYI, I did check with HPD, BGD and WF. I didn't see anything else that immediately jumped out at me. I saw one stone at WF but it had a knot and I wouldn't recommend that for an inclusion type. One thing that perked my interest is BGD had some "Advance Selection" stones. What this means is they bring in a stone with desired specs and cut to their Signature Series.

FYI, BGD is top notch. If you aren't aware, Brian co-founded WF and helped create the ACA line. Later he split off on his own and created Brian Gavin Diamonds. Many believe him to be one of the best diamond cutters in the country and his stones are highly respected as such.

I have a BGD stone myself and can tell you they are top notch people. For these reasons, I would consider an Advance Selection series stone. I saw a few that may work for you, but I would call Lesley (Brian's wife) and talk with her about your options, budget, etc.

Their upgrade policy isn't as generous as WF though. That's the only downside I see. You can spend $1 more, but you also have to upgrade 2 of the 3 following criteria: clarity, color or carat.

Oh yeah, the JA upgrade policy kind of blows IMO. You get full credit, but have to spend 2x the money before you get full credit.
Click to expand...

Any opinions on this one?:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3970291.htm
 
tornados18 said:
Perfect! I’ll have them compare!
Click to expand...

Post the photos they provide you, but be sure to ask for their opinion on which diamond looks the best in person and most LIVELY.
 
tornados18 said:
Any opinions on this one?:

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3970291.htm
Click to expand...

I will let others weigh in with more experience, but in general knots are a no-go for me. I can't post to the website as it's external (per forum rules) but below is a copy & paste of info about knots. This particular knot is on the bottom and may not be noticeable once set, etc. I'd still worry about the structural integrity, but perhaps I am being over-cautious. Regardless, it's not "mind clean" to me and I still wouldn't buy it.


knot-diamond-inclusion-300x58.png

A crystal inclusion is considered a knot if it reaches the polished surface of the diamond. With the right lighting and magnification, you’ll be able to see where the knot and the surface meet.

Since it’s near the exterior, it could also give the impression that the diamond has a raised area on one of the facets, and it can usually be seen with bare eyes. Meaning, your diamond won’t be eye clean. What’s more is that knots can affect the durability of the gem in the long run.

So, when you see the diamond’s grading report bearing this inclusion, you know what to do!

Magnified image of a knot inclusion in a diamond.
knot-inclusion-in-diamond-1.png
Click to expand...
 
Okay, so spent a minute looking at some stones at WF for you. Mainly sticking there because you think you will be upgrading in the future. I will also take a look at HPD as they have a similar upgrade policy.

All these are eye clean. The majority are H color. A few VS2's but mostly SI1's. I threw in the ones that @blueMA suggested just so you could quickly compare all them. I did not include the one you suggested because of the knot and my previous post above.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3961916,3986357,3955173,3955174, 3947711,3947713

Edited to add:
I looked at HPD, and at this time they didn't have any stones in your budget, size, clarity & color constraints.
 
Oh yeah, here are the advance selection stones I was talking about with BGD. FYI, BGD is offering a special sale for D-H colored stones. You can get an extra 8% off by applying DEFGH188 to the cart.

For the 1.41 H VS2, that would adjust your total from $11,341 wire price minus $907.28 to an adjusted wire price of $10,434.

https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.457-i-vs1-round-diamond-bfg-785501
https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/1.410-h-vs2-round-diamond-bfg-785542

Brian Gavin "Pre-order" Guarantee
WE GUARANTEE THAT THIS DIAMOND WILL HAVE THE FOLLOWING CHARACTERISTICS.
  • COLOR
  • CLARITY
  • AGS 000 H&A
    PERFORMANCE
  • PRE-ORDER DIAMOND NOW
  • APPROX. 15 DAYS FOR DELIVERY
  • PICTURES AND AGS LAB REPORT PROVIDED AFTER AGS LAB GRADING IS COMPLETE
Click to expand...
 
sledge said:
I will let others weigh in with more experience, but in general knots are a no-go for me. I can't post to the website as it's external (per forum rules) but below is a copy & paste of info about knots. This particular knot is on the bottom and may not be noticeable once set, etc. I'd still worry about the structural integrity, but perhaps I am being over-cautious. Regardless, it's not "mind clean" to me and I still wouldn't buy it.
Click to expand...
If the knot was going to be a problem, Whiteflash probably wouldn't add it to their ACA line. The inclusion is on the underside of a LGF, and it's VS2 clarity so as long as it's not raised nor noticeable, I wouldn't worry about it. However, I don't prefer the proportions as well the one I suggested yet I would still see if it's a decent lively stone.
 
blueMA said:
If the knot was going to be a problem, Whiteflash probably wouldn't add it to their ACA line. The inclusion is on the underside of a LGF, and it's VS2 clarity so as long as it's not raised nor noticeable, I wouldn't worry about it. However, I don't prefer the proportions as well the one I suggested yet I would still see if it's a decent lively stone.
Click to expand...

Good points. And you are probably correct. Just my butt cheeks puckered when I saw that and my own mind said "nope". Doesn't mean it's the best advice for the OP. Being an ACA, it's probably worth checking out.
 
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