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D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G VVS2- VS2 ACA True Hearts and Arrows

420coffee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
28
As suggested this is a post about D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G ACA True Hearts and Arrows. OK so is it worth it to focus more on the color and clarity of the diamond. Or better to focus on the ACA True Hearts and Arrows but with lower grade color and clarity? Which will be best to make sure you have an outstanding look for your diamond? I'M going to be buying one soon and would like to find out which one is best.
 

tyty333

Super_Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Dec 17, 2008
Messages
21,662
Re: D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G VVS2- VS2 ACA True Hearts and Ar

1) Focus more on the cut because without a good cut a D/IF will look like [email protected]

2) Focus on cut because an Ideal cut stone that sparkles across the room will get more attention than a not so sparkly D/IF.

3) Focus on cut because you can see the difference in a well cut stone...you/others may not see the difference in a D vs a G or
an eye-clean SI1 vs a IF/VVS1.

I have seen ACAs in person and that are amazing! I also have a small super ideal branded stone from another vendor that I bought a
long time ago. It is a J/eye-clean SI1. People are always shocked to find out it is a J because it is just so white and sparkly
(and that is due to the cut).
 

gm89uk

Brilliant_Rock
Premium
Joined
May 26, 2015
Messages
1,449
Re: D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G VVS2- VS2 ACA True Hearts and Ar

You would never be able to see a difference between IF and VVS2 and can afford to lower in clarity before you see any effect. Generally most VS2s are eye clean. Many SI1s (especially through a reputable vendor that can advise you correctly) and rarely SI2s.

Colour is more a spectrum depending on how sensitive you are. I can see obvious difference between D and G but the G alone looks lovely a white, and the extra money certainly wasn't worth it for us as you don't walk around with a reference D stone to compare it to. Most people would be hard pressed to notice a difference between D and F even on direct comparison.

Cut is by far more important than the differences in the grades you mentioned, and if culture isn't a reason for such high colour and clarity requirements then your size can go up significantly, or your budget can go down a lot!
 

PintoBean

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Jul 27, 2011
Messages
6,377
Re: D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G VVS2- VS2 ACA True Hearts and Ar

I'd only look at the D-F IF diamonds if the cut is ideal, or else it's not really a good basis for comparison.
 

OoohShiny

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Apr 25, 2014
Messages
7,173
Re: D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G VVS2- VS2 ACA True Hearts and Ar

Going above VS1 is more about a stone being 'mind clean' than it being 'eye clean' - a VS1 should have no inclusions that are visible without a loupe, I believe, so buying VVS or IF is effectively paying more for absolutely guaranteed piece of mind.

For me, I needed that piece of mind, which is why I bought an F VVS2 stone. It is bright white in most lights because it is a branded cut (as the CBI, ACA, BGD, BGBlack etc are), therefore cut extremely well and reflects a lot of light (with a lot of fire and sparkle), and from the side it basically has zero colour. It apparently has a feather and another inclusion, IIRC, but even with a 30x loupe, it takes me 5 minutes to locate what I think might be it!

If you really do need a 'mind clean' stone, I would recommend dropping to VVS2 rather than IF, and staying at F or G, depending on how colour sensitive you / the recipient is.

For me, F VVS2 was the ideal place to be - colourless, with no inclusions that can be seen by the eye easily, but without the massive premium for D and VVS1 or IF.

I posted some pictures in a thread, if you are interested - click on my name and search for my topics, and you should be able to find the thread :)


Alternatively, the many excellent members of this forum may well be likely to find you an eye clean SI1 stone!
 

flyingpig

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 7, 2015
Messages
2,171
Re: D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G VVS2- VS2 ACA True Hearts and Ar

focus more on the color and clarity of the diamond. Or better to focus on the ACA True Hearts and Arrows
This is rather extreme. Focus on color/clarity vs focus on cut.

Why not both?

You don't have go with a super ideal brand to get a well cut diamond.
 

Wink

Ideal_Rock
Trade
Joined
May 3, 2001
Messages
7,472
Re: D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G VVS2- VS2 ACA True Hearts and Ar

In my opinion, the jewelry business is somewhat insane.

Without a loupe, from the top you can not tell the difference between IF-VS2, most often to SI1 and normally only with great difficulty to SI2. Price difference, enormous.

For the average person, it is difficult to tell the difference in colors until the diamonds being looked at are least two or three color grades apart. Price difference, enormous.

Within the same cut grade there are many eye visible variations. You can have pinfire flashes of color and sparkle, broad flashes of color and sparkle, very bright with nearly no dispersion, great balance of dispersion and brilliance, and this is especially true if you are looking at GIA XXX diamonds which will contain diamonds as low as AGS 5 cut grades. ANYONE can see these variations with no loupe or other equipment and no experience. Price difference, minor with great whining about why should the better cut diamond cost a few percent more than the garbage cut.

What do people worry about? Variations of color and clarity that can not be observed by most viewers.

Why? Because that is how the jewelry business has trained them to worry.

Insane. Completely and totally insane.

See, one day, long ago, before there was the science available to tell them what great cutting was really all about, all the jewelers somehow got this "brilliant" idea and said, "Hey, I have feet. I should shoot them!" Thus came about the training in the Four C's, the least and most unimportant of which was cut. Cut was so unimportant that for a generation or three it was considered the shape of the diamond. This is a round cut. That is a marquise cut.

Tolkowsky tried. He codified the cutting that was being done by some of the best American cutters. For years a few whackos bought from "crazy expensive" dealers like Kiger, Keppie and Kaplan who dealt in those silly ideal cut diamonds. We struggled to sell those expensive treasures against stores like Zales, who sold overpriced goods on credit at 70% off to people who could not figure out that 70% off was still more than a real diamond at a fair price.

Fast forward to early days of the Internet. People started asking things like, what is the pavilion angle? Many responded, "Who Cares?" After all, it was not listed on the GIA reports and AGS had not yet been invented as a laboratory, it was only an organization of jewelers espousing good quality and ethics as their guiding principles. Who did not know that these things mattered? Why Jewelers, of course, since most of them had not moved forward since they shot themselves in the feet years ago. Since they were still espousing, "Trust me, I am a professional," most of them never felt the need to keep up with their profession.

Fast forward further to today and you have a growing number of smart and responsible jewelers who are actually working hard to stay up with the science now involved in their industry. You will meet them at trade shows going to continuing education seminars. You will meet them on both public and professional forums exchanging ideas both with each other and the public. And you will hear MANY, MANY of them touting cut as the single most important C.

I am, obviously, one of them. Years ago, I heard one jeweler that I respect say that Cut was the only quality issue of the four Cs. The other Cs are all rarity issues. I agree with him. Yes, those factors have crazy effects on the price, but a Q color that is properly cut is a gorgeous diamond. It is so cheap compared to a higher color that is poorly cut that it seems almost an insult to the cutter that it is not worth more than the poorly cut and less beautiful diamond.

So, sorry for the rant, but I think that the top cut is the best buy and in reality, the best value. Go look at many diamonds, and see if you agree for you, that the best cuts make your eyes the most happy. If you do, you have your answer. If you like one with less sparkle, less fire, and less life, than that too, is, for you, an answer.

We can not make those choices for you, but you are lucky in that today, you can at least know those choices are available for you to choose from.

Wink

P.S. I am not really sorry for the rant, you have no idea how good it felt to let that all out!
 

420coffee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
28
Re: D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G VVS2- VS2 ACA True Hearts and Ar

Wow thanks to everybody who has posted I have more information. And Wink no worries about the rant, it's more like a well written essay. To anybody else you can also post more on your opinion one this.

Everyone's opinion always matter.
 

420coffee

Rough_Rock
Joined
Oct 23, 2016
Messages
28
Re: D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G VVS2- VS2 ACA True Hearts and Ar

What does your eyes say about these 2 diamonds.

screenshot_20161028-133309_0.png
 

lb0424

Rough_Rock
Joined
Jun 16, 2015
Messages
51
Re: D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G VVS2- VS2 ACA True Hearts and Ar

Like the one on the right better if I were to choose.
 

pyramid

Ideal_Rock
Premium
Joined
Nov 10, 2002
Messages
4,607
Re: D-F IF diamonds vs. F-G VVS2- VS2 ACA True Hearts and Ar

You can't change the color or clarity but a cutter can change the cut, that is what the vendors here do all the time when they recut older brilliant cut diamonds to make them ideal cut and H & A.
 
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