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Consolation money to the "losing" jeweler?

Discussion in 'RockyTalky' started by Venzen007, Jul 5, 2019.

  1. Disoon
    Rough_Rock

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    by Disoon » Jul 5, 2019
    My apologies. For some reason I didn’t realize that it was an asscher cut stone. Hence I understand why it’s more difficult to narrow down the parameters.

    . I agree a shopper is there for their own benefit. So give the business owner some respect by not bringing in an outside item when they don’t seem very thrilled when you inquired about it.

    Perhaps you’re ready to buy not but the right stone is not quite on the market yet.
     
  2. AV_
    Ideal_Rock

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    by AV_ » Jul 5, 2019
    .

    The not yet ingrained custom to charge for estimates could use the help. It may be worth calling the payment this way - now that the story has legs.

    1K sounds like 10h of work - I do not know if this is what it takes to call out diamonds on the other side of things; some things may well. Zero is not right.
     
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  3. Venzen007
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Venzen007 » Jul 5, 2019
    But what form does that respect take? Not going back at all so his stone has zero chance of being purchased or handicapping myself by looking at his stone without a reference stone I know I like? Neither seems reasonable.
     
  4. PreRaphaelite
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by PreRaphaelite » Jul 5, 2019
    The purpose of a business is to meet the needs of the customer (thanks, Peter Drucker...) and the OP does not ‘owe’ the business a sale. The consumer has a pretty specific need in this case and the business didn’t quite meet it. Someone else probably will meet his needs. I hope he finds exactly what he’s looking for, and equally importantly, I hope the entire experience of purchase provides happiness, customer service especially.

    Ain’t capitalism grand?
     
    


    


  5. Daisys and Diamonds
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by Daisys and Diamonds » Jul 5, 2019
    i left a really positive and truthful review for the wounderful lady at my mall jewlers who helped me with some significant purcheses.
    the regional manager came down and shouted them morning tea because of it
     
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  6. mrs-b
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mrs-b » Jul 6, 2019
    This seems to have become way over personalized. You tried to buy a diamond. The vendor couldn't get what you wanted. You went elsewhere.

    That's what you call an open market. Once you start getting personal sending unasked for conciliatory money and flowers, you've made the interaction something other than business. So long as you've always been respectful of him and his time, so long as you were sincere in originally wanting to buy a stone from him, and so long as you don't continue to use his time, knowing you no longer intend to buy from him, you've upheld your end as a shopper.

    If you feel he's done a good job, write a Yelp review. Those things are powerful and worth way more than a cup of coffee. And they're FOREVER. But don't go back in to compare diamonds; that's poor form.

    He's told you he found 'best possible' stone for you. In buying a different stone, you're basically saying he's wrong. Going in with new said stone is just rubbing his nose in it. Move on. And let him move on, too.
     
  7. cmd2014
    Ideal_Rock

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    by cmd2014 » Jul 6, 2019
    I agree. Having them pull 6 stones and holding one for over 2 weeks while working behind the scenes with 2 other jewelers (being upfront with them but not your original person) is where this became less than respectful of the jewelers time in my opinion. And asking to go back and compare stones when it’s already been said that the intention is to buy the other stone is taking that even further. If I was the vendor I’d be unfailingly polite at this point because I’d really have no choice, but I’d make a mental note not to go out of my way to be helpful again in the future.
     
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  8. lydial
    Shiny_Rock

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    by lydial » Jul 6, 2019
    What I don’t understand is why we novices can find better diamonds than a true jeweler can. That is what happened for my cluster. My center stone is not an ideal MRB, but has FIC angle parameters, is 1.15 ct but K color, VS1 and was under 4K. My local jeweler was quoting me 6K for JSI2 stones that were not well cut, so I told them I would look on my own. When I brought it in to show them for the setting idea, they gave no indication of their opinion of it, like it did not exist. It was really really awkward. Then we had 2 meetings about the setting before I bailed. It was not a great moment for me.
     
  9. the_mother_thing
    Ideal_Rock

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    by the_mother_thing » Jul 6, 2019
    My guess is the smaller/local shops have a limited/small # of diamond sources because - to be frank - the majority of people shopping there for diamonds aren’t looking for the level of details & particulars we are, so in most cases I imagine what they can get in is generally ‘good enough’ for the average consumer ... until they stumble upon PS.
     
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  10. Venzen007
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Venzen007 » Jul 6, 2019
    @mrs-b @cmd2014 Where is this assumption coming from that I've already made up my mind regarding the diamond I'm buying? If I had made up my mind, I would never go back in and take up more of his time or "rub his nose" in it. I don't know where that impression is coming from.

    I was out of state on vacation with my family the last week of June, getting back into town July 1st, so I haven't seen the stone he decided to hold on to since before leaving on vacation, nor did I know he was going to keep that particular stone. My vacation was no surprise for him.

    I first looked at the 1.85 Thursday. I haven't a clue which one looks the best because I can't recall what the 1.52 looks like. Despite asking for images of the 1.52, the jeweler never made any, ASET or otherwise, so I have nothing to go by but my memory.

    I hope this clarifies the situation a bit. As far as "personalizing" the situation, @mrs-b, I happen to like the man and his wife. They are new to town, having recently purchased the store. There just came a point when I got the impression that I knew more about the cut I was after than they did, so I starting looking for additional help but allowed them to continue to have a chance at making the sale by continuing their call for asschers, partly because I like the fellow. That may backfire if I don't buy from him now, but I hope he understands if that turns out to be the case, and it's partly why I'm considering offering something to show my appreciation for their effort should I not buy the stone they've decided is the best they can get.
     
    


    


  11. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Karl_K » Jul 6, 2019
    He is leery because there are going to be a lot of diamonds out and its not unknown for someone to bring in a cz mix them up and leave with a diamond.
    Ask him if wants to look at the inscription of the outside stone before and after the session to put his mind at ease.
     
  12. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Karl_K » Jul 6, 2019
    As far as his costs you can figure it out as overnight fedex from NY for a small box to his location x2(each way).
    6 stones would probably be at least 3 shipments because its not uncommon to limit it to 2 stones at a time from a supplier.
    Some may have come from a closer location but its pretty much a given that at least some of them came from NY.
     
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  13. Venzen007
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Venzen007 » Jul 6, 2019
    Standard overnight looks to be $80ish each way, @Karl_K . So we're talking around $500ish for shipping, assuming he was responsible for the original shipping, not just the return shipping, and that we have 3 boxes going both ways.
     
  14. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Karl_K » Jul 6, 2019
    He has to pay shipping both ways. The suppliers will no longer cover it.
     
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  15. arkieb1
    Ideal_Rock

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    by arkieb1 » Jul 6, 2019
    Let us know which on you picked, I'm interested to see.
     
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  16. scarsmum
    Brilliant_Rock

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  17. aac2013
    Shiny_Rock

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  18. gregchang35
    Ideal_Rock

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    by gregchang35 » Jul 6, 2019
    royal asscher.... :love::love::love::love:
     
  19. mrs-b
    Ideal_Rock

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    by mrs-b » Jul 6, 2019
    It's the vibe we're getting from reading this thread. It seems highly unlikely you'll buy a diamond from someone who, as you said, knows less about the cut you're after than you do.

    Unless you're Croesus, a thousand bucks is a lot of money. It introduces a strange element to the transaction; your average person doesn't give someone new in town that kind of money just because they like them (yes - I'm abbreviating, I realize) and I suspect it will make the vendor uncomfortable and he'll be wondering about what expectations and strings come along with it. While those expectations and strings may be precisely nothing on your end, on his end it may put him under pressure.

    Anyway, you asked for opinions - you got 'em and this one is mine. Keep things professional. Don't throw your money around. The fact that this gentleman hasn't returned your latest email says he's severing the connection; I think the tactful thing to do would be to let him.
     
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  20. Swirl68
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Swirl68 » Jul 6, 2019
    There are several trade members on this board. I’m surprised one of them hasn’t yet just told us straight-up how they would feel about it if they were the jeweler in this situation?

    Is that against the forum rules or something?
     
  21. Venzen007
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Venzen007 » Jul 6, 2019
    @mrs-b , he's pulling in stones by their GIA characteristics. So, just like he could bring in stinkers, cut-wise, he could also bring in exceptional cuts. We are talking about asscher cuts. I was obviously counting on him getting fortunate with what came his way.

    In my business, my time is what I sell, which is why I probably lean toward compensating him for his. However, his business model is set up for selling things, not time, and I get that, so I'm still up in the air on it a bit, but if I don't buy his, I likely will offer something. He can decline if he wants. $1000 isn't a lot of money, time-wise, depending on the business. It's not "throwing money around" if it is in the form of appropriate compensation.

    Also, you've assumed he never got back with me, which is incorrect. I spent over an hour with him today. I'm going to post about that later, when I get a second to post a photo and a video.

    I did ask for opinions; you're right. I appreciate yours, but they'd be more appropriate to the situation if they didn't contain so many assumptions. ;-)
     
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  22. lilmosun
    Brilliant_Rock

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    by lilmosun » Jul 6, 2019
    Rather than an outright gift, I would look to see if I could make a smaller purchase as some suggested...something you could use or gift. I love nothing more than finding shops that provide above an beyond service and things I like...even more so for small independent businesses...and have the philosophy of if you want these businesses to stick around, you need to give them your business.
     
  23. the_mother_thing
    Ideal_Rock

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    by the_mother_thing » Jul 6, 2019
    I think I read this was a diamond to go in a pendant, correct? If so, perhaps - IF you don’t buy his diamond - you could go with him/his bench for the pendant setting and necklace so that you are giving him an opportunity to make some money on the transaction that way? Just another option for compensating him without compromising any relationship pressures/expectations with an outright ‘payment for your time’. He may pad his cost a smidge more than normal for the work given the time he put in on the search and calling in diamonds; let him ... win-win.
     
  24. Venzen007
    Shiny_Rock

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  25. MollyMalone
    Ideal_Rock

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    by MollyMalone » Jul 6, 2019
    Thank you both for this exchange! It added information that probably not many readers of this thread were aware of.
     
  26. Venzen007
    Shiny_Rock

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    by Venzen007 » Jul 6, 2019
    Update:

    I met with the local jeweler today and looked at the 1.52 again (without immediately pulling out the 1.85 I'd brought with me). He spoke highly of his stone, saying, as far as asschers go, it was expertly cut. It is pretty in its way, certainly, but it is very different than the 1.85. Is has a 10% crown to the 1.85's 19% crown, so it is quite a drastic difference.

    I looked at it with him for about 15 minutes, with him discussing the virtues of its specific cut. Though my initial thoughts were that, at least looking at it close, that much of the facets under the table were "off" at the same time, making for quite a dark center when my head was blocking the light. The eventual stone is destined for a pendant, so I've come to the understanding that this particular darkness (what would be blue in the ASET) may not necessarily be the case for pendant viewing. If I were buying for a ring, I would likely steer clear of this one, though the darkness IS interesting, in its own way.

    I told him that I brought the other stone, but, if it would bother him, I wouldn't compare them. He said that he wouldn't be bothered at all, so I took it out and put them side-by-side, then out of the jeweler lights, then we put them both in tweezers and set them up on a shelf for a bit of distance viewing. At a distance, the 1.52 wasn't AS dark in the middle, and my initial thoughts were that it might have a slight edge for fire while the 1.85 had the edge for brilliance (due to the higher crown, I imagine). When together, the 1.52, whether at a distance or close up, did seem significantly darker, but cleaner or more pure-looking, maybe? I'm sure he'd steamed it before I arrived, and I've been pawing at the 1.85 since Thursday, so maybe that explains that observation.

    Below is the ASET I took of the 1.52 while in the store using my ipad as a backlight and my phone as a camera.

    IMG_20190706_150439251.jpg
    Here is the ASET again of the 1.85
    IMG_20190704_113511726.jpg
    The higher crown of the 1.85 gives quite a bit more sparkle from the table facets, no doubt, in person, too. However, the jeweler's opinion of the 1.85 was that it was poorly cut, that he noticed the high crown immediately, and that fact reduced its value quite a bit and it was way over priced at 17,800. He said the 19% crown is way outside of what he called ideal for an asscher of 9-12% crown. He said that fact alone, really made it a poor choice. He did allow that the 1.85 had more "sparkle", because the cuts were so different, but sparkle wasn't really what asschers are about. As far as comparing the two stones, he said it wasn't really an apples-to-apples comparison (I agree, there) and if I liked the look of higher crowns, he could look specifically for higher-crowned asschers, implying that could find a better version of the 1.85.

    This is an iPad video I took standing outside the store with him holding the stone in a paper tray. It's not the best, because I didn't have control of the tray, and it was raining and people were everywhere, but it might give anyone interested some idea. You'll see, when the stone finally turns to face the viewer, the darkness to which I was referring, about 1:00 in.



    We did discuss doing a custom setting, whether I bought a stone from him or not, so that's positive, and he said the source for the 1.52 has already sold it if I don't buy it, that he's not going to send it back to the source, but to the new owner, if I choose not to buy it, again, for $20,022 (that's with tax). I told him I would let him know tomorrow whether he could send it on Monday or give it to me.

    So, thoughts/opinions on the 1.52? Thoughts/opinions on his evaluation of the 1.85? It's always hard for me to separate out the sales bias, and because of that, I tend to view most of what is said as sales bias, which may not always been the case.

    Frankly, unless I'm persuaded otherwise, I'll very likely choose one of these. The search could go on forever, and my anniversary was June 12th. My wife is being a gem being cool with me taking as long as I want (she doesn't know what I'm doing). When the jeweler said he'd be happy to start searching for high-crowned asschers, my immediate internal, gut-reaction to that was poor.

    Interested in everyone's thoughts, but I'm just linking the pro's I know of, but if you know of more, feel free to link them. @Karl_K @diagem @Rhino
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2019
  27. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Karl_K » Jul 6, 2019
    Your welcome!
     
  28. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Karl_K » Jul 6, 2019
    That is pure BS!
     
  29. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Karl_K » Jul 6, 2019
    That is total BS a well cut asshcer has pleasing patterns static and dances with movement.
     
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  30. Karl_K
    Ideal_Rock
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    by Karl_K » Jul 6, 2019
    Now that the steam is outa my ears.
    Go with your eyes, if it looks dark to you then it is dark.
     

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