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Deciding Between Diamonds

hornshot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
7
Hello all,

This site is awesome and I've already learned a ton.

We've gone shopping a few times and I've triangulated to these statistics:

Carats: ~1.5+
Cut: Ideal
Color: F/G
Clarity: VVS2+ (but I've heard/seen conflicting things on this... wanted to err on the side of better clarity given I can't see things that I buy online...)
Fluoresence: Faint / None
Budget: ~$15,000

I've come across these two that I really am thinking of pulling the trigger on. Would greatly appreciate any thoughts on these, as well as if I should be considering other options. Thanks so much!

http://www.b2cjewels.com/dd-7364486-1.59-carat-Round-diamond-G-color-VVS1-Clarity.aspx?sku=7364486&utm_source=pricescope.com&utm_medium=referral&utm_campaign=pricescope.com

http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.62-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-843597
 

ADN

Shiny_Rock
Trade
Joined
Nov 24, 2015
Messages
311
hornshot|1454306221|3985014 said:
Clarity: VVS2+ (but I've heard/seen conflicting things on this... wanted to err on the side of better clarity given I can't see things that I buy online...)
Hi - I'm in the trade, so I can't comment on the stone specifically as it's against forum rules - - but I will give you some clarification on the comment you've made above. There are a few online vendors that have the capacity to give you very detailed images/videos - if you find a diamond that you're interested in, but an image isn't provided, you might want to try contacting them to see if any are available. There are plenty of eye clean stones with lower than VVS clarity grades out there that can be confirmed online - and if you drop down a bit in clarity, it may allow you to increase something with the other 3Cs.
Hope this helps
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
I can't open the link to the B2C stone's GIA report, so I don't know what the angles are, but the JA stone's crown angle is a little too high and there could be leakage. I also like a clean stone, but I would strongly recommend going to VS1 as you usually cannot see inclusions even with a 10x loupe. Anything higher than VS1 is overpaying for something that you cannot see a difference in.

These are measurements to help you stay in ideal cut territory with a GIA excellent cut stone.

table: 54-58

depth: 60-62.3

crown angle: 34-35.0

pavilion angle: 40.6-40.9 (sometimes 41.0)


Also, there is a screening tool for GIA ex cut stones:

https://www.pricescope.com/tools/hca

You want to see Excellent on light return, fire, and scintillation, and very good on spread. An overall score of 2.0 or lower means a diamond is worth exploring further (but a 1.0 isn’t necessarily better than 1.9).
 

hornshot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
7

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
Thanks for the link! I like the B2C stone numbers better, less risk of leakage. I'd ask them to call it in and see if they can do an idealscope or ASET image as well as a magnified image of the stone, if that ends up being your top choice.
 

hornshot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
7
I couldn't help myself and also reserved the other one... so hard to decide...!
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
hornshot|1454464864|3985970 said:
I couldn't help myself and also reserved the other one... so hard to decide...!
Did you ask James Allen for an idealscope or ASET image? Because I wouldn't consider buying a diamond with those numbers without it, since many with those numbers do have leakage. I suspect it may just looking at the center, but the only way to be sure is have them do the images.
 

hornshot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
7
I asked but they said that they weren't able to get it for me...

What numbers indicate light leakage so I can pay attention to it going forward? I used the HCA tool and it puts it at 1.9 territory which I guess is right on the boundary...

Thank you once again for replying to me!
 

Gypsy

Super_Ideal_Rock
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
40,198
No. Any score under 2 is as good as another. A .8 could show leakage as easily as at 1.9. It's the actual angles that DS is referring to. And that's a deeper level of analysis than the HCA which is just a pass/fail rough tool based on four data points.
 

hornshot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
7
Thanks for replying!

Looking at this chart for ideal diamond proportions, it looks like:

Table Size: at the top of the ideal range
Crown Angle: 1pp above the ideal range
Pavilion Angle: at the bottom of the ideal range
Depth: 0.2pp above the ideal range

Is this what calls the light performance into question?
 

diamondseeker2006

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jan 11, 2006
Messages
55,611
Crown angle too high means there could be leakage. It is not a stone I would consider without an ASET image. I looked at several stones on another site with those angles and most had some leakage. If I am spending that much money, I want a stone that is extremely well cut. No reason to settle for less. I have bought a good many diamonds over the last 10 years (some were trading in for larger stones), and all were in the 34-35.0 crown angle and 40.6-41.0 pavilion angle range. Combined with the right table and depth, those numbers fairly consistently result in a top GIA excellent cut stone.
 

hornshot

Rough_Rock
Joined
Feb 1, 2016
Messages
7
Hello all - so I'm back to making a final decision again after having lost the B2C one. I told myself I'd give it this weekend to make the final choice. I have both on hold. Would greatly appreciate your help in choosing between:

1. $14.5K

1.62ct / G / VVS2 / XXX / HCA = 1.9

Site: http://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/1.62-carat-g-color-vvs2-clarity-excellent-cut-sku-843597

GIA: http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?pagename=GST%2FDispatcher&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&c=Page&cid=1355954554547&reportno=6211404422

2. $15.5K

1.58ct / G / VVS2 / XXX / HCA = 1.6

Site: https://enchanteddiamonds.com/diamonds/view/R158-MW94SC

GIA: http://www.gia.edu/cs/Satellite?reportno=7208397198&childpagename=GIA%2FPage%2FReportCheck&pagename=GIA%2FDispatcher&c=Page&cid=1355954554547

THANK YOU.
 
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