Diamond IQ Quiz for Newbies

[aljdewey]

F&I, maybe it will make better sense to you this way:




The other day, you responded to a post about Blue Nile by saying "don't rule out ANY possibility". Does that mean I leap to the conclusion that you're "plugging" Blue Nile? NO. It means exactly what you said.....don't rule out any possibilty. It's sound advice, and just because BN MIGHT benefit doesn't negate the informative value of your comment.




I assume that that logic can be similarly following regarding the perceived "plugging" on the quiz. The fact that appraisers *might* benefit from sound advice doesn't make the advice any less valuable as it was intended - to caution the customer to take primary responsibility for being his own steward and not blindly trusting others to do so.


I seriously hope this resonates.




That's the point of the questionnaire. It's intended for BRAND NEW visitors here who are confused by what they've heard other places and are looking for some information. That's it.

 

[fire&ice]

Clearly you think I missed your point. I, clearly, did not.

By the very nature of trying to dispell marketing rumours, you are patronizing buying on line. The services sold on PS are two fold. Who participates on this forum? Who has the most to gain from this forum? 1. the internet vendors 2. Independent appraisals. BOTH have vested interest in the material here on PS.

I'm not the only one who thought the questionaire to be marketing for on-line buying. I'm through defending what I came away thinking. You can argue all you want on how I am *supposed* to interpret the questionaire. I only *know* how *I* interpreted it. But, then maybe you *really* didn't want my opinion. I thought it to be constructive criticism. If I felt that way, maybe others would too.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/1/2004 2:52:47 PM Giangi wrote:











This quiz is a great idea, but it doesn't look too fair to some B&M places that offer nothing but a great service and have the not so negligible advantage of being able to show you the diamond itself and not only a picture or a Sarin report. So I am with Fire and Ice.

As you noted, the material is simple and this is how you meant it to be. That's great. But, since we have a great tutorial, I expect a lurker to read it carefully prior to post or take the quiz.

Again, this is PURELY constructive criticism. Please don’t take my words as something personal. I just expressed my opinion hoping it could be helpful in order to make this site a better one.

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Giangi, believe me, not taking your comments as personal at all.

Look, you say you expect lurkers to read the tutorial. *I* expect people to ask questions before they make a purchase, but as we've all seen, what we expect people to do and what they actually do are often two different things.

You guys are making this WAAAAAAAY more involved than it's supposed to be. The point of the quiz isn't to plug B&Ms, to plug online vendors, to plug appraisers.....to plug ANYONE. The point of the quiz was simply this: Here are some common misconceptions about purchasing a diamond. That's ALL.....that's IT.

If B&Ms feel disadvantaged because they cannot offer Sarin info, I'm sure they've felt that way prior to this stupid questionnaire. Does this TELL people NOT to buy without a Sarin? NO. There are many tactics that B&Ms use that I think are unfair.....are you guys going to similarly jump on their cases and implore them to stop? I don't think so.

Let me tell you who this quiz is supposed to be fair to: the CONSUMER.....no one else.

This thing is peppered with phrases like "however you buy, ONLINE OR OFFLINE"......and "many online jewelers have lifetime trade-up policies JUST LIKE OFFLINE vendors....."

I'll say it AGAIN....the point of this questionnaire was NOT NOT NOT to steer anyone toward any particular venue of purchasing. It was just to give people some honest information to counter the misinformation that's out there from *whatever* source. Period.

If people want to interpret that as plugging the online vendors,......then that's how you want to see it, and so be it. I just cannot see how saying "it's a good idea to get a second opinion on your purchase (ONLINE OR OFFLINE)" can be construed as steering people toward an online purchase.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/1/2004 3:11:08 PM aljdewey wrote:




I just cannot see how saying 'it's a good idea to get a second opinion on your purchase (ONLINE OR OFFLINE)' can be construed as steering people toward an online purchase.

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Then have the page as a question & answer dispelling common myths about diamonds & particularly diamonds on the net. PERIOD. It looks *to me* like a marketing tool in it's current "questionaire" test your diamond knowledge form.

*TWO* questions involved sending a graded stone to an Independent Appraisers. While perhaps sage advice, great marketing for the I.A.'s as well especially since the point was driven home - not once - but twice. As I said, aside from the owner of the site, two business's benefit from material on PS - vendors *&* independent appraisers. The two very businesses that could pay for the benefit.

 

[aljdewey]

*TWO* questions involved sending a graded stone to an Independent Appraisers. While perhaps sage advice, great marketing for the I.A.'s as well especially since the point was driven home - not once - but twice. As I said, aside from the owner of the site, two business's benefit from material on PS - vendors *&* independent appraisers. The two very businesses that could pay for the benefit.
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TWO WHOLE QUESTIONS???? OH MY GOD.....that's too many. No wonder you're offended. I'm sure that as we speak, the appraisers are out placing ads to hire more help for the REAMS of business we're driving their way from this *very powerful*, coercive questionnaire.

Of course, everyone out there only needs to hear something once to fully grasp it. Repeating it is a complete waste of time. I wish that were true. I've said at least four times now that this was intended for new people just to get their feet wet, and no one seems to be getting that despite repetition.

(As an aside, questions 9 and 12 are very similar in their present incarnation, but they became that way through *constructive* efforts to address a flaw in question 9. The fact that two questions are materially similar does NOT make the leap to a *hidden agenda* to benefit appraisers. If the opinions truly were constructive, one could point out how similar those two questions were without suggesting so.)

What are you afraid of? That people cannot digest information for themselves and still choose to buy from a B&M? Mara's a case in point on this.....even after she learned all the information, she still choose to work with a B&M for other reasons, and that's GREAT. As long as she knew what to look for wherever she purchased.

I could see the problem with it if this was generated by vendors and appraisers, but it's not. The folks here benefit *all the time* from positive customer feedback, so let's not kid ourselves, okay? The most successful purchase decisions are the ones which are win-win.....for the vendor and the customer.

I could see the contention if the information given was encouraging or coercing customers to make a weak purchase online (buy this great RB stone with the 68% depth? Online is better - yeah!), but it isn't. Nor was it generated by ANYONE with a vested interest. I could see the contention if the upshot of the questions was "the ONLY safe place to buy is online, and ONLY with THESE vendors." But it's not.

The information in the questions can be JUST as usefully applied in the B&M climate. Of the several vendors I went to in person, all but two pushed very hard to steer me into the VS1/VS2 clarity direction - "you don't want SI1 stones, you'd be horrified if others noticed the INCLUSIONS in your stone! See how the VS stones *sparkle*?"

There are benefits to buying from a B&M. There are benefits to buying online. How an individual makes the determination which is best for him is supported by having useful information.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/1/2004 5:19:21 PM aljdewey wrote:

TWO WHOLE QUESTIONS???? OH MY GOD.....that's too many. No wonder you're offended. I'm sure that as we speak, the appraisers are out placing ads to hire more help for the REAMS of business we're driving their way from this *very powerful*, coercive questionnaire.

Of course, everyone out there only needs to hear something once to fully grasp it. Repeating it is a complete waste of time.

What are you afraid of? That people cannot digest information for themselves and still choose to buy from a B&M? -

I am not afraid of anything. I am not offended by anything. Clearly, you do not want to hear my opinion that I think the questionaire is slanted. I am not alone on this sentiment. So, go on with your bullying & spinning that I am afraid & offended. I am neither. I'm just a consumer who looks at this questionaire & rolls her eyes at the veiled marketing spin it *seems* to have - whether your intention or not.

No wait, I just love it. Nevermind.

 

[Mara]

Ahh Happy New Year to me...




I really don't want to debate with people about what they think is right for the quiz. Suggestions are more than welcome, but be constructive and please PM them to me. Since I have only gotten one PM, from Michelle Carmen (thanks gal) saying she liked the quiz and would try to think up more ideas...I will assume everyone's armchair quarterbacking and holepicking in this thread was just for fun?




The irony of it all is that I came up with this idea on a whim and pitched it to Leo to try to help US (meaning those of us who hang here on a daily basis) by taking a stab at answering some of the most basic questions that people come to ask--and by referring them to the most basic of newbie quizzes. They could absorb some basic information without having to read the 90 page tutorial first. Then at least we'd get some slightly more educated questions as opposed to the random 'So I bought this 67% table stone and the store said it was an ideal cut. What do you think?'. Yes *we* know the terminology is not right and they got taken for a ride. But they don't. Hence why arguiing over terminology down to the last syllable is really not constructive in this sense...WE know the drill, absolute newbies do not.




I then decided to make it a quiz because it seemed more fun that way, interactive as opposed to just standing on a soapbox and 'dispelling diamond myths'. If it's deemed too commercial, a simple PM to me saying 'you know this may be a little commercial?' would most likely take care of that on the next update.




People need to stop looking for the forest through the trees and just realize the walk itself can be really nice.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/1/2004 5:32:57 PM fire&ice wrote:





I am not afraid of anything. I am not offended by anything. Clearly, you do not want to hear my opinion that I think the questionaire is slanted. I am not alone on this sentiment. So, go on with your bullying & spinning that I am afraid & offended. I am neither. I'm just a consumer who looks at this questionaire & rolls her eyes at the veiled marketing spin it *seems* to have - whether your intention or not.

No wait, I just love it. Nevermind.

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I see....it's bullying because I don't agree with your viewpoint? It's okay for you to state what you think, but if I counter that, I'm bullying and spinning? You're not alone on this sentiment.....and that's intended to represent a majority? I'm not alone on how I see it either.......does that make me more right than you now?

You've expressed your opinion, and I've expressed mine. As is common with us, we don't agree. I, TOO, am a consumer, and I don't feel it is slanted toward online buying. The fact that I don't agree with your opinion doesn't mean I didn't hear it. But I do think that having a keniption over *two* questions about appraisals is a bit like making a mountain out of a molehill. But that's just my opinion, and you are free to disagree if you choose.

If you have a problem with the title of the piece, talk to Leonid. He's the one that titled it, to my knowledge.

If you seriously care about making it more balanced so it's palatable to you, then why not try to make additions instead of carping about how unfair it is to the B&M world? Everyone's got the arrows loaded to shoot a well-intentioned volunteer effort full of holes, but I don't see anyone trying to add to it themselves.

 

[pricescope]

Guys, please don't be looking for commies under the bed or any conspiracy. There are none

Mara and Aljdewey came up with this idea with the best intentions and having absolutely no commercial interest.

Garry proofed the quiz and I came up with “diamond iq” title. If there are constructive critics/suggestions I’ll be more than happy to discuss/consider it.

I also think that there are trustworthy B&M stores as well as in Internet. Garry is the best example.

On another hand, I was myself on a seminar for the trade where a renowned speaker discussed with B&M owners how to treat internet buyers. People in auditorium have shared their tricks how to confuse consumers who know too much because of the Internet. It was a real shame to listen.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

I proofed the quiz and did not think about it as promoting on line shopping or appraisers.

As many of you know I run a B&M store and do not sell online - we reluctantly do appraisals for online shoppers as a service - about 1 every 2 months. Reluctantly because they always want it done on the spot and our appraisers are all time poor senior management staff who fit valuation services in around running biz.

I thought the questions fairly applied to the FAQ's of newbie's.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/1/2004 6:08:42 PM leonid wrote:





On another hand, I was myself on a seminar for the trade where a renowned speaker discussed with B&M owners how to treat internet buyers. People in auditorium have shared their tricks how to confuse consumers who know too much because of the Internet. It was a real shame to listen.

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Gee, I wonder who's going to be in charge of running out to tell them all how "unfair" their tricks are? Surely, *no one* benefits from THEIR tom-foolery.

Hate to point this out, but no one here would have to level the playing field in the first place if these tricks weren't employed in the marketplace.

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/1/2004 6:12:16 PM Cut Nut wrote:





I proofed the quiz and did not think about it as promoting on line shopping or appraisers.

I thought the questions fairly applied to the FAQ's of newbie's.

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I guess this just illustrates that people see what they want to see, and not always what's there.

 

[strmrdr]

I think the quiz reflects what goes on in here in the forum.
There is a bias to online shopping and independant appraisers both here and on the quiz.
Well duh its an online forum for internet diamond purchasers!!
And as far as the independant appraisers go that is just common sence to seek the advise of an expert who has no stake in the purchase.
But common sence is so rare these days so it has to be repeated and repeated!

Question 6 needs some work otherwise the quiz fits well with the forum!

Thank you mara and Aljdewey good job!

ps: I think my faq is more fun :}

 

[aljdewey]

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On 1/1/2004 6:30:13 PM strmrdr wrote:





ps: I think my faq is more fun :}

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HA! I thought yours was more fun too......read it last night and laughed my head off. Nice job.

 

[pqcollectibles]

I like the idea of the quiz. It took me back to when I first started.

I wanted to buy a nice diamond pendant. I shopped around and got everything from the "Rap Trap" brokers/sellers, to the "All That" stores you should buy from, to the know nothings just trying to pedal their wares and make a buck. All local B&M's. No Maul chain stores. This all drove me to the Net to research just like I would if I were buying a digital camera or a car. And then I found Price Scope.

How many times have we had Newbies post, "Help! I'm on information overload!"?? Been there done that! But I didn't post. I lurked. I read the Tutorials. I visited the big websites that offer tons of info. I studied BS pics on different diamonds. I reviewed IS pics til I was pink in the eyes. I chatted and emailed with various Vendors. You name it, I did it. But I was on "Information Overload" and I couldn't find my diamond for all the rough laying around.

I would read a thread where someone posted a diamond. The diamond looked fine to me, but it would get picked apart or folks would find better for cheaper price. By sifting through the nuances, I began to get a feel for what to look for. Eventually, the boat load of information I'd learned began to fall into place.

I know I would have appreciated some sort of quick guide to help point me in the right direction. I think this quiz hits the basic FAQ's we commonly see from new people just starting out. Throwing in "meat and potatoes" questions could add to the confusion of an information clouded mind.

Maybe have an intermediate level Quiz to address finer points of cut, color, clarity, and pricing. There could even be a "Final Exam" where folks are guided through a simulated buying process. People could be given a budget, a set of size, color and clarity parameters, and a list of fictitious diamonds to test their new found skills. That would prompt folks to use the cut charts, price stats, look at Cert plots, etc. Once they finish, they would be given an explanation of how they did and why.

Maybe it's not feasible to add an Intermediate quiz or a "Final Exam" but the quicky quiz is a very good idea! Keeping it fun and interactive will help people learn more easily.

Just my $0.02 worth.

 

[valeria101]

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On 1/1/2004 7:35:58 PM pqcollectibles wrote:



Maybe it's not feasible to add an Intermediate quiz or a 'Final Exam' but the quicky quiz is a very good idea! Keeping it fun and interactive will help people learn more easily.----------------

GIA has an interactive tutorial, have you seen it? It does not deal with cut much, but the format is interesting. Perhaps they will expand on cut details once their cut grading system is out... Who knows

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/1/2004 5:43:38 PM aljdewey wrote:

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On 1/1/2004 5:32:57 PM fire&ice wrote:




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I see....it's bullying because I don't agree with your viewpoint? It's okay for you to state what you think, but if I counter that, I'm bullying and spinning? If you seriously care about making it more balanced so it's palatable to you, then why not try to make additions instead of carping about how unfair it is to the B&M world? Everyone's got the arrows loaded to shoot a well-intentioned volunteer effort full of holes, but I don't see anyone trying to add to it themselves.

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Afraid. Offended. And exactly where did I *state* this was unfair to the B&M world. These were *your* words. Instead of trying to *see* my point of view. You dismissed it as the rantings of someone having a keniption fit. You make my point of view seem unreasonable. Exactly where did I throw a keniption fit over two appraisal questions? I suppose pointing out redunancy is akin two having a keniption fit. Also, did I say my point of view was the majority? No, I stated my senitment was not a rouge one - again, your spin & rhetoric.

If you read back, I was agreeing with some of the quesitons that Giangi wrote. Why should I repeat his material? Did you ever ask what you may do to improve the questionaire? No, you just dismissed my viewpoint as me being afraid, offended & having a keniption fit. When in fact, I was stating my *honest* opinion. I had no arrows loaded to shoot your volunteer efforts down. I was just offering some constructive criticism on a work in progress. I felt & still feel that the questions had less to do with diamond knowledge & more to do with dispelling internet myths. And also, silly me for thinking that the AGS wasn't just some pesky little organization using the term ideal.

Leonid, my whole point is this. If I see it this way, perhaps others may as well. I came away from the quiz with the impression that this site was not presenting unbiased opinion. As a newbie, I (the way I think) would call in question any of the material/knowledge put forth on this site. It is not a questionaire about diamond knowledge. It is a questionaire helping people dispell internet myths. IMHO, if you renamed it as such, I would not view it as a vieled marketing attempt - just a counterpoint to what *some* B&M retailers may use against the internet.

Sorry Mara that I violated *your* law to PM you. Gee, I was under the impression that this *is* an open forum to discuss ideas. Mia Coupa.

And just for the record. I have no bias one way or the other to the internet Or B&M's. I see the benefits & pitfalls of both.

Silly me for disenting from the party line.

 

[Summer]

I’m not a regular here but do like to visit the site as my time permits, which isn’t often. I’m also not a newbie, but I know there’s much I can learn yet. So having said that, and from my perspective, I have to say the first thing that jumped out at me after reading this quiz (other than question 6) was that it came across as a marketing tool. A few questions definitely appear to have a bias towards purchasing diamonds on-line.

A q&a section could better address the advantages/disadvantages of both purchasing on-line vs. b&m.

I think Giangi’s questions are right on target in terms of helping a newbie learn how to choose a diamond. These questions directly relate to the properties/characteristics of a diamond.

I think with some refinement this quiz could be a fast and simple tool to provide a consumer with some insight to select a diamond based on it's qualities and encourage the newbie to further read info like the tutorial to learn more.

Maybe a quiz to be taken at the end of the tutorial would be another option provided the questions would be directly related to that reading.

I didn’t read through every post due to time but these are just some thoughts I had and I sure hope no one finds them offensive, as that’s certainly not the intention.

I’m off to a mtg. Good luck with this!

 

[pricescope]

Thank you guys for constructive imput.

We'll review and probably rephrase the text.

 

[Mara]

F&I I will repeat this once more so that hopefully it makes sense. Please PM me any actual ideas you'd like see added into the quiz. All I said was that I didn't want to debate over who was right. You are ALWAYS right, no sense in wasting my typing strokes.




BUT...to be really honest, the marketing tone is easily modified, I am a marketer after all and copywrite for my company often. But as for the 'oh this quiz is biased towards shopping online'. OF COURSE IT IS. This is an online forum isn't it? Let's not beat around the bush. Online gets the worst rap so why shouldn't we beef it up a bit and talk it up? It's not the big-bad world that B&M's tell their consumers it is. And to be really really honest, I don't care about B&M's. Haven't found one I like that much anyway to champion their cause. YOU can do that F&I. And forgive me if I'm wrong but possibly couldn't the reason that you didn't get taken when you were searching for your ring was because you are familiar with that industry and also you're not the random idiot walking into the local store? You were armed with knowledge and you've haggled over items before. Seems to me you aren't exactly the average joe consumer we see come onto here. So hard to draw the line parallel isn't it?




So since this thread seems to live on---there are my two cents. Not debatable.




If you want something added into the quiz, send it to me via PM. What's the big deal? No law there but since I am the one updating the damn document, it would be nice if I didn't have to sludge through all the CRAP in this thread to find some constructive edits. THANKS for your time.

 

[fire&ice]

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On 1/2/2004 2:26:26 PM Mara wrote:


All I said was that I didn't want to debate over who was right. You are ALWAYS right, no sense in wasting my typing strokes.

And I thought it was *you* that is ALWAYS right.

I'm not debating over who is right & who is wrong. Just that my thoughts weren't dismissed as some crazy notion. I was pointing out something that I believe may be misconstrued & taint the whole validity of PS board. Just a spin as I saw it. And clearly your point to get across. IT'S A VALID ONE! I'm completely confused as to why I was ridiculed for voicing one of the very *points* of the survey.

As for constructive criticism, I think the questionaire should be renamed "diamond knowledge for buying over the net" "Internet diamond buying 101". "12 myths to dispell." Something related to the very point you want to get across. Do a poll w/ various suggestions.

I can not offer any more information as:
1. What is your goal?
2. How many questions do you want to have?
3. Do you want more than one questionaire/survey?

If you want more diamond knowledge meat, then questions on fluor, what is the near colorless range, what cut holds more color. I could go on. But, don't know the answers to the questions above.

Mara, I maintain that open discussion is important. I don't do PM's well & usually find them confusing to read & to answer. Quite frankly, unless someone pm's me back with my full text, I don't even know what I wrote. IMHO, PM's are for more personal information. This is a very public questionaire with an impact on the "board" not a personal impact.

For the record, once again, I'm not a big supporter of many B&M's. I had bad experiences starting out also. It's just the same argument - the sentiment just seems to black & white. Like -big=low quality. B&M = more money/poorer cut. It's not fact - just a trend I see here. Yes, I had a head's up. I've been buying & selling to this B&M (one owner) for a decade. My stone came off the jeweler's net. I don't see why all of a sudden I am the cheerleader for B&M's. I think people buy for various reasons. The experience of a non-virtual store is a valid reason - seeing, feeling, having someone get you champagne, etc. Perhaps not my focus - but valid non the less. After all, GOG & NiceIce have B&M stores. That said, I wouldn't hestitate buying over the net. In fact, I did.