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Diamond Differences

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diamante

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7
Hi, can someone help me? I recently purchased a loose diamond and setting. The diamond I purchased was a GIA certified .46 princess cut with an H color and a VS1 clarity. While the jeweler was setting the diamond, they claim that it broke. Since they do not have the same exact diamond with the same criteria, they are offering a .49 princess cut stone with F color and SI1clarity. I would like some opinions on the comparability and if this is an even, better or worse trade.
Thanks
 

diamante

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7
Hi all, my situation is becoming stranger by the day. I agreed to accept the replacement stone today because I need the ring before Christmas and so I made purchase. Three hours later the jeweler phoned and left a message that the same exact thing happened again. I was not home at the time to receive the message, but I called back and was informed that the new (replacement stone) cracked during the setting
.Now they are offering a G color si1 stone that looks horrible. Does anyone have any idea what type of situation I am legally? They keep offering me replacement stones, but I would like to select the stone closest to what I purchased in the beginning, because that is what I wanted. They keep making me feel like they are doing me a favor by replacing the stone for the same price. Could I get some input please?
Thanks
 

diamante

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7
I just wanted to add that they want me to pay the difference for a diamond of less quality, than the original i purchased. I do not think I should have to pay anything and they are responsible for replacing the stone with the closest they can find to the original
 

diamante

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7
The jeweler is sending me the replacement stone for inspection tomorrow. I will try and send it to Rockdoc for his opinion. I am not sure if I can get my hands on the broken stone, but I will try. Thanks once more for the info and I will keep you updated. BTW the girdle for the replacement stone is thin to very thick and the shape and cutting info says “rectangular modified brilliant”, which I assume is a fancy way of saying princess cut. There is also no fluorescence on either stone.
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,306
Face to face
Ask nicely for your money back (quietly)
if no
Ask loudly
still no
Shout and scream and raise Cain.
But make shaw the store is absolutely full of customers first (it is a few days before Xmas - boy do you have the upper hand)
Make it a game and have some fun.
Garry ( I am a retailer and I know what I would do).
 

lawmax

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
1,317
Wow, I can't believe this. I'm so sorry you are going through this. If I were in your shoes, I would try very strongly to get my money back asap. You *can* get another ring by Christmas.Call rockdoc-561-392-4054 for advice about your rights. He's not a lawyer and doesn't claim to be, but he does have a great deal of experience in this area, works as a mediator I believe, and is an expert witness for these types of cases.Good luck and feel free to send me an email if you think I can help in any way,lawmax
 

diamante

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7
Hi lawmax,
Thanks a lot for the advice. I am just not sure what to do in this situation. I am going to give rockdoc a call and see if I can sort this out.
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
I still have problems with converting your Fs to my Cs
but I guess 50 are still above freezing.It's going down right now and tomorrow will get icy roads.
 

RockDoc

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
2,509
DiamanteIt is hard to compare either diamond without all the information.
One of the essential bits of information for a princess cut is its crown height.While in the second stone you're receiving a better color, several grades higher, you're also receiving a lower clarity stone.We cannot compare the quality of the cutting from stone one to stone two, so it is impossible to say if you're getting into an even, better or worse situation.However an 84% table on a princess generally would indicate is has a very shallow crown height.How this affects the appearance of the stone isn't possible to conclude without seeing and testing it.You should find out the crown height and insist on a stone of around 10-13%rockdoc
http://www.accurateappraisal.com http://www.consumersgemlab.com
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Diamante, thanks for additional info.Based on these data my only concern would be whether new stone is eye-clean. Otherwise high color and a bit high weight could be ok.Again, it is difficult to tell without seeing the stone. Don't you have measurements for the old one? What about girdle?Hope the experts will share their opinion.
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Hi Diamante,Have you seen the new stone? Does it look good? Are you able to see inclusions with the naked eye because of the clarity decrease?Could you give a bit more info for more accurate comparison?
1. Does the new stone have GIA report too?
2. What about proportions - table, depth, crown and pavilion, girdle, culet, polish, symmetry?You might want to check the cut grade at www.gemappraisers.com Usually cut grading and comparison of fancies are more difficult. It is important to see the stone alive and make sure it looks good.
 

lawmax

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
1,317
Hi diamante,I am not an expert. Here's what I can see:You are getting better color, worse clarity, a bit more carat weight (probably not noticable to the eye).The question I have is what was the cut quality and therefor beauty of the original diamond vs. the diamond you are being offered?I'm sure the whiter color probably appealing. Is the SI1 truly eye-clean? In general there is a bigger jump in price with jumps in clarity than with changes in color.The cut is what makes a diamond more sparkly, brilliant and fiery. You have to use your own eyes to try to determine if you like the new stone.Check out www.consumersgemlab.com and www.accurateappraisal.com for more information on your jeweler's responsibility in this case.Good luck,lawmax
 

diamante

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7
wow you guys have been so great! i am trying to locate the rest of the information for the first stone. the jeweler emailead a copy of the certificate. it has no additional info other than the basics. the certificate info for the the first stone is from GCL.only the second stone is GIA. i am waiting for a response from the jeweler with more specs. thanks so much and i'll keep you updated.
 

pricescope

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
8,266
Lawmax - I was first this time
Seriously, your links to Rockdoc are good in this case.What are you doing down there? We have rain after a week of snowfall
Don't know how we are going to ski wit Garry in the New Year eve...
 

Garry H (Cut Nut)

Super_Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Aug 15, 2000
Messages
15,306
Sounds to me like the retailer is bending over backwards to make amends. (almost all princess cuts have thin girdles and chip easily - they also have big tables - so dont dispare)
If you want to be really sure - ask for the damaged stone and the replacement to be sent to Rockdoc for an independant opinion.
All sounds kosher to me though.
 

lawmax

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
1,317
Hi Leonid,It's crazy holiday time. Was out much of the morning, baked cookies with the kids, and then the whole family went to see the traveling company of the Radio City Music Hall Christmas Show out of New York. I went in NY every year as a child. It started out at 60 degrees this morning and got colder throughout the day (still in the 50's). We had this big wind blowing through since last night. It seems to have passed.Well, I can do without it, but I'll hope for snow for you skiers!
lawmax
 

diamante

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 16, 2000
Messages
7
Thanks so much for your replies. I have a little more info.
I do not have all of the stats for the first diamond, because the certificate is no longer available to view. I remember only the info that I posted previously and that the certificate number is 10510480. I have a little more info on the stone I am being offered. This purchase is being made online, so I have only been able to see photos. It is a very reputable online jeweler, I don’t think I can mention the name, but it is the first time that I have made a diamond purchase online. Second diamond info:
Shape: Princess Cut
Weight: 0.49
Color: F
Clarity: SI1
Cut: Good
Depth %: 73.8
Table %: 84
Culet: None
Polish: Good
Symmetry: Good
Measurements:
4.64 x 4.13 x 3.05
Length/Width Ratio: 1.12
Lab: GIA
Again thanks
 
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