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Couple uses guns to protect daughter

Discussion in 'Hangout' started by movie zombie, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. movie zombie
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    by movie zombie » Jun 11, 2014
    many here don't think we need self-defense weapons in this day and age; however, this couple is glad they had them:

    "The men, one of whom had an extensive rap sheet, confronted the couples’ 17 year-old daughter after she stepped outside of the house to go to her car, reports the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

    Cortez McClinton, 33, and Terrell Johnson, 31, held a gun to the girl’s head and used her as a shield as they entered the family home, where a five-year old child was also present."

    http://news.yahoo.com/two-men-girl-human-shield-until-her-father-040007545.html
     
    


    


  2. TooPatient
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    by TooPatient » Jun 11, 2014
    Good for them! :appl:

    I'm sure they and their daughter have many emotions and fears to deal with, but thanks to being prepared and practiced they are all alive to face them together.

    Thanks for posting. I had not seen this.
     
  3. Dancing Fire
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    by Dancing Fire » Jun 11, 2014
    Score one for the good guys!... :appl: :appl: Too bad he didn't kill McClinton too... :(sad
     
  4. LLJsmom
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    by LLJsmom » Jun 11, 2014
    Mom and Dad ROCK!! I agree with DF. Too bad the other one survived. Darn.
     
    


    


  5. LaraOnline
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    by LaraOnline » Jun 11, 2014
    Bizarre! The problem with lax gun laws is that sure every 20 year old girl can get a cute pink one to put in her handbag... But every desperado can get their hands on them too - and be much more vigorous about using them because they can only guess who else has a gun...
    Lax gun laws put good people in the position of considering themselves as potential murderers. Puts crazy virgin boys and teenagers in the position of considering themselves as potential murderers...or murderees.

    There is a problem, there has been for years and the world knows it. Just how to clean up such a mess is anyone's business but lax gun laws certainly put 'stranger danger' in a whole new light. Lord how many families are quietly murdered by gun, they probably would t even make the news, it's just another domestic tragedy.

    I know my opinion is not wanted on this topic here. But the pro gun sentiment on this board shocks me, culturally, again and again and again. Be interesting to see if you can sort this situation out for yourselves. It starts with a 'shoot im dead' culture that ultimately seems to have no problem with a black hat going down in a public hail of bullets. Problem is white hats die too. Does the country care enough to change the culture? Seems to run darn deep.
     
  6. LaraOnline
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    by LaraOnline » Jun 11, 2014
    Oops not to inflame this ::) but just mosied over to a local newspaper and complete coincidence found this story that I thought some people might find interesting. If you don't want the video to play, just stop it. You might find the comments interesting I guess, maybe, for a different take on the issue of gun laws:
    http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/news/...hould-be-ashamed/story-fni6ulvf-1226950336777

    or if that's too darn irritating try the dolphin story lol it's better.
    http://www.couriermail.com.au/techn...ier-Mail|homepage|homepage&itmt=1402480909762
     
  7. momhappy
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    by momhappy » Jun 11, 2014
    ^Since Obama took office, firearms sales have hit record highs :lol:
    And thanks for sharing this movie zombie - guns can help save lives too:)
     
  8. movie zombie
    Super_Ideal_Rock

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    by movie zombie » Jun 11, 2014
    w/o guns to defend themselves and their daughter I wonder how this would have played out.....
    what would those w/o a gun do in this situation?
    would a baseball bat have been effective?
    pepper spray?
    calling LE has a delay time at which time the perpetrators would be inside the house with more captives.
    or is it just ok to have one's daughter used as a shield by bad men to get inside your house to do more bad things?

    don't like guns, don't have one....
    but things like this don't just happen "to other people"....they happen to us!
    i don't advocate living in fear.
    i advocate preparedness....just like one is prepared for earthquakes and tornados.
     
  9. partgypsy
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    by partgypsy » Jun 11, 2014
    The lax gun control in the US to me is reminiscent of the cold war and nuclear armanment. That each superpower feels they have to increasingly increase their firepower in order to feel they have to defend themselves. It was incredibly expensive for the citizens, and it brought the spector of nuclear weapons being dropped on civilian areas.
    Luckily, the Soviet Union collapsed before nuclear weapons were used, but this same scenario is being played out elsewhere (pakistan, other tertiary powers). What I am saying, the illusion of being "safe" makes everyone collectively unsafer.

    I don't buy the argument, that because there are bad guys out there, the only recourse is for civilians to arm themselves. To me, that is a sign of civilization collapsing. And I really don't understand how the NRA can justify civilians to have guns with large capacity magazines, or the type of bullets that are extra deadly.

    Maybe we can uphold the "gun" amendment, but the caveat it only includes the kinds of guns available when that amendment was created. I'm sure all those originalist constitutionalists would agree, yes?
     
  10. packrat
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    by packrat » Jun 11, 2014
    Mz. It doesn't matter if a law abiding citizen with a gun saved a school bus full of kids from crashing into a school of 10,000 kids crawling w/terrorists, plus killed all the terrorists and managed to close the hole in the ozone layer and found a way to make chocolate the most effective weight loss product while simultaneously curing cancer and juggling 14 cats with one hand. Well, it matters to ME, b/c I like chocolate and think juggling is cool. HOWEVER. It's better to take the gun out of that one law abiding person's hands, than to take them from 5,000 who would do harm w/them.
     
    


    


  11. monarch64
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    by monarch64 » Jun 11, 2014
    From what I'm reading, sounds like one of those kill or be killed neighborhoods. I mean, if you live in a war zone, by all means arm yourself, I guess.
     
  12. packrat
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    by packrat » Jun 11, 2014
    Not every person who owns a gun owns the gun b/c they are positive everyone is out to get them and it's only a matter of time before someone breaks in to kill them.

    Some collect. Some like to target shoot. Some hunt. Owning a gun LEGALLY doesn't automatically make you a crazy freak cowering in the corner blasting at shadows. Some just enjoy them. There is nothing inherently wrong w/owning a gun legally.
     
  13. partgypsy
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    by partgypsy » Jun 11, 2014
    Yes. Some people have no choice to live in a terrible terrible neighborhood.

    If/when the zombie apocolapse happens I will certainly arm myself to save me and my family. But I'm asking, have we gotten to that point? I would prefer that we as a country get our s*T together than do to what I see is giving up on endemic violence in our society.

    My Dad was in the military (very good shot). He still keeps up his practice on gun ranges. But he feels one of the benefits of us living in the US and a democracy, is that we don't HAVE to carry a gun to feel safe. If it comes down to that then our society has failed on that level.

    I also don't have any problem with people having guns (we have my husband's grandfather's rifle in the attic) or people living in the country, and people using it for hunting. I do feel uncomfortable people having the right to have concealed weapons in public areas, restaurants, churches, and schools.
     
  14. TooPatient
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    by TooPatient » Jun 11, 2014
    That is the sad truth. Facts don't matter to those who believe guns are evil. No amount of stories where lives were saved will ever matter to them.... until it is their kid who is dead because no one could stop the criminal.

    This sort of thing may be more common in some neighborhoods than others, but it can happen anywhere. We haven't had an earthquake in some years but all of our bookcases are secured with earthquake bracing. We've never had a fire in the house but we have an extinguisher and a plan just in case. It is not crazy to be prepared for situations that may or may not happen. It is responsible.
     
  15. nkarma
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    by nkarma » Jun 11, 2014
    You say you don't advocate living in fear, but that is exactly what you are doing. Americans own guns because they are afraid. Americans are killed by guns because they are readily available. Not many see the Catch 22.

    I started a thread about why gun violence is VASTLY more than any other developed country trying to see what people thought the differences are. I came to the conclusion that it is fear. We are a fearful people. That's why the only two things we excel in worldwide is our expansive military (to defend against other countries we fear) and our per capita prison rate (to secure the citizens we fear).
     
    


    


  16. nkarma
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    by nkarma » Jun 11, 2014
    Anecdotal stories where people defended themselves with guns or are murdered by guns aren't facts.

    The fact is you live in a country where you are much more likely to die by gun violence than residents of every other developed country. That is the only fact.
     
  17. TooPatient
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    by TooPatient » Jun 11, 2014
    I am not afraid.

    I choose to own guns because I enjoy target shooting and I believe in protecting myself if I have to. It is because I am prepared that I am not afraid. People also have locks on their doors, look at crash testing when buying cars, wear seatbelts, earthquake brace tall furniture, keep fire extinguishers, carry cell phones, and purchase insurance policies. Being prepared does not make you "afraid".
     
  18. justginger
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    by justginger » Jun 11, 2014
    I'm not going to get myself invested in this thread because it's wash, rinse, repeat when it comes to American gun violence statistics. I just wanred to state that I agree with you. The good guys (of today anyway, who knows how mentally stable they'll be in another 6 months) are hanging on to theirs for dear life because they 100% believe no methodology will result in less firearms in the bad guys' possession.

    Weekly public shootings has become quintessentially American and no one seems to be willing to try ANYTHING (be it tougher control, penalties, more rights for police to investigate complaints, mental health funding). Just more hand wringing and cursing the 'crazies.'
     
  19. monarch64
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    by monarch64 » Jun 11, 2014
    Yeah, I know. My dad had guns when we were kids and took us "hunting." I quit after my first time at 6 years old--couldn't stand sitting there waiting for unsuspecting rabbits to come out of their holes so he could kill them and I went so far as to make noise to scare them away. That was the end of my hunting career and basically the end of my dad messing with guns. I think he kept a shotgun somewhere in the house as a "just in case" you know, if ever the boogeyman went out of his way to come get us. This is rural country I'm talking about, so yeah, it would've been out of his way.

    My neighbors own guns. One's from El Paso and the other's boyfriend works at the county clink. They'll both tell you that you'd better arm yourself because if you don't you'll be killed in the even that someone just feels like it. I don't get the idea that they just like collecting firearms.

    My old boss was an avid collector of anything with bullets or a sharp edge. His offices were full of stuffed dead things on the walls and I refused the job offer because of it. Then his son called me and told me he made his father take them all down and would I please come work for them. All his guns were locked up in a giant safe in the middle of the building and I felt exquisitely uncomfortable for the next two years.

    Packie, you know I love ya. I am just on the opposite end of the spectrum. I respect everyone's right to own guns legally, I really do. I just don't like them. I guess I'm more of a hand-to-hand combat kinda gal. Guns don't seem very fair. I think we think we're smarter and that we've evolved, but have we really?
     
  20. amc80
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    by amc80 » Jun 11, 2014
    Yep! We go to the local gun show several times a year and it is so crazy crowded now, especially over the last two years or so.
     
  21. momhappy
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    by momhappy » Jun 11, 2014
    Oh, you mean like my middle/upper class neighborhood where a young woman (early 20's) was pulled from her home (she was home alone and up late studying and forgot to lock their front door), taken to a cash machine by gunpoint, driven back towards her neighborhood and then tossed out of the car and shot in the head - you mean "that" kind of neighborhood??? She was left to die in the street and her body was discovered the next day. It was one of those crimes that made your skin crawl - partly because we don't live in a "war zone", we live in an affluent neighborhood. Crime doesn't just happen in bad neighborhoods. It can happen anywhere at any time.
     
  22. monarch64
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    by monarch64 » Jun 11, 2014
    Uhhhh...my point was that I read the linked article and several other news reports on the story. Sorry about your affluent neighbor. I am well aware that crime happens in all neighborhoods regardless of the inhabitants' socioeconomic status. You can calm down now. :rolleyes:
     
  23. movie zombie
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    by movie zombie » Jun 11, 2014
    living in fear?
    or being realistic?

    I love going to the range. it is a "zen" thing for me.
    unless you've experienced it, you won't understand it.

    those that don't have guns: what would you have done in this situation?
    how prepared are you to defend your life and your family?
    or do you think you will never have to do so?
    do you have situational awareness when in public?
    if so, why would you not have the same thing when at home?

    most women are not prepared to go mano a mano with a bad guy...and a bad guy with a gun is going to have even more on his side. just exactly how does a woman equalize that threat? or does she merely submit and do as she is told?

    it is nice to think we've evolved as a species and some of us have....others haven't and see other people as prey, sizing them up and making their plans.

    but we're again all of us merely repeating ourselves and no one is going to change anyone's opinion.

    I understand the desire to minimize violence, especially gun violence, but thinking that making guns illegal will solve all the problems is like believing in Santa Claus. violent people will remain violent and perpetrate gun crimes.

    I have a smoke detector and carbon monoxide detector in my home; the house is strapped down to the foundation per earthquake requirements as are the bookcases to the walls and the hot water heater. this is preparedness. I've gotten lax about keeping things in the car as recommended by the State of California but certainly after Loma Prieta in 1989 I was full prepared to live out of my car if need be. preparedness is not fear but living with reality. I do not have a CCW so I do not carry when away from home. but at home I am prepared.

    I do not say that a gun is the appropriate self-defense for everyone. what I do hope is that everyone has some plan of action and way to defend themselves.

    eta: http://www.corneredcat.com/
    I believe Kathy Jackson was a rape victim herself which lead to her interest in self-defense.
     
  24. packrat
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    by packrat » Jun 11, 2014
    Smoochies, Monnie! We can be on opposing sides and still puffy heart.

    Ginger is right as far as nothing will be done, nobody will do anything. It's the same as anything else that happens--there is NOBODY who will stand up and say ENOUGH IS F-ING ENOUGH THIS WILL END. Because to do that means to step on some people's toes, and when there's money to be had, well, yanno...that money is more important. Case closed, end of story. MONEY will ALWAYS be more important than PEOPLE. If you believe different you're dumb. Sorry. That's on both sides of EVERY problem-drugs/starving whatever. Money is more important, careers are more important. You can't step on anyone's toes and you can't step on anyone's rights. And we gave-excuse me here, ahem--we gave ****TARDS rights. Yep. You heard me. ****TARDS. They have the same rights as ME. And there are people who will lay down their lives to defend the rights for complete and utter moronic idiots who KILL other people. You guys. Seriously. There are people who DEFEND the RIGHTS of someone who molests and rapes little kids. Sorry, but I guess I'm the biggest bitch on the planet b/c I think they oughta be drug out in the street and shot. So guess what, *I* have no problem stepping on other people's rights or feelings b/c *I* don't feel like money is more important or that a piece of utter trash's rights are more important or even EQUAL. The vast majority of legal gun owners don't feel that way either. They WANT to protect people. But that shit is kinda taken out of their hands b/c even if you impose the strictest laws ever-it will always only effect the ones who follow the rules, unless you start w/STRICT PUNISHMENTS. Buuuuut see now, we can't DO that b/c then there will be some that feel it's cruel and unusual and gosh we should be so much better than that. yeah, we should but we're not. If we were, we wouldn't have these problems.

    AGAIN-----Round and round the roundabout and back where you began.
     
  25. ame
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    by ame » Jun 11, 2014
    Since I LIVE HERE, I feel I can give a little more perspective on this...And I do mean I LIVE here, that specific incident occurred about 5 miles from where I live in one direction and 5 miles from where I work in the other (I am lucky to live near work!)

    Actually that neighborhood never was particularly nasty before very recently actually, and I hesitate to say even that, because, in fact that actual "area" is generally pretty decent in terms of safety. I have never felt unsafe there at any hour of the day, or night, and we go over there relatively frequently.

    As a general explanation, a lot of the INSANE violence that was previously kind of "contained" around the northern city area has started to spread south where it was never before. Sure there were break ins there, but NOTHING like this kind of crap. Nothing like where a guy stands on a window ledge and sticks his gun in a window and starts shooting, hitting and killing a 12 year old at random because he thought someone he was at odds with MIGHT be in that house that night. A lot of the scary stuff keeps spreading out from the city itself into the county or near the county lines (south and midcounty anyway) and it's always ridiculously ahead of the policing.
    From OUR local paper/site:
    http://www.stltoday.com/news/local/crime-and-courts/husband-and-wife-shoot-gunmen-who-try-to-enter-their/article_29109617-bc56-534f-82e6-d36ccba40c38.html

    There is no longer a situation with just "bad neighborhoods." The people who want to commit these crimes will leave their "bad neighborhood" for a less bad neighborhood, do their crime and then go back to where they came from, which is EXACTLY what would have happened in this case. Except in this case, the homeowner shot and killed one and critically wounded the other, who now I believe is going to be charged his accomplices murder.

    In general, there are little pockets here and there around the south and middle city areas that aren't as great, but MOST of the really unsafe activity is north of Washington Ave in Downtown. Though lately it's been spilling south of that. Just the other day there was an armed robbery spree all around downtown, including in front of my building at work. The County is not usually that "bad" though random stuff happens where someone comes from the city and sometimes its just random acts and other times it's targeted to where "the money is."
     
  26. momhappy
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    by momhappy » Jun 11, 2014
    No need to calm down - I already am :D I don't take anything here personal. I was just sharing a story and I'm sorry if that offended you in some way.
     
  27. momhappy
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    by momhappy » Jun 11, 2014
    Thanks for posting this, Ame - so sad that your neighborhood is dealing with this stuff. Say safe :))
     
  28. Laila619
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    by Laila619 » Jun 11, 2014
    If you have small kids (or even teens) in the house, you can't exactly keep guns loaded and ready, just sitting around. So by the time you ran to the gun safe, got the ammo and loaded the gun, it would most likely be too late anyway.

    Much better to have solid steel doors with dead bolts, a dog, and/or a good alarm system.
     
  29. Laila619
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    by Laila619 » Jun 11, 2014
    That's horrible, but even if she had a gun, it doesn't mean she would have been able to 1) get to it and 2) use it successfully before she was abducted. If she had an alarm system in her home, that would have probably been more foolproof. I don't think guns are the only way to defend oneself. What about a taser or pepper spray? What about keeping your doors locked and bolted? What about learning martial arts? What about owning a doberman pinscher?
     
  30. TooPatient
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    by TooPatient » Jun 11, 2014

    Actually, a lot of break-ins or home invasions occur with 5+ minutes of warning. People frequently ignore the sounds and don't call police because they figure it is just the wind or something. At least if you are aware and have them in a safe, you can get to them and be ready to respond if needed.

    Of course I personally think you should also have a security system. We have good lighting, live in a good neighborhood, have a security system (and signs), and good locks. (Plus dogs who bark)
    I see using a gun in self defense as a last resort. We try to avoid issues (signs warning of security system and barking dogs) and take other measures to slow any potential intruder down (locks, fence, etc) in hopes of giving police time to respond but if all else fails and someone does get in (not just in the house, but also into another locked area within the house) i WILL defend myself and my family.

    Anyway, there may not be any warning. It is just often the case that there is warning. Having one more way to keep your family safe is a good thing.
     

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