Deciding whether to go lab grown

[missy]

@missy I agree with you that prices are still on the high side for OECs as seen on Distinctive Gem's website.

I have not looked at any other site though.

DK

Please share if you know of any other vendor doing old cut MMDs. I think Yoram might be but that is the only other person I am aware of who is doing old cut MMDs.

 

[dk168]

Please share if you know of any other vendor doing old cut MMDs. I think Yoram might be but that is the only other person I am aware of who is doing old cut MMDs.

Custom cutting by Yoram is out of my reach based on what I have read re: minimum starting cost per stone!

Perhaps @OoohShiny may be able to help with regard to sources of old cut labs and MMDs.

DK

 

[OoohShiny]

Thanks for the tag, @dk168!

Please share if you know of any other vendor doing old cut MMDs. I think Yoram might be but that is the only other person I am aware of who is doing old cut MMDs.

There's the 'list of MMD vendors' thread that (IIRC) has a couple listed that deal with unusual shapes, but I think perhaps Parks Fine Group might be an option - so lovely instagram posts with MMDs recently!

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[missy]

Thanks for the tag, @dk168!



There's the 'list of MMD vendors' thread that (IIRC) has a couple listed that deal with unusual shapes, but I think perhaps Parks Fine Group might be an option - so lovely instagram posts with MMDs recently!

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Thank you @OoohShiny! I wait patiently and look forward to seeing what develops.

 

[purecarats]

It's up to you whether you tell people its lab grown, but the good thing is that its completely your choice.

In terms of the look they look identical, most people are proud to say its a lab grown!

Yes! IGI is currently industry standard for lab grown diamonds, although the GIA has recently announced that they will be providing full lab grown diamond certificates, the supply of these is still low so they are more expensive!

Best of luck!

 

[nala]

Yes....which is exactly my point. Im of the opinion a diamond is a diamond whether it came from the ground or was created in a lab.

Question for you and not to single you out so for anyone who agrees with you. If you were to sell your mmd on the secondary market—would you have to disclose that it is an mmd? If so, why—if both are identical?

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Question for you and not to single you out so for anyone who agrees with you. If you were to sell your mmd on the secondary market—would you have to disclose that it is an mmd? If so, why—if both are identical?

Good question

 

[Eeveepenny]

Question for you and not to single you out so for anyone who agrees with you. If you were to sell your mmd on the secondary market—would you have to disclose that it is an mmd? If so, why—if both are identical?

It’s inscribed on the diamond and the certificate says lab grown.

 

[nala]

It’s inscribed on the diamond and the certificate says lab grown.

Even on smaller stones? Like two .50 carat side stones, for example?

 

[Eeveepenny]

Even on smaller stones? Like two .50 carat side stones, for example?

As far as I am aware, yes. I could be wrong though. Anyone else please correct me if that’s the case

 

[FL_runner]

As far as I am aware, yes. I could be wrong though. Anyone else please correct me if that’s the case

In my limited experience, yes, even smaller stones have the laser etching- my 1 TCW stud earrings (the only MMD I own) are inscribed.

 

[AprilBaby]

If I were to sell, yes I would disclose because some people don’t want a MMD. It’s also inscribed on the girdle so if I lied and they found out it could be trouble. Never planning on selling.

 

[molecule]

As responsible sellers, my personal belief is that we should be giving as much known information to the potential buyers as possible. It is the same as a seller omitting known information like a scratch or chip.

 

[ThiaChelf]

Yes...I have two 1/2 carat plus solitaires that are inscribed. In the interest of honesty I would disclose and include their certifications...but I'm not selling. I bought those in the particular thought of passing them on to my children.

 

[dk168]

Yes I would disclose full details, as some may have issues with Labs/MMDs.

DK

 

[missy]

Not to disclose would not only be unethical it would be fraudulent imo. Lab diamonds are not earth mined diamonds. Even if they are the same chemical composition. They remain different for that one reason.

 

[dk168]

Not to disclose would not only be unethical it would be fraudulent imo. Lab diamonds are not earth mined diamonds. Even if they are the same chemical composition. They remain different for that one reason.

Yup, that's my sentiments too - not to disclose = fraud.

I would not dream of passing a lab CS as earth-mined for the same reasons, and the same applies to lab/MMDs, IMHO.

I would apply the same to pearls, however, man-made pearls are a lot easier to detect without the need for microscopic examinations, not for me at least, and MHO.

Having said that, I would have an issue with vendors passing Chinese Akoyas as Japanese ones, and that practice, I believe, is quite widespread. Good job I don't buy Akoyas.

DK

 

[missy]

Yup, that's my sentiments too - not to disclose = fraud.

I would not dream of passing a lab CS as earth-mined for the same reasons, and the same applies to lab/MMDs, IMHO.

I would apply the same to pearls, however, man-made pearls are a lot easier to detect without the need for microscopic examinations, not for me at least, and MHO.

Having said that, I would have an issue with vendors passing Chinese Akoyas as Japanese ones, and that practice, I believe, is quite widespread. Good job I don't buy Akoyas.

DK

I took the GIA courses and one important point they keep driving home is to be completely above board and honest. Ignorance is not an excuse. One must know the origin of the piece or say they do not know. At all times one must act with complete honesty and openness. Of course none of us needed a GIA course to know that but it is good they are actively teaching it. Just in case. To me that is black and white. Disclose all treatments. Disclose all facts. Do not try to pass it off as something else.

 

[nala]

Not to disclose would not only be unethical it would be fraudulent imo. Lab diamonds are not earth mined diamonds. Even if they are the same chemical composition. They remain different for that one reason.

Yet most on this thread insist they are the same. That’s why I asked the question. Because at the end of the day, the fundamental difference is significant. And that is what OP was worried about. Maybe her concern stems from the fact that she feels that not disclosing that her diamond is lab made—if she goes with it—is misleading. She said, “Do I disclose that it is a lab diamond and I worry they will think it’s a CZ.” If I bought a lab diamond, and my dear loved ones made comments about my ring and assumptions about the cost (see my thread in hangout)—I would be misleading others to think that I spent thousands more than I actually did. Because like it or not, people view Natural diamonds as extremely expensive and lab mined ones not so much.

 

[dk168]

The issue I have is usually the other way round, in that I would claim a piece is made of simulant/lab/MMD to hide the real cost of the piece!

I would only do this to only one person though, and that is my mum; otherwise I would hear no end of her nagging about wasting my money on jewellery, etc. etc... To be honest, I don't care what she thinks as it is my money. However, it's the nagging that I can do without!

Once I was wearing a sizable oval white Zircon cut by Jeff Davies, and a colleague who is not into jewellery asked if it was a diamond, and I quickly responded that I would not be in gainful employment if I were able to afford a diamond that size!

DK

 

[123ducklings]

Good question

Of course everyone here would disclose an MMD as such on the secondhand market. And surely they’d price accordingly. It’s the decent thing to do, and as others have noted the info is inscribed on the diamonds and on the paperwork. I very much doubt that anyone on RT would say a J VS1 mined diamond is any more or less of a diamond than a F S1 mined diamond, but that doesn’t mean sellers don’t need to give the specs during sale.

That said, this clearly wasn’t an honest question about people’s resale plans as much as it was an attempted “gotcha.” I think what you’re missing is that most MMD buyers won’t ever resell, and they know that up front and have said so on this thread.

@nala on Missy’s thread you were in the “I wear them for myself” camp and said you love looking at your diamonds. I take that at face value and don’t project any nefarious resale plans or social posturing onto you. Surely you can understand someone buying an MMD for the sake of her own enjoyment the same way.

 

[nala]

Of course everyone here would disclose an MMD as such on the secondhand market. And surely they’d price accordingly. It’s the decent thing to do, and as others have noted the info is inscribed on the diamonds and on the paperwork. I very much doubt that anyone on RT would say a J VS1 mined diamond is any more or less of a diamond than a F S1 mined diamond, but that doesn’t mean sellers don’t need to give the specs during sale.

That said, this clearly wasn’t an honest question about people’s resale plans as much as it was an attempted “gotcha.” I think what you’re missing is that most MMD buyers won’t ever resell, and they know that up front and have said so on this thread.

@nala on Missy’s thread you were in the “I wear them for myself” camp and said you love looking at your diamonds. I take that at face value and don’t project any nefarious resale plans or social posturing onto you. Surely you can understand someone buying an MMD for the sake of her own enjoyment the same way.

Of course! But I am addressing the OPs concern, which most seem to be too biased to do. She obviously is concerned about others assumptions and I’m merely playing devils advocate. She doesn’t want others to assume it’s a CZ—so she cares what others think.

 

[AprilBaby]

Yet most on this thread insist they are the same. That’s why I asked the question. Because at the end of the day, the fundamental difference is significant. And that is what OP was worried about. Maybe her concern stems from the fact that she feels that not disclosing that her diamond is lab made—if she goes with it—is misleading. She said, “Do I disclose that it is a lab diamond and I worry they will think it’s a CZ.” If I bought a lab diamond, and my dear loved ones made comments about my ring and assumptions about the cost (see my thread in hangout)—I would be misleading others to think that I spent thousands more than I actually did. Because like it or not, people view Natural diamonds as extremely expensive and lab mined ones not so much.

The fundamental difference is price so why would I not disclose to a buyer and charge them mined diamond price?

 

[AprilBaby]

Of course! But I am addressing the OPs concern, which most seem to be too biased to do. She obviously is concerned about others assumptions and I’m merely playing devils advocate. She doesn’t want others to assume it’s a CZ—so she cares what others think.

Even if she bought a mined diamond someone may assume it’s a CZ. What’s the point?
whatever she buys it has to be “ mind clean” for her. I can’t wear moissanite because I know it’s not diamond. Other people have no problem. She seems intelligent enough to decide what she can deal with.

 

[Ada Diamonds CEO]

I bought my wife lab diamonds back in 2012 from a member of the trade that we found via Pricescope, and I've proudly disclosed the origin of the diamonds every time

@Nicm - We just received our first AGS graded lab diamonds today, so that is a forthcoming option for grading. We're the first/only retailer in AGS's pilot, so AGS graded goods are not generally available yet, but we're sending our goods for secondary grading.

GIA will also be offering full fidelity grading of MMDs in early Q4.

As others have mentioned, Diamond Foundry/Vrai's 'reports' are *not* from GIA, and instead self graded.

 

[AprilBaby]

Hi Jasper, Not sure I totally believed them, but last year at the Vegas JCK show I met the De Beers Lightbox people and asked about post HPHT treatment, and as i remember they said they have imporved processes that do not require HPHT.

And an aside - I happened to be in Portland Oregon 2 years ago when the first sod was turned on the Lightbox factory. This photo was taken a day later trying to illegally enter the new diamond mine site.

I have family in the west hills in Portland. Can you tell me where the factory is?

 

[nala]

Even if she bought a mined diamond someone may assume it’s a CZ. What’s the point?
whatever she buys it has to be “ mind clean” for her. I can’t wear moissanite because I know it’s not diamond. Other people have no problem. She seems intelligent enough to decide what she can deal with.

She posted this thread and expressed that concern. “1. Do you tell people it is lab grown? I worry people would think of it as a CZ and not understand.”

What’s the point of lashing out at me bc my reply to her does not echo this chamber?I realize that I’m an outsider here bc I’m actually willing to address OP’s issues. You know very well that she indicated that her issue regarding CZ would be the result of saying lab diamond. Look at her quote. I think the reason there are 2 separate forums for natural and MMD is because in a diamond forum—for purists—the origin and the implications of the origin actually does matter. But since I’m venturing into this forum recently, I’m still clear about this where many of you like to blend the two. What is the fear and why should it be such a private matter to use the term MMD when identifying one’s lab diamond? Isn’t MMD the proper term?

 

[dk168]

If peeps are concerned their labs/MMDs could be mistaken as simulants, then don't buy in sizes greater than what one can comfortably afford in earth-mined equivalent.

To me personally, that means one year's full time salary in monetary term.

Personal opinion and all that.

DK

 

[Eeveepenny]

She posted this thread and expressed that concern. “1. Do you tell people it is lab grown? I worry people would think of it as a CZ and not understand.”

What’s the point of lashing out at me bc my reply to her does not echo this chamber?I realize that I’m an outsider here bc I’m actually willing to address OP’s issues. You know very well that she indicated that her issue regarding CZ would be the result of saying lab diamond. Look at her quote. I think the reason there are 2 separate forums for natural and MMD is because in a diamond forum—for purists—the origin and the implications of the origin actually does matter. But since I’m venturing into this forum recently, I’m still clear about this where many of you like to blend the two. What is the fear and why should it be such a private matter to use the term MMD when identifying one’s lab diamond? Isn’t MMD the proper term?

Some people still consider them different even though they are not. They.are.the.same.Yes one is made in a lab and one is made naturally but both have their pros and cons in terms of price and carbon footprint. But who is to say which one is more important and which is valued more? MMD are still very unknown here in Australia and most people only know about diamond simulants, moissinite and czs. This will definitely change over the coming years and I’m really excited about that!

 

[nala]

Some people still consider them different even though they are not. They.are.the.same.Yes one is made in a lab and one is made naturally but both have their pros and cons in terms of price and carbon footprint. But who is to say which one is more important and which is valued more? MMD are still very unknown here in Australia and most people only know about diamond simulants, moissinite and czs. This will definitely change over the coming years and I’m really excited about that!

Then why the two separate forums? Then why is the term fraud being used when it comes to selling but not when withholding that info to those who ask? What’s with all the “it’s no one’s business” if it’s mmd or mined—why the need to be secretive of origin id they are the same? Why mislead?