Depressed -- fiance''s brother just engaged and announced plans to marry a couple months before us

[Maria D]

Date: 9/29/2006 3:54:11 PM
Author: ellewoods
Regarding the save the dates --

I just feel like every single thing is going to be compared between these 2 weddings, and once friends and family hear about both, and hear that brother's wedding is first, WE will look like the copy-cats, when we aren't the copy-cats. It will be like 'Oh look, younger brother sent us a wedding invitation for a destination wedding in June. How nice.' And then they get ours second, 'Oh now look, older brother sent us a wedding invitation for a destination wedding in October. Well, I guess he decided to take the plunge too because his brother did. He's following in his younger brother's footsteps. And it's a destination wedding too. How cute, its a trend.'

I think the least they could allow us is for us to send our save the dates first, even if first by a couple of days, because I certainly don't want anyone to have the impression that our wedding is the copy-cat wedding.

I've been to a ton of weddings and only one destination wedding. Everyone at the dest. wedding knew the couple extremely well. They knew when the couple got engaged. They knew when the wedding was planned and, in these same circumstances, would have known who planned first.

Are things *that* different on the west coast? Do people really hop on a plane to Mexico for a couple that they don't even know all that well -- like the wedding I went to a couple of months ago when my husband's co-worker got married and we had never even met the bride (I had only met the groom twice)?

edited to add: Is the real problem that you're worried yours will look copy-cat -- or -- are you just p.o.'d because you feel THEY have no right to copy-cat? If it's the latter, you really have to let this go IF you want to be happy. If you want to keep stewing, and making your engagement period miserable (cold stares at Thanksgiving and all that), fine -- but it's YOU that loses.

 

[ellewoods]

ALJ,

I know, I know, I can insist all I want and it will accomplish nothing. There is just no up-side I can come up with for being in this situation!

Is it really OK to send out save the dates with just the date and "Mexico" on them? I wanted to wait until we had things officially confirmed (date, location, hotel). I would hate to announce that its in Mexico on a certin date in the save the date cards, but then for some reason we have to change the date, or change the location, or even go somewhere different in Mexico. So I was planning on sending them at the beginning of December. Does that give people enough notice? I wanted to give 1 year notice but we won''t know the specifics until the end of November. December gives 10-11 months notice, which I hope is enough.

An update on talking with fiance''s brother, I emailed him earlier and he replied. I do appreciate that he''s at least aknowledging that its an issue,

"We know this is tough, and that is why she even came up with the idea of rushing to get the wedding done in June rather than August, to hopefully give you and my brother some peace of mind that they are going to be totally different and that they will both be great weddings."

I''ve got to vent again -- I appreciate his communication, but the "rushing to get the wedding done" part bugs me. Like its some huge sacrifice for them to consider a month other than August, especially one earlier -- I mean if anything, it''d be a sacrifice for them to consider any month after ours. Having a June wedding certainly isn''t any kind of sacrifice -- its the most popular wedding month! And why did they even suggest August then -- knowing how bad August would be? Maybe they had always planned for June, but thought they''d suggest August first and when we got upset (which was bound to happen), they''d suggest June and we''d be so relieved we''d be OK with them marrying first. Hmmm... OK, venting over.

I know you guys will point this out, so I''ll agree in advance, June is better than August. But November would be even better. Or December. Or June or August 2008!

(Remember, I''m here venting).

 

[indecisive]

Date: 9/29/2006 6:26:21 PM
Author: ellewoods
So I was planning on sending them at the beginning of December. Does that give people enough notice? I wanted to give 1 year notice but we won''t know the specifics until the end of November. December gives 10-11 months notice, which I hope is enough.

An update on talking with fiance''s brother, I emailed him earlier and he replied. I do appreciate that he''s at least aknowledging that its an issue,

''We know this is tough, and that is why she even came up with the idea of rushing to get the wedding done in June rather than August, to hopefully give you and my brother some peace of mind that they are going to be totally different and that they will both be great weddings.''

I''ve got to vent again -- I appreciate his communication, but the ''rushing to get the wedding done'' part bugs me. Like its some huge sacrifice for them to consider a month other than August, especially one earlier -- I mean if anything, it''d be a sacrifice for them to consider any month after ours. Having a June wedding certainly isn''t any kind of sacrifice -- its the most popular wedding month! And why did they even suggest August then -- knowing how bad August would be? Maybe they had always planned for June, but thought they''d suggest August first and when we got upset (which was bound to happen), they''d suggest June and we''d be so relieved we''d be OK with them marrying first. Hmmm... OK, venting over.

I know you guys will point this out, so I''ll agree in advance, June is better than August. But November would be even better. Or December. Or June or August 2008!

(Remember, I''m here venting).

June being the most popular wedding month could make it way worse for planning. Almost every reception site I have looked at is already booked for every weekend in May and June and they might not get to have their first choice on a lot of vendors by having it in June. I think you should be happy they are having it so far away from your wedding and let all the hostility go and enjoy your planning and wedding. I got engaged first and picked the date first and my FI''s cousin who we are close to is getting married the same month as we are. At first I was a little apprehensive about it being so close but they are having a different type wedding than we are (like your FSIL is having a lake wedding and you are having a wedding in Mexico which is very different) so I don''t see how people would confuse the two. My best friend who is like my sister was also going to get married 2 weeks after us and all we could think of was how fun it would be to plan together. Wanting a 4 month buffer really does sound what little kids do when they want their special birthday treatment all week rather than just the day. Enjoy your wedding and don''t worry about what she does.

 

[bravesfan]

Hey elle-

I am sorry that this is happening. I know that it is upsetting to you that they are going to have thier wedding first but look at the bright side--- if you are sending out the save the dates first people will be able to start planning/saving for your wedding before they get the save the date for their wedding!

heehee!

Feel free to vent when ever, we are here to listen...

The best of luck... and dont worry, afterall your wedding is about you and your sweetie and in the end nothing can change that

 

[cara]

Date: 9/29/2006 3:41:57 PM
Author: ellewoods
I agree with you and your friend, obviously she isn''t thinking about my wedding or anything except for her wedding. It''s just a difficult, sticky situation in that the weddings of 2 brothers may potentially be on top of each other in a way that will negatively effect the second wedding -- whomever''s it is.

Why will only the SECOND wedding be negatively affected? You think your guests are that naive? "Oh, I was at a wedding for this family a few months ago. Another one already? How boring." No, your wedding WILL be different. Tahoe, Mexico - different. Many other wedding details can (will) be different.

In the end, somewhere down the line, I was have to accept this and move on. And I am trying, but it is difficult. Even for people who disagree with me that I would like them to wait until after our wedding -- if you were me in this situation, and your fiance''s brother decided to get married 1-4 months BEFORE the wedding you''d already started to plan -- wouldn''t you be a bit peeved? Regardless if its rational or logical or ''justified '' -- I think most people would be peeved. Especially the shorter time there is between the 2 .

OK, here we go again. Why does your desire to go first trump her desire to marry before age 30? Your desire might be completely understandable, but in my mind its just as silly as her justification. Ettiquette says you get ONE DAY. Not a wedding season. And, how you handle this will affect how people see the situation much more than what order your STDs go out in. (Do NOT ask them to hold their STDs. Just send yours as early as possible.)

Family story: I am one of 4 female first cousins engaged this year. Two are sisters. Younger one announces her engagement to medium-term boyfriend, plans 1+ year engagement. Next month, older sister announces her engagement to short term boyfriend with short engagement, thereby beating her younger sister to the punch. Younger sister feels strongly cut in on, father of two brides sees red $$ (probably affecting his decision to not attend my far-away wedding, but whatever). Everyone feels for younger sister UNTIL she makes derogatory comments about older sister''s wedding plans. Even though younger sister clearly will have to share both attention and $$ with her older sister, family members were sympathetic to her a bit, but not enough to put up with the idea that she really gets to reserve the whole year. Her older sister wants to get married, she''s allowed to get married. Money available from father is finite, sisters must share.

So I guess the moral here is that while your feelings are legitimate, at some point you must also show happiness for the other couple and some perspective on the situation to get points for it. Do whatever you need to to allow yourself to emotionally recover from this hurt, but ... Weddings are celebrations. Weddings are celebrations. Your celebration will not be less for the existance of a preceding celebration months earlier.

And yes, we''ll be family, and married to the men we love, etc. But this situation has most definitely changed my feelings towards this woman and I don''t feel going forward in life with her around that she will have anyone''s interests at heart except for hers. This situation also confirms my skepticism about her and her motives. I think my future-brother-in-law is in for a rocky road with this woman, and I feel sorry for him.

Also, I am troubled by how much you keep blaming the other woman. Maybe she was rude and insensitive to you previously, but FBIL chose her and is backing up her decisions. Something in him attracts him to her. Maybe it isn''t pretty - but there it is.

Second story: A friend of mine was nice, intelligent, lots of good qualities but his girlfriend was a piece of work. Manipulative, argumentative, would belittle him in front of others. She pissed me off a couple of times before I was able to get some perspective and attribute her behavior to insecurity, etc., and be civil around her in group gatherings. It wasn''t until my friend (finally) dumped her, was single for a whole week, then got back together with an ex-girlfriend that was also a piece of work that a light bulb went off for me. He chooses these women. Something in him not only finds them attractive, but seeks out these qualities. So I need to factor that into my opinion OF HIM as a person.

 

[decodelighted]

Date: 9/29/2006 6:26:21 PM
Author: ellewoods
I appreciate his communication, but the ''rushing to get the wedding done'' part bugs me. Like its some huge sacrifice for them to consider a month other than August, especially one earlier. Having a June wedding certainly isn''t any kind of sacrifice -- its the most popular wedding month! And why did they even suggest August then -- knowing how bad August would be? Maybe they had always planned for June, but thought they''d suggest August first and when we got upset (which was bound to happen), they''d suggest June and we''d be so relieved we''d be OK with them marrying first. Hmmm... OK, venting over.

I know you''re venting but you''re not really giving the a way to "win" or even save face at this point. It IS a SACRIFICE for them to up the schedule two months. Why is it so wrong to phrase it as "rushing"?? There''s NOTHING they could do to please you right now and it really seems unreasonable to me. ANYTHING they do at your behest, or to smooth things over with you, that ISN''T what they''d pick if you didn''t EXIST ... is somewhat of a SACRIFICE. BTW: June, the most popular month, IS A NIGHTMARE. Good vendors etc are booked A YEAR ahead of time. At this point they''d be getting third, fourth, twentiest choice vendors IN EVERY CATERGORY. Geez, girl, you''re letting yourself spin everything as you''re the victim, they''re the bad guys NO MATTER WHAT they do. (And the "conspiracy theory" stuff? C''mon.)

FWIW -- the cover page of Weddingbee right now has someone''s save the dates that just say Sept 27 2007, Chicago. No specifics yet. So if you wanted to do that now, fine. If you want to make sure of the date after your trip, do that. I don''t know what the rush to be first is about anyway.

 

[Mara]

gosh elle honestly your last post with the minor vent in it about that one phrase....you sound so spoiled right now!! i hope you won't take total offense to that because i like you, but 'rushing to get the wedding' done offending you is just SILLY. it sounds like she is acknowledging how it might freak you out and she's even offering to MOVE her own wedding to give you a bit of peace of mind. who cares how they worded it, look beyond that (and honestly 'rushing to get the wedding done' is such an inoffensive phrase, that would be what it was...rushing because it's only like 8 months from now!) and be HAPPY they are offering you some sort of resolution so that you can feel betters. but wait, this is the totally selfish girl who JUST wanted to get married before 30? the one who you now dislike because she's causing all this strife and dares to get married within 60 days of you? this same girl, offering to move her wedding up 2 months right into hell june month and choose a whole new date, so that you have 4 months between hers and yours. gosh she doesn't sound THAT HORRIBLE after all. can we take off the red devil horns painted on her now?

jeez...there are surely more important things to worry about than if your new SIL, who will be your family come next year and probably end up babysitting your kids at some point, is having her wedding 2 months before yours, right? surely? drama people! its like people cannot live without it...so they have to have *something* that is dramatic. i'm not just saying this about this whole drama but gosh lately wedding plannings seem so FRAUGHT with issues!!

just so you know, if you were my girlfriend and you told me all of this, i would seriously have to slap some sense into you and tell you to GET OVER IT. i know it's easier said than done but literally every 5 minutes it seems you have some new reason to be irritated or not be over it yet. when will you be over it??? tell them that you think june sounds better than august. then let them do whatever they want! send your save the dates as soon as you can (and yes mexico only is fine. my cousin sent out STD's with their date, names and sonoma, california) so that maybe you can feel a little better. but seriously girl. have a drink!

 

[ellewoods]

My rush about save the dates is that because our wedding is in Mexico, I would like to give the guests as much notice as possible that they''re invited to our wedding, so if they actually want to go they have ample time to save money, or get time off from work, find babysitters if they need, etc. We''ll confirm the wedding location in Mexico in November, so I want to get the save the dates our in December -- giving guests around 10 months notice. And I''d like to give them even more notice than that if I could.

We haven''t done engagement announcements, and we decided to sort of combine announcements and save the dates -- put an engagement picture of some sort in the save the dates with the announcement, as well as the "save the date" announcement.

And it got me thinking that fiance''s brother will likely want to do save the dates soon, and I was thinking that I would really like it if we could send them first, since our save the date will be an engagement announcement too.

Look, I know that if they choose August, there''s nothing I can do about it. All I can hope for is that they actually do consider June and that their specifics are available then. It''s not up to me. I just feel really bummed about it, I''m disapointed that each couple won''t have more seperated engagemet and planning time, and I''m upset that brother''s fiance doesn''t care at all that we''re upset. Even if she wouldn''t change from August, even if she wouldn''t consider June...it would go a long, long way if she would have said something like "I did not choose this month to upset you but just to let you know, we are planning our wedding in August 2007, and that''s the way it is."

It wouldn''t magically fix everything, but it''d still help.

But, like many have pointed out, you shouldn''t expect anything out of people, or you''ll always be disapointed.

 

[ellewoods]

Thanks for the reality talk Mara.

I agree with you, I never understood why weddings had such drama, until now, but they do. Things feel very personal, words get taken out of context and misconstrued, and you feel slighted when someone "steals your thunder." I hate that phrase, but its appropriate in this situation. Sure, these feelings aren''t entirely logical, but they''re real, and I''m just venting to try and get it out of my system, so I CAN accept this and move on.

Just to clarify--fiance''s brother + his fiance haven''t "offered" to move their wedding to June. They said they might look into it. I appreciate them looking into it, and I told fiance''s brother that. A June wedding would definitely be better than an August wedding. But I''m still feeling bitter because they jumped the queue and their wedding now detracts from our wedding. That''s how I FEEL. And you can tell me all you want how wrong I am, or how illogical I am, or how selfish that is, but its how I feel right now and how you feel isn''t right or wrong it just exists.

Its your actions you take based on your feelings that can be right or wrong, and I haven''t done anything thus far except vent. And hopefully by venting here, I won''t act upon my hurt feelings and say something nasty to them.

 

[diamondfan]

Elle, you do not need to justify feeling bent. These are feelings, they are not based on rational or logical thought. Better to vent them here and then come up with a way to cope going forward, without a lot of drama, because she will part of things in the family. That is not to say you have to adore her or always have to give in, but the fact is, good or bad, this is HER personality so the only thing likely to change is how you deal with it. Try to see the bigger picture and do not let this get you too upset, vent here all you want but see if there are ways you can rechannel and rise above it. I know that puts a lot of the onus on you, but since I doubt she will be different no matter what you say to her, it seems the best way, for your sanity!!

 

[ephemery1]

Date: 9/29/2006 8:41:07 PM
Author: Mara

jeez...there are surely more important things to worry about than if your new SIL, who will be your family come next year and probably end up babysitting your kids at some point, is having her wedding 2 months before yours, right? surely? drama people! its like people cannot live without it...so they have to have *something* that is dramatic. i'm not just saying this about this whole drama but gosh lately wedding plannings seem so FRAUGHT with issues!!

Elle, I honestly feel in my heart that you are a kind, intelligent woman... and I like to think that I am too..... yet every time I look at this thread I just can't understand your reaction!! It's driving me half-insane trying to figure it out!

My perspective:
- Just because you got engaged first, does not mean any other family members getting engaged must plan their wedding after yours. They are allowed to choose a date that best suits their needs... even if you don't understand those needs... and even if it falls before the date that suits YOUR needs.
- Just because you and your future siblings might have weddings two months apart, does not mean it is automatically a bad thing!! It can be FUN planning weddings simultaneously... especially when they are both so unique!

I know you were enjoying being in the spotlight as the "bride" in the family... especially if you don't have your own family to enjoy that with. But it is a reality of being 20-something... other people are gonna get married... close friends, family members, coworkers, etc. I don't know ANYONE in my social circle right now who has the planning period all to themselves... and I don't know any guests who aren't attending multiple weddings in a 2 month period!! Nobody minds, and nobody compares... it's NOT a big deal. The important thing is that you're getting married to the person you love! And THAT'S what people remember. Not the color of the bridesmaids dresses or type of flowers or when the save-the-dates arrived.

Mara's comment above rings so true to me... in the grand scheme of things... is this REALLY what you want to focus your energy on? Yes, it's disappointing to have to give up your spot as first in line... I will be the first to admit that! But I am healthy and happy, my fiance is loving and wonderful, my family is supportive and sweet, my friends are thoughtful and fun, and I'm excited about my future! Do I still freak out about silly stuff? Of course! And Pricescope has been there to help me through it... but in the end, you just have to be willing to acknowledge when your emotions are just that... emotions.

I like you, Elle (as much as anyone can, from a few posts on a forum)... I want you to be at peace with this... and this resentment is NOT helping. Just be happy for your fiance's brother, be happy about your own wedding, and be grateful for all the things in your life that you have to be grateful for...... it is all about perspective.

 

[aljdewey]

Date: 9/29/2006 9:15:04 PM
Author: ellewoods
Thanks for the reality talk Mara.

I agree with you, I never understood why weddings had such drama, until now, but they do. Things feel very personal, words get taken out of context and misconstrued, and you feel slighted when someone ''steals your thunder.'' I hate that phrase, but its appropriate in this situation. Sure, these feelings aren''t entirely logical, but they''re real, and I''m just venting to try and get it out of my system, so I CAN accept this and move on.

Just to clarify--fiance''s brother + his fiance haven''t ''offered'' to move their wedding to June. They said they might look into it. I appreciate them looking into it, and I told fiance''s brother that. A June wedding would definitely be better than an August wedding. But I''m still feeling bitter because they jumped the queue and their wedding now detracts from our wedding. That''s how I FEEL. And you can tell me all you want how wrong I am, or how illogical I am, or how selfish that is, but its how I feel right now and how you feel isn''t right or wrong it just exists.

Its your actions you take based on your feelings that can be right or wrong, and I haven''t done anything thus far except vent. And hopefully by venting here, I won''t act upon my hurt feelings and say something nasty to them.

No, they haven''t offered to move it yet......but lemme tell ya, you should be grateful for the fact that they are even *considering* it. They don''t HAVE to.....they are doing it to try to compromise. And if you really have no other close family and value his family the way you say you do, then it''s time to pull yourself up and try to meet in the middle, too.....because if you don''t, you are most assuredly going to be the loser in this scenario.

I''m not saying you shouldn''t feel disappointed, Elle....not at all. Absolutely feel disappointed -- scream at the top of your lungs in the car until you''re hoarse, if that''s what it takes.

But then, you need to swallow that disappointment and find a graceful, mature way to handle it. You need to take a deep breath, click your heels together three times (a la Dorothy) and say:

I am not going to be first...........and it''s ok.
I am not going to be first...........and it''s ok.
I am not going to be first...........and it''s ok.

I don''t see you doing that. What I see is you trying to figure out how to plot so you can beat them to the punch on everything, how to snub your future SIL in every conceivable fashion, and how to completely ignore her.

I can totally get behind not including her in your wedding details (because after all, you don''t want more instances of both deciding an idea is a cool one, and then stepping on toes over who does it).

But Elle, this is the kind of fracture that can really drive a wedge in families, and from where I sit, SHE''S trying to make it better and you''re not. She''s trying to compromise, and you''re not. Unless you want to be perceived as the troublemaker, you have to find the strength to handle this disappointment. Even your FMIL understands your disappointment and has said "we don''t have to include them in site hunting". Everyone gets that you want some things that are yours. Take comfort in that, and CHOOSE to look at those positive signs instead of dwelling on your disappointment and letting it overwhelm you.

 

[Kaleigh]

Hi Elle, hang in there. I think everything will work out just fine. Maybe they will change their date and maybe they won''t. Nothing you can do really.... The people that truly love you and your fiancee will be there on your special day. I too come from a tiny family, so I know how that goes. HUGS!!!

 

[monarch64]

Elle, I haven''t responded to this thread yet because I had to really think about how I would react if I were in your position. What I''ve come up with is this: I think that in the real world we are so much less apt to display our true feelings, which can sometimes be labeled as "selfish," whereas here in "cyber space" we are pretty much more free to let go and vent and be our true selves. I think it''s a good thing that you came here and really let it all out, and I''d be willing to bet you would give anything not to feel the way you do. No one wants to admit that they have selfish or small feelings about others in reality, but here it is definitely easier to say what you really feel and get some really good advice.

I haven''t been in your position, but I can tell you that I think I would feel the same way, whether it''s right or wrong. I just read a very enlightening book, called "The Power of Now," by Ekhart Tolle...in it, one of the points the author makes is that your reaction to any situation is based on your feelings on the past or fears of the future. He also discusses in depth how to kind of live in the moment and not let past issues dictate your actions, or fears of the future do the same...it''s a really good book and I highly recommend it. Even if you don''t end up practicing any of the philosophies, it is a thought-provoking read if nothing else.

I do agree with some other posters to this thread who''ve said basically to not burn bridges. There is the brother issue, and also the SIL issue...you''re all going to be family by marriage and will probably have to deal with each other for years to come. I was thinking that if you follow the usual engagement/marriage/children path in life, there will also come a time when pregnancies occur--what will you do at that point? Will you be upset if your FSIL suddenly announces her pregnancy right after yours? Just food for thought; I''m not trying to add fuel to the fire here.

I have read posts of yours before, and they are always very well-put, and understandable. You''ve got so much going for you. Why, then, should you let someone else rain on your parade? You know the old saying (ok, I don''t know if it''s old, or even if it''s a well-known saying) "people will walk all over you if you let them"? Something to that effect, anyway...don''t let this person have this effect on you! I hope everything works out for the best for you and your FI...I''m glad you came here and got some things off your chest, though. Hopefully that will help you out in reality!

 

[Christa]

Date: 9/29/2006 3:54:11 PM
Author: ellewoods
Regarding the save the dates --

I just feel like every single thing is going to be compared between these 2 weddings, and once friends and family hear about both, and hear that brother''s wedding is first, WE will look like the copy-cats, when we aren''t the copy-cats. It will be like ''Oh look, younger brother sent us a wedding invitation for a destination wedding in June. How nice.'' And then they get ours second, ''Oh now look, older brother sent us a wedding invitation for a destination wedding in October. Well, I guess he decided to take the plunge too because his brother did. He''s following in his younger brother''s footsteps. And it''s a destination wedding too. How cute, its a trend.''

I think the least they could allow us is for us to send our save the dates first, even if first by a couple of days, because I certainly don''t want anyone to have the impression that our wedding is the copy-cat wedding.

Trust me, Elle--I know this is hard to remember when you''re in the thick of wedding planning, but honestly, very few people care about (or for that matter even notice) the details of other people''s weddings. I really don''t think anyone is going to be comparing . . . most people just aren''t that interested.

I really, really think that for your own peace of mind and peace in your family you need to drop this whole drama and apologize for making a *thing* out of it. Otherwise you''re just setting a precedent for ongoing competition. What''s going to happen if the two of you get pregnant close to the same time?

 

[tanyak]

Date: 9/30/2006 12:05:44 AM
Author: aljdewey
She's trying to compromise, and you're not. Unless you want to be perceived as the troublemaker, you have to find the strength to handle this disappointment. Even your FMIL understands your disappointment and has said 'we don't have to include them in site hunting'. Everyone gets that you want some things that are yours. Take comfort in that, and CHOOSE to look at those positive signs instead of dwelling on your disappointment and letting it overwhelm you.

Exactly. I know their wedding month is still up in the air, but fairly soon, they're going to pick a month and go with it. Then she'll go about the business of plannng, and if you're still sulking and stewing and trying to get involved in their timeline, it will reflect poorly on you, not her.

Quote: Trust me, Elle--I know this is hard to remember when you're in the thick of wedding planning, but honestly, very few people care about (or for that matter even notice) the details of other people's weddings. I really don't think anyone is going to be comparing . . . most people just aren't that interested.

I was going to post this earlier, but this totally true. Really, the only people who might notice and compare are engaged women, newlywed brides and busy-body relatives.

No one else really cares, despite what we brides like to think.

 

[rainwood]

Elle, Elle, Elle. Remember who you are. You''re the nice one, you''re the smart one. Don''t let this woman turn you into someone you aren''t. Then she wins because you turn into her. Ugh!

Lawyers are competitive people. I don''t know if we have it in us before law school or we develop it because of law school, but we just are. So use that competitiveness to a good end. You said you didn''t see an upside to all this. There''s a huge upside. You have a chance to be the good one, the DIL everybody loves, the SIL everybody loves. If you can be gracious about this (which is different than nice by the way), you will reap dividends from that for the rest of your frickin'' life. You win!! I mean it.

So think strategically. It''s a cliche, but you aren''t seeing the forest because you''re obsessed about some of the trees. If you''re really concerned that some of the people you want to attend will only be able to go to one wedding, send out your STD''s now. They only need to say the date and Mexico. People might need to put in for vacation, but they aren''t going to rush out and buy a plane ticket tomorrow. You had a very precise plan for doing it differently, but a good lawyer knows the plan has to change when the facts change. The facts have changed so change the plan. Don''t ask them to do anything, just send ''em out now. It''s that simple.

And don''t glare at the FSIL on the Thanksgiving trip or any other time. Because that''s not your goal. Your plan, your goal is to be the nice one, the one everybody loves best. Shooting dirty looks isn''t going to get you to that goal and it won''t make you feel any better. Whenever the drama starts to hit, just keep repeating "Forest, trees, forest, trees." You''ll be happier and that''s when you really win.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 9/30/2006 12:53:01 AM
Author: rainwood
Elle, Elle, Elle. Remember who you are. You''re the nice one, you''re the smart one. Don''t let this woman turn you into someone you aren''t. Then she wins because you turn into her. Ugh!

Lawyers are competitive people. I don''t know if we have it in us before law school or we develop it because of law school, but we just are. So use that competitiveness to a good end. You said you didn''t see an upside to all this. There''s a huge upside. You have a chance to be the good one, the DIL everybody loves, the SIL everybody loves. If you can be gracious about this (which is different than nice by the way), you will reap dividends from that for the rest of your frickin'' life. You win!! I mean it.

So think strategically. It''s a cliche, but you aren''t seeing the forest because you''re obsessed about some of the trees. If you''re really concerned that some of the people you want to attend will only be able to go to one wedding, send out your STD''s now. They only need to say the date and Mexico. People might need to put in for vacation, but they aren''t going to rush out and buy a plane ticket tomorrow. You had a very precise plan for doing it differently, but a good lawyer knows the plan has to change when the facts change. The facts have changed so change the plan. Don''t ask them to do anything, just send ''em out now. It''s that simple.

And don''t glare at the FSIL on the Thanksgiving trip or any other time. Because that''s not your goal. Your plan, your goal is to be the nice one, the one everybody loves best. Shooting dirty looks isn''t going to get you to that goal and it won''t make you feel any better. Whenever the drama starts to hit, just keep repeating ''Forest, trees, forest, trees.'' You''ll be happier and that''s when you really win.

I agree. We don''t want you looking like the little girl kicking and throwing her fists against the floor in a tantrum, now do we? What was that movie about the cheerleaders with Tommy Lee Jones? The one where in the commercial the cheerleader goes "Put on your happy face?" and Tommy Lee Jones goes "this IS my happy face?"

PUT ON YOUR HAPPY FACE girl!

 

[etienneperret]

I can not believe how full of yourself you are.

What you do with your fiance and future husband is your business.
What his sister does with her fiance is her business.
Stop even thinking about what is right for other people.
Focus on the enjoyment that the marriage will bring to your life and how you can pass on the joy to other people.

 

[diamondfan]

I do not think there needs to be nasty judgements. I hope Elle got her feelings out here and is going to find a way to work it out. I think living life with the sister in law as a constant contest and feeling you have to hide all things from her is a tiresome chore. No one wants to live that way unless they are masochists. I am sure Elle is not a petty or spiteful and I think she just wanted to vent here so she could process her feelings and move on. I had a friend, not a family member, who was always doing this and after hiding stuff from her I realized she had competitive issues and I could not deal. I was able to avoid her, since she was not family. Elle cannot really do this so it is in her interest to figure out a coping strategy. Knowing this other girl''s ways will help Elle work on a way to coexist with her, hopefully. And, like Christa wisely said, most guests not noticing the nitty gritty, they are likely just happy to be there for you on your day and see the whole picture, not all the parts! So each wedding will by its nature be different because of the people involved etc, so that should not be a worry anymore...

 

[decodelighted]

I suspect the harsher "take" on the situation is the one that would prevail if Elle''s true feelings at the moment were revealed in public via complaining about the FSIL.. or acted out toward the FSIL (sulking, silent treatment, nasty looks, mean comments).

Your friends might take your side, other Brides or Brides-To-Be might sympathize, but IMHO the REST of the world (97% or so) isn''t going to be so charitable or empathetic in their interpretation.

It could appear unreasonable/bratty. So I''d say: keep on venting here -- stiff upper lip with the family & in front of all but your closest gal pals!!!

Meant WITH LOVE & RESPECT, Elle. Honestly!

 

[ellewoods]

Thanks for all the new replies everyone.

Monarch is right on -- here in cyberspace I can vent and show my disapointment and anger and bitter feelings towards brother''s fiance in a way that I would never do (and don''t do) in reality. I came here to vent and ask for people''s thoughts, and I''m still here listening to everyone''s thoughts even though some people disagree with me and some people don'' t understand my reaction.

I am not full of myself, by any stretch of the imagination. If I was a truly selfish and self-absorbed person I wouldn''t be here asking for your advice and comments, I''d be plotting every way imaginable to turn my hurt towards fiance''s brother + brother''s fiance somehow. I am not doing that.

Rainwood -- yes, you are right in that I''m competitive. But I''m not competitive just for the sake of being competitive, and I''m not competitive with everyone. I am mostly competitive with myself, and that''s in school and work matters. As far as my personal life, I haven''t been keeping score. I definitely haven''t been competing with brother''s fiance. My fiance, his sister, and I all know that brother''s fiance will be the one having kids first (because she talks about having kids constantly and I have a good 5+ years before I even start thinking about them)...and that''s fine, I don''t want to have kids for at least another 5 years. But I''ll admit, it did cross my mind when I first heard the news, and my fiance even said it to me,half-joking, half-serious, "Well they''re already going to have the first baby. They get to have the first wedding too?" So yes, my feeling like they jumped the queue has triggered competitive feelings towards her, but not serious feelings, feelings I''m trying to get out of my system so I can move on and return to normal Elle who is above these things of things.

Monarch -- thank you very much for the book reccomendation, I am going to order it today. It sounds really helpful in general. I am sure some of my feelings now are based on the emotional traumas of my past, and my fears for the future -- makes sense. I didn''t have much parental support growing up, so I never experienced any celebrations around me or my accomplishments, and I can recognize that I am disapointed not to marry first because I feel like I will miss out (again), on being celebrated. In terms of fears about the future, I don''t have fears about my fiance or marriage but I did hold a big belief that once I became and adult and started my own life path, without being hindered or hurt by my family (or lack thereof), things would be different -- I could make a joyus life for myself through my own relationships and choices. And the past couple years coming into my own as an adult looking to the future with my fiance -- I have really been excited at the potential for creating great memories and having good healthy relationships with people.

For exampe, I can recognize that I have been really looking forward to my wedding because it would be an event that was a big celebration, with people who love and support us around and the ones that are hurtful would not be there to tarnish it. I''d have a pretty dress, and a meaningful ceremony, and a nice meal -- just like everyone else seems to have who is "normal" -- even though I never had those "normal" types of life experiences growing up. Even though over the years I''ve become a "people pleaser" who puts others first, and isn''t "selfish" enough towards myself and my needs and wants, and I don''t like being the center of attention or fussed over because somehow I think I don''t deserve it....well this time, people would fuss over me and care about the details of the wedding, and act like all of my choices and decisions are extremely important (even if they''re just about what color dresses and what cake flavor), and its not only accepted for the focus to be on the bride, its even expected.

Like my wedding would really be a healing event in my mind, erasing all of the non-birthdays and disregarded graduations and all the empty years without love and support. That I wouldn''t be scarred from that forever, you know? That I could take the adult person I''ve become, who has worked very hard to overcome a rocky childhood, and I would validate myself and my future life. So perhaps this "hiccup" (as Lindsay called it), is triggering fears in me that my life won''t be good and healthy and happy going forward. That I won''t be able to have all of the happy, "normal" aspects of an adult life as I did not have them as a child. Because once again, something outside of my control intervenes and gets right in the way of my hopes for a positive and happy experience. And this makes me feel like why did I foolishly think I''d have a normal, happy, wedding, like other people have? That doesn''t happen in my life. I was foolish to think things have changed. I shouldn''t hope for happy normal things in the rest of my future either.

So yes Monarch, I definitely agree that my reaction may be based a lot on my hurt feelings from the past and fears for the future.

Deco -- I agree with your advice, stip upper lip in front of most, but I will allow myself to vent with fiance and some other close girl friends.

I''m still disapointed and upset about this, and that''s fading somewhat into acceptance, but it doesn''t mean the underlying feelings have faded. It''s something that will take some time I guess. I can''t promise to embrace brother''s fiance and be super happy for her -- I''m not going to turn the other cheek here. I will try to stop feeling so bitter towards her, because that''s not healthy for me, but I have no desire to have any dealings with her. And I''m still annoyed she is going to be on our planning trip. It''s like pouring salt into the wound.

I agree this is something that could cause a crack in a family but I wish they had cared about that before announcing August. I feel like they started the crack, so I don''t think its my responsibility now to be the one who ensures the crack doesn''t grow bigger. But again, residue from my childhood, I am often the peace maker and person who smoothes things over, because I''ve learned not to rock the boat or make waves. That''s unfairly relying on my people-pleaser character flaws.

Diamondfan -- Thanks for the support, I appreciate that you recognize I''m here venting to find a solution so I can get through this and move on.

 

[Mara]

Elle your last post made me think of this...

So you have this residue from childhood and you were hoping that marriage would somehow equate normal and happy. What is normal? What is happy? You define those for yourself now that you are an adult. I would assume you are happy with your fiance? I can understand the marriage representing a new life...maybe one that is better for you than the one in the past. But these expectations you have are set very high it sounds like.

It sounds in a way like your own 'issues' and 'baggage' are setting the stage for how happy or disappointed you can be with situations and events that are out of your control. I would really look further into that. You could be setting yourself up for disappointment with 'expectations'. Have you gotten therapy to deal with your past and the potential future? Maybe talking to an expert would help the healing process.

In a way..and don't take this the wrong way, but reading that last post...I was thinking...well so basically YOU have issues and it's HER (SIL) fault because you had this bad childhood and she came in and she demands what she wants and is not a people-pleaser and does what she wants and somehow it's their fault they didn't consider your bad childhood and your 'i want a normal happy life' issues before they planned their wedding date.

Do you see how that could be flawed in terms of reasoning? You had expectations for your wedding, your life, etc and they ruined them by daring to set their wedding before yours...and it's THEIR fault they caused the crack...not your 'expectations' fault in any way. Seriously, I think it's NOT all their fault. Your expectations, your issues, your baggage, etc helped cause the crack and their action was just the CATALYST to these exploding feelings inside of YOU. They did something and it triggered this reaction.

This is why I also say maybe seek some therapy and someone to talk to. I think that you may be setting yourself up for a lifetime of disappointments if you are always hoping for 'happy and normal' when life is just plain and simply not like that.

Lastly, I think you are totally entitled to your feelings, you don't have to justify them. Use this place to vent and maybe get some valid advice, yes so it can keep you from exploding in person with his family. BUT I don't think that just sweeping the feelings under the rug is going to help. You have to somehow address these feelings inside you, probably not with her since she probably has NO IDEA you are this conflicted and upset inside about what happened. But maybe with a therapist.

 

[ellewoods]

Mara,

I don''t want to get into the "what is normal?" "what is happy?" back and forth. Yes I know you define those things for yourself when you''re an adult. And I am trying to do that in my own life. I just explained about my childhood issues to help explain why my wedding means so much to me. As an adult, defining my own "normal" and "happy," I don''t want people involved with my wedding or wedding planning that are hurtful or negative or toxic. And that includes selfish people who don''t care about anybody except themselves, which I feel brother''s fiance is.

I do not go through life always searching for normal and happy, I realize life is not normal or happy -- I have had an excessive amount of such experiences. But I am also a optimist and I look for the good in situations. I have seen a therapist at different times to discuss things, and I agree it can be helpful.

I am not trying to say that brother + fiance should have taken my childhood issues into account when selecting a wedding date. But I still feel that they should have taken other people''s feelings into account -- whomever those people might be. And since our wedding was announced months ago, with a date, and its obviously going to be a large amount of the same guests, it would have been logical, and considerate, to at least have thought of how their choice might effect our wedding, relations among the family, relations between the 4 of us, etc. Obviously that didn'' t happen.

Many of you have said that that you can sympathize with me, and that if you were in my situation it would be a bummer, and you''d be disapointed too. Some have also said -- but be disapointed for a while, and then get over it. And some of you seem to be telling me I should stop feeling upset and disapointed immediately.

Well I''m trying to get to acceptance (and I''m almost there), and I''m trying to let go of my negative feelings. But its still hard. I can''t believe that if you guys were in my situatuon, you wouldn''t have some resentment towards brother''s fiance. And really, having her along on your planning trip to another country? That''s going to be tough to swallow. And I don''t think everyone here would be able to do it 100% graciously and with a peaceful mind and joy towards brother''s fiance. I mean some of you have shared your own stories where friends have announced weddings before yours, close in time, and you were annoyed/upset/angry with your own friends about it, I think its a natural reaction. In this case she isn''t a friend, but we''ve been closely connected the last couple of years and she has known detailed information about our wedding and planning for it. So it feels worse.

 

[VRBeauty]

Hi Elle:

Sometimes even the anonymity of an internet forum doesn't seem anonymous enough, but here I go anyway...

Can I offer some tips from my personal "letting go of resentment" experiences? I carried a resentment against a co-worker and former friend for several years for something she did that hurt me deeply. Although that may seem trivial compared to a family situation there are similarities. Many of the employees in my workplace have worked together for twenty years or more, and it really is like a family for us. And of course it's complicated by the power relationships that are inherent anytime there's an organizaitonal chart! Without going into details there were both personal and professional reasons why I had to get over this resentment, but for a long time it didn't seem possible. Here's what it finally took:

Really recognizing how my actions and fears contributed to the situation that started the whole thing.

Recognizing my co-worker's strengths and positive characteristics -- searching for them if necessary -- and reminding myself of them often.

Wishing the best for her, asking that she get the recognition and other good things she deserves. (In my case this was a regular part of my prayers, along with a request to be relieved of the resentment. In your case, it might include a wish that she and FBIL have a beautiful wedding surrounded by the family and friends that they love.)

Finally, apologizing to her. She really didn't know what I was talking about, in the sense that she attributed the what I described to jealosy when it was deeper than that. No matter. Not long after that she made a professional decision that was both hurtful and embarrasing to me. I simmered and simpered quietly for a few days and then was able to let it go! Halleluja!

My point is that those negative feelings probably aren't going to leave all by themselves; you may have to work at it. But consider what's at stake: if you allow this stuff to hang around you will be going into every family situation girded for battle, effectively denying yourself the extended family that you'd hoped to gain as part of marrying your fiance. If you deal with this resentment effectively you will be contributing to peace within your extended family and good relations between your fiance and his brother. And who knows, you might even find a friend in that new sister-in-law!

Good luck.

 

[tanyak]

Elle, you have every right to be upset, you can''t control your feelings. That said, I think the thing is a lot of people on the board don''t think this girl did anything *wrong.* You think her reasons/actions have been selfish, but you''ve also shared some selfish thoughts yourself. For example, they initially didn''t pick June 2007 because they have friends getting married that month, but yet you want them to move their wedding to the same month for you. So what happens to the friends who would be invited to two June weddings? Why is that better than what is happening to you and your guests?

You also seem upset that they didn''t consult you and the family before picking a date. I have a friend who, in an effort to please all these family members and timelines, has ended up with a wedding she''s not thrilled about. It would have been in her best interest to be a little more "selfish." And I don''t see why you think this girl is going to copy you. If she had a date picked before she was even engaged, I''m SURE she already has plenty of her own ideas. I think you''re bringing unnecessary worry there.

I know we''re just starting to go in circles now, so I''ll just say that I''m glad you seem to be moving toward acceptance, and I hope you feel better in a couple of weeks.

 

[larussel03]

I've been thinking about your situation for a few days but had not responded b/c I was unsure of how I would have reacted. If I were in your position I think that I too would feel upset, mostly because both are destination weddings, and there is a good chance that not everyone you guys both invite can afford to attend both or get time off for both, which is what seems to make this really hard for you, esp since you said that your FI's family is and has been YOUR family as well for a long time. If she were having a wedding that weren't a destination one, I'd see no reason for upset, but you do have a special circumstance there.

I personally think it sucks that she is having a destination wedding right before yours, but I dont know what you can really do to change it without causing family rifts, which it seems that you really do not want to cause. Hopefully you and she can work this out so that you'll be OK with it at some point, but if I were you I would just take the high road and keep on planning and know that your day is not going to be any less special than her's will be and that you are going to have so much fun at your wedding and it still WILL be the best day of your life.

As others have said, feel free to vent here! It's therapeutic and better than throwing it her way when the sitch may not be changable.

Good luck!

 

[diamondfan]

it just makes me think if the shoe were on the other foot would SHE be concerned about this? Would she be worried about your future relationship? Seems like no, which is why it stinks to have o make it work when likier than not she is not even thinking about you in the equation...

 

[FireGoddess]

As I said before, I was put in a similar situation by my best friend and I was POed about it, because many of our guests were people that knew us both and would not fly out cross-country twice to attend 2 weddings within 2 months. What ended up happening was that since I set my wedding date first and told them about it first, they came to my wedding. Most people will recognize what's going on. Many of our friends even asked me about it without my telling them. 'Why is she having her wedding right before yours?' I simply said I didn't know.

There's only so much you can do, and at this point, it's just to plan your wedding! Send your save the dates, get everyone the info so they know when and where it is. If people will only come to one, there's not much you can do about it. I will say that now that the weddings have passed, the issue is gone and I don't think about it within the framework of our friendship anymore. It might have been a different outcome if it had affected the attendance at my wedding as much as it could have.

I think that people who say it's not a big deal haven't dealt with something like this. Someone replied earlier that they have and it didn't bother them - well, if it doesn't affect your guest list, I can see that. But when we're talking two weddings within the same FAMILY...well, it might. And I can see how you feel this way. But know that in the grand scheme of things, this won't seem so big in 2 years.

ETA: Quick question - I forgot who posted the mantra like, "I won't be first, and it's okay." But I didn't think it was about being first or not. Is it about being first for you? For me, it had nothing to do with being first or not...it had to do with the fact that 75% of our common guests live on the other side of the country and would not have flown that far twice in 2 months.

 

[Mara]

here's a question for you elle (and for you too FG since you seem to feel similary to elle re: the whole guests going to one or the other thing)...

so they got engaged after you. did you expect her to what? get married in 2008? just so that she wouldn't be anywhere near the year that the same guests and family would not have to fly out to 2 weddings? if so, that seems to me like thinking of asking a lot of someone you don't even talk to, don't even like....just plain expecting her to not be anywhere near your wedding because that is a whole year of time that they have to be engaged when it seems like they don't want to wait.

the bottom line is that SHIT HAPPENS! and no i don't think that the other couple is really DOING anything wrong. it's not like they are holding you down and whipping you with a wet noodle. they planned their wedding before yours. big woop. so if they put it 2 months after yours would you care? probably not because you already had your day.

i guess for me it's not just about 'lets feel bad for elle because it sucks'...and it DOES SUCK. i want to be clear about that. sure i'd be probably like a bit peevo about it too. but in reality...people just plain and simply cannot plan their lives around other people! and that includes weddings, babies, whatever. i just keep feeling like elle is expecting the world to revolve around her for that one year in 2007 because thats THEIR wedding year and they were FIRST. and to me that doesn't fly.

anyway i do feel like we are all getting a bit circular here as well. i feel like we are not being heard or something or maybe it just really doesn't matter. elle i think you are totally entitled to your feelings and you of course are venting here so you don't explode elsewhere and that's cool. but i feel like you really don't want actual advice or recommendations from anyone here. you just are saying this is how i feel, i don't care what you all think, she's wrong and i'm okay to feel this way and that's it, you guys shouldn't tell me to get over it. when in reality i think that this whole thing could be a serious growth experience for you if you let it. it's not about 'sucking it up and putting on a happy face' necessarily as it is really as minims said .... getting some real insight into growing a bit mentally. if you are able to get past this, let it go, embrace the sister in law, you are plain and simply a better person for it. instead you keep saying 'why do *I* have to suck it up' kind of thing. well why don't you? do you really want to continue along this vein?

for me personal growth and experiences in life are what shape us. how we deal with them. not everything always goes your way in life..as you well know. but i think that you can be a better person after you get this all worked out in your mind..and not harbor resentment over it. as someone who married into a family where they were very tight and close knit, i have had to accept kind of how his family works and try to build friendships with his family, his sister who is just a few years older than me. it's TOUGH to accept adults as your family esp when you may not ever meet them or be friends with them on your own typically. but it has really shown me a lot and taught me even more about acceptance and 'the world does not revolve around me' kinda thing.

rambling now but anyway, for me this is about TWO COUPLES. not just elle. the other couple has wedding expectations too. and i think that both couples are equal in how they should figure things out. even just the fact that they are CONSIDERING moving his wedding so that yours could have more fanfare is really speaking volumes to me. they are trying.