Consolation money to the "losing" jeweler?

[Venzen007]

I'm considering giving some "consolation" money, so to speak, to my local jeweler who has helped me search for an asscher stone, assuming I do not pick the one he has tomorrow. I've received another stone from an out-of-state jeweler who has also been helping me, and I plan to compare them side-by-side tomorrow (a fact of which my local jeweler is, as of yet, unaware).

I've spent probably 3 hours, collectively over several separate occasions, looking at potential stones with my local jeweler at his store, stones he has brought in from sources he's been searching. That doesn't include any time he's personally spent searching for and looking over stones without me, though I don't know how much time that is; maybe that time is negligible. Also, the sales person in this store, a young lady, who has also been a part of this experience, has helped show me the stones along with the owner of the store, himself.

My local jeweler has indicated to me that the stone he has now is the best available to get in my price range; in other words, he's basically done looking, so I'm going to consider the stone he has the best he can do.

If I should I pick the stone from the out-of-state jeweler, what are some opinions and reasons for why I should or shouldn't offer what I'm calling "consolation" money? And if folks think it is a good idea, what amount would be appropriate, considering the purchase would have been roughly 15-20k. I'm considering offering 1,000, but I don't want to throw money around needlessly.

Now, the price he's quoted me on the stone he has seems high to me. I understand he's got to make some money over and above what money will be going to his source, but even so, it seems too much. He's told he got them down to the lowest they would go, and quoted me $18,800 ($20,022 with tax) for a 1.52 F VVS1, GIA. Any opinions here? What is he planning to make on this sale, do you think? 3,000? More, less?

The stone from the out-of-state jeweler is a 1.85 E VS1 (it's a good VS1 as it's difficult for me to find the GIA cert-listed inclusions in a loupe), for a total price of $17,800. From my dealings with this jeweler, all via email, my impression is that this is a fair deal for everyone, and I tend to believe that.

I'm interested in people's thoughts here, especially, but not limited to, jewelers who have been in similar sorts of situations.

 

[Karl_K]

Is it this one:
https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds...1&pageview=24&adv=false&days=100&cert_number=

 

[AV_]

Will they not set your stone?

 

[Karl_K]

Here are somw price comps on the 1.81
https://www.pricescope.com/diamonds...1&pageview=24&adv=false&days=100&cert_number=

 

[D&T]

I probably wouldn't just give him cash, just buy something in the $1000 range, plenty of bands, necklace, earrings for the mrs and helping him stay in business. I go into my local jeweler who happens to be living in my same neighborhood and every now and then I pick up something. I do like their stuff, sure I can get something similar online for less, but sometimes seeing something and having the actual item on hand that fits perfectly and fills an immediate gratification is a great feeling but I don't do this regularly.

 

[Venzen007]

Will they not set your stone?

I think they certainly would, but I'm going to have something designed for it, and though they've offered to custom design a setting, I'm not sure I want them to do it. Maybe I'll ask them to show me some things their designer has done.

 

[Venzen007]

Is it this one:

No, but I've certainly been seeing those kinds of prices.

 

[AV_]

How did you choose to get into this shop, if neither their work, nor diamonds in stock were convincing at first sight?

I hope you find reason to work with them.

 

[Venzen007]

How did you choose to get into this shop, if neither their work, nor diamonds in stock were comvincing?

My parents shopped there over the years, and then me, too, when I was old enough to have a reason. However, this multi-generation, family-owned store recently sold to a new owner, whom I've met, both him and his wife. This is their second store now, with one other in the state. They both seem nice, so I thought I'd give them a chance.

 

[Daisys and Diamonds]

as its owner operated i think this is an ethical thing to do
good for you
karma and all that
but id also see if there was something you needed that they had in stock

 

[Matthews1127]

My local jeweler was unsuccessful locating a suite of 7 Asschers for me for a bespoke project Anniversary Band, after a 3 month search.
I reached out to a trusted online vendor just to get someone else involved with different resources. Actually, he, himself, is a diamond cutter, and is known for his expertise in step cut diamonds.
Within a few days, he was able to pull 7 Vintage Cut Asschers for me. Transaction from first contact to arrival of my package was 3 weeks.
I contacted my local jeweler & shared my news. I still intend to use them for the bespoke setting; I already sat with the jeweler, and sketches & plans are complete & in place. I received my quote, and I hope to pull the trigger to start production, soon.
DH & I patronize their business often enough to have compensated for the loss on the Asschers. There are other diamonds incorporated into the design of my Anniversary Band project, and they know I’ll be back to purchase more from them, in the future.
I think finding something of equivalent value of what you believe is reasonable in their shop for purchase will more than compensate for the staff’s time & effort that they’ve put in to assisting you. Especially, if you are not going to have them set the stone.
*If you do use them to set your stone, just make sure they are willing to insure the stone, while it is in their possession, during the setting process.

 

[cmd2014]

I think the thing to keep in mind when comparing prices is that retail stores heave a lot of overhead. They are paying rent, electricity, staff, taxes, and up front for inventory. It is fair for them to account for that when pricing items, or they’d go out of business. These costs vary a lot depending on location, with real estate and wages and taxes being very different state to state. Profit can actually be relatively low depending on these cost margins.

If you have spent hours at that store, you have asked them to do a lot of labor for you (the time spent with you plus the time spent ordering stones) plus whatever shipping and insurance costs they have incurred pulling in stones. So I think buying something in stock to compensate them for that is a nice idea.

 

[the_mother_thing]

I’m not sure I would give them money; rather, I think a nice gesture would be to maybe send them a very nice bouquet of flowers they could have in the store with a ‘thank you’ card for their efforts. Customers who comment on the bouquet can then learn from the staff they were a thank-you from a customer (that helps the business because the new/potential customer can infer they are dealing with good business). I would also go on a few websites (Google, Yelp, etc.) and leave positive reviews for their business with commentary to the extent they were very helpful and respectful in your search, even though you ended up buying elsewhere, and that you’d definitely consider them for other future purchases. I think those positive reviews would be far more valued by a local business than a ‘consolation cash prize’, and they’ll outlast the flowers when they die or the cash you might give them for their time.

 

[Venzen007]

I think the thing to keep in mind when comparing prices is that retail stores heave a lot of overhead.

The out-of-state vendor is a well-known brick and mortar store, too, and in a high tax area, but your point is well-taken in terms of comparing to strictly online sellers.

What you say about their labor and costs is exactly why I was thinking of doing something. To those who have suggested it, I like the idea of buying a smaller, in-house item from the store, and even the flowers idea is nice; though picturing their shop, I'm not sure they have counter space for such things.

 

[PreRaphaelite]

I once consulted a highly skilled artisan (antique furniture) and he spent several hours researching the wood and sourcing replacement, and writing a repair plan with explanations, and then submitted his estimate for the work. It was perhaps reasonable for someone of means, but it was beyond my level.

Rather than message saying “too expensive”, I sent a prepaid shipping container with label so that he could just plop the materials in the box with his other outgoing shipments and think no more of it. I added a letter thanking him for his time and enclosed a Starbucks gift card for $50.

A few days later he messaged me thanking me for recognizing the effort he & his team had gone to, and added that whilst they never charge for estimates, they do take them very seriously and they truly appreciated the gesture. He had used the gift card to buy a catering breakfast with coffee and muffins for his team and everyone enjoyed it.

The point of my ramble here is that sometimes sending a coffee catering muffin extravaganza to their shop with sincere thank you note would let them know you appreciate them. If you bought something small, that would be nice, but the goodwill of catering is impressive!

 

[gregchang35]

I once consulted a highly skilled artisan (antique furniture) and he spent several hours researching the wood and sourcing replacement, and writing a repair plan with explanations, and then submitted his estimate for the work. It was perhaps reasonable for someone of means, but it was beyond my level.

Rather than message saying “too expensive”, I sent a prepaid shipping container with label so that he could just plop the materials in the box with his other outgoing shipments and think no more of it. I added a letter thanking him for his time and enclosed a Starbucks gift card for $50.

A few days later he messaged me thanking me for recognizing the effort he & his team had gone to, and added that whilst they never charge for estimates, they do take them very seriously and they truly appreciated the gesture. He had used the gift card to buy a catering breakfast with coffee and muffins for his team and everyone enjoyed it.

The point of my ramble here is that sometimes sending a coffee catering muffin extravaganza to their shop with sincere thank you note would let them know you appreciate them. If you bought something small, that would be nice, but the goodwill of catering is impressive!

THIS..... especially if you already noted the vendor does not have any space for flowers.

 

[LLJsmom]

Yes a lovely catered breakfast for him and his staff would be a wonderful and appreciated gesture, I’m sure. Great way to start the day. Just recognizing the time and effort they invested. Business doesn’t always work out the way they want but you are a considerate and understanding client.

 

[Venzen007]

I like this idea. They don't open until 10am, and I don't know what their rules are for eating or drinking while they're working, but surely they have a place to put that sort of thing in the back, where they could sneak back when not busy to partake.

 

[marymm]

Outlier opinion here:

It seems the owner of the store is doing his job, finding diamonds that fit your parameters, and he has given himself a capped amount of time to find it for you since it seems this latest stone is the last one he plans on bringing in for you. Of course he has expenses in bringing in diamonds, but that is his actual business/service, not a special favor he is doing for you. And apparently the stones he is bringing in are not actually fitting the bill. For me personally, the service falls short of what I would expect from my local jeweler if I was a serious buyer of a $15-$20K diamond. In my mind, if he is unable to procure the right diamond for me, I would not expect to console him; if anything, he should be consoling me as well as advising of the new/different approaches he is taking in order to find me solid candidates. If he is no longer interested in assisting me in my diamond quest, well, that is telling me something about his business model and his market connections.

Obviously YMMV.

 

[cmd2014]

If the stones that Karl pulled are the right ones, it looks like your local jeweler is only charging $500 more than the other jeweler once the cost of the stone is factored out. That doesn't seem like a lot tbh when compared to the time put in and likely reflects some small differences in overhead costs.

So given that the price actually doesn't seem that high in light of what the stones are actually costing, I would go with whichever one you think looks the nicest, and which one gives you the best feeling. It may very well be that the smaller stone is cut better (which influences cost) or you may be paying a premium for the clarity - which you may or may not be able to see with the naked eye.

 

[Venzen007]

@marymm , I harbor your same opinion in my logical core. My rational thoughts about the situation are exactly as you've described them. I don't think he used the time that would necessary to come to the conclusion he reached that the stone he has is one of the best available in the world. His words.

I'm just trying to be considerate for what effort did go in, but as you say, that effort is his business, not a personal favor he's doing for me.

I asked him via text this morning if I could come by and take another look at the 1.52, bringing with me one I'd sourced from outside for comparison purposes.

His response, via text, wasn't unexpected but I was hoping for a better one. He said if I was planning on choosing that way, by a visual comparison, that may not be the best, that it takes trained eyes and equipment that cost thousands of dollars to determine the best stone, which he pointed out they have done with the stone they have.

He went on to say that they've held the 1.52 for almost two weeks while looking for others and that he has used up his favors with one of his best diamond venders, who told him they could have already sold the stone.

In the end, he did say all of this was his problem, not mine, but that he knows I want the best and that he's confident he has it.

So, I don't know what I'm going to do. I wrote back, and said I understand and appreciated his effort, but that I'd still like to come by and see the two together. He's not written back just yet.

 

[PreRaphaelite]

It sounds like he’s just ready to move on. He probably knows that an in-person comparison between the two stones would only serve to assist you buying the other stone, losing him the sale.

The idea that ‘your eyeballs are not the best way to pick a stone’ is.... disingenuous. After all, your eyeballs are the very things you’re trying to please with this purchase.

 

[cmd2014]

I would say that all of what he said is probably fair (and true), albeit not what a customer likely wants to hear. I'd say you have come to the limit of how much your vendor is willing to invest in you given that you are giving indications of not being serious about buying (or at least not from them). It's a balancing act that all people in the service industry have to do (deciding how much to invest in a possible sale based on what they think the likelihood of that sale might be). ETA: I suspect there's some frustration on their part that you weren't up front about the fact that you were working with other jewelers as well, as this would have also factored into their willingness to pull and hold stones for you. It's a little bit of bad form if you are going to ask for more than just looking at what's in their showcase, IMO.

Plus, he's right in that many people buy truly bad diamonds by eye because 1) everything looks good under spotlights, and 2) most people don't have an experienced enough eye to know when something is bad. It's why people here are concerned about the specs and won't give opinions based on videos alone. But with two stones of reasonably good specs, it does come down to which one you prefer by eye.

 

[Venzen007]

I suspect there's some frustration on their part that you weren't up front about the fact that you were working with other jewelers as well, as this would have also factored into their willingness to pull and hold stones for you. It's a little bit of bad form if you are going to ask for more than just looking at what's in their showcase, IMO.

I agree with what you've said here. But, to complete the picture of this situation, when I started working with this jeweler, he was the only one helping me. Before him, I had looked on my own, via Blue Nile, and reading through and posting to this community, buying an ASET and Idealscope, etc. After buying and returning three Blue Nile stones, I decided to give my local jeweler a chance to find a stone to my somewhat range-y specifications.

It wasn't until he'd gotten in and I'd personally looked at half a dozen or so stones that I decided to see if anyone else might be willing to help look. I looked elsewhere because, based on what he was telling me about the stones he was getting in, I got the impression that he wasn't looking with my level of scrutiny, rather just looking by the numbers.

The second place I asked to help me, which I learned about through this community, ended up providing the 1.85 that I'm currently considering. In my initial email to them, I stated immediately and directly that I was already working with a local jeweler, and if they didn't want to enter that mix, considering that they were already competing with someone and were, themselves, out-of-state to boot, I'd understand, but if they were up for it, I'd welcome their help. They appreciated the frankness, and then proceeded to pull stones, take photos, asets, and videos and responded to emails quickly and with plenty of detail.

Should I have told my local jeweler that I was losing confidence in his search and that I enlisted additional help finding a stone? An argument could be made that I should have, but frankly, I didn't because I didn't want their search to become half-hearted or cease all together. I told the second and even the third (yes, I sought the possibility of getting help from a third entity, whom I told about the other two), who agreed to help, if he could.

Thus, maybe my ethical blunder here was not "firing" the first jeweler or giving him a chance to quit when I lost confidence by informing him that the situation had changed somewhat, but I figured the more stones I got to see, the better off I'd be with my ultimate decision. I can see how that is a bit selfish - that I intentionally withheld information that may have changed his willingness to help me. That's likely why I'm left with this lingering notion of a offering consolation prize.

[Edit: He did write me back this afternoon and said I could come by and compare, that it was not a problem, but that tomorrow would be better because they were busy today. I get it, and who knows; maybe I'll like the one they have best.]

 

[the_mother_thing]

Not sure if you were paraphrasing his reply to you (about how he has all the fancy equipment, shouldn’t choose with your eyes, etc.) or not, but it kinda sounds short & snooty. Regardless, since you stated you bought an ASET & Idealscope, I’d take them with you to view both options with your own ‘fancy equipment’ and see what you see. I’m curious if he looks at you sideways or asks “what’s that” when you pull them out to view the diamonds.

 

[lydial]

I had my local jeweler quote a center stone for my cluster and also quote having their bench design my cluster... and I went with an online diamond (which I bought for about 30% lower than they could offer), and I chose a PS recommended vendor for setting my cluster ring (Steven Kirsch) priced 20% lower than my local jeweler's bench could do it. I know they were very interested in the project and slightly aggressively pursued the project. I have not wanted to go back in there again. But someday I will. It is a shame because they have great inventory and a great repair bench. Oh well. I will show my face again in due time. I did send a thank you note for all of their time.

 

[Venzen007]

@the_mother_thing , I was basically doing just enough to not feel obligated to use quotes, just changing pronouns, etc. As for the ASET, I brought it into the store when the first stones arrived. He'd never heard of it, but tolerated it well enough. I even got him to look through it several times!

 

[MollyMalone]

Reminders from Karl K (posted in one of your other threads):

ok ASETs
First:
Yours is the more accurate ASET the vendors ASET the diamond is into the scope far to much.
It also has the colors boosted in post processing,
Second:
Blue in ASET means nada in a pendant. The viewing distance represented in ASET is aprox 10 inches the viewing distance in a pendant is in feet.

When viewing candidates for a pendant stone look at them at full arm length not at a close distance.

I'd also ask to view each one so as to approximate how they would look set in a hanging pendant... which wouldn't necessarily look the same as viewing them in a ring setting with your arm extended. And hopefully the local jeweler's shop isn't one in an enclosed mall, where seeing a stone under more varied lighting conditions is, um, a "challenge."

Looking forward to hearing more from you tomorrow!
P.S. Do you think you will be able to make it there tomorrow? Almost 2 weeks is an awfully long time for a stone to be out of the other dealer's hands "on memo."

 

[Disoon]

I sell eyewear.

In our industry - it really is bad form to bring in an outside frame to compare to others in the shop.

We don’t have a problem with you taking pictures to view at home and compare. Perhaps it may have rubbed your local jeweller the wrong way when you requested this. But then he re-evaluated and kept things professional as the cost of buying diamonds is astronomically more $$$$ than glasses.

My point is maybe to look at things from his point of view - and maybe not to call in a stone if it didn’t really fit your parameters to start with.

 

[Venzen007]

and maybe not to call in a stone if it didn’t really fit your parameters to start with.

If you were applying that to me, your impression of how the situation worked is mistaken. Based on my criteria of asscher cut 1.5-2.0, IF-VS1, D-F, with a cap of 20k (a big range which will include a ton of stinkers, cut-wise), he chose the stones to call into the store, not me.

Whether eyeglasses or diamonds, the retailers have to understand that the buyer isn't there for the benefit of the shop; they're there for there own benefit. When due diligence becomes bad form, then the focus is in the wrong place.