Diamond Fell Off of Engagement Ring

[NewbieDummy]

I purchased this 2 carat cushion cut diamond and pave setting from James Allen about 7 months ago. My (now) wife loves the ring but over the weekend the diamond fell out of the setting at a restaurant we were having dinner in. Luckily, my wife looks at her ring constantly and we noticed right away and found the diamond on the floor right away... phew.

I took a look at the setting and from what I can tell, it looks like it's in perfect condition. I'm trying to figure out why this diamond would fall out.

I called James Allen and told them the situation. I assumed everything would be covered under their lifetime warranty, especially since the ring is only 7 months old.

They said to ship it back to them at my cost ($160 insured via FedEx) and they may or may not charge me for the repair.

1) Is it unusual for diamonds to fall out like this? Should I be concerned that the stone was not mounted properly in the first place?

2) What can I do to more securly fasten the stone to the setting? Would adding a basket to the setting make the ring more secure?

Thanks.

 

[MissGotRocks]

Could have come loose for a thousand different reasons - sometimes stones just become loose in the setting from daily wear. I try to check my stone every day after I clean it just to make sure it's not spinning in the setting.

A six prong setting is sometimes thought to be more secure so that might be an option. Are the prongs done in platinum?

As for James Allen, I don't know that anyone can warranty a stone to be secure in a setting for any length of time due to the wearer's wear and tear on a ring. I hope that the stone is insured at any rate - would be a huge loss if it wasn't!

 

[MissGotRocks]

In looking at your previous post about purchasing this ring, it looks as though there was discussion about the setting and the prongs/basket. I would certainly seek the advice of JA or a professional as to what would be the best way to set this stone for its security.

 

[diamondseeker2006]

I agree with MissGotRocks and do hope that diamond is insured! I just wanted to say that it would cost you less to send it by registered mail and it would be more secure. FedEx will not insure jewelry of that high a value. So you'd be basically depending on your own insurance to cover it if it was lost while shipping Fed Ex (unless it is being shipped under James Allen's account since jewelers can have special insurance).

 

[GirlyGirl]

If the ring is insured, repairs should be covered. Is the warranty still good?

Keep us posted with how it goes.

 

[Laila619]

Switch to a 6 prong, it's more secure. Sorry that happened, but thank gosh you found it!!

 

[GreenBling]

with a cushion, perhaps double claw?

 

[Gypsy]

It shouldn't do that. I'd be ticked.

 

[Bosie]

This happened to my wife's ring about 2 years after the purchase. Somehow she sheared off the tips on the prongs, sent it back to where I got it and they repaired the entire head for no charge. James Allen should do same. In regards to shipping I would not use FedEx, I would use USPS, Registered, Insured, it is the safest, but slow way to get it done.

 

[Enerchi]

I would hope that JA would replace the head for you, free of charge, and as suggested, I'd go for either a 6 prong for the added security or a double claw prong.

Double claw would be awesome!

 

[allowingtoo]

I went with Double Claw Platinum when I had my head replaced on my ring and haven't regretted it once. I've had 4 prong Platinum, 6 prong Platinum and have lost tips, bent prongs and have had the diamond fall out. So far this has held up better than anything I have ever had on it.

 

[ame]

Uh, that's ridiculous. It doesn't look like you've worn this ring a lot, though we can't see that from these images...but I have a HUGE issue with you having to send this back on your dime, this soon, and that you might be charged for a repair on a fairly new item.

 

[VRBeauty]

From your original thread:

I was told that this would not be a recommended setting for this ring as the stone may be too big for the thin pave. They said they could do it but it would require modifying the setting.

Did they tell you at that time that using this setting anyway would affect the warranty?

If not, they should cover the repair IMO.

 

[Dreamer_D]

I would request a refund on your setting, at least partial, and get a new setting made that is constructed better. That type of head is really not good for large stones, and especially set high. The prongs are thin and without a cross support on the basket I think this type of thing is bound to happen. As Mike R likes to say, your setting needs a good foundation to support the diamond, and that means thicker prongs the higher its set, or at least a cross bar, and other structure built into the design. I think that particular setting with the teensy thin shank and the thin basket with no cross bar will always be a danger to losing the diamond.

 

[NewbieDummy]

JA is suggesting adding a basket to the setting. They're supposed to send me some CAD images of what this would look like and they expect this to cost a few hundred dollars.

Is a basket enough protection to secure the stone?

Thanks.

 

[distracts]

I honestly don't know, but a basket will stabilize the prongs so they won't move as much.

 

[TitanCi]

Wow, fortunately you two found the stone! I'd be pissed and I'm sure my fiance would be devastated if that happened to us!!! MAN!

 

[diamondseeker2006]

JA is suggesting adding a basket to the setting. They're supposed to send me some CAD images of what this would look like and they expect this to cost a few hundred dollars.

Is a basket enough protection to secure the stone?

Thanks.

A basket is good and double claw prongs would be nice if you were having a setting custom made. I just don't think that head was meant for a large rectangular cushion.

 

[2023]

That's terrible - what a horrible thing to experience. After 7 months you should not be having to pay anything (that seems unfair) and it looks like it just simply fell out. I had read some revies on yelp about JA about settings not being great and stones falling out etc on more than one review and one person commented they did not pay for shipping.

I know PS loves JA so I linked the reviews as its not my personal experience or opinion.

http://www.yelp.com.au/biz/james-allen-new-york-2

 

[Laila619]

I think a basket with double prongs would be a good idea. Then you are essentially getting 8 total prongs, and the basket cross bar will help add support.

 

[YoungPapa]

JA is suggesting adding a basket to the setting. They're supposed to send me some CAD images of what this would look like and they expect this to cost a few hundred dollars.

Is a basket enough protection to secure the stone?

Thanks.

Hi Newbie,

The answer to your question is absolutely, yes.

To add to some of the feedback you've received so far, I think it helps to have an understanding of the different types of prongs that are used in ring manufacturing and to examine the merits and shortcomings of each design.

The particular setting that you purchased from us earlier this year is designed to accommodate a die-struck head. Often called "peg-heads" or "drop-ins", these types of prongs are ubiquitous in the jewelry industry and probably the most common method of setting centers. Die-struck heads have many advantages. First, they are very strong and (generally speaking) do a great job of keeping a diamond in place. These types of heads are also relatively inexpensive, allowing more money to be spent on the diamond and/or ring design. Since the peg is manufactured separate from the ring, it also allows a wide range of diamond sizes and shapes to be set into the ring, as pegs are available in almost every conceivable size. Finally, pegs usually taper dramatically from top to bottom and have a small "footprint" at the base, allowing wedding bands to sit flush against the engagement ring.

For a customer purchasing a 1.00ct round or princess diamond, it's a great solution.

As diamonds get larger, however, these types of heads must be made taller. As this happens, they become more susceptible to movement at the top. A slight bang against a counter-top is much more likely to flex a prong holding a 2.00ct center than it is a diamond 1/2 or 1/3rd that size. Taller heads are also less aesthetically balanced (at least to us), and can be difficult to align properly on the corners of a diamond that isn't perfectly square or perfectly round. Most of the rings I've seen with crooked prongs are die-struck designs..

For these reasons, we don't recommend die-struck heads for larger diamonds, or diamonds that are less symmetrical in shape. Your diamond is both large (2ct) and slightly rectangular, which is probably the reason you were advised against this design by your rep at JA.

The alternative to a die-struck or peg is a basket. Baskets are not perfect solutions (and are sometimes die-struck themselves), but they do offer several key advantages. To begin, baskets are usually designed around the dimensions of your diamond. This helps to ensure a more proper fit and alignment of the prongs. Most baskets also feature a lateral support bar, providing strength near the tips and reducing flex. Because our baskets are designed in CAD and cast, we can also add curves or other design elements that allow the diamond to sit closer to the finger, better protected.

On the downside, baskets are more expensive - usually about 3x the price of die-struck. They also take longer to produce and as they don't taper as much at the bottom may prevent an engagement ring and wedding band from sitting flush. From a security standpoint, however, they are definitely much more appropriate for your diamond or any stone of that size/shape.

If all of that weren't enough, cushions have their own unique challenge. If a 2ct round is "bumped" and one of the prongs becomes a little loose, the diamond is just going to spin or jiggle. This would most likely be noticed long before the diamond cut through the tips of the prongs and fell completely off the ring. The same is true for a princess cut, pear, marquise, radiant, asscher, or emerald. With a cushion (and oval), if the diamond is allowed to spin even the smallest amount, the prongs might not have anything to "grip" and unfortunately (as has happened to you) the diamond can came completely out of the ring.

My bet is that had all of this information been presented to you at the time of purchase in the level of detail I've provided today, you probably would have opted for a basket in the first place. For that, I apologize. Moving forward, however, I'm hopeful that we can work together to find some solution that allows you to own and wear your beautiful cushion in confidence, and I'm already working behind the scenes to get you the best set of options available.

All the best,

 

[Enerchi]

Awesome info, JA! Thank you for that education - I appreciate learning those details. Thanks!

 

[YoungPapa]

That's terrible - what a horrible thing to experience. After 7 months you should not be having to pay anything (that seems unfair) and it looks like it just simply fell out. I had read some revies on yelp about JA about settings not being great and stones falling out etc on more than one review and one person commented they did not pay for shipping.

I know PS loves JA so I linked the reviews as its not my personal experience or opinion.

http://www.yelp.com.au/biz/james-allen-new-york-2

Hi 2023,

Yes, we have a few people who've written some pretty vicious stuff about us on Yelp. It's tough to read and reflects poorly on the company. Fortunately we have over 5,000 positive reviews elsewhere on the web. You sell tens of thousands of engagement rings and you're going to have some unhappy customers, regardless of what you do.

 

[2023]

Thats great all the information about prongs etc, but surely if a knowledgeable retailer is selling to a less knowledgeable consumer that retailer should not sell a product where the diamond could fall out. Especially if the knowledge is known already by the retailer, ie all the info on cushions, and larger sizes etc...this could have been easily avoided. A 2 ct diamond is a huge investment! Imagine if they hadn't found it or it hadn't been insured how terrible that would be for the consumer?

During an engagement/early marriage it's a bit heartbreaking to have to part with the ring so early to get it fixed, and minor problems are one thing, but a 2ct diamond falling out is pretty major!

I totally understand if you have 5000 happy people there may be some unhappy people, so if there are 5000 happy people to one unhappy customer, why not go out of your way for this one customer? Pay for the shipping costs and repair for example? Their knowledge is not in the same vicinity as a jeweller, despite what the SA said to them, they were still allowed to purchase an unsafe setting for a 2ct diamond.

 

[distracts]

2023, he was told it was not advised to go with that setting and did it anyway. What was JA supposed to do, refuse to sell the setting to him? Yes, he should have gotten a better explanation as to why that setting wasn't recommended. But to suggest that JA should have not "allowed" him to make a choice he wanted to make is really weird and condescending. Plenty of people make choices about their engagement rings that leave them less secure. Heck, I have three-sided pave. I would have been spitting mad if my jeweler hadn't let me walk out of the store with it. OP was told from the beginning that his setting may need a basket, and didn't end up getting one. Now he's having to pay to fix it, just like he'd have paid in the beginning to get his setting modified. I don't know why that strikes you as so unfair.

 

[Enerchi]

2023, he was told it was not advised to go with that setting and did it anyway. What was JA supposed to do, refuse to sell the setting to him? Yes, he should have gotten a better explanation as to why that setting wasn't recommended. But to suggest that JA should have not "allowed" him to make a choice he wanted to make is really weird and condescending. Plenty of people make choices about their engagement rings that leave them less secure. Heck, I have three-sided pave. I would have been spitting mad if my jeweler hadn't let me walk out of the store with it. OP was told from the beginning that his setting may need a basket, and didn't end up getting one. Now he's having to pay to fix it, just like he'd have paid in the beginning to get his setting modified. I don't know why that strikes you as so unfair.

I think I agree with Distracts on this. The OP was advised of the risks, made the choice to go for an alternate setting and now, unfortunately, needs to revise the design. Perhaps JA and OP could split the cost? Good faith on JA's part and OP contributes to the security and safety of the reset 2ct diamond. THat seems reasonable to me. Both would walk away compromising. (I'm all about compromise and mediation!)

 

[2023]

The OP spent 20/25k on a ring and if the knowledge was there to 'modify' the setting in advance it should have been done and consequently avoided. Distracts and Enerchi I do think he should not have been able to purchase an unstable 2ct diamond and yes, the setting should have been modified or another one suggested. Did the OP outright refuse to modify the setting? Was the OP against a basket? He never said that in his posts, I don't think he expected the diamond to fall out.

Also there are 1.5 carat cushions displayed on that website with that setting and another poster showed a 2 carat cushion with 2mm pave, no idea if that poster had a basket or not as it wasn't discussed
Is it not unacceptable for a 2 carat diamond to fall out of a 20-25k ring?

To be honest I would have thought that Newbiedummi probably wouldnt have blinked an eye if he had to pay extra at the beginning to have the diamond secured, but I could be wrong, if he outright refused or insisted thats different but from the sound of his last thread he sounds pretty relaxed and easy going and bought the diamond pretty fast...

 

[Dreamer_D]

Is it not unacceptable for a 2 carat diamond to fall out of a 20-25k ring?

To be clear, the 2ct diamond did not fall out of a $25k ring, the very expensive diamond fell out of a rather simple and inexpensive setting with a peg head.

This distinction matters because my feelings on this issue would be different if the mount had been made specifically for the OPs diamond and had cost considerably more. In the situation of custom there is certainly an expectation that for the money the setting will fit perfectly to the stone. In a case where a stock setting is purchased, there are limitations. The OP said that some of those limitations were mentioned up front. We don't know what was and was not said in that exchange. But with any setting there is NO GUARANTEE that a diamond will never fall out, and a diamond can fall out the day you buy it or 10 years down the road if wear and use or accident cause the loosening of the stone. That is why we buy personal insurance.

There is simply no way to know how manufacture affected this situation, versus wear and tear. And yes, even in seven months, a diamond can fall out from wear and tear. A knock to a prong is all it takes. It is scary and upsetting to think that this can happen. But it happens *all the time* with stock settings, and we have also seen it happen with custom mounts as well.

 

[yssie]

Thats great all the information about prongs etc, but surely if a knowledgeable retailer is selling to a less knowledgeable consumer that retailer should not sell a product where the diamond could fall out. Especially if the knowledge is known already by the retailer, ie all the info on cushions, and larger sizes etc...this could have been easily avoided. A 2 ct diamond is a huge investment! Imagine if they hadn't found it or it hadn't been insured how terrible that would be for the consumer?

Lots of "unsafe" settings out there, some of them very pricey - micropave, ultra dainty shanks, super delicate claw prongs...

I do think vendors - not just JA, all of them - have a responsibility to advise consumers about potential issues with their setting choices, but ultimately the choice should be the customer's.

 

[2023]

Dreamer, I agree as Yssie just said that settings such as pave setting and eternity bands can be prone to losing diamonds, but I did not think in a solitaire with a very expensive diamond that it would be common to fall out. It sounds like it was a cheap setting, and in cheap settings it must be more common? I understand as well that a 25k ring versus a 25k diamond in a cheap setting etc, but I just find a 2ct diamond falling out quite shocking, but that's just my opinion.

I haven't experienced or had any friends experience losing their diamond/diamonds on their engagement ring, and certainly not in 7 months, however, I did have a pair of 'limited edition' Bulgari sunglasses, and the diamontes would fall out. The sunglasses were retail $900 (though I paid half price). When a diamonte fell out they gave me a brand new pair, this happened three times (I think they would be relieved they were limited edition). After the second time it happened, they even gave me the option of selecting another pair of sunglasses of equal value from their store, but I liked the original pair so they ordered in a new pair from Italy and I had my third replacement, so i had three brand new pairs in a 2-3 year period. Now the sunglasses are old and forgotten, but despite having the diamontes fall out, I never was without sunglasses, and have to admit the customer service was amazing and I would likely by another pair of Bulgari sunglasses again. I know we are not talking about sunglasses, so maybe anyone who has had the experience of losing their engagement ring diamond or had their diamond fall out may have more relevant experience, I personally didn't think it was common and am surprised not more people are shocked by it!

Anyhow, just my 2cts, as this situation is for Newbiedummie to resolve.