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Jax172

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
948
Some of you may know the ongoing upgrade saga...some may not, either way, I''d appreciate advice.

Anyways...my fiance and I recently uprgaded to a 1.04 F VS1 H & A with 3 very highs in the Bscope.

We''ve recently decided we were not happy with certain particulars about the ring and the purchase experience (No need to go through any of this again...we''re quite happy the way things are going now.)

So we decided to return the ring and get a new diamond and a better experience. We''ve asked for a diamond in the 1.2 - 1.3 range in and F color and VS2 or better clarity.

So the question. Would you buy a diamond that gets only 2 Very Highs and 1 High on the Bscope? We''ve found one that is in our range, but it only gets 2 Very HIghs. Would I be able to notice the difference visually, or is it a tiny difference thats "all in the numbers" so to speak.

The diamond scores a 0.8 on the HCA and is in our color and clarity ranges. I am just agonizing (possibly without reason) over this Bscope thing.

We''ve been waiting about a month for something in our specifications to show up and this is the first thing we have found.

I''d to have to wait another month or more...but I am worried this diamond will not live up to the look my 1.04 has...

Advice please!
 

canadianice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
82
Jax - Where were the 2 VH's -- white light, coloured light, or scintillation? And in what position were the readings, ie VH3 (to the far right), VH2's (in the middle), or VH1's (near the border with High)?

I have always wondered about the relevance of the Brilliance Scope readings myself.

It's interesting, on some of the "educational diamonds" on the GOG website, there are Eightstars that have "High" readings in the white light and scintillation, whereas coloured light is VH3+ (off the charts)... and Eightstars are considered spectacular by many, so go figure!
 

Jax172

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
948
The High rating is in the White light and is smack in the middle of the High spectrum
One Very High is in the Colored Light is running off the charts in Very high spectrum
The other Very High is in the Scintillation and is right inside the Very High spectrum (not lopping over into High at all, but right into that Very High rating)


Does this help?
 

canadianice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
82
It all comes down to personal preference -- if the B'Scope readings are to be believed, and reflect true conditions, this stone appears to be more "firey" than brilliant (ie. returns coloured light more so than white light).

Also look at the images in the different positions to see how the stone appears, and whether the look appeals to you, compared to other stones you are interested in.

Good luck!
 

gg

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 25, 2002
Messages
18
Jax

Can you have the new diamond sent to you so that you can compare it with your current stone?

If you find that the bigger stone does not perform as well as the one you have right now, then you could return it and continue with the search.

I think that the problem with buying on specs only is that one does get all caught up in the numbers and graphics etc. I know I would hesitate to buy a stone over the internet without all VHs, but having actually seen some diamonds that didn't score as well, I'd be hardpressed to say that I actually saw any significant difference. However, you may, and that's what counts.
 

Rook

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
294
I agree with GG,

I have been scrutinizing over two diamonds according to the numbers. But, now that I have them to look at, I can hardly tell the difference between them. Once you get a chance to look at the diamond, and then give yourself some time to get over the wow factor, you will be able to decide yourself if it matters.

That being said, I still believe strongly in an expert independant opinion.

Good luck!
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,271
If I may.


Canadianice does bring up a good point. There are more expensive brands that get similar or lower ratings. When I was at the last Vegas show I had the opportunity to view stones from a well known dealer in H&A's (name begins wiht K) whose branded H&A's didn't hold up to the internal symmetry of this stone yet were being marketed as branded H&A's. Many of the H&A's I've seen also showed blatant leakage under the table time and time again. Jax, it's ok with me if you post a link to let others see and comment on it. I'm fine with constructive criticism so long as it helps me to serve my clients in a fuller capacity.

Personally and frankly, the stone is a beauty. So much so that I've purchased it for stock regardless, considering it's all around rarity factors of weight/clarity/color & cut.

Warning though. If Jax posts the link she still had dibs on it till she gives me the word.


Peace,
Rhino
 

Rook

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Oct 4, 2002
Messages
294
Hey Rhino. I wish I had enough money for two
 

Jax172

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
948
First, No I cannot view the stone before deciding, we'd have to pay for it first, and we're doing an upgrade, so they'd have to have my diamond back, or we'd have to pay the full amount. If we sent my ring back to them, then I could not compare the diamonds. And we don't have $9,600 to give them so we can view the ring.

Second, Jonathan I did not post the webpage because I didn't want other people to see it and the want it, thus causing me to feel rushed into deciding just yet. You had told me you'd make any diamonds we're interested in into private pages, but you did not. And now I feel pressured to make up my mind, so that you don't lose a sale.

So basically we're stuck now, we have no other options at this point expcept to keep waiting or take this stone dight unseen.

I don't know what to do............
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,143
----------------
On 2/15/2003 7
9:33 AM Jax172 wrote:

Second, Jonathan I did not post the webpage because I didn't want other people to see it and the want it, thus causing me to feel rushed into deciding just yet. You had told me you'd make any diamonds we're interested in into private pages, but you did not. And now I feel pressured to make up my mind, so that you don't lose a sale.

So basically we're stuck now, we have no other options at this point expcept to keep waiting or take this stone dight unseen.

I don't know what to do............
----------------
I have been resisting the urge all week to respond to this posting, but this last one finds me unable to restrain myself.

My advice to you, Jax is this: Just pick one. It won't matter what you pick because you'll never be completely happy with it. I don't mean disrespect, but I honestly don't believe you can have a "better experience" because.....you don't know what you want, you fixate on things that are non-issues, and you never seem to be satisfied. It's like you have to find *something* to agonize over.

The diamond in question rates an 0.8!!!!! on the HCA. It is positively gorgeous, and you're worried because it gets 2 V/highs and 1 high? Then you're worried that it won't be as nice as the stone you have. If you like the stone you have, then why are you looking for something else.

With regard to your above statement to Jonathan: This is a PERFECT example of what I'm talking about. Jonathan said in his post: "Warning though. If Jax posts the link she still had dibs on it till she gives me the word." And your inpretation of that is to feel pressured. HOW? He just said he won't give anyone else option on it until you determine if you want it or not. You might as well scrap this diamond anyway, because now that you feel "pressured", I'm sure the "experience" on this one will now be sullied beyond repair as well.

Jonathan, you're a saint. If I were in your shoes, I'd have dropped this hot potato a long time ago. Way, WAY too high maintenance.
 

Summer

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 26, 2002
Messages
50
Jax,

I read here every now and then, and found this site to be very useful in helping me buy diamond earrings thanks to all that post here and I did other diamond research on the web.

I was going to purchase over the internet but didn't like that I couldn't see the diamonds and ended up extremely happy with a purchase from a local jewelry store. I was shopping and researching for about 3 months and then someone I know recommended an excellent jeweler. The jeweler went to the NYC Diamond District, where he worked for 27 yrs. before having his own store, and brought back 3 sets of beautiful loose stones for me to see. He gave me lots of info about diamonds, certificates, etc. before I even asked him. Everything he told me was accurate according to the info I acquired and he could answer any question that I had. What a nice experience I had too viewing the loose stones and learning more about diamonds, especially how they're cut.

Having said that, my point to you is to find someone you trust to work with whether it's a b&m or internet store and let them do the shopping and present you with stones for your choosing that fit your requirements. This might be more doable at a b&m store.

Also it sounds like you are unable to interpret what the results returned from scope really mean in terms of how a diamond will appear. You know that saying “A little knowledge can be dangerous”. So in that respect perhaps you might be passing up some nice stones by obsessing over numbers. It also sounds like you have a nice diamond now!

I'm not familiar with what your'e experience was before. This is just my take on this as a consumer and what worked for me.

I do wish you good luck on your journey to find the right stone for you.
 

Hest88

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Jan 22, 2003
Messages
4,357
Jax, I seriously doubt that the one "High" is really going to make a visual difference. If it's otherwise a great stone, I'd just get it unless I'm the type of person who just likes knowing I have all VHs. If you're talking about it in practical terms, then it will probably perform just as well to the human eye.
 

Jax172

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
948
Excuse me but you do not know what you are talking about. Jonathan is no saint. I am not saying I am but, he has admitted in a previous post that he did things that were less than right last time around. As have we.

I know exactly what I want and I've told Jonathan this. But it often appears he doesn't listen and responds saying he has a diamond that is exactly what I didn't want. For example I told him we wanted a 1.2 - 1.3 E-F VS clarity stone. The stones he has offered are a 1.18 G VVS2 and a 1.31 E SI1 both of which I did not want. That is when I get aggravated, when GOG does not seem to listen. And as a consumer I think I have the right to expect that I will get the best service for my money. GOG did not give us the best service last time, and they have admitted it. There were a lot of things that we were not happy with about the last experience but I didn't feel it necessary to go into it on Pricescope. And I mean no disrespect to GOG here, but when a consumer gets bashed because they believe only the good feedback about a vendor, that is not right. Pricescope exists to give consumers a chance to find out all the details about a vendor, not just the good. And I have a right to post my experiences.


Likewise, I admitted that we were too impatient. So we were both at fault last time. And we both agreed to make this time better. We have been doing our part, being quite patient. Over a month, with only one stone being somewhat in our specifications is pretty patient. Especially when we were told in the beginning that GOG would call in stones from other sources, but until I finally emailed Jonathan about it last night, they have not done this. Also, Jonathan did not find this 1.34 F VS1 for us, I had to fill out the form online and Marie, his assistant did.

And Jonathan did promise me that he would only post a private page for us because he knows we don't want to feel rushed to make a decision because we want this time to go well. I'm sorry if you do not think it is relevant that he did not follow his promise, but I do. Especially because he is emailing me asking me if he can "let it go to the next bidder". Now, I don't want to take a sale away from him, but I think seeing as they called the stone in for us, and he even said we should take our time deciding that we ought to be able to do just that. But it isn't worth being harassed over. Forget it, Jonathan go ahead and sell it.

I really don't think it is fair for people to pass judgment on something they know very little about. I'll be the first to admit I am a perfectionist, but I'm also honest. I have admitted time and time again that part of my unhappiness is due to me being impatient. But GOG and I both know that that was not the only source of our problem.

And yes, the diamond we have now is gorgeous, but it's not what we wanted. We have a right to decide what is right for us. Thanks for your help, but I don't think "just picking one" is too smart. And honestly, you don't really know the whole story, so you cannot comment on us being happy with this stone. We're not, and GOG and Jonathan know why.


I never asked anyone not to go to GOG, because honestly I still believe they are a great resource. But I think it's only fair that if people can post all their glowing compliments about them, then I should post when I have a problem.

And I have posted on DT several times about how happy I was with GOG. This time I was not, and so I posted. If I am going to be harassed for it, so be it. Maybe GOG will at least take the comments to heart. Sometimes it's unhappy customers that make you learn the most about your business and how to improve it.

I'm not "high maintenance"; I just expect the best from the people I am giving my business to. Don't you expect the best when you do business with people? Last time we didn’t get the best from GOG and Jonathan admitted it and apologized to me and my fiancé. We accepted his apology and offered our own for our faults.

I did not start this post to bring up this crap again but to get honest opinions, but I see that some people are of the opinion that I do not deserve this because I went against the norm and posted less than glowing reviews about GOG. Never mind that I have recommended them time and time again to people, and even given him my father's diamond business even after the whole mess.

All I was asking for was opinions on this particular diamond. GOG and I have had problems, yes. And things are better on both ends. But I refuse to roll over and worship GOG. Not everything they do is perfect. Likewise, not everything I do is perfect. But to bash me for posting my experiences? When you don't even know half the story? That is not right.

Alright, fine. Here is something that will make you happy. GOG and Jonathan you have my permission to "drop me". At this point, my fiancé and I have decided this just is not worth our time and effort. Because obviously, no matter how much we try, we're always going to be blamed for any problems we have with GOG.

So everyone go to GOG! Not because they are perfect, because they are not. But because Jonathan and GOG do know their stuff and they will eventually find you what you want. I do believe Jonathan cares about his customers, I think that his business is just a little too booming at times to keep up with it all the way he would like to.

And finally, just for your information, Jonathan has told me that a lot of diamonds that score low on HCA like this one are not his top pick. So, the HCA score is not the be all and end all in diamond selecting. It is a tool, but definitely not the only thing to base a decision on. So picking a diamond just because it was a 0.8 is not exactly the way to go. At least that is what I have gathered from my private conversations with Jonathan.

Jonathan, I truly apologize if you feel we have mistreated or misrepresented anything here on Pricescope. We obviously do not feel we have. I've tried to be honest and fair in all my postings. I have given you credit where credit is due. But I also think that I have a right to let people know when something upsets us.

I honestly did not start this thread to get into it with you again. You know Joe and I have been trying our best to make things better on our end. I simply needed some opinions on this stone because I honestly didn't know what to do about it. But it appears all that has been accomplished was hurt feelings and angry posts. I'm putting an end to it now. Go ahead and sell that stone. May it find a happy home. It's just not for us. And if you want to "drop us" as was suggested that is fine. Thank you for all your help and good luck with your business. You know that we still wish you the best and will continue to recommend you in the future, though we will be honest and truthful about our experiences. I've never said you were a bad person or that people ought not go to GOG. I simply let them know that yes I had problems, but GOG was willing to help make them better. And that to me is a sign of a truly great business. Thank you for teaching me about diamonds and for putting up with my impatience. I'm sure this is not a rare quality in a woman when she is waiting for her engagement ring.

Keep in touch and good luck.

----------------
On 2/15/2003 9:47:35 AM aljdewey wrote:

----------------
On 2/15/2003 7
9:33 AM Jax172 wrote:

Second, Jonathan I did not post the webpage because I didn't want other people to see it and the want it, thus causing me to feel rushed into deciding just yet. You had told me you'd make any diamonds we're interested in into private pages, but you did not. And now I feel pressured to make up my mind, so that you don't lose a sale.

So basically we're stuck now, we have no other options at this point expcept to keep waiting or take this stone dight unseen.

I don't know what to do............
----------------
I have been resisting the urge all week to respond to this posting, but this last one finds me unable to restrain myself.

My advice to you, Jax is this: Just pick one. It won't matter what you pick because you'll never be completely happy with it. I don't mean disrespect, but I honestly don't believe you can have a "better experience" because.....you don't know what you want, you fixate on things that are non-issues, and you never seem to be satisfied. It's like you have to find *something* to agonize over.

The diamond in question rates an 0.8!!!!! on the HCA. It is positively gorgeous, and you're worried because it gets 2 V/highs and 1 high? Then you're worried that it won't be as nice as the stone you have. If you like the stone you have, then why are you looking for something else.

With regard to your above statement to Jonathan: This is a PERFECT example of what I'm talking about. Jonathan said in his post: "Warning though. If Jax posts the link she still had dibs on it till she gives me the word." And your inpretation of that is to feel pressured. HOW? He just said he won't give anyone else option on it until you determine if you want it or not. You might as well scrap this diamond anyway, because now that you feel "pressured", I'm sure the "experience" on this one will now be sullied beyond repair as well.

Jonathan, you're a saint. If I were in your shoes, I'd have dropped this hot potato a long time ago. Way, WAY too high maintenance.
----------------
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,271
DOH! What happened?

Jax... please relax. The only thing I'm doing wrong this time is that I can't snap my fingers and get exactly what you want. What you want is hard to find. I personally do not make promises I can't keep and I never promised you a time frame when I would find your exact stone.

I was a little surprised at this comment. "I know exactly what I want and I've told Jonathan this. But it often appears he doesn't listen and responds saying he has a diamond that is exactly what I didn't want. For example I told him we wanted a 1.2 - 1.3 E-F VS clarity stone. The stones he has offered are a 1.18 G VVS2 and a 1.31 E SI1 both of which I did not want. That is when I get aggravated, when GOG does not seem to listen."

I am listening and I am listening intently Jax. I thought I was doing the right thing by letting you know the closest stones I was getting to your call. I do this for anyone who makes a request. If I don't have *exactly* what they're looking for I'll let them know what I do have that's closest to the specs they are looking for before I start calling in other stones. Please don't get angry or upset with me because I am letting you know the closest things I am finding to your call. I was doing this because I know how fast you want to do this. It's not because I am not listening, it's becuase I can't magically produce exactly what you want.

As you know I have sold Joe's stone for you guys. I have no desire to drop you but if you would rather not do business with us, I don't twist anyone's arm or pressure people to do so. So, if you like I'll forward the check to you guys instead of applying it to your tradeup. You have never been under pressure from me to purchase the 1.34ct and if I would state publicly on a forum that I promise you first dibs on a stone (whether it's posted public or not) do you really think I would humiliate myself and sell it from under you when I promised I wouldn't?

I thought everything was going fine and we are here for you should you want me to continue to wait for the right stone. We never abandon our clients and concerning the stones from the other factories we discussed, the offer I made in email still stands. I should hear from those other factories by Tuesday if you're still interested.

Please respond in email.

Kind regards,
Jonathan
aka Rhino
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,271
And Jaxie...

Please know this about me. Before you are my client you are my friend (whether you know it or not). As such I would never do anything to jeapordize that relationship. And I will NEVER dis someone who has placed their confidence in me or has placed themself under my care.

We are here for you and I will still not move that stone until I hear back from you via email. Today was a madhouse in the store but I'm bringing my laptop with me over my Sun/Mon weekend so I can catch up on my emails. My apologies to all for any slight delays in responding. This week has been extremely busy in our store. I also had the pleasure of putting faces to some of the names I see here too and I always love to meet you guys and gals and share my passion with ya'll. Besides the toys are fun aren't they?


Peace,
Rhino
 

Jax172

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
948
Jonathan:
I've never asked you to make things magically appear. I've been patient right now, haven't I? I'd say four weeks with no progress is pretty patient. Especially when you said you'd call in stones from other sources (other than the usual guy) and I haven't heard a thing about that. And also when I see other diamond sites listing stones that are in our size and specifications. Just seems like you could be calling stuff in. But if we're wrong fine. We've waited on your guy for 4 weeks. We've been patient, haven't bugged you or anything. But obviously we think it is time to start doing what you said you would in the beginning and start looking outside your normal sources. But now, you are telling us we have to pay for you call in any stones from outside your usual sources. This is not a policy on your website, why is this a new policy for us? If we'd asked you to call in an unreasonable amount of stuff I'd see this as justified. But to call in 2 or 3 to try to find what we want? This seems odd seeing as it is not your normal practice.

And I think what upset me about the 1.31 E SI1 was your phrase "I have it slated for you" as if it was something we'd be thrilled about. Or as if you'd found what we wanted. I have no problem seeing everything that is available, but you did make it sound like it was meant for us, when you knew it wasn't what we wanted. If I took it wrong, then fine I apologize, but that is what upset me about it. Not that you told me about it at all.

And yes, yet again you bring up that you helped us sell a diamond. Yes you did and your great for that. The only reason I've not brought this up alot on boards is because I didn't want people to flock to you asking for help. Because truly you did not make much money off of helping us. But if you want to bring it up, fine. Yes that was an amazing thing to help with and we are appreciative of that. But it has no relevance to what we were talking about.


I'm signing off on this thread. It's obvious that no matter what I say, I'm never going to get anything but lip service from you. I posted in the thread above defending myself against an attack that was not warranted. I was very clear in the fact that it was not an attack against you. You could have come to my defense, but instead chose to once again respond to me by blaming us. We're not being unreasonable and you know it. We haven't asked for magic. We've only asked for honesty and for you to do what you say you are going to. By the way, I never got those results on the 1.18 G stone that I asked to see. You said you'd send it to us and never did. You said you'd called in stones from other sources. I never saw but one that you said was terrible. You said you'd look into stones I'd seen on Pricescope (besides the Superbcerts) but I never heard about those. Now mind you, they may not have been available, but I never heard about it. And I have 2 emails in which you refer to how you have other people inquiring about the 1.34 and have I decided that I don't want it so it can "go to the next highest bidder?" And I am sorry, but I find it hard to believe that your usual source does not keep a log of what he sends out to GIA for certification. Seems to me it would be pretty important to know which stones are where. So telling us that maybe in 2 weeks something will be in our specifications seems fishy to us. How can he not know if he sent 1.2-1.3's in for certification? Sure he doesn't know what GIA will grade them as, but I think being a diamond cutter he'd have a good idea if there was something close to what we wanted. But all you can say is he doesn't really know what he sent in.

Jonathan, we're unhappy with the way things are going. We've been more than patient this time. But things are starting to get funny again. First you say you will call in stones, and now you say it is too expensive and we'll have to pay for the shipping. Just give us the truth from the beginning. Be straight with us. We don't expect magic, we just expect you to do the things you said you were going to do. Joe will be handling this from now on. Perhaps he will get straight answers about all this. I know you will post back saying this and that about how everything I say is wrong. I expect that from you, because you'd never admit that you're wrong. I've admitted it and I will again. Yes, I made mistakes last time and it helped lead to the current situation. But not this time. I have all the emails to prove that I have not been impatient or upset with you. You have gotten about 3 phone calls from us in a month. I hardly call that being impatient or expecting magic. But if you'd like to keep saying that about us and then claiming you see us as friends, go ahead. The way I see it friends don't treat people like this. They take into consideration their feelings rather than quickly covering their butt to make themselves look good. Personally I never tried to insult you before this. I tried to be civil and tell people the truth. See the above post, I'm not trying to be rude. And I apologized if you took it that way. But as a consumer I have a right to post when I am upset with the treatment I am getting. Rather than correcting the problem you chose to once again blame us for expecting "magic" when you know that just is not true this time.
 

La Femme

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 15, 2003
Messages
1
I completely agree with everything you said, aljdewey. Jonathan, you really /are/ a saint! She gave you a perfect opportunity to drop her, but you've said that you won't. You're a better person than I.

Jax, you have to understand that from an outsider's POV, it looks like you are a spoiled and demanding princess-type who has a doormat of a fiance. Joe showers you in all sorts of jewelry (most recently the Valentines ring you posted about), and you've upgraded your ring 5 or 6 times now. What do you expect people to think when you keep asking for advice on your next purchase?

Your alluding to problems you've had with GOG on DT (and here) gets old. Just say what he did that made your experience so horrible. Don't think so highly of yourself to imagine that he'd lose a lot of business from a negative testimonial. He's had not-so-great ones before, and his business appears to be doing fine. But when you go on DT and say that you've had a bad experience with him, only to not say what he did, it makes people think the situation is probably worse than it actually was. So he didn't get back to you promptly at every turn? So your ring arrived one day later than planned? So he's had a hard time finding your perfect stone for the past month? You make it sound like he's done /much/ worse than that.

I'm also a firm believer in spending money on what makes you happy - if you have the money. If jewelry is your thing and Joe honestly wants to give it to you, great. But it does make one wonder to see a young couple in their early 20s spending all sorts of money on various pieces of jewelry, and even moreso if the girl in question will soon have a 1.2-1.3 carat rock. Isn't there anything higher on your list of priorities?

Lastly, you have /very high/ expectations of what your "experience" should be like. Surely now this experience is tainted now, too? High, high maintenance.
 

liz

Rough_Rock
Joined
Dec 13, 2002
Messages
100
----------------
On 2/15/2003 6:47
6 PM La Femme wrote:

Jax, you have to understand that from an outsider's POV, it looks like you are a spoiled and demanding princess-type who has a doormat of a fiance. Joe showers you in all sorts of jewelry (most recently the Valentines ring you posted about), and you've upgraded your ring 5 or 6 times now. What do you expect people to think when you keep asking for advice on your next purchase?

----------------
Agreed. Jaxie, whether you see yourself this way or not, this is the image your behavior is projecting. Grow up and learn that the world cannot always conform to your exact specifications within your exact time frame.
 

Jax172

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Mar 11, 2002
Messages
948
----------------
On 2/15/2003 6:47
6 PM La Femme wrote:

-I completely agree with everything you said, aljdewey. Jonathan, you really /are/ a saint! She gave you a perfect opportunity to drop her, but you've said that you won't. You're a better person than I. -

Jonathan is no saint, he won't "drop us" because he's making money off of us. And besides, if he did drop us, he'd be going against all his business policies and surely would get some backlash for it. Don't kid yourself into think GOG and Jonathan are the great saviors of the diamond business.

-Jax, you have to understand that from an outsider's POV, it looks like you are a spoiled and demanding princess-type who has a doormat of a fiance. Joe showers you in all sorts of jewelry (most recently the Valentines ring you posted about), and you've upgraded your ring 5 or 6 times now. What do you expect people to think when you keep asking for advice on your next purchase?-

Joe is no doormat. And I don't like that everyone here assumes that they know me or my fiance. And yet your willing to believe GOG is a saint. You know as much about me as any other person over the internet. Nothing. So keep your snide comments about me and my fiance to yourself. I've never been rude to anyone here on Pricescope. But this is inexcusable. You know what I expect when I ask advice? Advice. I'm not different that anyone here. You haven't a clue why we've upgraded so many times. You don't know the half of our story. And what difference does it make anyways? If my fiance wants to give me jewelry who the heck are you to think that entitles people to treat me with disrespect and brutal attacks against me and my fiance (whom none of you have met I might add). Ask Jonathan whom he always deals with when it comes to diamonds. Joe is the only person he has ever talked to on the phone. Joe doesn't post on web boards, sorry. Does he have to before you'll believe he isn't a "doormat"?

-Your alluding to problems you've had with GOG on DT (and here) gets old. Just say what he did that made your experience so horrible. Don't think so highly of yourself to imagine that he'd lose a lot of business from a negative testimonial. He's had not-so-great ones before, and his business appears to be doing fine. But when you go on DT and say that you've had a bad experience with him, only to not say what he did, it makes people think the situation is probably worse than it actually was. So he didn't get back to you promptly at every turn? So your ring arrived one day later than planned? So he's had a hard time finding your perfect stone for the past month? You make it sound like he's done /much/ worse than that. -

I have not gone into detail here about EVERYTHING that makes us unhappy, because A. We're still hoping it will work itself out. B. I never started this theard as an attack against GOG, someone else felt the need to attack me for no good reason. And finally C. Because I'm tired of hearing the "GOG is a saint" line everytime I post a negative experience that is out of line with his usual comments. I've posted quite a few good comments for GOG, and no ever tries to attack me for it. But the minute I have a bad experience, my personal character gets attacked. Who needs that in their life? Not I.

But since you deliberatly pointed this out. No, we were not unhappy that we got the ring late last time. We were unhappy that no one at GOG thought it was important to call us and let us know that the ring was going to be late. If you're wanting for a package worth thousands of dollars, you like to know where it is don't you? And if someone is going to break their promise, you'd like the courtesy of a call wouldn't you? I'm sorry if that was sooooo out of the question. By the way look back into the other thread, Jonathan did admit this was wrong and apaologized for it. So I don't know why you're bringing this up again.

And also, I'm not mad that he can't "magically make a diamond appear". I'm not upset about that at all, because we haven't asked him to do that. We've given him A LOT of time, and we're still giving him time. What I am mad about is that he has yet to do several things he said he was going to do. A. When we first started talking about this again, I showed him some stones we'd seen on pricescope. Jonathan said he would look into them and check with his usual source. His usual source had nothing, so he said he would call in stones from other sources which would possibly be the stones on Pricescope. After that we've never heard about these stones he called in. I've emailed him about it several times, and except for one terrible stone we've heard nothing. And that means that often times the emails didn't get answered. (I have every email to prove it too). So, we're not mad and Jonathan if he's honest can come right in here and testify that for four weeks we've been fine. So all we've gotten is 4 weeks of once a week hearing what his diamond guy got in. B. So, when this began I also filled out the "find a diamond" form on his site. Marie, his assistant found me 2 stones in our range almost immediately. One of them being the 1.34 F VS1. Seems to me that stones in our range are out there to be found. Yet, we're not hearing about any of them from Jonathan. Fine who cares because Marie found it. C. After this 1.34 turned out to be less than what we'd hoped. A fellow DTer suggested that Jonathan might be able to call in stones that are listed on other sites, because most of the time dealers do not keep them in stock and they can be called in from the cutters. I asked Jonathan about this, and he says yeah I can call them in, but you'll have to pay for us to do it if they make us pay shipping. Now, granted this is a policy of Jan & Brad, but this has never to my knowledge been a policy of GOG. And thus far they've called in 1 stone for us (1.34 F VS1) which they ended up buying for their stock anyways. And Jonathan himself has told me stories about him helping out a customer for 6 months looking for the perfect stone, I doubt that that customer is paying for six months of shipping charges. This new policy only came up when I asked again why had he not called stones in for us like he said he would. He suddenly claimed it was too expensive and a waste of time because he knew they would not be good diamonds. I have the email to prove it. To be honest that is totally fine with us, if he had said this from the beginning because we trust him when it comes to diamonds. But why tell us you will do something and then a month later say "I didn't do it because..." All we're asking is for some honesty from the beginning. We're reasonable people, though no one here thinks that because Jonathan comes here posting about us expecting "magic" which was true last time to some extent but has not been at all true this time around.

My father recently bought a diamond from GOG. Jonathan was great in helping me find an excellent stone fast. He got it set pronto and it was gorgeous. But, the cert was not sent with the diamond. When we called to ask where it was (My Dad thought my Mom would think it was so neat to get a certed diamond for her B-day) because we needed it for here B-day, they said they'd send it the next day. So 2 days later, no cert. Her B-day passed with no cert. I talked to Jonathan online and he said I should call. I said we already called, why do we have to make an expensive phone call to NY again when they promised to send it in the first place. He said your right, I'll let Christen know to send it tomorrow along with a H & A viewer for your Dad. Great! So, Tuesday comes, no cert. So I emailed him again. Turns out they didn't even have the cert yet. And he talked to me like it was no big deal and that every time the call a stone in on memo they don't get the cert right away. That is fine, but why didn't anyone know this and why were we told 3 times it would get sent the next day when they didn't even have it in the store? I just hate the run around over there. It would take 5 minutes to look for the thing, and tell us it is not here yet, rather than just telling us what we want to hear to get us off the phone. It was a lot of aggravation for nothing. We seriously could not have been mad if they'd just have told us the truth from the beginning. And when the cert finally came, there was no H & A viewer as promised. I wouldn't have cared expcept I'd told my Dad he was getting one. So that resulted in yet another email to GOG. Finally we did get the viewer and everything turned out ok. But it should not have been such a huge ordeal. If they could have taken the time to find out what we really going on in the first place. I should not have to chase them around to find out what is going on. I should make one phone call. They call me back and say "we don't have the cert yet because.....but as soon as it is here, we will let you know and send it" End of story. Easy huh? This is the type of stuff that gets annoying really. Not so much angersome as a big pain in the butt.

Bacially the problems with GOG are many many many little things that were not right. I could go on and list them all, but I started this thread for opinions, not to bring up old wounds. Someone else did that because they felt the need to attack my personal character. The main problem I have with GOG and Jonathan right now, is we get alot of them telling us what we want to hear, and then weeks later they still have not done it. And Jonathan says if you want an immediate answer you have to call. Well fine, but last time we called a lot and we were told we stressed his staff out. And yet when I start to post any of these problems he immediately posts back saying "no no we answer all emails and questions same day or next day" and everyone believes him. A fellow DTer PMed me letting me know that one of the reasons they did not used GOG was because they never answered her email. Seems I'm not the only one with GOG problems. But no one brings them up because of these unwarranted attacks when you go against the GOG empire.

-I'm also a firm believer in spending money on what makes you happy - if you have the money. If jewelry is your thing and Joe honestly wants to give it to you, great. But it does make one wonder to see a young couple in their early 20s spending all sorts of money on various pieces of jewelry, and even moreso if the girl in question will soon have a 1.2-1.3 carat rock. Isn't there anything higher on your list of priorities?-

Again, do you know me? Ask GOG we've never bought anything with a credit card from them. Not that it is any of your business, but the ring I have is paid for. No payments on a card, just out right paid for. We're paying for our wedding. By ourselves with our money and no credit cards. We live in a nice apartment in a nice suburb and guess what? We're paying our rent too. My priorities are making us happy and not getting into debt. Do not presume to know that I am running us into debt because we have nice things. Our parents are not rich, and everything we buy Joe and I pay for ourselves. I have a nice car, but I bought it used. I have nice clothes, but I buy them on sale. I have a nice ring, but I have one because Joe saved money for it. All those upgrades you love to mention? This was our way of working up to the dream ring. We didn't have the money for it when we started out. Rather than going into debt we just worked our way up. Sorry if you think that is wrong but it worked for us. No ring debt and we have a nice ring. I hate when people assume we're in major debt and that I must be a money grubbing witch. It just isn't so. Some young people are smart enough not to get themselves into debt over luxury items. Oh and guess what? Sometime in the next 2 years we're going to buy a house. With our money because we're saving it for a house. Satisfied? I'm sorry if I upset you because I have nice jewelry and I'm in my 20's. But yes, Joe likes to by it for me. And I buy him expensive video game systems and electronic toys that he doesn't "need" but wants. Who cares? I don't question people when they ask advice on DT or here: "It's nice but do you have the money for it because you are only 23"? Just goes to show you that people assume alot about other people online and they don't even know what they are talking about it. So I guess I don't deserve respect because we're 22 and are buying an expensive ring.

-Lastly, you have /very high/ expectations of what your "experience" should be like. Surely now this experience is tainted now, too? High, high maintenance.-

Yes I have high expectations. When you go to the a store and ask " Do you have this in a size 5", you don't expect them to hand you a size 10 or make you sit their waiting for an hour and after you come back and ask again they say "Ok I'll look but you have to pay me to go look for you". You expect service right? You expect them to listen to you and find you want you need, or at least try to help you find it. Same thing here except on a much larger scale. I expect to be treated with respect. I expect them to be honest and not tell me things to get me to go away. I expect that when they say they will do something the will do it without my having to ask about 6 times. I expect that I will get the same attention as everyone else. And I expect that if a problem arises, they will do their best to take care of it rather than blaming it on me, their customer. We are giving them quite a bit of our hard earned money, I should think we'd get that. But sadly we have not gotten that.

I've never attacked someone's personal character because I've disagreed with them. You may have had a different experience with GOG, and that is fine. I've had a different experience with GOG, which is why this new treatment is so bothersome to us. But I'd never attack some and allud to them being a stuck up, debt inducing and fiance using person. Go ahead and believe that, because honestly I just do not care. You don't know me at all. And I don't know you so I can't say anything bad about you except you ought not assume too much.
 

trichrome

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Dec 9, 2002
Messages
397
Hey Jax,

You're making good comments. Let me give here my little point of view.
Jonathan is a dealer. That's it. He wants to make money. He will not sell you a stone
without making any money on it. 100% guaranteed. GOG prices are what I will
call a little bit over the usual price. Why? Because he will show you that the stone
you're buying is gorgous with all the possible analysis equipment he can find in the US!
He makes his money in buying stones that looks very good to the diamond dealer and discover that
theses stones are more than very good when he looks at them with his well-trained eye.
Then he resells them with a premium.
All this takes time and money from his part. It's very diffucult sometimes to find THE
diamond you're looking at.

I also do agree that Jonathan is not a saint. Neither do I. It's all about making money!
That's sad as it is. Business is business.

Trichrome.
 

lawmax

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
1,317
Jax,

I admit I've only scanned all of these posts, but isn't there a possibility that another dealer will work with you? Choose someone else and see what they will do for you. If someone has a buyer for your stone, (you still have one?), perhaps you can just upgrade with them. Check around.

lawmax
 

aljdewey

Ideal_Rock
Joined
Nov 25, 2002
Messages
9,143
You still don't seem to get it. The purpose of my comments were not to defend GOG.....because I personally don't think it matters who you deal with. I think you'll find something to be unhappy about even if you try to work with the Pope to find you a diamond.

I'll say it again in case you just missed it.....I'm not defending GOG. I don't know him at all. I'm saying that you are never happy with anything.

This isn't a personal attack on you, as you think it is. It is an observation based on YOUR comments about the various diamonds you've had to date.

You don't know what you want, you find fault with every stone for the smallest of reasons, and nothing is ever done fast enough for you. Those are my observations based ON YOUR WORDS.

You asked for advice and opinions....and I gave you mine. I'll repeat it, because you apparently missed it: Pick any diamond, because it won't matter what you pick. You won't be happy with it anyway, and if perchance you can't find fault with the stone, you'll most certainly find a way to find fault with "the experience". It is impossible to make you happy in my opinion.

Again, no disrespect meant....just an honest telling of advice and opinions, as YOU asked.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
How can a person be unhappy with "the experience"? I am not being sarcastic or cheeky just don't understand your words Aldewey.
 

canadianice

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 4, 2003
Messages
82
Pyramid:

Complaining about "the experience" was, apparently, Princess Jax's initial complaint...

Anybody else have dirty laundry to air publicly?

My eyes are doing the Krispy Kreme (or Tim Hortons in Canada) on this thread... completely glazing over.

Public petulance isn't pretty.
 

ccuheartnurse

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 22, 2002
Messages
1,734
LOL CanadianIce....by the way, too many Tim Hortons around. haha Then again, at 1am, they wont let you down.

I have been shaking my head since the beginning of your saga stories Jax. The one that you lost me on was the one at Christmas. I really thought you were way off base wailing like a child cause you couldnt get your 1ct that you wanted ASAP. I thought, how childish, doesnt she know its the busiest time of the year? And, correct me if I'm wrong, but wasnt it your fiance who mailed your original ring in late & thats why you got your new one late??
.
Fast forward just a couple of mths. You say you've been patient for 4 wks now. It took me 7 mths to make up my mind in regards to *my* perfect stone. Of all the vendors that I communcicated with, not many could find what I wanted. I just needed to sit on my hands & wait it out. The stones can only come out of GIA/AGS labs fast enough. And god knows, none of us would buy a stone without either one of those certs to back it up.
.
I dont care what your financial situation is or how old you are. If you want a bigger stone, then get one, if you want a new car, then get one, if you want a pedicure, get one, I dont care. Your life does nothing for mine. I just find it frustrating that you take your dilemas so public. Take them private then you will not get the opinions you dont want to get.
.
I think though, that in regards to what Lawmax said about going to another vendor. You've squashed that idea or will be very lucky to find one that will talk with you. I wouldnt deal with you if I were a vendor. I suggest you give Jonathan a bit more time before you so rashly say you wont deal with him anymore. He is afterall, the one with the lifetime trade in option that you found appealing enough to deal with him in the 1st place. And who gives a rats a$$ if it was his assistant or him that found you your present stone? She works for him doesnt she? Its his business isnt it? I dont get why the nit picky behaviour. Let me also say, I have never bought anything from Jon & nor am I defending him. He has admitted he could have taken care of you better in the past. Give the guy a chance now. I did sell my other stone, at a huge loss. This would happen to you if you went elsewhere. And, dont kid yourself about them the sellers needing your money. They will do just fine without you. I dont intend this to be mean spirited, after all, I dont know you. But I am trying to help you keep things in perspecive. Keep the 1ct if you like it & s***w the "experience" cause to me thats a cop out. The stone is gorgeous. Its now up to you to make the "experience" a happy one since its on your hand.

Judy
 

lawmax

Brilliant_Rock
Joined
Dec 31, 1999
Messages
1,317
----------------
On 2/17/2003 3
7:30 PM ccuheartnurse wrote:

I think though, that in regards to what Lawmax said about going to another vendor. You've squashed that idea or will be very lucky to find one that will talk with you. I wouldnt deal with you if I were a vendor. I suggest you give Jonathan a bit more time before you so rashly say you wont deal with him anymore. He is afterall, the one with the lifetime trade in option that you found appealing enough to deal with him in the 1st place. And who gives a rats a$$ if it was his assistant or him that found you your present stone? She works for him doesnt she? Its his business isnt it? I dont get why the nit picky behaviour. Let me also say, I have never bought anything from Jon & nor am I defending him. He has admitted he could have taken care of you better in the past. Give the guy a chance now. I did sell my other stone, at a huge loss. This would happen to you if you went elsewhere. And, dont kid yourself about them the sellers needing your money. They will do just fine without you. I dont intend this to be mean spirited, after all, I dont know you. But I am trying to help you keep things in perspecive. Keep the 1ct if you like it & s***w the "experience" cause to me thats a cop out. The stone is gorgeous. Its now up to you to make the "experience" a happy one since its on your hand.

Judy

----------------
I suggested another vendor because it seemed that there was perhaps a mismatch in that customer/vendor relationship. If there is a lack of trust and good will, it is difficult to imagine that any future business relationship will end on a wholly positive note, though it is possible. Once you've dug yourself into a ditch, it often pays to get out instead of continuing to dig. Also, perhaps consulting with others as to what options are truly available would help put things into perspective.

lawmax
 

Rhino

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
Mar 28, 2001
Messages
6,271
Dear Jax,

While I prefer to keep these things between us in email I am forced to respond what is written about me publicly.

First ... no claims are made here of perfection.

2nd. We have however been 110% straight forward and 110% honest with you about everything we have done. You have seen the results of some of the stones we called in however I will not waste my time scanning in diamonds that I know you are not going to be happy with. Time is a very precious commodity and I know you do respect our time as well as our resources looking for your stone. Once I've called in 3-5 stones from various sources (outside my norm) and you're not happy with the BEST of them (that 1.34ct), if I am going to call in more stones, spend hundreds of dollars more on shipping (not considering my time to analyse, scan them and post an html on them), then YES I will ask that you cover my shipping on these if you are not willing to wait for my normal connections to get me the right stone. I do not think this is unfair on my part nor am I breaking any promises.

When stones are being shipped from overseas this gets VERY expensive.

Let me also make one thing clear too. Jaxie has been very patient up till this point. I'm not saying that you're expecting magic here but if what you want is not available my humble request is simply for more patience. Please don't get upset with me if I ask that of you. It has nothing to do with not listening to you, or being insensitive to your needs. Believe me, I am VERY sensitive to your needs. All I am saying is that I can not force what you want into being.

I suggest we keep this between ourselves in email. If you prefer not to work with me and you don't think much of me or our operation, I will make you this offer. Out of courtesy and to show you there are no hard feelings here I will offer to sell your diamond via our website like I did the other. Once I sell it I'll forward you the funds (less our commission) and you can purchase a diamond elsewhere. I have no desire to see you upset and it seems that no matter what I do or how accommodating I try to be something goes wrong.

Let me know if this sounds like something you'd like to do and I will try to accommodate you any way I can.

Peace,
Jonathan
 

ccuheartnurse

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 22, 2002
Messages
1,734
Lawmax,
They have both dug themselves into a ditch. I think what Jonathan is offering in his latest email is commendable. I would certainly take that option if I had ill feelings I couldnt, or actually, wouldnt shake. I know the trouble I had selling my old stone & the loss of it. Jonathan, nice offer. And I am by no means calling you a saint, understand?
This option seems to work best for both Jon & Jaxie.

Judy
:)
 
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