Diamond Choices - Please Help

[jmill130]

Hi All,

I am new to the forum and in the market for an engagement ring. I am trying to have a budget around 15K, can go more slightly if the diamond is worth the extra $$. Would like to stay around that price. I would love to get around 1.8-2ct but it might be hard looking so far. I have been reading a lot of the articles and looking online at prices. There is so many variables to take into account, it really is hard to make a decision. I almost think the ideal method to buy would be to lay out a bunch of different diamonds and which one looks the best to the eye, forget about all the gradings for a minute and let the eye decide. I know the purpose of all these grading scales is to separate all the variations. However, this also makes it more confusing!

I think most people only buy so many diamond rings in their lifetime so its not like you get too much experience at buying, not like you are doing it often enough to get better at it.

What Ive Learned:

After reading many articles i have read time and time again that "Cut is King", and its underated because its hard to quantify and most buyers are more concerned in Carat size. I know about the 4c''s and all the websites to find great deals. It is still a bit overwhelming, plus its a lot of money!!

I am hoping some experts and more experienced diamond buyers can help me narrow my search.

Questions:

1. If cut is most important what is next, clarity or color?

2. Are there any good sites that have side my side closeups so your eyes can compare all the differences(then each individual could decided what factors are important to them and they their eyes see as "clean" . Buying over the internet is difficult because you are soley basing your decision on the facts presented by the website and or gem lab. If i could compare diamonds side by side and get a better looking diamond that has a lower rating then i would. The internet is where the deals are at but you cant easily physically see multiple stones at once...

3. What is the best site with a good return policy, anyone know WF return policy?? I couldnt find it in the FAQ section..

4. Is there a "very" noticeable difference between an ideal cut and excellent? How much more fire does one have over the other going to produce?? If all other variables are equal, what is everyones opinion?? Can the majority of people really see this difference?

5. Why is it that the selection of rings just under 2ct(1.98-1.99) is slim? Are diamond companies not releasing as many of these or trying not to cut them in this range??

6. How long does it take searching and looking to find a what you want? How long are most buyers spending on these sites searching and comparing??


Rings

what about this ring:

Item Code: 12255452

. Report: GIA
. Shape: Round
. Carat: 2.00
. Depth %: 62.6
. Table %: 57
. Girdle: MED-STK
. Measurements: 8.02-8.07X5.04
. Polish: Excellent
. Symmetry: Excellent
. Culet: None
. Fluorescence: None


Any help is greatly appreciated, i really want to make the right choice in buying a ring, size is important but i think the overall fire and look is just as important. I just want the best deal for my money and really want to surprise my future wife with something really great but within my price range. I hate to spend this much money and find out i could have got a better deal or stone if i had more info.

 

[Regular Guy]

Jmill,

Welcome.

Color is sort of next important...and maybe the only thing seen on a sliding scale, along with carat...next to cut & clarity...where you only want a cut that's good (but that will have variables, too), and with clarity...most people don't want to see an inclusion...and so, that becomes a yes or no, too.

To compare options...the search by cut db...seen above under prices...also here...sort of does what you're asking.

Looking there for what you're looking for, constraining VS1 - SI2, and F - H...everything that comes up in your desired size is from James Allen. You might want to consult with them.

If this is eye clean...you could be done.

 

[dimonbob]

I just checked the GIA cert on that one and with a 36% crown angle and a 41.2 pavilion I think I would pass on it. The HCA on it is 5.3. Not exactly a lot of bling!

Cut is king if you want a beautiful diamond. Weight is king to those that have to have a "big" rock.

 

[JohnQuixote]

Welcome to PS Jmill. It sounds like you are on the right track. Here are a few thoughts:

Date: 11/23/2007 1:48:13 PM
Author:jmill130

Questions:

1. If cut is most important what is next, clarity or color?

It depends on personal beliefs, taste and perception. Most people cannot detect the difference in a color grade or two. Others are very color sensitive. Some prefer the icy white of a colorless diamond while others prefer the warmth of a well-cut near-colorless stone. Regarding clarity, anything above SI (when graded by a strict lab) is likely to appear completely clean to the naked eye face-up. In fact, there are many such 'eye-clean' SI stones but you have to do some research to select there. Again here, some people are more sensitive than others: A young person with eagle eyes might even detect inclusions in a VS2 stone - whereas some older and less perceptive folks may not see anything even in a good number of SI and even I1 stones. Most people fall in-between. A preference for high color and clarity may also be a cultural thing. We have many clients in Asia who stay with VVS+ and colorless grades as a 'mind clean' thing. I would also say that cut perception varies in people. Most people will love any firecracker of a diamond - some people will be able to detect more of quality A versus quality B (color in the fire, size of chromatic flares, balance of qualities, etc), but much of that is nuance once you have a great performing diamond.

2. Are there any good sites that have side my side closeups so your eyes can compare all the differences(then each individual could decided what factors are important to them and they their eyes see as 'clean' . Buying over the internet is difficult because you are soley basing your decision on the facts presented by the website and or gem lab. If i could compare diamonds side by side and get a better looking diamond that has a lower rating then i would. The internet is where the deals are at but you cant easily physically see multiple stones at once...

The only way to make decisive color, clarity and performance comparisons is live. If you've ever shopped for a digital camera and photographed the same person with a Canon, a Sony and a Pentax you know that three photos of the same person in the same environment can look much different than each other. Photos and videos are useful for getting overall impressions but not for subtle decision making. The human eye also "sees" things differently than the camera does, even before different manufacturers, backgrounds, lighting, etc. come into play.

3. What is the best site with a good return policy, anyone know WF return policy?? I couldnt find it in the FAQ section..

I think you'll find all of the PS sellers have good examination/return periods. Here are our policies.

4. Is there a 'very' noticeable difference between an ideal cut and excellent? How much more fire does one have over the other going to produce?? If all other variables are equal, what is everyones opinion?? Can the majority of people really see this difference?

If we're talking round brilliants the diamond's grade depends on the lab's system of measure. AGS Ideal is a top cut grade and the majority of these combinations are optimal performers. The GIA Excellent cut grade is much less strict, but many diamonds that earn GIA EX could also be AGS Ideal if sent to AGS. To the heart of your question - yes there are visible differences within the top grades. Sometimes they are equally attractive and just matters of taste, but there are stones at the borders of the top cut grades which we may have less desirable qualities. For example, the steep/deep end of GIA EX allows some combos that should be avoided. There are other examples - if you have specific candidates you can post them here and the PS enthusiasts and pros will comment.

5. Why is it that the selection of rings just under 2ct(1.98-1.99) is slim? Are diamond companies not releasing as many of these or trying not to cut them in this range??

Commercially important weights drive decision-making with mass manufacture. Rough planning is very sophisticated, down to the last decimal. The majority of 2.00 and 2.01 carat diamonds you'll ever find were finished just as planned. Demand drives these decisions too. Demand for 'superideal' top cut rounds is not as high as it is for commercial makes. Therefore you will find well-cut diamonds just under commercially important weights (1.00, 1.50, 2.00 etc) in short supply. Why? Because a piece of rough that would finish as a 1.97 ct superduper Tolkowksy H&A stone will often be sent to a commercial cutting floor where it will finish as a 2.00 carat diamond of somewhat lesser precision. That allows the manufacturer to 'save' the critical 2.00 ct mark that brings the best price in many markets.

That is not to say that 2.00 and 2.01 ct diamonds are all of this ilk - as mentioned, cutters plan these things with great sophistication. A 2.00 carat super-ducky H&A toppo boffo diamond also finished up exactly as planned.

6. How long does it take searching and looking to find a what you want? How long are most buyers spending on these sites searching and comparing??

For larger sizes it can take longer. Large rough is becoming increasingly rare. It is nearly impossible to find premium cut stones 3ct+ these days. It also depends on how detail-oriented you are as a buyer. Believe me, the more layers of this you strip away the more reveal themselves.

 

[Skippy123]

Use this tool to search and chose excellent excellent https://www.pricescope.com/sift.aspx

Here is this one http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3154/ and it is w/in your budget.

and this one too but it is 1.74 carats. http://www.goodoldgold.com/diamond/3810/

 

[jmill130]

Thanks everyone for the advice and information. I am still searching. Its too bad JamesAllen is in MD and so i am I. I will have to pay tax. I am hoping maybe i can go to Frederick, MD and take a look at diamonds in person. I think seeing all the different diamonds will help me and justify each variable accordingly.

Here is a another stone for review by the experts:

http://www.jamesallen.com/products/item_58-874_build.asp?cid=58&module=diamond&item=1115077

again, thanks for everyones help, glad i found this site

 

[Regular Guy]

Jmill,

Based on that stone being an SI1...there''s a good likelihood it will be more eye clean than the one I found. The proportions do look favorable. And...since he can do this...and spotters here like to give advice based on them...you might request an idealscope image for that one, for additional advice.

Overall, your concept of going and comparing, physically, gives you some hope of accomplishing the best of both worlds. It''s what I did. (with him, too).

But...it DOES say it''s no longer available. Hopefully...that''s because YOU put it on hold.

Jim will ship to DC & VA, for you to drive over to get the diamond...if you can arrange this. Also, there are appraisers in both DC & VA that could receive the diamond for you...especially if they will provide you an appraisal service associated with the receipt...just another way to work the tax.

 

[jmill130]

I am going to meet Jim from JamesAllen and look at 3 stones, what do the experts out there think of these 3 picks:

http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?find=1&cid=130&item=1018732
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?find=1&cid=130&item=1115077
http://www.jamesallen.com/diamond.asp?find=1&cid=130&item=1086829

 

[Lorelei]

Not an expert, just a consumer, but my pick would be for the first or second diamond - ask the good chaps at James Allen regarding eyecleanliness.

 

[sabrina1]

I think Blue Nile is also in Md if you want to check out there supply

-Sabrina

 

[jmill130]

Regular Guy,

did Jim charge you any fees to look at the stones prior to buying. Or because you purchased a stone he did not charge you?