Diamond Advice

[bmfang]

...

@bmfang I considered the round by OEC standards - with the broad facets excusing some departure from the modern Ideal, one way or another.

A choice to have

*thumbs up*

 

[WallaForPM]

Ooo thanks for your insight! So fluorescence is beneficial on a lower colour stone but detrimental/makes no difference to higher colour grades? I'll likely stick to J and I stones so this is super helpful.

To be honest, I think we are going to go ahead with one of either of these two, purely just for time constraints and I think the more time I spend researching the more confused I seem to get haha.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4022605.htm

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-di...70293.htm?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

They're the ones that got posted early on in the forum by lovedogs, now I'm just trying to decide which is the better option. Which do you prefer? (Taking into consideration the different prices)

The second one to me looks like a MRB trying to be a Old European Cut. Very high CA and only very good cut grade by GIA would cause me to pass on that stone. It does have very nice fat arrows (lower girdle percentage more likely to be under 75% than marginally above).

When the vast majority of GIA graded stones on the market are graded with an Excellent cut grade, buying very good isn’t worth it IMO.

As for fluorescence, most Aussie jewellers are likely to tell you that fluorescence is not a good thing to have. In reality, it is a good thing (blue fluorescence may help to mask yellow tint in lower colour grades) and as the market tends to discount stones with fluorescence, you save money too. For examples of beautifully cut stones with fluorescence, I’d check out Brian Gavin Diamonds Blue range.

For example, https://www.briangavindiamonds.com/...1.360-h-vs1-round-diamond-ags-bl-104100653073

Unfortunately nothing really within your price range there but it is good to look at to see how fluorescence doesn’t usually result in a diamond appearing hazy or milky. Of course, buying from a dropshipper like James Allen or Blue Nile means you have a bit more work to do to weed out bad performing stones with or without fluorescence. That’s what we’re here for.

 

[bmfang]

How much do you want a stone that hits the 1.5ct mark is my first question @WallaForPM.

Because USD$900 is a fair chunk of change at our current AUD-USD exchange rate.

Also, will you really be able to notice a diameter difference of around 0.13mm? If the diameter difference was around 0.2mm, then it’d be a slightly different issue then as I think the diameter difference is more likely to be noticeable than the current 0.13mm difference.

In terms of the technical aspects of both stone, both of them are cut exceedingly well.

The only thing is on the plot. The 1.53 is mind clean under the table facet compared with the 1.44, however it’s quite unlikely you’ll notice the inclusions from about a 30cm school ruler distance away from your eyes.

 

[WallaForPM]

I'm not really too worried, and if it were my own money I would definitely go with the cheaper option. My partner insists I get whichever one I prefer, because I'll hopefully be wearing it for a very long time. I think if all other dimensions are the same, most people would obviously prefer the slightly larger stone, but I just can't help feeling like it's a waste of his money.

I definitely won't notice the size difference, and if people ever ask me the size of either I think I would just refer to both as 1.5 ct.

Hmm okay I didn't even think about the inclusions. I just had another look at the pictures of both and my untrained eyes can't see anything even at the large magnification, so I'm sure I won't notice anything or be too fussed either way.

How much do you want a stone that hits the 1.5ct mark is my first question @WallaForPM.

Because USD$900 is a fair chunk of change at our current AUD-USD exchange rate.

Also, will you really be able to notice a diameter difference of around 0.13mm? If the diameter difference was around 0.2mm, then it’d be a slightly different issue then as I think the diameter difference is more likely to be noticeable than the current 0.13mm difference.

In terms of the technical aspects of both stone, both of them are cut exceedingly well.

The only thing is on the plot. The 1.53 is mind clean under the table facet compared with the 1.44, however it’s quite unlikely you’ll notice the inclusions from about a 30cm school ruler distance away from your eyes.

 

[bmfang]

I'm not really too worried, and if it were my own money I would definitely go with the cheaper option. My partner insists I get whichever one I prefer, because I'll hopefully be wearing it for a very long time. I think if all other dimensions are the same, most people would obviously prefer the slightly larger stone, but I just can't help feeling like it's a waste of his money.

I definitely won't notice the size difference, and if people ever ask me the size of either I think I would just refer to both as 1.5 ct.

Hmm okay I didn't even think about the inclusions. I just had another look at the pictures of both and my untrained eyes can't see anything even at the large magnification, so I'm sure I won't notice anything or be too fussed either way.

You think like my wife did with her push present. She’s got a 0.962ct K VS2 Brian Gavin Blue. She could not see the point in spending an additional USD$1k at the time for a 5pt difference to go over the 1ct mark. So she rounds up to 1ct whenever anyone asks her how big is her stone.

Re: inclusions, don’t look at the grading reports Seriously, go for whichever one that “speaks to you” more. Both are gorgeous.

Given you’re out in the bush (and I’m presuming you aren’t close by to a regional centre like Wagga, Kalgoorlie, Toowoomba, Albury-Wodonga for example), no one out that way past woop-woop will have a stone that compares anywhere close to what you will have with an ACA. Most of the jewellers in regional centres seem to be affiliated with the Showcase Jewellers buying group and I haven’t been too impressed with the stones I’ve seen at the few local Showcase Jeweller affiliated stores here in Brisbane (though to be fair, their pricing is a little better than a lot of the chain stores IMHO).

 

[WallaForPM]

Haha now that you mention it, I'm currently expecting as well, so perhaps a push present is also in order

We're actually only in regional Victoria (not rural), I got the distinction mixed up. So we're only 2 hours away from a shopping centre and probably 3 from the Melbourne CBD. I only checked out the shopping centre with large chains like Michael Hill and stuff, and they were really expensive for really unimpressive looking stones (20k for an incredibly cloudy/dull 1.0ct stone). So we didn't bother too much more with places in-store. I know Melbourne will definitely have some high quality jewellers but it could take a few visits and we just aren't keen for the trek up.

You think like my wife did with her push present. She’s got a 0.962ct K VS2 Brian Gavin Blue. She could not see the point in spending an additional USD$1k at the time for a 5pt difference to go over the 1ct mark. So she rounds up to 1ct whenever anyone asks her how big is her stone.

Re: inclusions, don’t look at the grading reports Seriously, go for whichever one that “speaks to you” more. Both are gorgeous.

Given you’re out in the bush (and I’m presuming you aren’t close by to a regional centre like Wagga, Kalgoorlie, Toowoomba, Albury-Wodonga for example), no one out that way past woop-woop will have a stone that compares anywhere close to what you will have with an ACA. Most of the jewellers in regional centres seem to be affiliated with the Showcase Jewellers buying group and I haven’t been too impressed with the stones I’ve seen at the few local Showcase Jeweller affiliated stores here in Brisbane (though to be fair, their pricing is a little better than a lot of the chain stores IMHO).

 

[bmfang]

@WallaForPM , you may want to make a trip to visit Holloway Diamonds. The inventor of the Idealscope (and one of the PS founders I understand he is) has his base I think in Brighton and Canterbury (both in Victoria).

https://www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au/

His stones there will be utterly spectacular.

 

[WallaForPM]

Thanks! Will try and check them out in the next few days before we have to take the plunge.

@WallaForPM , you may want to make a trip to visit Holloway Diamonds. The inventor of the Idealscope (and one of the PS founders I understand he is) has his base I think in Brighton and Canterbury (both in Victoria).

https://www.hollowaydiamonds.com.au/

His stones there will be utterly spectacular.

 

[lovedogs]

@WallaForPM I would have WF take pics of both and let you see them on someone's hand in a few different lighting situations. I bet you'll be drawn to one over the other (or literally won't care, in which case go for less $$). Both are great, I would let your eyes/heart choose

 

[sledge]

1. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3986352.htm
This one has all the measurements everyone mentioned but is smaller than ideal.

54.9 table, 61.9 depth, 34.6 crown, 40.7 pavilion & 76 LGF

Wowsas....a freakin' firecracker!! Small table and IMO just awesome proportions. Look at the video and watch it do the magical sparkle dance. Amazing!

Also part of the ACA collection so great upgrades, all the performance images, etc.

2. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4001980.htm
Same as above.

55 table, 62.4 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF

Again....wowsas. Dreamy proportions. This is a great find from WF's PS line. The ASET, idealscope and H&A images look fantastic! It's GIA certified which is why it received the PS moniker; however, I think there is little doubt this would go as an Ideal 0 cut if presented to AGS labs. You get all the good stuff of the ACA line with a discount for the PS. An excellent bang for the buck!

FYI, I think it may have missed the ACA requirements as it's GIA certified (as opposed to AGS) and also the depth is pushing the max at 62.4. But clearly the stone is a performer and this is NOT a reason to reject.

You actually get a color bump and slight size increase over the first one

3. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4055674.htm
This one has the right depth and table but it doesn't have the other information.

55 table, 61.5 depth, 33 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF

This is the first stone you've linked that is part of "virtual inventory". What this means is that the stone is cut and housed by a supplier that is normally overseas. Multiple retailers such as WF, Yadav, BN, Adiamor, etc will have access to the stone. As such, each retailer will have different relationships with each supplier and will price the stone differently so it's possible to find the same identical stone with a different retailer for less money.

FYI, we frequently talk about WF and their awesomeness. You need to be clear that awesomeness is based on their IN-HOUSE stones that fall under the A Cut Above (ACA), Expert Select (ES) and Premium Select (PS) monikers. The ACA/ES/PS stones are housed in WF's vault and comes with complete grading certificates, performance & symmetry images, trade-in policies, buy-back policies, etc.

Virtual inventory stones are an entirely different beast and may or may not be up to the standards of WF's in-house product lines.

All that said, this stone is virtual inventory and available at 3 other vendors. Using wire, you can obtain for as little as $7,150. I am not a fan of the shallow 33 crown & 40.8 pavilion as the crown is too shallow. We want to stay at 34 or above.

If you look at the ED site, you will see this stone actually has a pretty good ASET. But OMG, look at the hearts image! I'd pass on this stone.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R140-29Z8Z7146?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.4-carat-j-vs1-yd4302533

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....1&b=7.487&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

4. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3970293.htm
All the measurements seem to be in the right ranges.

55.3 table, 61.8 depth, 34.8 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 76 LGF

Again, gorgeous proportions and great images to back it up. Of course, this is an ACA so perfection is expected. The video looks great and I see no reason not to consider this stone. Looking at the video, it's rather apparent it's a sparkle bomb!

5. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4021081.htm
This only has the depth and table listed.

57 table, 62 depth, 35.5 crown, 41 pavilion & 80 LGF

More virtual inventory. Not sure why the GIA cert is not listed, but the stone is also available on FourMine for $9,340 wire. The steep 35.5 crown does not pair well with a steep 41 pavilion angle so I would pass on this one myself.

https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/95992462?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2018

6. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4039727.htm
Only has depth and table listed. It's significantly cheaper than the others.

57 table, 61.6 depth, 34 crown, 41.2 pavilion & 80 LGF

Again, virtual inventory. Price is now $11,605 wire -- not sure what it was when you originally posted. Overall, the right idea trying to pair a shallow crown with a steep pavilion but IMO the 41.2 is a little too steep. I'd like to see 40.9, or maybe 41 as the max pavilion with that 34 crown.

Also, shallower crowns produce more white light and less rainbow light. The 80 LGF's do the same thing along with making it look splintery vs big bold flashes of rainbow. My point is the characteristic of this stone will be one that produces lots of white light vs big bold rainbow flashes (fire).

Again, alternate sources for just slightly less money.

https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/98331179?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2018

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.56-carat-g-si1-yd4008522

7. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4054328.htm
Only depth and table listed.

56 table, 61.9 depth, 35 crown, 40.8 pavilion and 75 LGF

Another virtual inventory. Proportions may work. I'd like to see a shallower 40.6 pavilion paired with that steep 35 crown, but depending on cut quality, etc a 40.8 pavilion can work. It is available elsewhere for a little cheaper.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R160-7634180Z5?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

8. https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-4054322.htm
Same as above.

55 table, 61.6 depth, 35 crown, 40.6 pavilion & 75 LGF.

Again, virtual inventory and available at other sources for slightly less money (starting around $8,300 via wire). Proportions look good; however, that clarity plot makes my chest tighten. It's ugly.

Also, if you look at the Adiamor link below, you can see a video. Notice how much crap you see on the stone? I just don't like this one and would pass because of clarity concerns.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R155-62Z280362?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.55-carat-i-si1-yd4280607

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....1&b=8.757&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

 

[sledge]

Sorry Sledge, one last question. I misread your reply last time and thought you said "It just so happened that the 1.53 carat was that stone" [regarding which stone is better value]. I now realise you didn't say that, and instead said "If it just so happened..."
So, I'm just wondering which you think is the better option? I know the 1.44 stone is better value in terms of price per carat, but is anything else at play in this specific comparison? They have the same colour, cut and clarity and beyond that I don't know enough about diamonds to compare them.

No worries. I actually think both stones are awesome. I think the 1.442 might have a tad more fire (to my eyes) looking at WF's videos and I think it has to do with the ever so slight smaller table.

However, it also appears to me the 1.53ct is a smidge whiter in the videos. Also, I love how the arrows contrast on the 1.53. They seem to pop more than the arrows on the 1.442 to my eyes. I tried to grab a screen capture to illustrate what I mean.

I think both stones are worth having WF pull and compare side by side. I'd be interested to hear their thoughts with human eyes on the actual stones and not on technology where so many elements could create a false illusion.

Clearly, both are top notch performers and there isn't a bad choice to be made. Part of the equation is money and if there is $1,000 of difference in the stones to you. If there are no money issues I'd be tempted to snag the 1.53ct myself.

1.442 ct


1.53ct

 

[WallaForPM]

Oh I didn’t even know this was an option. Thanks so much, have sent them an email about it now

@WallaForPM I would have WF take pics of both and let you see them on someone's hand in a few different lighting situations. I bet you'll be drawn to one over the other (or literally won't care, in which case go for less $$). Both are great, I would let your eyes/heart choose

 

[WallaForPM]

Wow! This would’ve taken up a a significantly amount of you time! Thanks so much for this.
So I’ve axed all the virtual stones in my searches, and excluding stones 1 & 2 I think the other 2 are better options.

I know I promised my previous question was my last question, but I’ve just come across another stone.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3872119.htm

It’s a K in colour but works out to be $6,143 per carat (I think). Is this one good? All the specs seem to fall in the correct zones.

54.9 table, 61.9 depth, 34.6 crown, 40.7 pavilion & 76 LGF

Wowsas....a freakin' firecracker!! Small table and IMO just awesome proportions. Look at the video and watch it do the magical sparkle dance. Amazing!

Also part of the ACA collection so great upgrades, all the performance images, etc.




55 table, 62.4 depth, 34.5 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF

Again....wowsas. Dreamy proportions. This is a great find from WF's PS line. The ASET, idealscope and H&A images look fantastic! It's GIA certified which is why it received the PS moniker; however, I think there is little doubt this would go as an Ideal 0 cut if presented to AGS labs. You get all the good stuff of the ACA line with a discount for the PS. An excellent bang for the buck!

FYI, I think it may have missed the ACA requirements as it's GIA certified (as opposed to AGS) and also the depth is pushing the max at 62.4. But clearly the stone is a performer and this is NOT a reason to reject.

You actually get a color bump and slight size increase over the first one




55 table, 61.5 depth, 33 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 75 LGF

This is the first stone you've linked that is part of "virtual inventory". What this means is that the stone is cut and housed by a supplier that is normally overseas. Multiple retailers such as WF, Yadav, BN, Adiamor, etc will have access to the stone. As such, each retailer will have different relationships with each supplier and will price the stone differently so it's possible to find the same identical stone with a different retailer for less money.

FYI, we frequently talk about WF and their awesomeness. You need to be clear that awesomeness is based on their IN-HOUSE stones that fall under the A Cut Above (ACA), Expert Select (ES) and Premium Select (PS) monikers. The ACA/ES/PS stones are housed in WF's vault and comes with complete grading certificates, performance & symmetry images, trade-in policies, buy-back policies, etc.

Virtual inventory stones are an entirely different beast and may or may not be up to the standards of WF's in-house product lines.

All that said, this stone is virtual inventory and available at 3 other vendors. Using wire, you can obtain for as little as $7,150. I am not a fan of the shallow 33 crown & 40.8 pavilion as the crown is too shallow. We want to stay at 34 or above.

If you look at the ED site, you will see this stone actually has a pretty good ASET. But OMG, look at the hearts image! I'd pass on this stone.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R140-29Z8Z7146?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.4-carat-j-vs1-yd4302533

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....1&b=7.487&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc




55.3 table, 61.8 depth, 34.8 crown, 40.8 pavilion & 76 LGF

Again, gorgeous proportions and great images to back it up. Of course, this is an ACA so perfection is expected. The video looks great and I see no reason not to consider this stone. Looking at the video, it's rather apparent it's a sparkle bomb!




57 table, 62 depth, 35.5 crown, 41 pavilion & 80 LGF

More virtual inventory. Not sure why the GIA cert is not listed, but the stone is also available on FourMine for $9,340 wire. The steep 35.5 crown does not pair well with a steep 41 pavilion angle so I would pass on this one myself.

https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/95992462?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2018




57 table, 61.6 depth, 34 crown, 41.2 pavilion & 80 LGF

Again, virtual inventory. Price is now $11,605 wire -- not sure what it was when you originally posted. Overall, the right idea trying to pair a shallow crown with a steep pavilion but IMO the 41.2 is a little too steep. I'd like to see 40.9, or maybe 41 as the max pavilion with that 34 crown.

Also, shallower crowns produce more white light and less rainbow light. The 80 LGF's do the same thing along with making it look splintery vs big bold flashes of rainbow. My point is the characteristic of this stone will be one that produces lots of white light vs big bold rainbow flashes (fire).

Again, alternate sources for just slightly less money.

https://www.fourmine.com/shop/diamond/98331179?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=2018

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.56-carat-g-si1-yd4008522




56 table, 61.9 depth, 35 crown, 40.8 pavilion and 75 LGF

Another virtual inventory. Proportions may work. I'd like to see a shallower 40.6 pavilion paired with that steep 35 crown, but depending on cut quality, etc a 40.8 pavilion can work. It is available elsewhere for a little cheaper.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R160-7634180Z5?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc




55 table, 61.6 depth, 35 crown, 40.6 pavilion & 75 LGF.

Again, virtual inventory and available at other sources for slightly less money (starting around $8,300 via wire). Proportions look good; however, that clarity plot makes my chest tighten. It's ugly.

Also, if you look at the Adiamor link below, you can see a video. Notice how much crap you see on the stone? I just don't like this one and would pass because of clarity concerns.

https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R155-62Z280362?utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

https://www.yadavjewelry.com/diamond/round-diamond-1.55-carat-i-si1-yd4280607

https://www.adiamor.com/Diamonds/1....1&b=8.757&utm_source=rarecarat&utm_medium=cpc

 

[sledge]

Wow! This would’ve taken up a a significantly amount of you time! Thanks so much for this.
So I’ve axed all the virtual stones in my searches, and excluding stones 1 & 2 I think the other 2 are better options.

I know I promised my previous question was my last question, but I’ve just come across another stone.
https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3872119.htm

It’s a K in colour but works out to be $6,143 per carat (I think). Is this one good? All the specs seem to fall in the correct zones.

No problem. It didn't take that long, and glad to have helped.

Also, feel free to keep asking all the questions you want before pulling the trigger. Just remember, this is a PUBLIC forum meaning others can view our posts and links. If there is a stone you are seriously considering that has been discussed I would encourage you to place it on hold while you make a final decision so someone doesn't poach it from underneath you.

I have no problem analyzing the new stone, but I think it's important you understand the ACA stones are WF's super ideal stones. This means they will have AGS certification with 000 ideal certification, be a true hearts & arrows (H&A) precision cut stone, have the finest cutting available and will have all performance (ASET & idealscope) and symmetry (H&A) images available to confirm it's awesomeness.

Each stone will have it's own unique proportions but overall, they will meet the broad term of ideal cut and will be a stunner. It really is like hitting an easy button in the fact you could choose any of them and have a winner as long as it meets your size, color & clarity requirements.

That said, each stone also has it's own unique personality. Some might have a little more fire, or more white light. Neither is right or wrong, but rather a preference. When we see a particular ACA or other super ideal stone that meets our own preferences, we tend to get a little excited.

The K stone in question will hit the sweet spot for many. It has a small 55.4 table coupled with steep 35 crown and shallow, and very complimentary, 40.6 pavilion. That small table in combo with the steep crown will throw lots of fire, and be a sparkle fireball! Additionally you get VS1 clarity which I absolutely love (yet don't like to pay for).

For me, the concern would be the color. Some people are cool with K. And I'm sure this stone will face up nice & white overall but I do think you will see a tint when looking at the stone from the side (which is normal, as that is where tint is observed). I really prefer the other end of the spectrum so I'd want to see how this compares against the 1.44 and 1.53 J's that has already been discussed. Again, WF can pull all 3 and give an in-depth evaluation. It's possible the K is nearly a J so maybe there isn't much difference.

I guess my question back to you would be are you trying to get a larger size, get to a certain threshold on dollars per carat (btw $6,143/carat was correct), etc. Have you seen an H/I/J/K colored stone in-person? Are you okay with them? While I love this larger K stone, the color has to be considered in your final analysis and only you know if it is okay or not.

 

[WallaForPM]

Oh yeah I completely forgot about that! Okay I think I will ask to put the 1.53 ct stone on hold, just in case.

Yeh after reading a few forums I realised the ACA stones were generally pretty good, which is why I thought to run it by you

To be honest what's making this so challenging is I don't really have preferences. I would wear whatever stone, even those poorly cut ones I linked in my very first post. My only motivation for posting here is to make sure I find something a stone that is good value and worth the cost.

When I went into a chain store that had a 1.0ct stone for 20k, the lady said it was so expensive because it was a K or I colour, I can't remember which, whereas the majority of the stones they stock were M-N. I don't remember this stone's colour being particularly more impressive than the others (but it was cut poorly which could be at play).

In another chain store they had their 'Whitefire' collection which had diamonds that were D, E, F and I don't remember thinking they were more impressive than anything I'd seen either. I guess I'm not too fussed about diamonds in general, so I didn't notice a difference (that mattered to me). They definitely did look more icy white, and even blueish, but I was indifferent to this look, I might've even preferred it less than the warmer colours.

I think the safer option will be the J 1.53ct, but if I can get to any jewellery store in the next few days and see a K in person I can determine if it makes a difference to me.

Again I'm not really too worried about the larger size, but as someone who knows very little about diamonds I've always associated size with a diamond being nice. I now understand cut is way more important, but because I'm still in the ACA stone range I thought it might've been good value.

I think the only thing I can do from here is get some pictures of all 3 of the diamonds from WF, and get into a shop and have a look at some J and K diamonds a bit more critically.

No problem. It didn't take that long, and glad to have helped.

Also, feel free to keep asking all the questions you want before pulling the trigger. Just remember, this is a PUBLIC forum meaning others can view our posts and links. If there is a stone you are seriously considering that has been discussed I would encourage you to place it on hold while you make a final decision so someone doesn't poach it from underneath you.

I have no problem analyzing the new stone, but I think it's important you understand the ACA stones are WF's super ideal stones. This means they will have AGS certification with 000 ideal certification, be a true hearts & arrows (H&A) precision cut stone, have the finest cutting available and will have all performance (ASET & idealscope) and symmetry (H&A) images available to confirm it's awesomeness.

Each stone will have it's own unique proportions but overall, they will meet the broad term of ideal cut and will be a stunner. It really is like hitting an easy button in the fact you could choose any of them and have a winner as long as it meets your size, color & clarity requirements.

That said, each stone also has it's own unique personality. Some might have a little more fire, or more white light. Neither is right or wrong, but rather a preference. When we see a particular ACA or other super ideal stone that meets our own preferences, we tend to get a little excited.

The K stone in question will hit the sweet spot for many. It has a small 55.4 table coupled with steep 35 crown and shallow, and very complimentary, 40.6 pavilion. That small table in combo with the steep crown will throw lots of fire, and be a sparkle fireball! Additionally you get VS1 clarity which I absolutely love (yet don't like to pay for).

For me, the concern would be the color. Some people are cool with K. And I'm sure this stone will face up nice & white overall but I do think you will see a tint when looking at the stone from the side (which is normal, as that is where tint is observed). I really prefer the other end of the spectrum so I'd want to see how this compares against the 1.44 and 1.53 J's that has already been discussed. Again, WF can pull all 3 and give an in-depth evaluation. It's possible the K is nearly a J so maybe there isn't much difference.

I guess my question back to you would be are you trying to get a larger size, get to a certain threshold on dollars per carat (btw $6,143/carat was correct), etc. Have you seen an H/I/J/K colored stone in-person? Are you okay with them? While I love this larger K stone, the color has to be considered in your final analysis and only you know if it is okay or not.

 

[bmfang]

@WallaForPM : Michael Hill’s stones are ridiculously overpriced. I went window shopping there a year ago and I had a sales associate try to tell me that a 1ct I SI2 good cut diamond (graded by GSI) set in 14kt white gold was as good as I could find for AUD$10k. When I asked her what the difference was between that good cut and another that was graded as having an excellent cut (graded by an Australian lab, ADGL who also do grading for stones sold by Shiels) but also a 1ct K SI2 set in the same 14kt white gold for AUD$11.5k, she said that the two terms were interchangeable.

The vast majority of staff there are in it for sales commissions and they have very little knowledge of the items they are selling.

As for their Whitefire range, I have always found it hilarious that the ads I’ve seen on big posters show an incredibly colourless diamond, but the first thing I actually notice are the clusters of black crystals throughout the body of the stone. Yes, you’ll pay for body colour for that stone but you certainly aren’t getting good eye clean stones based off that ad! Maybe they’ve since changed the stone they use in their ads, but I’ve never been able to forget that first time I saw a whitefire ad.

I think in Victoria, another family owned chain is Salera’s (who also have a few stores up here in Brisbane). They tend to sell EGL USA graded stones as well as “Rand” diamonds. Both aren’t worth the money unless you bargain very hard (but again, in house grading and EGL USA grading are red flags for me).

I think Mazzuchelli’s is also in Victoria as well from memory and their stuff is slightly better quality though I’ve mainly seen overpriced Forevermark diamonds at their one store up here in Brisbane.

 

[sledge]

Oh yeah I completely forgot about that! Okay I think I will ask to put the 1.53 ct stone on hold, just in case.

Yeh after reading a few forums I realised the ACA stones were generally pretty good, which is why I thought to run it by you

To be honest what's making this so challenging is I don't really have preferences. I would wear whatever stone, even those poorly cut ones I linked in my very first post. My only motivation for posting here is to make sure I find something a stone that is good value and worth the cost.

When I went into a chain store that had a 1.0ct stone for 20k, the lady said it was so expensive because it was a K or I colour, I can't remember which, whereas the majority of the stones they stock were M-N. I don't remember this stone's colour being particularly more impressive than the others (but it was cut poorly which could be at play).

In another chain store they had their 'Whitefire' collection which had diamonds that were D, E, F and I don't remember thinking they were more impressive than anything I'd seen either. I guess I'm not too fussed about diamonds in general, so I didn't notice a difference (that mattered to me). They definitely did look more icy white, and even blueish, but I was indifferent to this look, I might've even preferred it less than the warmer colours.

I think the safer option will be the J 1.53ct, but if I can get to any jewellery store in the next few days and see a K in person I can determine if it makes a difference to me.

Again I'm not really too worried about the larger size, but as someone who knows very little about diamonds I've always associated size with a diamond being nice. I now understand cut is way more important, but because I'm still in the ACA stone range I thought it might've been good value.

I think the only thing I can do from here is get some pictures of all 3 of the diamonds from WF, and get into a shop and have a look at some J and K diamonds a bit more critically.

Good call getting the 1.53ct on hold.

I am not sure who had an I/K colored 1 carat stone for $20k but that is highway robbery! I am so glad you found this forum and we can help guide you to a beautiful stone that is more reasonably priced.

You mentioned an important piece of your previous search history -- about the higher colored D/E/F stones that were icy white and "bluish" and how you may have even preferred them less than the warmer stones. This is GREAT information! This tells us you are probably okay with the J/K color range you are looking at. Many buyers are just the opposite so J/K colors can be tricky.

Still, I think it's worth seeing some J/K colored stones in-person just to make sure. When viewing, be sure to look at either AGS or GIA certified stones only. Also, if looking at GIA stones then go ahead and view an L color as well. I suggest this because as you get lower in the color ranges you have variance across the same color range and color grading is done by humans so it's subjective. Consequently some people believe AGS grades "softer" than GIA on these color ranges. By looking at a GIA L, and assuming you are okay with it, you take away possible disappointment in case there is some variance.

Here is a new link with the 3 stones in question. Without doubt, these all have ideal proportions and are amongst the best cut stones available. You simply cannot make a bad choice with any of them. I like this view because it compares them all in a single screen.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3872119,4022605,3970293

If I were buying...

• First choice would be 1.73ct assuming K was acceptable and I had no qualms with maxing out the budget. The size and clarity bump is very nice!
• Second choice would be 1.53ct J if the K stone had too much tint, and I was okay maxing out the budget.
• Third choice would be the 1.44ct J if the K stone had too much tint and I didn't want to max the budget out.

 

[bmfang]

Still, I think it's worth seeing some J/K colored stones in-person just to make sure. When viewing, be sure to look at either AGS or GIA certified stones only. Also, if looking at GIA stones then go ahead and view an L color as well. I suggest this because as you get lower in the color ranges you have variance across the same color range and color grading is done by humans so it's subjective. Consequently some people believe AGS grades "softer" than GIA on these color ranges. By looking at a GIA L, and assuming you are okay with it, you take away possible disappointment in case there is some variance.

@sledge , where the OP lives, it’s difficult to find graded stones period unless she goes to chain stores which use sub-par labs (therefore comparisons with GIA graded stones are sketchy at best). The closest would be Garry Holloway’s store given she lives in the same state (unless there is an independent jeweller in regional Victoria near her who is willing to call in a stone for her).

Finding an AGS graded stone here in Australia at a B&M store is nigh on impossible unless you are using certain diamond brokers who would search through virtual inventory. GIA, IGI and EGL USA have most of the market share here (in terms of reputable labs, though I find that a stretch for EGL USA). Most independent jewellers I have spoken to up here in Brisbane don’t know about AGS and insist that GIA is the best. Most chains use sub-par labs (GSI, Solitaire labs, ADGL, insert random letter combinations).

 

[sledge]

@sledge , where the OP lives, it’s difficult to find graded stones period unless she goes to chain stores which use sub-par labs (therefore comparisons with GIA graded stones are sketchy at best). The closest would be Garry Holloway’s store given she lives in the same state (unless there is an independent jeweller in regional Victoria near her who is willing to call in a stone for her).

Finding an AGS graded stone here in Australia at a B&M store is nigh on impossible unless you are using certain diamond brokers who would search through virtual inventory. GIA, IGI and EGL USA have most of the market share here. Most independent jewellers I have spoken to up here in Brisbane don’t know about AGS and insist that GIA is the best.

Gotcha. Then having WF pull and do some side by side pictures and videos would be the next best option.

Looking at the still pictures the 1.53ct (J1) appears most white to me. The 1.44ct (J2) appears second most white to me. The 1.73ct (K) appears to have the most tint. None of them are extremely bad.



Here is some additional data on color that may be helpful:

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/the-4-cs-color.htm

 

[WallaForPM]

It was 20k AUD, so only $14,500 USD, but after looking at some of the online vendors it still struck me as overpriced. Especially if you saw the cut, I knew even less at the time but it was really cloudy and opaque, which I don't really care about but I knew that it wasn't very high quality. The lady also didn't know the cut grade, she just kept saying it was round and there was no such thing as cut grade (it was a chain store in a shopping centre).

Oh okay thats quite handy then, I have dark skin with warm undertones so I've always preferred warmer colours in general. I actually even prefer gold jewellery but everyone I know wears white gold and I can always change the band further down the track.

Thanks so much that link is super helpful! I've been trying to swap between tabs and I keep losing track haha

Good call getting the 1.53ct on hold.

I am not sure who had an I/K colored 1 carat stone for $20k but that is highway robbery! I am so glad you found this forum and we can help guide you to a beautiful stone that is more reasonably priced.

You mentioned an important piece of your previous search history -- about the higher colored D/E/F stones that were icy white and "bluish" and how you may have even preferred them less than the warmer stones. This is GREAT information! This tells us you are probably okay with the J/K color range you are looking at. Many buyers are just the opposite so J/K colors can be tricky.

Still, I think it's worth seeing some J/K colored stones in-person just to make sure. When viewing, be sure to look at either AGS or GIA certified stones only. Also, if looking at GIA stones then go ahead and view an L color as well. I suggest this because as you get lower in the color ranges you have variance across the same color range and color grading is done by humans so it's subjective. Consequently some people believe AGS grades "softer" than GIA on these color ranges. By looking at a GIA L, and assuming you are okay with it, you take away possible disappointment in case there is some variance.

Here is a new link with the 3 stones in question. Without doubt, these all have ideal proportions and are amongst the best cut stones available. You simply cannot make a bad choice with any of them. I like this view because it compares them all in a single screen.

https://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3872119,4022605,3970293

If I were buying...

• First choice would be 1.73ct assuming K was acceptable and I had no qualms with maxing out the budget. The size and clarity bump is very nice!
• Second choice would be 1.53ct J if the K stone had too much tint, and I was okay maxing out the budget.
• Third choice would be the 1.44ct J if the K stone had too much tint and I didn't want to max the budget out.

 

[WallaForPM]

These are awesome thanks so much! In the picture of the 3 stones I'm looking at I can definitely see a difference but don't actually find any more desirable than the others.

In the side view of all the stones, I'm drawn to the G-I stones and can see why J and K are seen as undesirable. But the setting will be 6 prongs, which will cover a bit of the side, and I can't imagine I'll view it from the side that often. I'll try and get in to a store to check it out.

In the last picture of the D, H, K stones, I can see the difference but again don't really have a preference for any. I'd be happy with any of those colours.

Gotcha. Then having WF pull and do some side by side pictures and videos would be the next best option.

Looking at the still pictures the 1.53ct (J1) appears most white to me. The 1.44ct (J2) appears second most white to me. The 1.73ct (K) appears to have the most tint. None of them are extremely bad.



Here is some additional data on color that may be helpful:

https://www.whiteflash.com/about-diamonds/diamond-education/the-4-cs-color.htm

 

[WallaForPM]

Do these make a difference to anyone? I imagine they use incredible lighting so it’s hard to see a difference between any of them. I like them all.

 

[WallaForPM]

Sorry bmfang, somehow didn’t even see this!
Yeh Michael Hill’s is incredibly overpriced, and the stones are so dull looking.

Yep I also found the whitefire range to be unimpressive looking, I didn’t look closely enough but reflecting on it, obviously the other 3 Cs were clearly lacking.

I haven’t seen any of those stores around, which was probably a good thing because I think I would’ve settled for any somewhat decent stone before arriving to PS

@WallaForPM : Michael Hill’s stones are ridiculously overpriced. I went window shopping there a year ago and I had a sales associate try to tell me that a 1ct I SI2 good cut diamond (graded by GSI) set in 14kt white gold was as good as I could find for AUD$10k. When I asked her what the difference was between that good cut and another that was graded as having an excellent cut (graded by an Australian lab, ADGL who also do grading for stones sold by Shiels) but also a 1ct K SI2 set in the same 14kt white gold for AUD$11.5k, she said that the two terms were interchangeable.

The vast majority of staff there are in it for sales commissions and they have very little knowledge of the items they are selling.

As for their Whitefire range, I have always found it hilarious that the ads I’ve seen on big posters show an incredibly colourless diamond, but the first thing I actually notice are the clusters of black crystals throughout the body of the stone. Yes, you’ll pay for body colour for that stone but you certainly aren’t getting good eye clean stones based off that ad! Maybe they’ve since changed the stone they use in their ads, but I’ve never been able to forget that first time I saw a whitefire ad.

I think in Victoria, another family owned chain is Salera’s (who also have a few stores up here in Brisbane). They tend to sell EGL USA graded stones as well as “Rand” diamonds. Both aren’t worth the money unless you bargain very hard (but again, in house grading and EGL USA grading are red flags for me).

I think Mazzuchelli’s is also in Victoria as well from memory and their stuff is slightly better quality though I’ve mainly seen overpriced Forevermark diamonds at their one store up here in Brisbane.

 

[lovedogs]

@WallaForPM ohh I like all 3! If it were me, I would Max out size and get the K. I honestly don't see a difference between pics of the j/k from what you posted, so why not just get the biggest? But of course totally up to you!

Of the J choices, my eye is drawn to the 1.5 more than the 1.4, but only by a smidge!

 

[chamois]

All 3 are lovely. I would go for the largest K. Your happy choice tho

 

[WallaForPM]

Yep I agree completely! I thought the middle J 1.5 was going to stand out to me a lot more but I’m actually probably drawn to the K because of the size. I’d be happy with either of them, now I just need to hope they aren’t snapped up before next week when we can purchase one

@WallaForPM ohh I like all 3! If it were me, I would Max out size and get the K. I honestly don't see a difference between pics of the j/k from what you posted, so why not just get the biggest? But of course totally up to you!

Of the J choices, my eye is drawn to the 1.5 more than the 1.4, but only by a smidge!

 

[WallaForPM]

Yep I think that’s the way to go.
Buying it might depend on if I’m willing to drop down on the price of the ring though.

This is my preference
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...fany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-3581.htm

This is one of their cheapest options
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ffany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-582.htm

The band on the second is slightly thicker at 2.3mm vs 1.6-2mm on the first. So perhaps the thicker band would negate any visual differences seen on a bigger stone.
Do you think 2.3mm is thick relative to modern trends?

All 3 are lovely. I would go for the largest K. Your happy choice tho

 

[lovedogs]

Yep I agree completely! I thought the middle J 1.5 was going to stand out to me a lot more but I’m actually probably drawn to the K because of the size. I’d be happy with either of them, now I just need to hope they aren’t snapped up before next week when we can purchase one

Can you request that you hold at least one of them for you guys? I would hate to see them both purchased before you can buy!

 

[sledge]

Yep I think that’s the way to go.
Buying it might depend on if I’m willing to drop down on the price of the ring though.

This is my preference
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...fany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-3581.htm

This is one of their cheapest options
https://www.whiteflash.com/engageme...ffany-style-solitaire-engagement-ring-582.htm

The band on the second is slightly thicker at 2.3mm vs 1.6-2mm on the first. So perhaps the thicker band would negate any visual differences seen on a bigger stone.
Do you think 2.3mm is thick relative to modern trends?

First off, the 1.73 K is awesome. With the additional pictures, that would be my choice!

For the setting, look closely at the heads. The Tiffany repro is soooo much better and eloquent IMO and worth the extra $500 IMO.

If you want the 1.73, ask WF to place on-hold while you get your funding in-place.

 

[WallaForPM]

I think they can only hold things for 24 hours, so I'll try and do that every few days (I can't imagine they'll let me keep doing it constantly) and just pray no one snags it

Can you request that you hold at least one of them for you guys? I would hate to see them both purchased before you can buy!