Diamond IQ Quiz for Newbies

[pricescope]

Mara and Aljdewey (thank you!) put together diamond quiz for newbies.

Test you Diamond IQ!

 

[DexterSinister]

Cool ...

I'm a diamond wizard.

[um, yeah ... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.]

 

[strmrdr]

leonid you have a pm.

 

[DiamondExpert]

I thought #6 was misleading in that the term "Ideal" is an operational definition defined by the AGS ranges of proportion, polish and symmetry.

 

[aljdewey]

I agree, Gary, and voiced that same concern. The AGS website, under "cut", does specify ideal proportions. I think this question needs to be rephrased.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Wow, I am a wizard. Got 11 out of 12 right! lol I don't know very much about diamonds, though. . . this was WAY too easy. IF you asked any depth/table questions, stuff like that, I'd would have scored much lower

Michelle

 

[oldude]

Gee I'm a Wizard! Shhhhh don't tell the wife, she thinks I'm under her "spell". Funny..... so did I

 

[elmo]

For #10 would suggest saying "look" the same size to be explicit.

 

[strmrdr]

lol at the comments on 6 thats what my pm was about....

 

[Mara]

Michelle...chances are most of us will score high, the quiz really should assist the newbies who float in and are looking for the basic help with some of the frequently asked Qs!

As for the 'ideal' cut question, on the AGS cert itself, if a stone has ID Polish, Symm and Proportions it is referred to as 'Cut Grade: Ideal'. So by saying a stone has ideal 'cut' its a common term and it refers back to the AGS cert itself. What if we mod the Q to be 'cut grade' instead of just 'cut'? (Then we'd have t modify the answer slightly since it would be *true* but we'd need to explain why etc.).




I should also note that this is just the first iteration of this 'quiz'...I am making more edits to it next week so if you have suggestions or modifications, please PM them to me and I will see what I can do to get them added in/changed.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

----------------
On 12/31/2003 2:42:05 PM Mara wrote:


Michelle...chances are most of us will score high, the quiz really should assist the newbies who float in and are looking for the basic help with some of the frequently asked Qs! ---

Hahaha - Yeah, you're right. I noticed the "newbie" part after doing the quiz. I was so enthusiastic about starting the questionaire, I didn't read the rest too closely

Michelle

 

[Jennifer5973]

10 out of 12 correct--A testament to what I've learned on this site from everyone!!

I never knew there was no such thing as a "flawless" diamond with perfect clarity, even IF!

 

[MichelleCarmen]

----------------
On 12/31/2003 3:12:19 PM Jennifer5973 wrote:

10 out of 12 correct--A testament to what I've learned on this site from everyone!!

I never knew there was no such thing as a 'flawless' diamond with perfect clarity, even IF!----------------

Neither did I! I though IF WAS entirely unflawed. lol Now, there is no reason to justify spending so much extra for one. I guess I'll just have to settle for a mere VVS1

Michelle

 

[iceprincess]

Wow, diamond wizard (I got 10 out of 12 right) how complimentary! Thanks for putting this quiz together.

 

[aljdewey]

Mara, that's part of the picture, but not all of it. Here's what the AGS website says under the heading "Cut":

"One of the most important factors in determining quality in diamonds is the cut. Cut is the only value factor that is a result of human skill. A diamond's beauty must be balanced against the inevitable loss of weight necessitated by the very process of cutting. Along with the diamond's size and shape, the minute details of workmanship play an important role in the overall beauty and sparkle of the diamond.

The AGS Laboratories was the first diamond grading entity to provide consumers with a credible analysis of diamond cut, including the diamond's symmetry, proportions and polish."

This says that the grading report evaluates cut INCLUDING symmetry, proportions, and polish....but not LIMITED to those items. The "grading" number assigned to cut relates to how closely the diamond's proportion measurements fall to the specified "ideal" proportions (for cut) identified by AGS. It is accompanied by the graphic below, which is entitled "AGS Ideal CUT proportions".

(You know this already from your stone.....you've mentioned that your stone is graded an AGS7 because of the crown angle.....which is "cut" - has nothing to do with symmetry, polish, etc.)

The question as it appears now should have an answer of "true".

If you want to make it a "true" response, great, but we should point out in the response that 1) even stones with AGS 0 cut grading aren't guaranteed performers. Some stones can meet all the numbers and still not perform well. 2) Not all stones that are called "ideal" stones refer to the AGS definition of ideal....ideal is an unregulated term, so the definition of "ideal" can vary widely depending on who you're talking to. Just because someone calls a diamond an "ideal" cut doesn't mean it is cut according to AGS ideal proportions.......just like not all stones called H&A are true H&A stones.

 

[fire&ice]

Al, I, too, was confused w/ the whole "ideal" thing. Technically, AGS is a force. Their terms hold up. Perhaps you can phrase the question in terms of "will an AGS0 out perform a AGS7." Trick question to a newbie - but to the point.

Also, I think the IF/FL question somewhat misleading. To the "grading" aspects of the stone a FL diamond is just that. Perhaps if the questioned was re-phrased. For example, an IF stone when magnified under highest power will absolutely be seen as flawless. This question is more of an interest gee whiz question. A fun one though.

For some reason, I did not think IF/FL was interchangable. I thought that FL was of higher standard. Maybe I'm thinking of another system (HRD?).

All that said, since I am on a roll, the questionaire does favor buying on-line.

In all honesty, I don't know how fair that really is. Quite frankly, aside from #6 "ideal", that's what I came away thinking. It may not have been your intention - just my perception. Or is this a questionaire to dispell myths? If so, it's valid. Bring that to point. If you want to tackle something bigger, ask an expert to comment on "warped stones". I think Garry had a good answer for that one. The explaination would get some google hits as well. But then, that whole warped thing *really* steams me.

If one truly wants this questionaire to evolve, open discussion is the way to go.

As always, my 2cents. Or, maybe that is my New Year's Resolution.

 

[mdx]

Mara, most participants seemed to get 10 out of 12 Is their a common 2 questions they are getting stuck on?

Johan

 

[pqcollectibles]

I scored 11 out of 12!

I missed the infamous #6

, but got the IF/FL Q right. There was a discussion about IF/FL recently and I did learn something!

Something about the wording of #6. I stumbled a bit with it. First I had the answer correct, then over thought it, tricked myself and answered wrong.

Great Quiz, Ladies!

Many ground rule points covered to get any Newbie started in the right direction toward thinking, reading, and learning!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

In response to Gary's comment on the term "ideal"

It is hard to imagine that one organization could claim to own the usage and meaning of a word.

Since the quiz is aimed at newbie's. Newbie's can easily be misled into believing that a trustworthy organization would correctly use a word with such a simple strong meaning.

The method of grading a diamond as 'ideal' that the AGSLab uses is now apparently widely agreed to be less than ideal (pun definitely intended).

 

[valeria101]

Great Idea! The number of Qs and topics are really right! Hope no one spent the New Year Eve on them though...

I just could not keep myself from picking through the fine print again... Here are some comments, if I may. Please disregard if unwelcome.

- For Q #5: "Hearts and Arrows on a diamond mean excellent symmetry in the stone."
The term "excellent symmetry" may get confused with the reading of a GIA cert: and that surely does not certify H&As.

- For Q #9: "Diamond grading reports are 100% accurate and eliminate the need of independent evaluation."
Ths is tricky, 'cause the two parts of the question are not perfectly dependent: what 100% accurate means is debatable, but even perfect grading reports do not eliminate the need for evaluation... I'd guess. And, isn't Q #12 about the same?


BTW: Why no Qs to test wether GIA (and or other certs) are read correctly? It seems like at least some past threads dealt with overinterpretation of the color and clarity grades on them... So how about a Q along the lines of "what is the last eye clean clarity grade?" and "what color grades are white?". or such. In my opinion, Q #7 ("SI clarity does not guarantee that the stone will be eye-clean.') may further reinforce the impulse to buy into the top clarity grades only (and perhaps sacrifice cut quality for clarity).

Oh, well, since I went this far... maybe we should say something about what inspired these Qs? (e.g. not a marketing ploy, but the archive of popular Qs on the Forum which can be offered for reference?).

 

[valeria101]

One more

...

Not sure I understood correctly the debate about #6: "An AGS0 grade means that the diamond is an 'ideal' cut."

Is it about wether AGS0 defines the 'ideal cut' (which is the first impulse, given the citation marks on 'ideal' which leads the reader to err towards AGS's definition of the ideal cut), as oposed to guarantee the EXPECTED properties of a TOP diamond (~ idealized diamond properties) ?

Maybe the Q should read something like: "Do all AGS0 "ideal" diamonds have ideal (or 'the best') sparkle one can get?

Now, why don't I go through those Q's myself ?!

 

[Giangi]

I missed the 'ideal' question. Thus my score was 11 out of 12. If I may say so, some questions are waaaaaay too easy... You should put more ????'s about table, crown, pavilion, depth and so on. But this is only my perspective and please take it as a constructive comment.

I would like to see something like:

If you're looking at a diamond and can see without too much effort a trace of color, then the stone is likely to be:
G
H
K

If you're looking at a diamond with 54% table, 65.4% depth, excellent polish and symmetry, there are great chances that it's ideal.
T F

A well cut 1ct diamond should measure:
approx 5.9mm
approx 6.3mm
approx 6.5mm
approx 6.7mm

If a stone has faint (slight) fluorescence, it's gonna be cloudy
Never
Always
Sometimes

If you're looking at a 1ct round brilliant diamond, and you can pretty easily see an inclusion thorough the crown side, it's likely to be
VVS 2
VS 2
SI 1
I 1

Just a few suggestions

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 1/1/2004 10:48:03 AM Giangi wrote:

If I may say so, some questions are waaaaaay too easy... You should put more ????'s about table, crown, pavilion, depth and so on. But this is only my perspective and please take it as a constructive comment.

----------------

Hi, Giangi: Maybe I can give you some insight into why the quiz seems so easy.

This quiz is designed for the person who stumbles on pricescope and knows NOTHING except the little bit of tripe they've been fed in a jewelry store. The intent here is to give some very basic information when people first come here that is non-threatening, expands their view beyond what they've been told to focus on (like clarity is what makes a diamond sparkle - BAH), and hopefully intrigue them enough to want to learn more.

Yes, the material is simple. It's supposed to be. When I came here, I felt like a "kindergartener" in the world of diamonds. I didn't even know what depth and crown angle meant. This quiz is designed to help someone who knows almost nothing begin to realize that selecting a diamond is far more than "a Leo diamond sparkles more because it has extra facets, so it outperforms other diamonds." HOGWASH.

In formulating the questions, we focused on the most common misconceptions people have when they first come here: "The jewelry store said it was an ideal cut" (even though it has a 61% table!), "I want top quality in clarity so my diamond will sparkle more", etc.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 12/31/2003 5:38:38 PM fire&ice wrote:


All that said, since I am on a roll, the questionaire does favor buying on-line. In all honesty, I don't know how fair that really is. Quite frankly, aside from #6 'ideal', that's what I came away thinking. It may not have been your intention - just my perception. Or is this a questionaire to dispell mythsIf so, it's valid. ----------------

F&I, that's exactly what it is.......a simple, fun way to dispel some of the myths (which have been developed by the B&M world feeding kaka to the masses.)

I can see where a few of the questions seem slanted toward online buying.....specifically these:

Diamonds sold on the internet are primarily rejects or stones that don’t meet the grade at your mall or local jeweler.

Buying from a Brick and Mortar jeweler is safer than buying online.

I don't feel the other questions are biased toward online buying at all. The question about jewerly store lighting makes the point that ALL diamonds look sparkly under the right lighting and to take the diamond you're considering to other light sources.....like the storefront window. It doesn't say "don't buy in a jewelry store".

As far as the online-related questions being fair........why do you think those questions are here in the first place? Where do you think consumers get the idea that it's risky to buy online and that the diamonds available on the internet are "rejects that traditional jewelers wouldn't sell"? Do you think they dream that up themselves.......NO. That's what they are told by their "trusted" local jewelers who are using fear to dissuade customers from considering online sources. Do you consider *that* fair? I certainly don't think so, and that's the point of the questions.

I think it's unfair, unimaginative, fearful and sleazy for local jewelers to tell customers that diamonds on the net are "reject, irregular diamonds".....but they do it anyway with no regard to fairness. As such, I have no qualms identifying such misinformation as BULLSH*T.

I don't care if someone buys online or offline....what I do care about is that he has solid, correct information to make a wise purchase and get the most for his dollar. To some, most for their dollar is personal service at the B&M store, and if so, great. For me, most for my dollar was a better cut quality stone than I could find locally. The one jeweler who did get in an AGS 000 stone....his price for a .93 carat was only $400 less than what I paid for a 1.244 carat. There's *no way* I could have gotten as much for my money locally, and had I listened to fear-mongering my local jewelers tried to instill, I wouldn't have even considered online.

That's the point of the questionnaire.....to get beyond the narrow window that most jewelers want them to look through (which is a self-serving window) and give them a broader spectrum to consider.

 

[Patty]

I got 10 right and I'm a newbie. What do I win...a diamond ring?!

 

[fire&ice]

But Al, not all B&M's perpetuate the myths you speak of. In fact, my diamond came from a long standing B&M. I experienced none of the bullcarp.

That said, I think the biggest hurdle for on-line diamond vendors is the Mystique & Romance of buying in a *traditional* venue as the B&M. The on-line diamonds are a new fangled way to doing business. Something that is slow to mesh w/ such a *traditional* tradition as an engagement ring. Didn't one poster call buying an engagement diamond on the net "cheesy".

While I can understand wanting to counter-balance some of the weighted information that consumers may hear "out there", it still seems like a "sales pitch". I'm with Giangi. The quiz should have some more meat to it. Questions 2,3,&11 are directly slanted to buying on the net. That's 25% of the questions. Couple that with the plugs for independent evaluation - 9 & 12, & you're up to 40% of *seemingly* self-serving questions.

Or am I missing the point as to what PS is all about - Unbiased information? BTW, after the 1st couple questions, I knew exactly *how* to answer - 12 out of 12.

I'm not trying to poo-poo your questionaire as I think it's a great idea. Just trying to refine it as to not appear to be an info-mercial. Just my 3c's.

 

[valeria101]

Fire& Ice,

I was wandering about this marketing tone, too, but gave up dismissing it given the argument below. Is this very wrong?

Do you think many first-tyme Pricescope browsers would trully believe this is a completely non-commercial environment? Self-serving or not, if one is intriguided by these Qs it is also likely that he will consider online sellers as a mainstream commercial outlet (marketing and all). Pricescope is about online buying, not just diamonds, right?

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 1/1/2004 2:04:26 PM fire&ice wrote:

But Al, not all B&M's perpetuate the myths you speak of. In fact, my diamond came from a long standing B&M. I experienced none of the bullcarp.

Absolutely right.......where did I say that ALL B&Ms perpetuate the myths? I didn't at all. What I said is that the people who have come here and expressed concern that internet diamonds are inferior to B&M diamonds generally tell us that the source of that misinformation was their B&M store. Just because some B&Ms do it doesn't mean they all do. Frankly, I don't care where the misinformation comes from....the point of including this point on the questionnaire is to dispel misinformation that IS being spread in the marketplace, whatever the source.

Again, I don't much care where people purchase.....some prefer purchasing in person, some prefer online, and some prefer other channels. What I DO object to is consumers closing their minds to ANY possibility because someone has misinformed them.

That said, I think the biggest hurdle for on-line diamond vendors is the Mystique & Romance of buying in a *traditional* venue as the B&M. The on-line diamonds are a new fangled way to doing business. Something that is slow to mesh w/ such a *traditional* tradition as an engagement ring. Didn't one poster call buying an engagement diamond on the net "cheesy".

I don't know.....did someone say that? Look, the questionnaire isn't here to tell people how to buy and/or where to buy from. The point of it is to provide some good information to people who might want it. It's about people learning about ALL the avenues and not being fed misinformation by those who have a vested interest in a sale, whether online or offline.

Assume Joe Q. customer and I are both in the market for a 1 ct. H, SI1 diamond. We find two comparable diamonds....one is offline and one is online. The online diamond costs $1500 less. If Joe Q. feels it's worth an extra $1500 to get the "mystique", I applaud his choice......I personally don't find mystique in paying $1500 more, but if Joe Q. DOES find mystique in that, then he should shop the B&M. Every individual--armed with GOOD INFORMATION--has to determine what and where he wants to purchase based on his OWN values.

I can appreciate that some people want the experience of shopping together for a ring, and I'm not trashing that idea at all. For those who want that experience, have at it. But the fact that some people want that experience emphatically does *not* mean everyone else does. Rich and I DID go out and shop the B&M stores while we were looking.....and yes, there is some benefit to walking hand-in-hand, faces glowing, to look at rings. But let's also acknowledge that feeling typically stops at the door. Our experience was anything BUT mystique-y or romantic. Having someone try to hard-sell you on their diamond 1 ct., G, VS2 diamond being worth $16K - but we're willing to give it to you today for $6400.....I don't find that aspect of it horribly romantic.

While I can understand wanting to counter-balance some of the weighted information that consumers may hear "out there", it still seems like a "sales pitch". I'm with Giangi. The quiz should have some more meat to it. Questions 2,3,&11 are directly slanted to buying on the net. That's 25% of the questions. Couple that with the plugs for independent evaluation - 9 & 12, & you're up to 40% of *seemingly* self-serving questions.

Or am I missing the point as to what PS is all about - Unbiased information? BTW, after the 1st couple questions, I knew exactly *how* to answer - 12 out of 12.

I'm not trying to poo-poo your questionaire as I think it's a great idea. Just trying to refine it as to not appear to be an info-mercial. Just my 3c's.

Yes, you are missing the point - completely. But that's okay. Questions 2, 3, and 11 are not slanted toward encouraging people to buy on the net, they are to dispel the misinformation that it's MORE risky to buy on the net and that the product available is INFERIOR. F&I, that's simply not true. The ONLY, ONLY goal of those questions is let people know those statements aren't true.

You're darn right the questionnaire is intended to be self-serving....self-serving to the CUSTOMER. Nothing is this quiz says "it's better to buy online, people who buy at B&Ms are stupid" or any such thing. We didn't sit down and say "gee, how can we get more people to buy online." Instead, we said, "isn't it funny how the same questions come up OVER AND OVER from new people when they come here. Wouldn't it be easier to point them to an FAQ instead of telling them "do a search" (an answer which I HATE....not horribly helpful and it could take someone *forever* to read two years worth of posts).

Now instead of being sound advice to suggest an independent appraisal, it's self-serving? That's plugging WHO? By that logic, it's plugging the insurance industry to suggest that someone insure their diamond, then, and it's plugging the medical community to suggest people get a second opinion on a diagnosis, right? Give me a break. The point of suggesting appraisals is the same point as the rest of the questionnaire......"Don't trust others to be looking out for your best interests during purchase. Confirm the information for yourself." That's not self-serving.....it's common sense, for Pete's sake.

Honestly, this is precisely why trying to lend a hand is a double-edged sword. We tried to come up with something that would be helpful to people based on the questions that come up over and over again on the forum, and give a fun, easy way to get some elementary, entry level, basic information. It wasn't intended to have "meat" ...it's supposed to be a *starting* point......an appetizer, not a whole feast. This wasn't intended to replace the wheel.....it wasn't intended to replace the more detailed tutorial. It was intended for a basic fun place to start and make people want to learn more.

Let me say it again, because it keeps getting missed: We *don't care* if people buy online or offline. We don't care if people get appraisals or not. What we care about is that people have information to make a *smart, EDUCATED* purchase.....wherever that will be....and don't trust others to be looking out for their interests. That's it....that's all. Sum total. NO hidden agenda.

You're totally missing the point of what this was supposed to be. I guess it is true....no good deed goes unpunished.

For those who find it helpful, great. For those who don't, there's always the rest of the tutorial.
----------------

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 1/1/2004 2:14:24 PM valeria101 wrote:

Fire& Ice,

Do you think many first-tyme Pricescope browsers would trully believe this is a completely non-commercial environment? Self-serving or not, if one is intriguided by these Qs it is also likely that he will consider online sellers as a mainstream commercial outlet (marketing and all). Pricescope is about online buying, not just diamonds, right?----------------

Clearly PS is not a completely non-commercial environment - just as is any business. Then, following your logic, the questionaire should be more tailored to newbies buying on-line for the first time - if indeed that is part of the intent.

 

[Giangi]

Al, your points are taken, but I'm still of the same opinion. This quiz is a great idea, but it doesn't look too fair to some B&M places that offer nothing but a great service and have the not so negligible advantage of being able to show you the diamond itself and not only a picture or a Sarin report. So I am with Fire and Ice.

As you noted, the material is simple and this is how you meant it to be. That's great. But, since we have a great tutorial, I expect a lurker to read it carefully prior to post or take the quiz. Or at least, he/she should watch Garry's mini video. In this way they would get a very basic understanding of the four C's and should be able to get a fairly good score in the quiz.
Again, this is PURELY constructive criticism. Please don’t take my words as something personal. I just expressed my opinion hoping it could be helpful in order to make this site a better one.