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Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pics]

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Diamondz1

Shiny_Rock
Joined
Feb 18, 2015
Messages
142
Can I pick everyone's brains?

I have a damaged OEC that needs repairs but I don't know what to do.

Specs: 1.59ct, L/M, I1 due to chipped culet and pavilion/girdle

I sent the stone to Brian Gavin for rehab, initially hoping to make any necessary repairs while keeping it an OEC. Apparently, however, it needs a substantial recut so, Brian suggested making it into an MRB. It would become 1.10ct and VS2 and he said this option retains the most value.

We also discussed repairing only the girdle to make the stone safe to set, and leaving it at that.

So my options are:
1. rehab the girdle, leave the chips, stone stays substantially the same, and it retains the most carat weight
2. recut the stone but keep it an OEC, final weight/look/outcome unknown
3. recut the stone as an MRB, 1.10ct, VS2

Option one is the most straight-forward but I fell out of love with this project a while ago and with each new bit of bad news about the stone, my feelings towards it sour more. I sent it to Brian in the hopes of making the necessary repairs and consigning it. Since I'd be selling at a loss, my husband suggested that I keep it and try to find a way to enjoy it. If I keep it under the conditions of option one, it would seem to eliminate the possibility of ever selling it because the stone wouldn't been in sale-able condition, so I would *really* need to find a way to love it.

Options 2 & 3 solve that problem, however, a full recut is a permanent step with big carat weight loss so I'm unsure about pulling the trigger. Plus it's sad because it's a pretty OEC. Brian suggested that I could do a girdle touch-up first, and always recut again later. That's practical but, the thought of going through a second recut puts me off. It's double the expense, extra time, etc.

What would you do?

oec_top_view.jpg

oec_top_view_2.jpg

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Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

How much of you wants to keep it vs. selling it? If I decided that I wanted to keep the stone (because the value lost would not be worth the hassle), I would rehab the girdle and bezel/halo it. If I wanted to sell it, I would do whatever has the best chance of retaining the most value. [Caveat that I don't know anything about OEC"s except that they are beautiful!]

[Sorry, Edited because I read the post too quickly at first!]
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

Personally, if the girdle can be treated to make the stone usable, I'd trust Brian Gavin's judgement on that and have the girdle & chip(s) polished in the most minimal way. That stone could then be bezel mounted and enjoyed. If you are going to sell it, then get a lab report and some appropriate documentation of the repaired stone's soundness from BG or an appraiser. Then bezel-mount it and sell as a ring or a pendant. Not all people get all caught up in mind-clean issues with diamonds. They are all interchangeable parts to me. If it can't be used one way, find another flattering way to use it and enjoy it. But it's your stone, so you get to decide. There are lots of damaged stones in bezel settings out there, and nobody is the wiser.
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

nycspring - So true. I need to decide whether I want to sell it or keep it. That's what's got me hung up.

AdaBeta - You make a good point. The appraiser suggested that I shouldn't touch the chip in the culet, he was surprised that I could see it. Because I can, or at least because I know it's there and I think that I can see it, I've become focused on getting rid of it. I do trust Brian though. I'm sure whatever we decide to do will work out nicely. I'm definitely going to have him fix the girdle at the very least.
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

Do not recut to a MRB because it has too low color to become a desirable MRB with good resale value. Do not only rehab - too much money involved just to improve the clarity!
My suggestion is to improve the light performance! Recut it to an ideal OEC with GOG (GoodOldGold).
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

Give Adam at Old World Diamonds a call;

http://www.oldworlddiamonds.com/

Brian Gavin don't specifically deal with Old Cuts, Adam has a cutter who does a wonderful job specifically with old cuts.
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

EvaEvans - Agreed that L/M is not a common color for MRBs, that was a hesitation of mine as well. I've actually never seen an L/M MRB in person so I would be going that direction blind. Brian did say that his cape collection has been quite popular though. I got a quote from Good Old Gold for a recut and it's quiet expensive to recut this stone into an August Vintage Round, from memory I think it was over $1000 for a stone this size. Plus it needs to be insured and sent to Israel which is not necessarily a deal-breaker but an additional hurdle the cost was a deterrent.

arkieb1 - I did reach out to Adam, who sold me my engagement ring and recut the girdle for me, but he didn't respond and I didn't push it. I get the impression he doesn't offer recurring as a for-sale service, but rather an accommodation for clients (this stone is not from him).

I also got a recommendation from the appraiser and that ultimately would be tough to orchestrate. That gentleman is a cutter in NYC, I only have his first name and cell number, and I was advised that he's very good at his job but very old school and may not speak to a woman :( My husband called. He was willing to help but needs to see the stone to know what can be done and by this time it had already arrived at BGD so I opted not to call it back.

Fun fact for anyone else who goes through this: modern cutting equipment apparently cannot brute a girdle, it will be facetted. I also spoke to Grace of JbyG at one point when I learned this and she confirmed it. Adam was able to brute the girdle on my ering, and this mysterious cutter in NYC also confirmed that he could do it (but he didn't understand why I would want to - because it's more authentic to the history of the stone, I thought...) Anyway, now I know a newly bruted girdle is a rarity!
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

You need to phone Adam because he is terrible at answering emails. That is just how it is. He is great in person. And if you have no luck with him then I would be hassling Grace or Erica for help..... I guess I'm biased I think the stone will be worth more and look better as an old cut rather than a modern cut in this colour range.
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

Adam is on vacation till the end of this week, try contact him again on Monday.
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

You might try contacting Ari at Single Stone in addition to Adam at OWD. Ask if they take light performance into account as well as maximum value and weight retention. Personally, I would keep it as an OEC. It will be hard for you to sell a low colored MRB.

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rb-to-oec-recut-before-and-after-pics.177547/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/rb-to-oec-recut-before-and-after-pics.177547/[/URL]

[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mrb-recut-to-oec.203484/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/mrb-recut-to-oec.203484/[/URL]
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

arkieb1 - True. Adam's definitely better over the phone, I considered calling and maybe I should reconsider it before moving forward. I voiced some questions to Grace about how to proceed with the recut and she said she would trust Brian to do it justice as an OEC. She also kindly offered to send it to her cutter for evaluation but, to pull it back from Brian and send it elsewhere, I'd have to be very concerned about his ability to recut the stone and all signs point to him being qualified for the task.

I've been trying to surf old threads for recut info and I recall Gypsy or another frequent poster noting in someone else's BGD recut thread (an old thread) that Brian had helped her with a chipped OEC and she thought the performance was so much better after his help. It was just a blip, there was no in depth convo about it, but it gave me hope.
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

IF you decide to sell, I would suggest first trying to sell it as-is, disclosing the issues & pricing it accordingly. Not everyone wants or needs a "perfect" stone, is willing to accept some of an old cut's imperfections, or may want to decide how much to rehab it themselves once they view it. Also, that takes some of the burden/pain of the process off your shoulders; maybe get a reputable appraisal (from someone knowledgeable in old cuts, like David Atlas) first to accompany the sale with the issues disclosed so prospective buyers know what they are getting.

If it were mine, and I didn't need to sell it to fund another purchase or other financial reasons, I'd bezel set that baby for a pendant and call it a day. :dance: But I am one of those who can accept and appreciates old cuts' imperfections, but I know not everyone can or wishes to, and that's okay too.

Best of luck however you decide to proceed. :wavey:
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

Thanks skhii! I actually had read that thread but don't know why it didn't occur to me to inquire with Single Stone. I'll check in with them.

And thanks EvaEvans, I'll try to reach Adam after the holiday weekend to see if he can help.

Regardless of who does the recut, it sounds like everyone is feeling more positive about keeping this diamond as an OEC which does help, so thank you for the feedback! At one point cutting it into an MRB felt like my only option and I had talked myself into it. Now I'm reconsidering...
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

JoCoJenn - That's very good advice that I sort of executed in a haphazard way: the stone was originally mounted so I didn't know the extent of the damage until I had it unset. At that point I started gathering recut quotes and information. BGD required an appraisal before the stone could be submitted so I chose an appraiser from the Pricescope list and off I went.

That appraiser basically confirmed that, if I wanted to sell the stone, it needed to be recut. I planned to get the OEC recut, go to GIA, and leave the value up to an expert like Grace or Erica. (Now that I think of it, I also reached out to Erica at LAD, and she said something similar about the value being much improved by a recut so that is definitely the consensus.)

The appraiser thought the chip on the pavilion was shallow and said that I *might*, if I'm lucky, be able to keep the carat weight over 1.50ct. I was happy to hear that and excited to get the recut started.

After sending to BGD, there was a miscommunication and I received a recut evaluation / SARIN report for it to be made into an MRB saying that it would come down to 1.20ct. I had a call with Brian to discuss and he actually said that the chip is quite *deep* and that the SARIN didn't even account for it properly and the recut would more likely be 1.10ct as an MRB.

My rambling point being that, by the time the extent of the damage started to become clear, I was already so invested in the direction that I've been moving, it's now difficult to redirect :(

Brian also sensed my stress on that call and made me an offer to the buy the stone as material which he would recut and sell for his cape collection. Which I found very kind as I'm sure he didn't need to do that. But the quote would have me at a loss, so I ultimately declined.

Which brings me to your final point that, no, I don't need to sell it so it does seem to make sense to find a way to keep and enjoy it at least for a while. So thank you for helping me come to that conclusion :)

A pendant would be lovely and so would a CvB Jovlyn if I can possibly justify the additional expense!
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

It's a beautiful OEC! I'd repair the damage but leave the diamond as an OEC and as intact as possible. :)
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

Few years ago I recut two OEC with Brian Gavin, he removed all small chips and abrasions on the girdle, the polish was graded by GIA as very good/excellent. Although it was only "improvement", diamonds lost 7.5% of their weight, that in my opinion is significant amount. It cost me $350 per carat plus shipping. Diamonds remained the same OEC shape, but with faceted girdle. I found out that I don't like faceted girdle for old cut diamonds.
I would invest money in recut only if I keep the stone for myself. If my intention is to sell the stone, I would sell it as it is, leaving up the potential buyer to decide what to do.
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

Thanks ericad - I'm now convinced that keeping the stone as an OEC is the play. It's very helpful to hear everyone's thoughts and especially to hear from you, as a trade member who deals specifically in old stones :)

EvaEvans - Thanks for sharing your perspective as someone who also worked with BGD to touch up an old stone! Something that I was particularly hoping to avoid by sending it to BGD was an unknown outcome. I didn't understand that the SARIN report/recut estimate is only available for stones being cut into MRBs. I thought I would receive something similar for an OEC but, not so. I am uneasy about the results of a recut being a question mark but, Brian didn't think the girdle was in a safe condition to be set. I think I'd rather have someone fix the girdle now, than risk being turned away while trying to set the stone, or dealing with an unqualified jeweler who sets it but damages it in the process.
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

Diamondz1, if it was me, I would definitely 1) keep the stone Old Cut, 2) if I want the stone for me, recut it to remove the bad chip on the girdle, 3) when recut, keeping the girdle polished, not faceted
I think that Adam's cutter will do the best with the rehab of this stone! I read a story of a member here who was very pleased with the Adam's cutter work - minimum weight lost and beautiful outcome!
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

Thanks EvaEvans! My hope now is to repair what damage I can without compromising the integrity of the stone as an OEC. I've just heard back from Single Stone - they do offer recutting services, albeit more expensively than Brian. I called Adam but as you said, it looks like he's out of office so I'll try him next week. In the meantime I'm going to look for the OWD recut story you referenced. Very interesting!
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

Read at the end of page 6 of this thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/forum/sh...-reward-my-gorgeous-9-mm-oec-t185787-150.html
by CharmyPoo » 21 Mar 2013 21:37
Yuppie! My diamond has been rehabbed. Adam (Old World Diamonds) was awesome in helping me clean up my baby. There are no more chips, round outline, and a nice girdle now. I only seen a picture but Adam tells me it is more beautiful than ever! The original facet pattern was not impacted. I lost 11 pts which isn't bad at all considering other experts told me 25 pts.

I debated this a lot as I worried something will happen to the diamond since there is no insurance for this. I was also worried that the facet pattern would be impacted. Some say .. don't touch it because old stones are meant to have some nicks. There were 4 chips and bad enough for me to fix it. Plus, the girdle was a knife edge and with an open setting I am sure I would damage it more. I am very happy with the decision and Adam validated that for sure it was the right choice to do.

Now, I have to wait a few weeks before I can see her again. Thank you Adam!!!
Click to expand...
 
Re: Damaged OEC, in need of recut - but into what? MRB? [Pic

EvaEvans|1487296634|4130000 said:
Read at the end of page 6 of this thread:
https://www.pricescope.com/forum/sh...-reward-my-gorgeous-9-mm-oec-t185787-150.html
Click to expand...

Thanks! I can't believe I've never come across that before. Possibly Adam will be able to help, which is exciting. (Chamypoo's story is great, by the way, including the comedy of dealing with the seller, "...calling me at strange hours and refusing to hangup, telling me odd private stories..." Lol, I'm glad it was all worth it and everything worked out.)

I have the shipping info for Single Stone but will put a pin in it until Tuesday when I can hopefully reach Adam. Finger's crossed.
 
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