Diamond advice

[thenewguy23]

Hello everyone,

As my name suggests, I am new to the diamond buying adventure. I''ve done some research over the last month or so (including reading many of the interesting posts here) and finally feel (ready?) to venture into the world of diamond buying.

I''ve looked at a few diamonds at jewelry stores and I came across this diamond from an online dealer with the following stats:

Carat: .92
Color: E
Clarity: VS2

Total Depth: 60.8
Crown Angle: 34.7
Crown Height 15.0
Pavil Angle: 40.8
pavil Depth: 42.8
Cutlet: 0.5 (v. small)
Table: 56
Girdle Thickness (1.5% (medium)

No Flourescence
Excellent Symmetry and Polish (GIA cert July 02)
$5,200

I was psyched! ...until I saw the photos. I am very grateful to the vendor for going through the trouble of taking these pictures (you probably can guess who it is), and he gained a measure of trust in my book by doing so. In any event, I feel that the VS2 rating is closer to an SI1. Are there any cutters / experts out there who can offer me their opinion? Am I overreacting? Is there no way that I would see these inclusions with the naked eye? Or is it just a matter of cost (ie. that''s why this diamond is 5K instead of 6K)?

Here are the photos:

Your assistance is greatly appreciated!

 

[adamasgem]

VS2 appears to be a good call on this stone. Don't forget, the picures appear to be taken at greater than 10X, and the darkfield illumination used makes the contrast better so that you are able to see the inclusion. SI1 would probably be too harsh a call on this stone. The inclusion appears less than 0.5mm long, with low relief.
With no fluorescence, there shouldn't be a problem with overgrading of color.

 

[Richard Sherwood]

Yeah, that looks like one of those "razor's edge" feathers that virtually disappear when you turn off the darkfield illumination.

Hey Marty, nice to see you around.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hi New Guy!

Dittos to the pros.

I have an A Cut Above from White Flash with a feather in it. Brian Gavin discussed it with me over the phone and offered to send pics via email in advance of shipping. He warned me that due to the magnification he would have to use, the feather would look monstrous in the photos and probably scare me to death. I didn't want to be prejudiced against the diamond so I declined the pics. The feather is exactly as he described over the phone and I'm glad I didn't see the magnified pics. I would have worried needlessly. Because of the great CUT and the position of the feather inside the diamond, no one can see it.

You posted some great pics. The vendor is making sure buyers are totally aware of the diamond's characteristics. If it weren't for the red markers, I wouldn't have seen the feather in a couple of the pics.

 

[thenewguy23]

Thank you for replying to my post so quickly adamasgem, Richard Sherwood and pqcollectibles(and on a holiday weekend nonetheless!).

After a day stewing about the gem and hearing your opinions, I must say that I feel much better about the inclusions. The pictures made me feel worse in the short term, but better in the long term because of the trust issue.

I suppose the only way to really know is to get the rock in my hands and take it to an independant. I recognize that the best idea is to take it to a GIA certified appraiser who doesn't sell gems. Is there anything else I should know before choosing an appraiser?

Thank you for your assistance.

thenewguy23

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 5/23/2003 4:52:59 PM adamasgem wrote:

----------------

Wow! I hope the heavy hitters are here to stay on PS.

Welcome Mr. Haske.

 

[pqcollectibles]

There is a PS list of appraisers with great credentials. Click on the link at the top of the page.

Your thread had responses from 2 very respected appaisers already.

If you want to have the diamond evaluated prior to actually paying, contact the vendor and see who they will ship direct to without payment up front. Compare the vendor's list to the PS list. More than likely, you will see several, if not all are on both lists. Then you just choose from there.

 

[Giangi]

That's niceice, right?

No problems with that feather... I don't think you'll see with your naked eye and also keep in mind that the pic is greatly enlarged... Also, I agree with Rich... It looks like one of those inclusions that virtually disappear when yoiu turn off darkfield... You won't see kaka

.

 

[Mara]

I second, third, and fourth all the others. If you look at the first two pictures you posted, even under the magnification (which looks possibly more than 10x?), I would be hard pressed to find that feather without the big red arrows pointing it out. Under darkfield, yes things show up very clearly, but that isn't real life viewing. Under 40x viewing, of course you're going to see it. But your eyes don't even see 10x.

Also if it's GIA or AGS graded VS2, they are pretty strict..not like some of the other labs. I would worry more if you said it was VS2 graded IGI or similar.

Best of luck and from what I have read and heard...NiceIce is tops, so you are in good hands. Did you ask them what their thoughts are? Since they have the stone inhouse, I am sure R/T would give you their honest opinion on the eye-cleanliness of the stone. If they worry, then think about it. But if they assure you it's eye clean..I'd be inclined to trust them.

Congrats and GOOD EYE!!!

 

[Spyder]

The feather is in line with the other lines of the diamond, so it fits right in. If it were angled 90 degress differently, then it might stick out more. But as it is, even if it were visible it tends to blend right in with the other lines.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Ewwww, Spyder!!! Very Good Point!!!

The feather lies in line with a facet cut. That makes all the difference in the world. It won't impact the refractive properties one bit!

Turn it 90 degrees and you've got a whole different story.

 

[aljdewey]

Another voice of support for this diamond and the responses given so far.

As pointed out, diamonds are graded under 10x mag, so this is properly graded as VS2. You'll never see this with the naked eye.

NiceIce is also top-shelf to deal with, and they have given tons of info up front about the stone. You can't do better; they are one of the most respected vendors here.

Good luck!

 

[thenewguy23]

Thank you very much everyone for your great responses. This forum has certainly taken a lot of the guesswork of buying a diamond online and I respect the manner in which you all have gone about it.

As some of you have guessed, this is a niceice diamond. Todd and Robin have been very helpful thusfar - and they are obviously well liked here.

On to the appraisal round!

I let you know how everything turns out.

thenewguy23

 

[bd1099]

I've been looking for a stone for quite some time now and I found some really low prices at dirtcheapdiamonds.com

The name sounds a bit shady, but they've been rated really high. I typed in your stone's specs to see what prices they had, and it came up with the following in their Ideal cut category with GIA cert.

Item Carat Color Clarity Lab Cash Price Depth Table Polish Sym Flr Measurements
1607329 0.92 E VS2 GIA $4,413 61.7 56 GD GD None 6.22x6.3x3.86
1657141 0.92 E VS2 GIA $4,720 62.4 58 GD GD None 6.17x6.26x3.88
1379343 0.92 E VS2 GIA $4,814 61.5 59 VG VG None 6.20x6.23x3.82
1385857 0.92 E VS2 GIA $4,814 61.5 59 VG VG None 6.20x6.23x3.82

I was going to get my stone locally so I can see it in person, but I never considered asking for photos. However, after seeing your post, I'm going to see if they will send me an image or two of the stone I like.

Good luck searching.

- Brad

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Brad,

You also need to get the crown and pavilion angles to make an accurate assessment of the stones you have listed. These numbers help for making calculations on the HCA (see "cut advisor" link at top of page) . . . also, note that the above stone, by the original poster also has Excellent polish and symmetry so you're not really comparing stones that are exactly the same. These characteristics can partially explain the price differences.

Good luck,
Michelle

 

[thenewguy23]

Hi all,

Once again, I would like to thank everyone who responded to my original inquiries. This forum definately provided me some guidance as I attempted to weave through the complicated diamond buying process.

Just to update you all, I sent the stone to an independent appraiser who was very helpful and verified the stats on the diamond. I bought the stone and I am very pleased with it. It sparkles just like I had envisioned (hoped) it would.

In the spirit of this forum, I would like to share my experiences and opinions to potential diamond buyers on several fronts:

1) Research/Information. Information is your best weapon. I encourage anyone buying a diamond to do lots and lots of research on the 4 c's, with extra emphasis on "cut." Give yourself plenty of time. I would say 1-2 months of research is minimum. DON'T GET DISCOURAGED OR BE AFRAID TO ASK QUESTIONS. Cut is where your comfort level will be hardest to attain and perhaps the most important of the 4 c's.

2) Niceice.com. I purchased my diamond from niceice. They were extremely generous with information, which, as I have mentioned, was of high importance to me. They were friendly and helpful...right up until I attempted to negotiate price. Their attitude toward me from then on can be best described as "cold." If you read this thread http://pricescope.com/idealbb/view.asp?topicID=4941&forumID=3&catID=&search=1&searchstring=&sessionID={3C144FA0-2123-41F3-A0CC-9756AD2856E9} you will probably see for yourself from their own words that they are touchy about price negotiations - "The public is getting way out of hand the way they shop for price, they think that everything should be free." Not a great attitude, in my opinion. Nonetheless, I do feel that they sold me a great diamond at a great price, and were willing to send the diamond to an independent first, no questions asked.

3) Price. Because no 2 diamonds are the same, it is virtually impossible to really know if you got the "best" price or not. Buying a diamond is not the same as buying a car - where you just have to find the dealership willing to sell it to you closest to cost. THERE ARE NO WHOLESALERS WHO SELL TO THE GENERAL PUBLIC. As frustrating as this might be for the online generation, every retailer will mark up the price and will not tell you how much. Want to buy over the internet from someone who has little costs and little markup? Then you will get little service and likely more risk. Want to buy from a reputable B&M who will spend lots of time with you and sells great diamonds that you can see and touch and compare? Then you will pay for it. I chose the internet route with a online retailer who took time to give me the information that I felt was important. Research yourself to decide which information is most important to you and don't buy from anyone who won't provide it.

4) Appraiser. The bottom line is that 2 months from now, you don't want to wake up one day from a cold sweat feeling like you didn't get what you paid for. Paying for an independant appraisal BEFORE purchasing may be the best $100 (or so) you'll ever spend.

That's my 2 cents.

Thank you again everyone on this forum for your wonderful input and good luck to diamond buyers!


thenewguy

 

[Hest88]

Darryl, thanks for much for sharing your experiences. I'm sure they'll be helpful for other newbies to come!

 

[Mara]

Congrats on the new stone purchase Daryl!

I feel that while for the most part, online vendors price their stones lower than B&M, it does not meant that the average consumer cannot try to at least get the best deal possible to satisfy their need to know they tried. If done with respect and by being courteous (e.g. is there anything you can do to bring this price down), I don't see why the attitude from vendors should be negative.
I would kick myself if I never asked about pricing or negotiations, even if I am sure I will get turned down...because you never know what MAY have happened had you asked (e.g. even $100 is $100 off!). In fact, if I was working with someone & was respectful and courteous & in turn felt as though the relationship had denigrated just because of my asking; I'd question my transaction with that vendor. No one likes to feel as though you are walking on eggshells--esp if you are building a relationship for the future.

My two cents. Post pictures of the stone when you get it, I am sure it will be tops!

 

[Heyjud]

When it comes to magnification
Many of us can attest

When a mirror shows us 10 times our size
We do not look our best!

The same can be said for a diamond
Without a loope in your eye

Those tiny flaws cannot be seen
Even if you try!!!

 

[pqcollectibles]

Sooooooo glad you are thrilled Darryl! Post eye candy for all of us to enjoy as soon as you can!