Custom Halo Opinions Please!

[dc888]

Hi fellow members,

My gf and I have waited just over a month for our custom halo design to be completed. We provided the Harry Winston halo as a reference (thanks Angelainjapan). The gf fell in love with the delicate appearance of this ring. With no real consultation(aside from the pictures), or periodic follow up, the ring was constructed. There''s no denying it looks beautiful, but it doesn''t look as refined or as delicate as anticipated. This can be attributed to the way the melee is set. In the HW setting, the melee seems to be bead set, and the band is very thin. This is shown below:

The melee in our custom halo is set in a chunkier fashion. The band appears alot thicker. The melee appears to be encased by metal, which appears to overshadow the melee. Instead of beads, they''re more like crescents, which my gf finds distracting.

Are we being unreasonable to want it refined? It would certainly give it a more delicate look. We have seen the custom works from other posters, and we know it is attainable. This was to be the gf''s dream ring. Should she settle? We appreciate everyone''s feedback.

Thank you.

 

[JulieN]

It is unclear if you are unhappy with it just from the mag. pictures. If don't have it in hand, definitely wait for the product to judge.

 

[luvmyhalo]

It looks beautiful! I would wait and see it in person. I have a feeling, the diamonds will outshine the metal when you see it IRL.

 

[dc888]

Thank you for your replies so far.

There is no denying the ring is beautiful. The question is whether or not we should settle for the less delicate appearance of the ring. From our pictures, the metal seems to overwhelm the melee. This is not apparent in the HW examples provided. As for seeing the ring in person, that will not be possible without agreeing we are satisfied with the finished product (it was ordered through the internet). Please continue to share your insights and opinions. Thank you.

 

[denverboy]

you may get a variety of opinions, but in the end really YOU know the answer b/c only you know if you are comfortable and satisfied or not. If you are unhappy, get it changed. The only reason i would NOT get it changed is if it adds a substantial amount to the cost or the jeweler gets mad at you and things get complicated, then it may make you more unhappy.

 

[stone_seeker]

what size melee did you use in the halo? I just had an HW-like halo done and it looks amazing and very delicate.

We used 1.1mm stones in the halo and they are set by hand in a shared prong style with diamond all the way to the edge, no metal. I cant quite tell if yours is shared prong so there may be some extra metal.

As an FYI - harry winston ises even smaller melee in the halo (half pointers or 1.0mm) and their bands are 1.5mm wide. I made my band slightly thicker (1.8mm) and it came out great.

Keep in mind, pictures enlarge everything and make things look bigger/chunkier. You probably should wait until you see it in person before getting too upset.

 

[arjunajane]

I agree, you really need to see it in person - pictures can be so deceiving. The first pic is taken in sunlight with all the diamonds shining and "blending in" to the prongs. The pics of your ring are taken under much more critical lighting conditions imho.
The pic you showed of the "dream ring" seems to be set the same way as yours, with I believe fishtail pave?

I would hazard a guess Stone Seeker is onto something about the size of the melee - this could be the difference you are perceiving..

I would bet that once you see it in person, it will look very much like what you wanted. Like you said, it really it is a beautiful ring and looks to be very nicely made!

Wait... if you still don''t like it in person than look into changing..

just my 2c

 

[dc888]

Once again thanks for your replies. Stone seeker, I was informed our melee are .01 ct, so they should be 1.3mm, according to a guide I referenced in the forums here. However, the melee seem alot smaller, possibly due to the thicker metal. Would you be able to post pictures of what your setting looks like? I''m interested to see what your custom setting looks like for reference purposes. Thanks again.

 

[dc888]

I''m trying to do more research on the way the melee are set. I''ve seen various techniques ranging from pave bead set, shared prongs, fish tail...etc. However, I''m having difficulty determining what type of setting our custom ring would fall under. The non-bead like setting....is this common or uncommon...better or worse than the traditional beads/prongs? I''ve attached a zoomed image for your convenience. I apologize in advance for the fuzziness of the image, but that''s the best picture provided to us.

 

[kcoursolle]

I would *definitely* wait to judge this until you see it in person. These types of things look sooooo much more delicate in real life.

 

[munkafoo]

oh ...i think i see what dc888 is talking about, the prongs or the metal that holds the melee in the halo seem to wrap around the borders of the melee. i am more accustomed to seeing nubbin like or bead like settings to hold the melee in place.

 

[stone_seeker]

needs shared prongs to reduce metal

 

[munkafoo]

what is the mm width on your band??? and what is the mm width on the angelainjapan ring? im trying to do some research for my man so he can get mine PERFECT!!!

 

[DMBsGirl]

i think it''s beautiful. this pic is highly magnified. I bet it is a beauty in person! My melee is set in a similar style to yours and it is extremely delicate IRL.

 

[dc888]

Hi,

Munkafoo: I believe the Angelainjapan HW ring has a band of 1.5 mm. Given our melee is 1.3mm...and the metal in the pictures appear to be almost as big as the melee, the band should be over 2mm I imagine. I guess I'll have to confirm with the jeweler, but in any case, it's not dainty looking, albeit still very pretty.

DMBSGirl: What is the style/technique your melee is set? I know there are a number of ways melee can be set and it gets overwhelming...pave, micro pave, bead set, fish tail, shared prong...etc.

 

[DMBsGirl]

not sure what the exact term is for the way my melee is set..sorry.

 

[munkafoo]

hi dc888. my opinion to your initial questions is no you shouldn''t have to settle, and i don''t think it''s too much to ask to have it made the way that you want it to be. is there a reason why the jeweler made it differently?? the ring sure is a beauty, but what is important is how your lady feels about it, as she will be the one wearing it and staring at it at every waking moment(at least i would be).

 

[dc888]

Hi munk,

Thank you for your opinion. I''m not totally sure why the melee in the ring was set in that style. Perhaps the maker had concerns about ethics/copyright (maybe others can chime in on this subject). However, numerous other custom designs I''ve seen have mimicked the dainty/delicate look using beadset (or shared prongs). Also, I''m sure less obvious design changes could have been made to appease the maker''s moral conscience. As you noted, my gf is pretty adamant the ring is set according to what we asked for, as she believes a ring with less metal showing will look better on her small fingers.

In terms of custom work, has anybody else had experience with ring revisions? What was the process from beginning to end?

Thanks

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 8/24/2008 10:27:21 AM
Author: dc888
Hi munk,


Thank you for your opinion. I''m not totally sure why the melee in the ring was set in that style. Perhaps the maker had concerns about ethics/copyright (maybe others can chime in on this subject). However, numerous other custom designs I''ve seen have mimicked the dainty/delicate look using beadset (or shared prongs). Also, I''m sure less obvious design changes could have been made to appease the maker''s moral conscience. As you noted, my gf is pretty adamant the ring is set according to what we asked for, as she believes a ring with less metal showing will look better on her small fingers.


In terms of custom work, has anybody else had experience with ring revisions? What was the process from beginning to end?


Thanks

DC -

It seems like you are struggling/frustrated with this issue and rightly so. I was obsessed with making sure my halo was delicate and sent my jeweler countless pictures and samples. Your ring right now is set in fishtail style - notice from the side shots you can see a little "V" which looks like a fishtail. Fishtail is more substantial and good for larger stones.

You are aiming for bead set. But not every jeweler can do amazing bead set work. Its not that difficult but bead setting tiny melee requires time and patience and you should ask your jeweler for examples of some eternity bands / halos that they have done in bead set style, shared prong, channel, bezel, etc. This was you can see for yourself the difference. Bead set is by far the most delicate.

As for melee size, most jewelers recommend 1 pointers which are 1.3mm in size. I went with smaller because I''m not trying to add any width to my center stone but just want accents. You should be able to go as low as half pointers which are 1mm but can do anything in between (i.e. 1mm, 1.1mm, 1.2mm, etc.). Some folks think the half pointers "cheapen" the ring but I dont think so. Harry Winston uses them on some of theirs but they also would go larger - again, how delicate they look depend on the setting. So long as their is no metal showing and diamonds right to the edge, any size will be fine. Cartier uses 1.3mm (one pointers) in their halos and they look very delicate as well. Half-pointers are really really small.

As for band width, 2mm is too much if your girlfriend wants delicate. 1.5mm is too thin IMO but is fine for many people including Harry Winston. 1.7 or 1.8mm will be a good compromise between delicacy and sturdiness. Many jewelers dont like going under 2mm but I dont care. If it bends 2 years down the road, they can fix it.

I''m sorry I dont have pics of mine yet (not until next week) but I hope this info helps. If your ring is already done, getting it thinner will likely require them to take all the stones out and melt the metal again to get everything to your specifications. They cant make the shank thinner without starting over - and frankly I would want a "do-over". I dont know what your time requirements are but I wouldnt settle and you shouldnt have to lose sleep over this. This will be worn for a lifetime so a few extra weeks to get it right wont hurt.

 

[stone_seeker]

here is a great thread going over the whole fish tail vs bead set look so you can see:

https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/michael-b-experts-please-reply.48248/

 

[dc888]

Hi stoneseeker,

I actually just posted in your thread a minute ago. Thank you for your detailed response. You''re a wealth of information, and I appreciate your insights very much. Hopefully, I''ll make some headway with my jeweler soon, as I''ve overshot my proposal date of 8/8/2008 (asian thing) already. Getting the ring completely redone seems to be the only recourse as you''ve suggested. However, I do feel bad because the ring IS beautiful (just not what the gf wants), and because the experience with the jeweler has been positive up until this point.

Currently, I''m at a stand still because I''m being told the "fish tail" style was implemented to avoid breaking ethical/copyright boundaries. However, that decision was made unilaterally without my input, and fails to achieve the delicate/dainty appearance we wanted.

Regards,

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 8/24/2008 1:42:26 PM
Author: dc888
Hi stoneseeker,


I actually just posted in your thread a minute ago. Thank you for your detailed response. You're a wealth of information, and I appreciate your insights very much. Hopefully, I'll make some headway with my jeweler soon, as I've overshot my proposal date of 8/8/2008 (asian thing) already. Getting the ring completely redone seems to be the only recourse as you've suggested. However, I do feel bad because the ring IS beautiful (just not what the gf wants), and because the experience with the jeweler has been positive up until this point.


Currently, I'm at a stand still because I'm being told the 'fish tail' style was implemented to avoid breaking ethical/copyright boundaries. However, that decision was made unilaterally without my input, and fails to achieve the delicate/dainty appearance we wanted.


Regards,

Your ring most certainly is beautiful and I also happen to like fish tail settings for certain styles. I was just responding to your concerns as to the differences between your and angelainjapan's ring. I also know completely what you are saying since I thought I had everything perfect several times and the gf saw something better or wanted more delicate. In the end, despite my own thoughts, I wanted her to be happy since she needs to wear it so i went through several changes.

as for the copyright thing, I dont know what that means or if your jeweler is just using that as an excuse for some reason. No one owns the copyright to any style and certainly no ones the right to usng bead set. If he doesnt want to copy something exact, the fact that you are using 1.3mm melee is by far a big enough difference between your ring and the HW ring that angelainjapan has. But you are right, he should have consulted you first before making such a large design change (for any reason) without your input.

ETA - I must say that pics on these websites enlarge things so much that its hard to make final assessments without seeing in person. As I said earlier, since your ring is made, perhaps you should ask if you could see it in person first so you and your gf can see if its still not delicate enough. I have seen pics of rings on the web that look VERY different and MUCH more delicate in real life.

 

[Rhino]

Caught this thread and thought I'd like to add my professional input because there are many retailer's who are asked similar questions that have been brought up and also a couple of questions dc888.

Has the jeweler/designer making your ring promise you a duplicate of the Harry Winston ring, such that the precise detail of the ring down to inspecting it at 20-50x magnification would be identical? I ask because if you provided pictures of a particular company's design, no jeweler/designer who is looking to avoid a law suite is going to duplicate it to that level of detail. That is copywrite infringement. If you want a Harry Winston ring such as angelainJapan then there is only one place in the world to purchase a Harry Winston ring and that is you go and pay the price for it at Harry Winston. Anyone who makes or promises to duplicate another firms design down to such minutia is asking for trouble.

I feature a number of designers rings and my staff works with them often such as Mark Morrell, Ritani, Vatche, Tacori etc. There are ring companies that have made their own independant versions of one of some of these brands particular styles (and more than one!). Take for example the Vatche X prong. There are knock - offs galore. How far or close they come to the original that infringes copywrite I couldn't say for sure but I do know there are companies being dragged through court. Point is ... even with all the companies that make rings similar ... if you want a Vatche X prong and you want it duplicated down to 20-50x magnification, then there is only one place in the world to get one and that is through an authorized Vatche distributor. If you ask or demand a jeweler/designer to duplicate a Vatche X prong you are asking that person you are working with to break the law. Even if they are not brought to court, if that jeweler/designer has an ounce of integrity they will still not honor your request unless they follow a different moral code (and yes they exist).

The pictures you have posted of the ring you have had made appears were taken in diffuse lighting while the pictures you posted were in direct lighting and not as zoomed in. Of course you are going to see more detail zoomed in and in softer lighting. Another correction too is that the prongs on your ring are not fishtail. Fishtail settings involve 3 tiny prongs in each corner which the ring you've had made lacks (unless there is some other definition of fishtail I am unaware of). Also, the prongs on the inside of the halo are bead set.

I would be willing to bet that if you had both rings side by side and inspected under the same lighting and 1x human vision magnification you would see little to no difference. Would you happen to have a picture of that ring taken in a more realisitic perspective? Say ... on a hand or being held by human hands? If you were promised a ring that is very similar, yet not an exact duplicate then you should consider the demands you are requesting. If the jeweler has any integrity the ring will look as perfect anyone elses who makes similar because it will never be exactly like Harry Winston's unless you want to work with immoral and unethical people, and even at that there is no guarantee it will be a duplicate or even look as good.

Peace,

 

[Beacon]

I think your ring looks very nice. I have a question: are the color photos at the start of your post an actual HW ring? And then are they are followed by black and white pics of your ring that was made?

I think your ring was made very similar to the HW if I have the pictures right in my mind. I think it will help if you get photos of the new ring you had made that are in color and similar to the one that you started the post with. That will give a better indication of how comparable it is.

To me it certainly looks very similar and like a nice ring.

 

[dc888]

Thanks again for everyone's insights.

Rhino, thanks for providing your thoughts on ethics/copyright. A custom ring was sold to me. However, I had little opportunity to provide my input in the custom design. All that was required were the pictures of the setting, and the ring size, so naturally I assumed the ring would be constructed similarly. Regardless, the gf and I expected the ring would have been beadset to ensure the delicate/dainty appearance of the ring. That was not the case. In fact, I'm unclear as to how the melee is set for this ring. If it is beadset on the inside of the halo, the beads lack uniformity, as they appear to be different shapes and sizes. According to this article bead set tutorial I should be aware these potential problem areas. Angelainjapan's ring, the beads look pretty uniform.

In anycase, I'm not even sure how ethics/copyright come into play with regards to how melee is set. As stone seeker pointed out, there isn't a copyright on bead set. If the designer was concerned with copyright infringement, 1) we should have been made aware (as I probably would gone with another designer), or 2) he should have consulted me and asked what aspects of the ring I would be willing to change (which there are many). The ring's melee size is an obvious difference as stone seeker pointed out, the ring is in white gold as opposed to platinum, and it originally had a sizing bar on the band instead of a full eternity.

Ultimately, I have to satisfy my gf's wishes. I really do believe this all could have been avoided, if there was more communication between the designer and myself, but it was their choice not mine to keep the flow of information to a minimum (seems contrary to most custom works I read about on this board). In this custom design, I've had little or no control over what to customize. I've paid for something that is beautiful, but not what we envisioned. I think it is fair to say, nobody would settle for a product that doesn't meet one's expectations. Should I just ask the designer to redo the setting in shared prongs like stone seekers ring to achieve the delicate/dainty look we envision? That would avoid any ethical/copyright issues, and satisfy the gf's wishes. This would seem like the most reasonable solution.

I think TheDoctor (who I assume is a designer) said it best in ILuvEmerald's thread Help with custom setting please

"Maintain high expectations, and don't be satisfied with anything less than your definition of perfect. Challenge the jeweller to produce a fine piece of work, and they will either perform admirably, or you will refuse to accept a compromise. It's really quite simple. Don't be anxiously waiting for delivery and accept what they give you because you can't wait any longer. Be critical, and award good work with kudos. If the work doesn't meet your expectations, chances are it can't be remedied by the same jeweller. Keep your money and move on.

www.DavidKeelingJewellery.com " TheDoctor

Beacon, your assumptions are correct. However,the photos posted of my ring are in color actually. As I've stated, I'm not disputing the quality or how beautiful the ring is. It is HW-like, but just a less delicate version. I've seen other custom works that are equally delicate/dainty looking, with minor changes. However, the gf is unwilling to "settle" for a ring that is not set in a dainty/delicate fashion. She insists there is too much metal, which is a function of how the melee is set. To reduce metal as stone seeker has suggested, the ring should have been set in bead set or shared prong. The designer/fabricator for some reason decided to choose a different setting style. The setting style though, happens to be a VERY personal preference, and I believe most people will attest to that. No one will dispute the beauty of a fish tail setting, but if you want a bead set, you should get a bead set.

 

[stone_seeker]

Rhino, thanks for your input. However, as someone who knows a lot about copyright law, I must disagree with the notion of having an HW-like ring somehow infringes on Harry''s copyrights. Haloing a cushion cut is not unique and the concept is most certainly not owned by Harry Winston. He may have made it popular, but he was not the first. Furthermore, HW will change any aspect of the band (increase width, etc.) or use larger melee in the halo if you desire - so even they aren''t wed to a particular style.

What is copyright infringement, however, is if some independent jeweler sold rings under the HW name, in an HW box, with the HW logo engraved on the inside of the shank. Sam goes for Tacori, etc. Using thsoe names without permission would be violation of trademarks. Even though the styles themselves arent unique and subject to replication (just ask Band-Aid, Qtip, Xerox, etc.), the brand has value due to the company''s investment in marketing and the perceived quality associated with buying "an original" Vatche X Prong or Tiffany Novo. There are very few copyrighted styles of jewelry - most rings are circles, made with metal and use 4-6 prongs to hold a center stone.

As for the issue of fishtail vs. bead set, there may be many definitions of fish tail but my jeweler showed me both versions and the fish tail had much more metal in between the melee than the all bead set version did. You would know more about this than me for sure. I am not a jeweler but just relaying what my jeweler taught me second hand.

Also dc - you are correct, there are many issues with making sure the metal is all made uniformly and the stones are set properly and that just comes with experience and from a jeweler who wants his work to be perfection which takes a lot of time and precision work.

 

[SilverLily]

I think your ring is beautiful and I doubt you will see that much metal in person. It will still look dainty. I wonder if setting the melee that way would make it more secure? It seems like you would be less likely to lose a stone in your custom setting vs. the HW setting.

 

[stone_seeker]

Date: 8/26/2008 9:06:28 AM
Author: SilverLily
I think your ring is beautiful and I doubt you will see that much metal in person. It will still look dainty. I wonder if setting the melee that way would make it more secure? It seems like you would be less likely to lose a stone in your custom setting vs. the HW setting.

I agree. I forgot to add that in my prior post. You must see this in person because it WILL look very delicate if the melee are only 1 pointers. I would not go bigger than that if you want to stay delicate. The pictures make everything look enormous and chunky. Even the HW picture at the top looks much bigger than it does in person.

 

[dc888]

Hello fellow members, and thanks for the thoughts/opinions,

Stone Seeker: Thank you for your invaluable insights again. Hopefully, your rationalization on copyright law will put things into perspective for the designer. To be honest, I didn''t even realize the designer was concerned about copyright/ethics when he took on the job. Had I known, I would have gone elsewhere to avoid this hassle.

Silverlily-I too think the ring is beautiful. That was my first impression. However, the gf (who will be the one wearing the ring), noticed the details immediately, and was not satisfied. It is apparent from the pictures the ring, is more metally than expected. Given that a custom ring was purchased, she insists we should be entitled to get what we want. We haven''t been demanding in anyway, aside from providing the pictures and ring size. However, instead of offering solutions to resolving matters for my gf, I''m being told the ring was "set" this way to avoid copyright infringement, which as Stone Seeker has pointed out is not really a concern. Furthermore, seeing it person is not a possibility (unless I agree that I am satisifed), as this was purchased solely on trust through the internet.

As it stands, the gf wanted and continues to want exactly what you have Stone Seeker.

""I am sticking with 1.8mm shank with half pointers on it and maybe will go to 1.3mm (one-pointers) for the
halo. So long as they are bead set and no metal showing it should still look very delicate with the 1.3mm halo.""


Thanks for your help :p Hopefully, everything will work out, as I have faith our jewelers reputation.

 

[Gypsy]

The metal is protective and likely isn''t even visible IRL. I''ve got similarly set stones, wanted something like the HW. And in person the ring''s metal doesn''t show at all. Personally, I think you GF is being slightly unreasonable. Of course, the fact that you have to accept a ring you haven''t seen in person is unreasonable too. Overall. It''s a beautiful ring. The workmanship, even this detailed and magnified looks beautiful. And in person it would likely knock your socks off. The point size is much bigger than the HW, but I have 1.3mm in mine-- and MY point size is larger by far the HW I compared mine to last time I was in that store. You aren''t going to get an exact replica.