Couple uses guns to protect daughter

[MMtwo]

anytime redwood66

For the record, I do not have a gun...yet. I am still deciding if I want to have one, which one I want and if I can get it bedazzled . Owning a gun is a deeply personal decision I want to have control to make. The government is becoming a nanny and my neighbours are becoming Ms Kravitz. I don't like the universal collective version of America, where individualism is only upheld for popular or "cool" agendas. I want the right to be a religious zealot toting a gun with a bad mullet and a legalized doobie if I wanna be...or America is not really free.


Getting off my soapbox...I tried to stop, I did

 

[Dancing Fire]

again, don't want/like guns, don't get one.
no one is forcing you to defend yourself or telling you how to do it. it is a personal decision for you to make....and I will make my own, thank you. pretty much like the abortion issue: don't like them? don't have one or get into a situation in which you need one. make that decision for yourself, but don't try making it for anyone else.

+1 ...I must be sick today ... I'd agree with MZ...

 

[movie zombie]

again, don't want/like guns, don't get one.
no one is forcing you to defend yourself or telling you how to do it. it is a personal decision for you to make....and I will make my own, thank you. pretty much like the abortion issue: don't like them? don't have one or get into a situation in which you need one. make that decision for yourself, but don't try making it for anyone else.

+1 ...I must be sick today ... I'd agree with MZ...

may you be sick more often, DF!!! LOL

 

[LaraOnline]

.....Submissive? Nope. But visualising myself as a murderer, going out and buying a murder-tool and keeping it in my house or carrying it about 'just in case' I need to murder? I might as well fly to Mars, because a murderer I am not.

so, Lara, in your mind a legal law abiding gun owner by your definition is a murder despite not having killed anyone?
that is one great big cultural difference!

The Dalai Lama said, "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."

good enough for me.

No, but by being prepared to introduce a gun into an already violent situation, I am prepared for someone to be murdered - either myself or my assailant. That means I must be prepared to murder.

At what point do I decide to murder? When they tap me on the shoulder in the dark of night? As they grab me about the head?
I'd reckon I couldn't leave it much longer, or it would be too late for me to use it properly.

I'd have to be genuinely in fear for my life. Does that mean I can shoot a rapist? Before or after the crime?
At what point do I get to play God?

All this is a problem for me. And in Australia there's a fairly massive chance it would be a problem for a jury too.
So...unless I can just wave it about and yell 'FREEZE muther******' and solve all my problems...pepper spray is looking good at this point.

Also I have to say the crimes that are being mentioned in this thread are really horrific crimes. They would be famous crimes in Australia.

 

[LaraOnline]

Anyway I'm probably not helping anyone by participating in this thread.
I don't live in the US.
I do feel a 'social responsibility' to the people of the US and to the children of the US, though, as I would to any other people and children of the world.
I also worry about the US gun culture being a 'bad influence' on the nutters that we have, I would hate to see any school invasions over here.

 

[redwood66]

.....Submissive? Nope. But visualising myself as a murderer, going out and buying a murder-tool and keeping it in my house or carrying it about 'just in case' I need to murder? I might as well fly to Mars, because a murderer I am not.

so, Lara, in your mind a legal law abiding gun owner by your definition is a murder despite not having killed anyone?
that is one great big cultural difference!

The Dalai Lama said, "If someone has a gun and is trying to kill you, it would be reasonable to shoot back with your own gun."

good enough for me.

No, but by being prepared to introduce a gun into an already violent situation, I am prepared for someone to be murdered - either myself or my assailant. That means I must be prepared to murder.

At what point do I decide to murder? When they tap me on the shoulder in the dark of night? As they grab me about the head?
I'd reckon I couldn't leave it much longer, or it would be too late for me to use it properly.

I'd have to be genuinely in fear for my life. Does that mean I can shoot a rapist? Before or after the crime?
At what point do I get to play God?

All this is a problem for me. And in Australia there's a fairly massive chance it would be a problem for a jury too.
So...unless I can just wave it about and yell 'FREEZE muther******' and solve all my problems...pepper spray is looking good at this point.

Also I have to say the crimes that are being mentioned in this thread are really horrific crimes. They would be famous crimes in Australia.

The bolded statement is a requirement by law here and is taught to you if you have taken good self defense gun courses. If you shoot someone and if you cannot prove this to law enforcement then the DA will likely prosecute you for murder. So to think that the average CCW carrying, coherent and morally sound US citizen is just itching to shoot someone is ludicrous. All my courses stress that you should find a way to get away and the gun is the last resort. I don't want to shoot anyone but if I am in fear for my life or the lives of my family you bet your ass I will. I do not believe like some that I should shoot someone to protect property. Life is more precious to me than that, even the life of a scumbag, because I could not live with that for the rest of my life. Carrying a weapon is a huge responsibility and should not be taken lightly.

Now if it is a zombie apocalypse and I need to protect my food stores then I will shoot all of you who try to steal it.

LaraOnline - no you should never have a gun if all you want to do is wave it about.

 

[iLander]

I used to be seriously anti-gun. I thought they were the root of all evil.

Then I started noticing the stabbings and other crazy killings.

Now I just think evil is the root of all evil.

And that violence as entertainment is evil.

All those first-person shooter video games tend to desensitize people, it breaks down a critical psychological barrier for them; the barrier of not killing other humans. Or going to the gun range and shooting at human shapes. What was wrong with circle targets and ducks? The idea that "I may have to (or can) shoot another human, I should know how to do it" quickly gets twisted in a sick mind. It's easy for the sick to think "I can and I will shoot humans, now that I know how." Also, a gun is a powerful thing, it makes the user feel powerful. Some damaged brains of the powerless, the picked on, the mentally ill, start to imagine that power directed against the humans that cause their torment.

I'm not against guns or gun ownership. I am against guns being associated with the killing of humans.

 

[movie zombie]

Lara, self-defense is not murder.
look it up.

I understand you. I really do. I used to be very pacifistic. I would not have defended myself against attack.
but I don't think like that now.

if attacked, it is not murder to kill the other person.
no, I'm not anxious to do that. i'll try anything and everything before I resort to my gun.
but once I have the gun out, I must be prepared to use it and it must be in defense of my life....not property.

given your reasoning, then each time a person has sex they are an abortionist if they use birth control......

a gun is a tool. birth control is a tool. we all make our own decisions.
the history of AU is very different than the US. AU does not have a Bill of Rights and throughout its history has had very limited gun ownership. those penal colonists certainly weren't supposed to have guns!
so, yes, there is a very different mindset between the two countries.
we fought the british for freedom; AU remains a part of the british commonwealth.
yes, a very different mindset.

 

[justginger]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/is-gun-violence-a-public-health-issue/?utm_content=bufferfd030&utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook.com&utm_campaign=buffer

How do those who are more liberal in their views of gun ownership feel about recognising similarities between patterns of gun violence and infectious disease? Do you think it is considered a public health risk?

I very much like the idea presented in the last two paragraphs. Establishing community members who have ties to a great number of people to be trained and on the watch for signs of violence. There are always all these 'signs' we see after an event, but perhaps if someone is actually specifically responsible for reporting and/or investigating them, we could prevent future violent events.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

Its rather funny that discussions are always about the gun owners- who are not a problem. Shootings, even including the mentally ill, are not coming from this group of people, so why does the discussion center around that.

In my neck of the woods and in Chicago, we can vote to keep our towns, or precincts dry or wet(alcohol). The Gov't declares enterprise zones so some areas are eligible for grants for public housing, sidewalks and business opportunities if they comply with certain parameters set forth. Even those that live in Public housing are supposed to be evicted and lose their benefits if convicted of a crime, or pose a danger to the rest of the community. If an illegal gun were found the whole family would lose their housing benefits. This was supposed to make the parents keep the children in line.

If the community(voters) allow the govt to come in and search all homes after gang shootings we would find(I think) many, many illegal guns, and make arrests accordingly. I propose a lockdown on neighborhoods, just as they do in schools, and the search begins. I see it as probable cause for the intrusion. The people who do the marching in the neighborhoods--let them vote on it. They might win,
The criminals should not win.

If we can put Al Capone and the rest of the group away on Income tax evasion, we need to find the probable cause to lockdown neighborhoods.

Its not law abiding citizens we have to argue with or about. Just think of ways to stop the criminal.


Annette

 

[redwood66]

Except that "neighborhood lockdown" is in direct violation of the 4th Amendment

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.[1]


I totally understand the outrage when the mass killings happen. I am also outraged but not at guns or gun owners. It is all so sad and depressing that a human being can commit these heinous crimes against others. We can all have these discussions here about what should be done but anything that is done has to take the Constitution and the Bill of Rights into account. They were written to guard against the slow erosion or outright removal of our rights as a people. When the people allow government to etch away at them a piece at a time in the interest (guise) of public safety pretty soon they will no longer exist.

 

[ksinger]

What else needs be said?

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts

 

[redwood66]

What else needs be said?

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts

I can appreciate humor but if I were in that audience I would be pissed because that dumbass had his finger on the trigger of that AR the whole time. And he pointed it in their direction. I post this to help those of you that do not know.

Most important rules of firearm safety.

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target - This is the absolute Golden Rule and why accidental discharges happen killing innocent people or the gun owner themselves. DO NOT break this rule EVER!!!!!
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
—Jeff Cooper

 

[ksinger]

What else needs be said?

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts

I can appreciate humor but if I were in that audience I would be pissed because that dumbass had his finger on the trigger of that AR the whole time. And he pointed it in their direction. I post this to help those of you that do not know.

Most important rules of firearm safety.

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
—Jeff Cooper

The former gun seller I live with- the one who can identify just about any gun in a movie from a 1/2 second clip and tell you if it's period/real or not, says it's a prop, pointing out various parts that are missing. Even I noticed the barrel BENDS when he points it at the black guy.

 

[redwood66]

What else needs be said?

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts

I can appreciate humor but if I were in that audience I would be pissed because that dumbass had his finger on the trigger of that AR the whole time. And he pointed it in their direction. I post this to help those of you that do not know.

Most important rules of firearm safety.

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
—Jeff Cooper

The former gun seller I live with- the one who can identify just about any gun in a movie from a 1/2 second clip and tell you if it's period/real or not, says it's a prop, pointing out various parts that are missing. Even I noticed the barrel BENDS when he points it at the black guy.

See rule #1. I won't assume any gun is not real.

 

[Maria D]

No civilian has automatic weapons. Automatic weapons are totally different than semi automatic, and yes we do need to make the distinction on this. Automatic weapons as far as *I* know, are military. If you're walking around w/an automatic weapon, you are a criminal. When you pull the trigger once, a semi automatic fires once. When you pull the trigger on an automatic weapon once, that sucker is going to bambambambambam until every round is gone or until you release the trigger.
...

That's a bit disingenuous, isn't it? Anyone who really thinks that in a civilian setting there's a huge difference between semi-automatic and automatic weapons needs to go to youtube and search on "bump fire." Here's one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjZrEvqfagg

Amazing how many times good kids havin' some fun can pull that trigger! bambambambambam

After the Newtown Massacre any hope of having stricter gun laws in the U.S. died with the victims. What could happen that could be more horrendous? A deranged young man walked into a school and mowed down 20 children and 6 adults in 11 F*CKING MINUTES. If THAT didn't get us to restrict ownership of semi-automatic rifles nothing will. The gun violence that's happened since? *yawn* Click on a cute cat meme instead.

edited to add: thanks ksinger - hilarious!

 

[redwood66]

That sick young man used weapons stolen from his mother. Had she survived it is possible she would have been prosecuted for not securing her weapons from her mentally unstable son. Her lack of responsible gun ownership to secure them helped him to do what he did and she paid the ultimate price for it.

 

[Maria D]

That sick young man used weapons stolen from his mother. Had she survived it is possible she would have been prosecuted for not securing her weapons from her mentally unstable son. Her lack of responsible gun ownership to secure them helped him to do what he did and she paid the ultimate price for it.

I don't give a flying f*k about the price that nimwit paid. I'm glad she died, only wish it had been last instead of first so that she could have known the results of the recreational time she spent with her son. If only she had had a USEFUL hobby she could have shared with him....

 

[redwood66]

That sick young man used weapons stolen from his mother. Had she survived it is possible she would have been prosecuted for not securing her weapons from her mentally unstable son. Her lack of responsible gun ownership to secure them helped him to do what he did and she paid the ultimate price for it.

I don't give a flying f*k about the price that nimwit paid. I'm glad she died, only wish it had been last instead of first so that she could have known the results of the recreational time she spent with her son. If only she had had a USEFUL hobby she could have shared with him....

So do you categorize all parents who spend time with their kids at this USELESS hobby as nimwits?

 

[ksinger]

What else needs be said?

http://thedailyshow.cc.com/videos/14muzr/2nd-amendment-manners-do-s-and-don-ts

I can appreciate humor but if I were in that audience I would be pissed because that dumbass had his finger on the trigger of that AR the whole time. And he pointed it in their direction. I post this to help those of you that do not know.

Most important rules of firearm safety.

1. All guns are always loaded.
2. Never let the muzzle cover anything you are not willing to destroy.
3. Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on the target.
4. Be sure of your target and what is beyond it.
—Jeff Cooper

The former gun seller I live with- the one who can identify just about any gun in a movie from a 1/2 second clip and tell you if it's period/real or not, says it's a prop, pointing out various parts that are missing. Even I noticed the barrel BENDS when he points it at the black guy.

See rule #1. I won't assume any gun is not real.

I'm not the "gun person" in the house, but if I can identify it as a fake within the 1st 15 seconds, I'd think most people could.

And it wasn't humor. It was scathing satire of the first ilk. It struck a chord with me because my personal experience is that I never saw a black person at a show, and in the 15 years he worked them, my husband does not remember any (although he concedes one or two may have done so simply because it's possible), and that they almost never came in the shop either. And back in the day before the NRA started courting women, being a single woman walking through a show was an adventure too. I tried it. Once. FREAKY.

 

[redwood66]

I don't like gun shows and we don't go to them. I will not comment on race in regard to guns. My experience with inmates was pretty much all races committed crimes with guns - white, black, brown, asian.

 

[Maria D]

That sick young man used weapons stolen from his mother. Had she survived it is possible she would have been prosecuted for not securing her weapons from her mentally unstable son. Her lack of responsible gun ownership to secure them helped him to do what he did and she paid the ultimate price for it.

I don't give a flying f*k about the price that nimwit paid. I'm glad she died, only wish it had been last instead of first so that she could have known the results of the recreational time she spent with her son. If only she had had a USEFUL hobby she could have shared with him....

So do you categorize all parents who spend time with their kids at this USELESS hobby as nimwits?

Apparently you don't, so please enjoy this heartwarming video of a lovely young couple teaching their two year old daughter how to bump fire on "take your daughter to the shooting range" day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYqyq70b6BE

 

[redwood66]

That sick young man used weapons stolen from his mother. Had she survived it is possible she would have been prosecuted for not securing her weapons from her mentally unstable son. Her lack of responsible gun ownership to secure them helped him to do what he did and she paid the ultimate price for it.

I don't give a flying f*k about the price that nimwit paid. I'm glad she died, only wish it had been last instead of first so that she could have known the results of the recreational time she spent with her son. If only she had had a USEFUL hobby she could have shared with him....

So do you categorize all parents who spend time with their kids at this USELESS hobby as nimwits?

Apparently you don't, so please enjoy this heartwarming video of a lovely young couple teaching their two year old daughter how to bump fire on "take your daughter to the shooting range" day.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KYqyq70b6BE

No I don't see myself as a nimwit at all. My kids grew up shooting and have turned out just fine. Both of them proudly serving at this moment in the US Navy with a very tough job and a top secret security clearance. We are very proud of them.

I won't bother watching your video that you use to justify pigeonholing all gun owners.

My comments here are just to show that all don't agree and there are other views. Thanks for listening. I agree stupid people like the ones in your video probably are should not have guns or at least attempt to be responsible. But in order to take them from the stupid people you would have to trample on the rights of the majority of responsible gun owners. That I do not agree with.

 

[smitcompton]

Hi,

I just looked up Supreme court 2nd amendment cases. Just for informational purposes, the last case 2008 had to do with District of Columbia enacting laws banning a type of gun, and making people have a trigger lock on their firearm. Supreme Court said no to either law based on 2nd amendment rights. 5 to 4 decision.

However the interesting thing to me was there has been no other case since 1939- which involved the 2nd amendment and the case was about a sawed off shot gun transported over state lines.

I think probable cause can be found when criminals run rampant. Some call it martial law.

Annette

 

[kenny]

I haven't read the thread.

There are 3 reasons I don't have a gun.

1 I'm not afraid.
2 The chance of ever needing one is tiny.
3 There is a chance of it being used for a bad purpose.

I don't buy insurance either.
Fear Fear Fear

I support amending the US Constitution to take all guns away from civilians.
Other countries have done it and they have lower gun violence.
Guns just do more harm than good.

Sure there will be an occasional success story about a gun owner, but there are more tragedies than heart-warming stories.
Society overall looses by letting civilians have guns.
More people are killed than saved.

So the topic really boils down to selfishness ... what's best for ME vs. what's best for society.
I take the moral high ground; I support what's best for society.

 

[mayerling]

I haven't read the thread.

There are 3 reasons I don't have a gun.

1 I'm not afraid.
2 The chance of ever needing one is tiny.
3 There is a chance of it being used for a bad purpose.

I don't buy insurance either.
Fear Fear Fear

I support amending the US Constitution to take all guns away from civilians.
Other countries have done it and they have lower gun violence.
Guns just do more harm than good.

Sure there will be an occasional success story about a gun owner, but there are more tragedies than heart-warming stories.
Society overall looses by letting civilians have guns.
More people are killed than saved.

So the topic really boils down to selfishness ... what's best for ME vs. what's best for society.
I take the moral high ground; I support what's best for society.

Isn't car insurance mandatory?

 

[kenny]

Isn't car insurance mandatory?

In my state you can post a bond in lieu of liability insurance.
My car is paid off so there is no loan company requiring me to insure the car against theft, so I don't.
If my car is stolen I'll buy another, funded in part with the gobs of money I've saved by not spending a lifetime letting vampiers drain my money away with insurance premiums.
Odds are that won't happen and all that money is mine to keep.

The house is not paid off so I buy the minimum insurance required by my mortgage holder.
When the house is paid off in a few years I'll stop buying that.
I don't expect, nor am I willing to piss away good money, to cling to some idea of a "perfect" life.
Franklin D. Roosevelt said, "The only thing we have to fear is fear itself.:

I'm much more crass; my philosophy is, Shit happens, but it probably won't.

 

[mayerling]

I see. So third-party insurance is not mandatory? If you were to damage someone else's car you just pay out of pocket and that's that?

 

[kenny]

I see. So third-party insurance is not mandatory? If you were to damage someone else's car you just pay out of pocket and that's that?

The bond covers liability.
If a successful claim exceeds the amount of the bond the balance is my responsibility.
Same as if a successful claim exceeds the dollar-amount of liability insurance you buy.

If you buy $300,000 of liability insurance but a successful claim is $700,000 you are on the hook for $400,000.
OH NOES!
You better get on the phone now and buy more insurance.

See. That What If? Fear Fear Fear! NOTHING BAD MUST EVER HAPPEN TO ME mentality has no end.

 

[mayerling]

I see. So third-party insurance is not mandatory? If you were to damage someone else's car you just pay out of pocket and that's that?

The bond covers liability.
If a successful claim exceeds the amount of the bond the balance is my responsibility.
Same as if a successful claim exceeds the dollar-amount of liability insurance you buy.

If you buy $300,000 of liability insurance but the successful claim is $700,000 you are on the hook for $400,000.
OH NOES!
You better get on the phone now and buy more insurance.

See. That Fear Fear Fear NOTHING BAD MUST EVER HAPPEN TO ME mentality has no end.

What if!

To be honest, I didn't even realise there was a cap on the amount you're covered for. Third-party insurance is mandatory in the UK and it never even occurred to me to discuss just how much would be covered. Anyway, enough with my thread-jacking.