Confused: Similar Diamonds with Different Prices

[toluun]

Hello All,

I am looking to buy an engagement ring with a budget of $5000. I talked to a few salesmen at several stores as well as doing a bit of research on my own. I narrowed down my search to the following criteria:

Carat: 0.75
Cut: Ideal
Color: >=G
Clarity: >=Sl1

However, when I go to compare similar diamonds I don't fully understand what causes a difference in price.

The three diamonds I am looking at are:

1. 0.75 carat, F, Sl2 price: $3373 http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD07070764
2. 0.75 carat, G, Sl2 price: $3488 http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD07636090
3. 0.75 carat, F, Sl2 price: $3612 ttp://www.bluenile.com/diamond-details/LD07894782

Any suggestions on what stone I should go with? All currently fit within my budget. My current thought is to go with Option 3, however when comparing the images side by side it seems like Option 3 sparkles a little less (it could be the light or I could be just crazy).


Thanks,

Toluun

 

[bmfang]

Had me questioning what you were paying for when i saw SI2 clarity grades, but all three stones are SI1's. In the case of the two F SI1's, the cheaper one has more inclusions visible under the crown facets compared with the more expensive one. So one might argue that one of them is a "lower grade" SI1 and the other is a "higher grade" SI1. To be honest, the more expensive F SI1 looks better to me than the cheaper one.

The G SI1 however looks even better to my eyes. The colour difference between F and G is virtually imperceptible and it looks eye clean to me. So it's the better "value" option in my view.

Is there a reason why you are looking at a F colour stone? Because you may be able to get a little more carat weight if you dropped down to a G or even a H colour stone with SI1 clarity.

 

[toluun]

Thanks for the reply!

There isn't really a reason I am looking at F I just wanted the best stone in my budget at that carat size. I went ring shopping with my gf and she liked the size of the stone cause she doesn't want something huge on her finger.

Would you recommend Option 2 then? Is G noticeable at all?

 

[tyty333]

I second bmfang...the G looks really nice. A well cut G (GIA/AGS) will be very white and bright.

 

[bmfang]

Thanks for the reply!

There isn't really a reason I am looking at F I just wanted the best stone in my budget at that carat size. I went ring shopping with my gf and she liked the size of the stone cause she doesn't want something huge on her finger.

Would you recommend Option 2 then? Is G noticeable at all?

The difference between a F and a G wouldn't usually be noticeable in normal viewing circumstances.

I do note however that Blue Nile's Signature range, while competitive, doesn't quite stack up in terms of optical precision as those stones at Whiteflash, Brian Gavin Diamonds and at times, James Allen's True Hearts. While the hearts in the G and more expensive F SI1's at BN look good, the lack of even-ness in the chevrons bugs me (but which may not bug you toluun).

So I took at look at the BGD and Whiteflash inventories. With BGD, there is only one stone in their signature range but it is significantly more expensive than the options at WF and BN. It's a 0.753 F/VS2:
http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/diamonds/diamond-details/0.753-f-vs2-round-diamond-ags-104080723021
The chevrons aren't perfect in the hearts image, but they are a lot more even than the BN F-G SI1s. ASET and Idealscope images for this BGD stone also look very good.

At Whiteflash, there is a 0.747 G/VS2 available in the WF Expert Selection which looks good and is roughly around the same price as the BN selections:
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3766244.htm
One of the arrow shafts doesn't quite line up with an arrow head, but again, the ASET and IS images for this stone look very good.

There is also a 0.778 H/VS2 A Cut Above stone at Whiteflash which looks good, in that price range as the more expensive Blue Nile F/SI1 and should be eye clean, but the ASET image shows what appears to be a black crystal under the table (though in the actual diamond image, I'm having a hard time spotting where it is):
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3765699.htm

Over at James Allen, a search of the True Hearts inventory, I think this one looks ok (though not sure if you would want to drop down to a H colour, but up to a VS1 in clarity):
https://www.jamesallen.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut/0.77-carat-h-color-vs1-clarity-ideal-cut-sku-2375261
IS and hearts image for this one looks not too shabby.

 

[toluun]

Thanks for all your help!

If you had a few minutes could you educate me on what I should be looking at when you talk about optical precision and the lack of evenness in the chevrons? I see what you talked about below with the arrow shafts aligning with the arrow head, however BN Option 2 diamond seems to be acceptable(to me) in that regards


Thanks

 

[Strawberry129]

A G would be bright imo.

Diamond prices may vary depending on specs and sometimes vendors just want to move/sell that particular diamond faster, hence lower pricing compared to diamonds with similar specs.

 

[bmfang]

Thanks for all your help!

If you had a few minutes could you educate me on what I should be looking at when you talk about optical precision and the lack of evenness in the chevrons? I see what you talked about below with the arrow shafts aligning with the arrow head, however BN Option 2 diamond seems to be acceptable(to me) in that regards


Thanks

Hi toluun,

OK, I'll do my best.

If you look at the GCAL report for the BN G/SI1 Signature Ideal (http://pics.bluenile.com/certs/262640010.pdf?params=Y291bnRyeT1VU0EmcHJvZHVjdD1CTiZwaG9uZT0xLTg4OC01NjUtNzY0MSZsaW5rPWh0dHAlM0ElMkYlMkZ3d3cuYmx1ZW5pbGUuY29tJTJGX0xEMDc2MzYwOTAmY3VycmVuY3k9VVNEJmxhYj1nY2FsJnNrdT1MRDA3NjM2MDkwJg%3D%3D) and zoom in on the hearts and arrows images, you'll notice a few things. For some of the arrows, the arrow shafts and heads don't quite align up.

With regard to the hearts, when I'm talking about the chevrons, I'm talking about those V's that are underneath each heart. You can see in the G/SI1, not all chevrons are the same size and the gap between the bottom of each heart and each chevron isn't nearly even.

If you then compare the Idealscope and Hearts images for the 0.778 H/VS2 A Cut Above stone from Whiteflash, it again isn't 100% perfect, but the arrow shafts and heads do line up more straight than the BN stone and the chevrons and hearts are more uniform in size.
http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/round-cut-loose-diamond-3765699.htm

The reason why for me this is important is that it goes down to what the marketing of each stone is for, i.e. That they are cut to super-ideal proportions. This means that there should be a far greater degree of optical symmetry when you look at the diamond from the crown up view or pavillion up view. The 0.75ct G/SI1 Blue Nile Signature Ideal likely wouldn't pass as a Super-Ideal at James Allen, Whiteflash, Victor Canera, Brian Gavin Diamonds, Crafted By Infinity, etc. Having said that, the 360 degree video of it does look good and it's one of the better stones in the BN inventory that I've seen in a while.

Does the above explanation make some sense?

I am anally retentive about super-ideal cut proportions on stones (which is what I've recently purchased myself for my wife). If you can live with the G/SI1 and are happy with it, don't let my anal retentiveness influence you any further!

 

[Diamond_Hawk]

Hi toluun,

I'm sure the experts here at PS will help you choose a beautiful diamond within your budget. (I cannot recommend stones as I'm in the trade).

To give you some insights as you look at diamonds with different vendors: think of diamonds with one particular GIA grade (e.g. SI1 stones) as a range of inclusions. In addition to the number of inclusions, the location and type of the inclusion also can affect pricing.

The same can be applied to color and cut grade.

In addition to those factors, the location and supplier, the expenses related to shipping and differences in vendor handling, labor and other costs can be reflected in consumer pricing.

As you debate the pricing, you may also want to consider 'after-sale' factors such as available warranty, return, upgrade and exchange policies of particular vendors which can also influence pricing.

 

[toluun]

That makes perfect sense to me! I am super anal as well so now the decision gets even more complex lol. I really appreciate all the knowledge!

 

[toluun]

Hey Bmfang what would you think of this http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?stockno=LD06992290 diamond compared to the others you mentioned. The chevrons look more evenly sized the the other BN diamonds I was looking at but I'm not too sure about the arrows, specifically the base of the arrow "shafts"

Im not completely attached to blue Nile I just really like the band and I'm having trouble finding something similar at whiteflash, which seems like a great site. I know I could buy the diamond and band separately but I feel like that might have just a little more risk involved.

 

[bmfang]

Hey Bmfang what would you think of this http://www.bluenile.com/diamond-search?stockno=LD06992290 diamond compared to the others you mentioned. The chevrons look more evenly sized the the other BN diamonds I was looking at but I'm not too sure about the arrows, specifically the base of the arrow "shafts"

Im not completely attached to blue Nile I just really like the band and I'm having trouble finding something similar at whiteflash, which seems like a great site. I know I could buy the diamond and band separately but I feel like that might have just a little more risk involved.

Hi toluun,

This one looks better to me as the facets look more evenly cut and you see that reflected in the hearts & arrows images. A bit more light loss under the table according to the GCAL report. The base of the arrow shafts bug me on both of them, but when looked at in the overall package, both stones look good for BN stones.

Only thing that bugs me is there is a crystal that is under the table in the VS2 that is hidden from view face up, but when one tilts it one way or the other (which is how the stone will likely be viewed when set) it shows up. It's likely to be eye clean as it doesn't look to be too large an inclusion, but compared with the G/SI1, the G/SI1 looks eye clean face up to my eyes. Both stones are just shy of the 6mm diameter so it's very likely (almost a damn guarantee) that they'll be eye clean (unless you have superhuman eyesight).

I do like the fluor that is present in the G/VS2 however. At a medium blue level, it's more than likely to enhance the look of the stone than detract from it, so with adequate exposure to UV (like in sunlight), the stone might end up facing up something more like a F rather than a G. Plus you have a party trick if you happen to have a black light handy.

Now there is just the $600 question as to whether you think it is worth spending the extra at BN for the VS2 stone rather than the SI1 stone. Effectively you are just paying for the upgrade from SI1 to VS2 and what appears to be a better cut stone (though I would have thought the fluor would have contributed to a lower price).

Personal opinion: I do prefer the stones over at WF and BGD compared with BN. I think that even WF's Expert Selection range is still better cut than Blue Nile's Signature Ideal and WF make it easy for you to check for light performance with the myriad of images they provide at the listing.

It sucks when you have a situation where you like the look of the setting at one place but the stone is from someplace else. But given that WF do custom work, might be worth enquiring with them as to whether they can do up a design that is similar to the band you like at BN?

Cheers,
bmfang

 

[toluun]

Thanks so much for your help!! I found a band I like at WF so I am definitely going to go with a diamond from them as they have been super helpful and have lots of information on hand.

 

[toluun]

If you had to choose one of three stone, which one would it be?

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3685699,3766244,3736754

They all seem identical, the people at WF recommend the .747 carat diamaond

 

[bmfang]

If you had to choose one of three stone, which one would it be?

http://www.whiteflash.com/loose-diamonds/compare.aspx?idnos=3685699,3766244,3736754

They all seem identical, the people at WF recommend the .747 carat diamaond

If you're looking for best bang for buck (i.e. More carat weight for least amount of $$$s), then I'd agree with the WF folks. If you are looking for as close to perfection in terms of facet alignment, then the ACA is the way to go. All comes down to the $ aspect eventually...

But of the two Expert Selection stones, I actually think the 0.74 is the better cut one. If you look at the centre of the stone, the little triangular sections that are in between each arrow shaft in the Diamond Image are more even and the arrow shafts are more cantered on the base of the arrow heads (you can see it in the Idealscope and ASET images).

The hearts image also looks better than the one for the 0.747 as well and you don't have to worry about the small inclusion under the table which you can see in the 0.747 stone.

So if I had to make a choice between the 0.74ct ES vs the 0.736 ACA, would I be willing to sacrifice 0.004ct for an additional $82? I probably would as those two stones will have the same spread essentially and I'm guaranteed with having a super-ideal cut stone. Don't know whether your budget would allow for that ACA though and whether you would do the same as I would.

Cheers,
bmfang