Diamond back from GIA, no fracture fill, NOW what?

[Leanne]

Hi all. Well, I got my diamond back from my jeweler today. The GIA report is pretty much the same as the IGI. Stone is I1, color I (IGI said it was an H) and there was no mention of any type of clarity enhancement or fracture filling. My ex-jeweler now says that he didn''t know if the GIA could tell if a diamond has been fracture filled or clarity enhanced. Before he sent it he told me that the GIA would definitely get to the bottom of the mystery of why my diamond turned milky white while being re-set at his shop. Another very strange thing, the measurements on my diamond are larger on the GIA report than they are on the IGI report even though the jeweler admited that they polished off 6 points. The IGI report says it was a weight of 1.82, GIA says it''s 1.75. I''m confused!

 

[TKC]

Date: 7/20/2005 1:31:33 AM
Author:Leanne
Hi all. Well, I got my diamond back from my jeweler today. The GIA report is pretty much the same as the IGI. Stone is I1, color I (IGI said it was an H) and there was no mention of any type of clarity enhancement or fracture filling. My ex-jeweler now says that he didn''t know if the GIA could tell if a diamond has been fracture filled or clarity enhanced. Before he sent it he told me that the GIA would definitely get to the bottom of the mystery of why my diamond turned milky white while being re-set at his shop. Another very strange thing, the measurements on my diamond are larger on the GIA report than they are on the IGI report even though the jeweler admited that they polished off 6 points. The IGI report says it was a weight of 1.82, GIA says it''s 1.75. I''m confused!

Hi Leanne, how do you know that the diamond he showed or you got was the diamond on the lab. report? He always has a chance to switch your diamond unless you sent the diamond to the GIA lab. by yourself and you are the first hand to receive the diamond from the GIA lab. It is almost impossible that the weight is 6 pointers different between two labs on the same diamond. Usually, the maximum different weight is about 2 pointers.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 7/20/2005 1:31:33 AM
Author:Leanne
Hi all. Well, I got my diamond back from my jeweler today. The GIA report is pretty much the same as the IGI. Stone is I1, color I (IGI said it was an H) and there was no mention of any type of clarity enhancement or fracture filling. My ex-jeweler now says that he didn't know if the GIA could tell if a diamond has been fracture filled or clarity enhanced. Before he sent it he told me that the GIA would definitely get to the bottom of the mystery of why my diamond turned milky white while being re-set at his shop. Another very strange thing, the measurements on my diamond are larger on the GIA report than they are on the IGI report even though the jeweler admited that they polished off 6 points. The IGI report says it was a weight of 1.82, GIA says it's 1.75. I'm confused!

From what I understand, your stone was a 1.82 IGI H I1 which lost 6 points in the repolishing, and was graded as a 1.75 GIA I I1, with differing diameter measurements.

First, the comparison between IGI H I1 and GIA I I1 looks perfectly normal and reasonable. Second, the 6 point difference quoted by the jeweler and the 5 point difference shown between the labs also seems reasonable. You're really only talking about a 1 point disparity, which could be explained by any number of reasons.

Third, diameter measurements usually differ slightly between one machine and another because of calibration differences. You're dealing with such small measurements that it's almost impossible to get the exact same measurements between two different instruments operated by two different humans.

Fourth, GIA can easily determine if a diamond is or was fracture filled or clarity enhanced in any way. If they don't mention it, it isn't and never was.

By the process of elimination, it would seem the most likely conclusion is that your diamond was burned during the bench session.

Did the jeweler pay for the repolishing? Anything else?

 

[fire&ice]

Date: 7/20/2005 7:50:02 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 7/20/2005 1:31:33 AM
Author:Leanne

Fourth, GIA can easily determine if a diamond is or was fracture filled or clarity enhanced in any way. If they don't mention it, it isn't and never was.

By the process of elimination, it would seem the most likely conclusion is that your diamond was burned during the bench session.

Did the jeweler pay for the repolishing? Anything else?

Wouldn't the jeweler have some liablity with the loss of points? Wouldn't they be responsible for the repolish cost?

And, Rich would know better - but I've heard GIA can easily determine if a diamond was fracture filled. I've heard that GIA makes that determination when a jeweler can't.

Something is rotten in Denmark. Leanne - didn't the jeweler originally WANT to send the stone to GIA *because* they could make that determination about the fracture filled?

 

[MissAva]

I think now you go and confront your jewler and ask him to replace your stone with one to your sliking that is of at least the quality and size yours was prior to this all starting. Something is not right here and you should not be the one left holding the burden.

 

[denverappraiser]

Leanne,

GIA can easily tell if a stone is now or ever has been filled. Any cutter who is working on a stone can do the same.

I know of no cutters that can make a stone larger through their work but this would be a very valuable trick if they could do it. If the difference is tiny then I would write it of to differences in the measuring tools as Rich suggests. If it's more than say 0.2mm different on any of the main dimensions I would strongly suspect that you have a different stone. This may not be a bad thing, but it's crazy that they would replace the stone without discussing the issues with you.

Both lab reports should have a plotting diagram of the inclulsions in the stone and even with a 0.06ct recut they should be fairly similar. Whatever the grade setting inclusion is that makes it an I-1 will still be there and it should be on both diagrams.

Just to be sure, GIA lab reports are titled 'DIAMOND QUALITY REPORT' and the company is identified as 'GIA Gem Trade Laboratory'. Is what you have a genuine GIA report ot the work of a GIA graduate gemologist working for some other company?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Date: 7/20/2005 11:08:19 AM
Author: fire&ice

Wouldn't the jeweler have some liablity with the loss of points? Wouldn't they be responsible for the repolish cost?
[/quote]

The aspects for which the client would be made whole are:

Cost of shipping to-&-fro paid for or reimbursed by jeweler
Cost of recutting paid for or reimbursed
Loss of value from 6 point diminishment paid for
Cost of GIA report paid for or reimbursed

A "user friendly" jeweler would usually cover these costs if the damage were due to his negligence.

I say "usually" because sometimes jewelers consider all work to be done at the client's risk. More often though, they're interested in keeping the client happy by making them whole.

I don't feel a new stone is warranted, as long as the recut stone is the same as the original, which it most likely is.

These things happen. If your jeweler is taking care of all or most the above costs, then he is being reasonable, in my opinion.

 

[Leanne]

Yes, my jeweler (ex jeweler) said that beyond a doubt the GIA could determine whether or not Zales sold me an undisclosed fracture filled diamond & suggested that I have it sent to the GIA! Good catch!

 

[Leanne]

Date: 7/20/2005 11:30:10 AM
Author: denverappraiser
Leanne,

GIA can easily tell if a stone is now or ever has been filled. Any cutter who is working on a stone can do the same.

I know of no cutters that can make a stone larger through their work but this would be a very valuable trick if they could do it. If the difference is tiny then I would write it of to differences in the measuring tools as Rich suggests. If it''s more than say 0.2mm different on any of the main dimensions I would strongly suspect that you have a different stone. This may not be a bad thing, but it''s crazy that they would replace the stone without discussing the issues with you.

Both lab reports should have a plotting diagram of the inclulsions in the stone and even with a 0.06ct recut they should be fairly similar. Whatever the grade setting inclusion is that makes it an I-1 will still be there and it should be on both diagrams.

Just to be sure, GIA lab reports are titled ''DIAMOND QUALITY REPORT'' and the company is identified as ''GIA Gem Trade Laboratory''. Is what you have a genuine GIA report ot the work of a GIA graduate gemologist working for some other company?

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

Neil-
My thoughts are these, the IGI graded my diamond while it was in a platinum 4 prong tiffany setting, GIA of course graded it naked. I believe I have a genuine GIA Report. When I have access to my scanner I will scan & post both reports. For now, I will give you the dimensions to see if you can get an opinion as to if it''s the same stone. I believe it is because the plots are similar & I can see the inclusions under magnification & they appear to be the same also.

IGI dated 5/23/2002- Measurements Approx. 7.55-7.60 x 4.78 MM. Estimated weight 1.82 carat, Depth 63.1%, Table 55%, Girdle Medium to Thick, Faceted
GIA dated 7/8/2005- Measurements 7.63 - 7.70 x 4.86 Weight 1.75 carat, Depth 63.4%, Table 56%, Girdle Very Thin To Medium, Faceted

 

[Leanne]

Date: 7/20/2005 5:53:12 PM
Author: Richard Sherwood

Date: 7/20/2005 11:08:19 AM
Author: fire&ice

Wouldn''t the jeweler have some liablity with the loss of points? Wouldn''t they be responsible for the repolish cost?

The aspects for which the client would be made whole are:

Cost of shipping to-&-fro paid for or reimbursed by jeweler
Cost of recutting paid for or reimbursed
Loss of value from 6 point diminishment paid for
Cost of GIA report paid for or reimbursed

A ''user friendly'' jeweler would usually cover these costs if the damage were due to his negligence.

I say ''usually'' because sometimes jewelers consider all work to be done at the client''s risk. More often though, they''re interested in keeping the client happy by making them whole.

I don''t feel a new stone is warranted, as long as the recut stone is the same as the original, which it most likely is.

These things happen. If your jeweler is taking care of all or most the above costs, then he is being reasonable, in my opinion.



[/quote]The jeweler paid for the cost of everything, shipping, re polishing (that''s what he said was done) & the GIA Report which he gave to me. The only thing I''m not happy about is that he''s not claiming responsibility for what happened to my diamond. He even said that we still don''t know that Zales didn''t sell me a fracture filled diamond. That''s when I called him on the carpet about his emphatically stating earlier that the GIA could tell, hands down if it had been! I have asked for no compensation for the weight loss & have decided to not do business with the Riddle''s Jewelry or Ridco stores in the future. They are also losing about 12 other customers who are friends & relatives of ours. I''m also going to write to the president & vice president of the company to let them know what has happened.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

What a difference accepting responsibility and issuing an apology would make in his case. That's all you're really looking for.

Why is that so hard for people to do?

 

[diamondlil]

Date: 7/21/2005 8:19:31 AM
Author: Richard Sherwood
What a difference accepting responsibility and issuing an apology would make in his case. That''s all you''re really looking for.

Why is that so hard for people to do?

Maybe because society today is so law-suit crazy. He''d probably say anthing to avoid the possibility of legal action.

 

[denverappraiser]

I think you’re right.

IGI examined the stone mounted and approximated everything. I also think their estimated weight was probably a little high to begin with which means that the real weight loss on the repolish was less than 0.06. The jeweler resolved this in a more-or-less reasonable way but I’m with Rich, an apology for the screwup and being more forthcoming with the facts would have gone a long way to keeping their customers. This is basic customer service training on how to handle problems. Frankly, this surprises me. Riddles is a pretty well regarded store.

Neil Beaty
GG(GIA) ISA NAJA
Independent Appraisals in Denver

 

[strmrdr]

Something else to consider is it in the same cut class as it was before.
In this case it looks like it is but if it wasnt it could have a huge impact on the value if it went down in cut quality.

It just sucks they wont just say sorry, they allready admitted liability by fixing it on their dime.
The could issue a written appology and it wouldnt implicate them more than they are.

 

[pyramid]

Leanne. I am a consumer but I was just wondering is the jeweller you dealt with a jeweller, gemmologist, bench person or just the salesperson/manager. There is a third person in this the benchperson who worked on your ring, maybe he knows he burned it but will not admit it to the jeweller who is maybe none the wiser about what a burned diamond looks like.

Good customer service would be an apology but then maybe the jeweller still thinks if was not burned. Would an apology be any use if it was a lie. If it was my diamond I would not know what to think but I would rather believe GIA who found no sign of fracture filling. In an I1 stone I would think the GIA people would know if it was fracture filled or not when they began inspecting the clarity of the stone. What do the appraiser here think if you were appraising an I1 diamond would you notice the fracture filling or could you miss it?

 

[Leanne]

The man I''m dealing with is the Manager of the Rapid City Riddle''s & is a graduate gemologist. He knows his stuff. He has been great to deal with up until now. I just got off the phone with my husband & he told me that he called Riddle''s yesterday & the manager told him that he could get us another 1.82 diamond to replace mine but it might not be as eye clean. He said I have a very nice I1 & contributes this partly to his new polish job. LOL! Any way, I agree with Neil about IGI''s weight report, could be that it never really was a 1.82. I still love my diamond, it''s beautiful. Right now my plan is to send my jeweler all these pricescope posts. I''m also going to send them to the owners of Riddle''s Jewelry. As long as Riddle''s keeps the bench jeweler that burned my diamond on as an employee, wewill not do business with them. I still haven''t decided if I''ll use the Cheyenne branch or not. I have gotten an apology from the manager of Riddle''s but he still says that his bench jeweler did NOTHING to cause my diamond to turn white.