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Diamond for an engagement ring

saymanek

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
32
Hi All,

Could you please advise if I am not ripped off by the local jewellery ?
The diamond will be set in an egagement ring :)

My local jewelery prepared an offer for me:

1) HRD certificate

0.43ct / H/ VS1 / excellent proportions, polish, symmetry, brilliant shape,
depth 58.6%, table 61%,

2) IGI Mumbai certificate

0.47ct / H / VS2/ cut very good / pol & sym excellent / fluo none / table 56.5 /


Those two diamonds are in almost the same price - options no 2 is 15usd more expensive (about 1100USD) . I have also seen the offer from foreign jewelery shops such as JamesAllen, but they are not shipping to my country (Poland). Are those two mentioned above worth to buy it? If you need some more information from the certificate - please let me know :) I will try to put here the images of it.

Many thanks!
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488
Hi saymanek,

A definite no to the first, and I'd pass on the second too even without all of the numbers as it's an IGI certificate, and we recommend sticking to GIA/AGS.

Whiteflash delivers to Poland, if you're interested. This would be my pick:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3621240.htm

But they have several in your price range, especially if you're comfortable going to "I" color:

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3497451.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3497448.htm

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3633166.htm
 

saymanek

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
32
Hi!

Many thanks for a quick reply!

What is wrong with the two picked by me ? It is only wrong, because it is not GIA/AGS certificate ? Or the parameters of the 2 mentioned above are wrong (and which ones are bad?) :)

Regards!
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488
No problem!

The parameters of the first are bad-- you want the depth to measure more like the table, and the table to measure more like the depth, ideally (does that make sense? Unless the numbers are switched.) The second is due to the certificate, not because it's necessarily bad, but the more trusted around here are GIA/AGS if you're buying without the tools we recommend using (or having the depth, table, crown and pavilion angles at the very least). Plus, you can do better than VG cut if you're comfortable buying online. The ones I listed are all either EX or Ideal cuts. :)

Would you rather buy locally? If so, are you able to get all the info from the IGI certificate?
 

saymanek

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
32
The total price of this second option is 1150usd. Buying from the foreign coutry means additional taxes/duties.

screenshot_2016-03-05-14-03-11-1.png

Here you can find the sreen of the certificate (i hid the number of the diamond).

Thanks for your help!
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488
Thanks for the certs! Both sets of numbers are way outside of what we recommend. A definite pass on both. Would your jeweler be able to source diamonds with GIA certificates?

The Blue Nile link I posted above says the total includes VAT, but would there be too much in additional taxes?
 

saymanek

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
32
In the european union there will be only VAT (without duties).

Could you please recommend for me in Blue Nile (or in the any other dealer which provides shipment to Poland from European Union to avoid duties?) few diamonds for the 1100-1150 USD (total cost with 23% VAT)

Many thanks for your help!
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488
saymanek|1457188548|4000177 said:
This one is also outside of our recommended specs, but it's a lot closer than the HRD/IGI numbers! This is what we use to weed out the bad performers: http://ideal-scope.com/online-holloway-cut-adviser/ (You want the score to be 2 and under.)

Numbers only give you part of the picture, which is why I was recommending Signature Ideals. These are the two with the best looking GCALs in budget (the GCAL links shows actual photos of the diamond). "I" color should be just fine at .40 ct.

http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD06062446 (Check to see if this one's eye-clean)
http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD05188504

Generally speaking, here are safe numbers if you don't like the Sig Ideals:

Depth: 60-62.4
Table: 54-58
Crown angle: 34-35.0
Pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9
 

saymanek

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
32
Great!

What about this I colour ? I am afraid about it... As a total amatour will I see the difference in comparison with G or H?
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488
saymanek|1457190426|4000190 said:
Great!

What about this I colour ? I am afraid about it... As a total amatour will I see the difference in comparison with G or H?
I can't say for sure (I don't have your eyes :cheeky:) but I think it'd be just fine. The diamonds you were looking at with your jeweler may have been GIA-equivalent I or J color, anyway. I is still white- it shouldn't look yellow.

If you have some time, this may be helpful: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9V_Ng2-8OmE
 

saymanek

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
32
Thanks!

What should I rather to focus on - to buy a diamond sig ideal/I colour or maybe ideal cut/better colour?

Regards!
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488

pfunk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
770
Here are a few for you to take a peek at:

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD06264679 -Small table, very clean, great angles, hits 5mm

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD06752122 -lower clarity, crystal is main inclusion (probably eye clean at 0.4c but I would check), good numbers

http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD06495015 - Small table, medium fluoro, super clean with great numbers

I would be asking Blue Nile about the color TONE of each stone. They may have notes from the polisher that state whether they are yellow, gray, brown, etc. Numbers look great on the two VVS stones, so the color tone would be the one hangup to definitely check on.

EDIT: Sorry, I just saw that you were looking at $1150 after the VAT. I will have to check again.
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488
pfunk|1457278649|4000547 said:
Here are a few for you to take a peek at:
Make sure these can be sent to Poland, however. Some diamonds available to the US aren't available to Poland (for whatever reason!).
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,472
saymanek|1457190426|4000190 said:
Great!

What about this I colour ? I am afraid about it... As a total amatour will I see the difference in comparison with G or H?
In a well cut diamond of this size that you are looking for, you should not readily view the difference between an H and an I, especially face up. In a diamond over 1 ct you will more readily see the difference from the side, but little difference from the top, unless you have particularly color sensitive eyes. (This is assuming accurate grading of the diamond, which is why we recommend AGS and GIA in this country.)

Shipping to Poland via Federal Express should not be an issue for a diamond this size. I use FedEx because they do such a good job of doing the paperwork for importation and any taxes to many different countries. Different countries have different insurance limits also. For example, shipping into Mexico I can only insure for $100, but shipping into Poland I can insure for up to $25,000. I suspect the vendor of your choice will have similar limits, depending on their insurance company.

You may want to read up on this site some of the recommended parameters for a great looking diamond. It will take you a couple of hours of research, but will result in you passing on dogs and having only a gem of true beauty shipped to you in Poland.

Wink
 

saymanek

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
32
Hi All!

Many thanks for your helpdful replies! The query for idealscope images + notes about colour tones was sent to BN for those diamonds:

http://www.bluenile.com/pl/build-your-own-ring/diamond-details/LD06636438

http://www.bluenile.com/pl/build-your-own-ring/diamond-details/LD06705927

http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD06686399

http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD06062446

http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD05188504


Is there maybe another dealer of loose diamonds (from US for example) which provide with shippment to Poland (duties/customs for loose diamonds are 0%, only 23% VAT)?

Thanks!
 

saymanek

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
32
And 2nd thing:

should I look only at HCA numbers (even if cut grade, symmetry is not excellent) ?

Thanks!
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,472
You need to do some homework.

HCA is only a rejection tool, not a selection tool.

You appear to be looking at lists of diamonds and selecting the cheapest. This is NOT going to get you a good looking diamond. If you do not do your homework,

It is YOUR money, so spend it as you wish, but there is no magic pill to swallow that will do all the work for you.

Wink
 

saymanek

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
32
I wrongly formulated my question :) Of course not only, but the first step of selection should be HCA numbers or ideal (symmetry, polish etc parameters) ?

I'm still waiting for idealscope images from BN :)

Regards!
 

E B

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
9,488
saymanek|1457375369|4001111 said:
I wrongly formulated my question :) Of course not only, but the first step of selection should be HCA numbers or ideal (symmetry, polish etc parameters) ?

I'm still waiting for idealscope images from BN :)

Regards!
Unfortunately, Blue Nile doesn't provide IS images, but sometimes they can provide a photo (and they may be able to tell you something about tint, though I'm not sure).
 

saymanek

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
32
Hi All!

I have received a reply from BlueNile:

"Diamonds-
LD06062446 http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD06062446 0.40-Carat Blue Nile Signature Round Diamond

LD06636438 http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD06636438 0.43-Carat Round Diamond

LD06686399 http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD06686399 0.41-Carat Round Diamond

LD06705927 http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD06705927 0.46-Carat Round Diamond

LD05188504 http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD05188504 0.42-Carat Blue Nile Signature Round Diamond

The Blue Nile Signature diamonds already have Ideal Scope equivalent photographs for you to see on our web site. When you are on the product page for each diamond, click on the GCAL logo. The photos are in the center of the report listed under "Optical Symmetry Analysis." Unfortunately the suppliers of the other diamonds do not have the ability to supply Ideal Scope Images. What I can tell you is the both LD06686399 and LD06705927 have the proportions we require of our Blue Nile Signature cut diamonds, so I expect their optics will be the same. In terms of cut proportions and crown and pavilion angles, LD06686399 is the nicest diamond. It comes the closet to absolute Ideal. The fact that it also is a VVS2, with faint fluorescence and not as expensive as two of the others makes it an even more attractive buy. As a gemologist, this diamond would be my recommendation.

I will ask the suppliers to inspect the color of the diamonds. One of our diamond support team members will send you the results within the next 48 hours."


As you can see, they are not able to provide with the IdealScope Images for not Blue Nile Signature diamonds. I have sent them a reply to provide the photos (if available) of Blue Nile Signature Round Diamonds in higher magnification (the real photo in GCAL is only 10x).

As you can see, the BN expert advised me to buy LD06686399 diamond due to VVS2, cut proportions and angles.
Do you have any advice for me ? I will appreciate. What is now I'm considering are those diamonds (but please note, I am newbie in this topic and I can also reconsider those propositions - what I am looking for is round ideal cut diamond ~0.4-45ct up to 950USD (+23% VAT):

http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD05188504
http://www.bluenile.com/pl/diamond-details/LD06686399
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3633166.htm

Many thanks!
 

pfunk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
770
saymanek|1457451736|4001534 said:
And what about - it is bigger (0.46ct), has HCA 0.9,

https://www.ritani.com/diamonds/round-diamond-0-46-Carat-I-color-GIA-certified/D-F099J8

Here it is GIA certificate:
https://static.livechatinc.com/6701311/O3PQ874ZXW/db41917d406c34b91d344acdc1a09f09/D-F099J8.pdf

What do you think?

The BN has replied to me : "All of the diamonds do not have brown tones per the vault manager that inspected it for me. "
It is bigger, yes, but you always have to look at the dimensions as opposed to the weight. Remember, carat is simply a measure of how much the stone weighs, so ALWAYS look at the diameter measurements as well. This new diamond measures a little over 0.1mm larger in diameter, which I believe will be too hard for most eyes to even perceive. It is lower in color and clarity, which affects value, but I doubt either of those will be very noticeable either (H vs I in this size will likely look the same unless you have very good eyes and VVS vs VS will look the same to the naked eye). The proportions are a little safer on the bluenile diamond than they are on the ritani one, but either should be very pretty.

Is the Blue Nile stone even available anymore? It is coming up as unavailable when I look. Unfortunately it looks like most of my recommendations are no longer available.

To be honest, I am not sold on the Blue Nile signature ideal line. While some of them look really nice, there are others that can easily be found by searching inventory on your own. No doubt there are many stones available for purchase that would qualify as BN signature ideal, and those won't carry the premium. Having said that, the premium on BN sig ideal is not as high as other vendors premium cuts, but neither is the cut consistency (so I would expect the premium to be lower).

The whiteflash stone is going to be a beauty, and you have all the info to assure you of that. It is a good option if you want to spend a little more to know you're getting top shelf cut quality. My only reservation is that often AGS stones seem to benefit from a little softer color grading than GIA, so if you are really concerned about the I color that may be something to consider. I would ask Whiteflash to inspect the stone and comment on the color grade (is it a high I closer to an H, or a low I closer to a J). In this size, I'd be perfectly happy with an I color, but I still wouldn't want to pay for an I and get a J. It is subjective grading, but there are certainly trends and many feel GIA is a bit more strict when it comes to color.
 

saymanek

Rough_Rock
Joined
Mar 5, 2016
Messages
32
Many thanks for your comment!

Yes, those BN diamonds which I have chosen in the earlier post are reserved for me. Do you see the certificates of those diamonds?

The whiteflash is great, I've got all photos, but this diamond from ratani makes me think :) It is about 10% bigger :)

Ratani said, that tomorrow I will obtain the real photos of the stone.
You will be able to see the diamond magnified 20x face up as well as a 360 degree HD video magnified the same.

Would you be so kind, and give me your recommendation after receiving this image?
I feel that you are not so sure about this from ratani.

Regards!
 

pfunk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 2, 2014
Messages
770
Like I said, I don't think you will be able to see the size difference between the BN one I recommended and the Ritani stone. Yes, instruments capable of fine measurements show the size difference, but it is just too small for your eyes to be able to tell. If you were getting to the 0.5c mark or talking about a mm difference of 0.2mm or more then yes, it would be worth it. But the Ritani would not be my choice, all things considered.

If it is size you want, we can find you a diamond that DOES look bigger, but you might have to sacrifice elsewhere. If you are comfortable with I stones and SI clarity, I can look again for something with more size. I tend to avoid recommending doing that if you are ordering internationally and don't want to risk having to send a diamond back. That is why I recommended the one that I did. It will certainly be clean and will be quite white at that size and H color. The proportions are ideal and blue nile confirmed it does not have a brown tint. Sounds like a good stone to me.

I'd be happy to look at the Ritani image and give my thoughts. Is the BlueNile stone going to be on hold until then or are you risking losing it?
 
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