Conflicted over "Santa" Myth...

[iheartscience]

I used to babysit for some kids and their parents let them believe in Santa, but they only got a few small presents each year from Santa. The big presents were always from Mom and Dad. The parents wanted the kids to know it was their hard-earned money that bought all the good stuff! That always made sense to me, actually. Maybe you could try something like that with your kids?

 

[Octavia]

Date: 11/27/2009 1:09:04 PM
Author: ericad
All the input is much appreciated! A few things to add:

- we don''t intend to tell our 4 year old there is no Santa directly, or to just take it away instantly since we''ve already set the expectation. I just wonder if there''s a gentle way to lessen the focus on him over the next 2-3 years in an age appropriate way so that we land on the truth long before she''s old enough discover the lie. Basically, we have decided to ''do away'' with Santa, but not sure how to go about it!

- we are atheists and I do see a lot of parallels between teaching kids about Santa and teaching them to believe in a higher power (omnipotent male figure that rewards you for being good and punishes you for being bad, watches over you, has helpers, etc.) and see how that can add value for people of various faiths (preparing kids to have faith in that which you can''t see or prove), but it''s actually in direct opposition with our own beliefs. While we do celebrate Xmas, it''s about the winter season, thankfulness, giving and generosity, not the religious part of it (obviously).

Erica, I agree with you on much of this. DH and I don''t have kids yet, but I do want to continue celebrating Christmas in a cultural sense, though not a religious one (he doesn''t really understand the whole holiday, being from a very different culture altogether). But it is a strange tension between doing the holiday and overdoing it.

As far as the Santa myth, my parents started making him more of a "joke" as I got older. We always left out cookies, but we didn''t make a big production of looking at the sky to see his sled or anything. Once I was old enough to understand (probably 7 or so?) my dad "slipped" one Christmas morning and said something about how good the cookies were. I said "daddy, those were for SANTA" and he smiled and said, "oops, I hope I''m forgiven for eating Santa''s cookies." A year or two before that, he and my mom also started making a big deal about how important it was for me to go to bed early, so they could get stuff done before Santa came...and of course, at some point, the night came where I went to bed but not to sleep and heard them wrapping gifts, talking, laughing, etc. So I think it was a pretty natural process of realizing that mom and dad were Santa, but it wasn''t traumatic. They definitely tried to slip me clues so I would figure it out on my own. Also, "Santa''s" handwriting on gift tags always looked suspiciously like my father''s...

 

[monarch64]

Date: 11/27/2009 3:27:21 PM
Author: Octavia

Date: 11/27/2009 1:09:04 PM
Author: ericad
All the input is much appreciated! A few things to add:

- we don''t intend to tell our 4 year old there is no Santa directly, or to just take it away instantly since we''ve already set the expectation. I just wonder if there''s a gentle way to lessen the focus on him over the next 2-3 years in an age appropriate way so that we land on the truth long before she''s old enough discover the lie. Basically, we have decided to ''do away'' with Santa, but not sure how to go about it!

- we are atheists and I do see a lot of parallels between teaching kids about Santa and teaching them to believe in a higher power (omnipotent male figure that rewards you for being good and punishes you for being bad, watches over you, has helpers, etc.) and see how that can add value for people of various faiths (preparing kids to have faith in that which you can''t see or prove), but it''s actually in direct opposition with our own beliefs. While we do celebrate Xmas, it''s about the winter season, thankfulness, giving and generosity, not the religious part of it (obviously).

Erica, I agree with you on much of this. DH and I don''t have kids yet, but I do want to continue celebrating Christmas in a cultural sense, though not a religious one (he doesn''t really understand the whole holiday, being from a very different culture altogether). But it is a strange tension between doing the holiday and overdoing it.

As far as the Santa myth, my parents started making him more of a ''joke'' as I got older. We always left out cookies, but we didn''t make a big production of looking at the sky to see his sled or anything. Once I was old enough to understand (probably 7 or so?) my dad ''slipped'' one Christmas morning and said something about how good the cookies were. I said ''daddy, those were for SANTA'' and he smiled and said, ''oops, I hope I''m forgiven for eating Santa''s cookies.'' A year or two before that, he and my mom also started making a big deal about how important it was for me to go to bed early, so they could get stuff done before Santa came...and of course, at some point, the night came where I went to bed but not to sleep and heard them wrapping gifts, talking, laughing, etc. So I think it was a pretty natural process of realizing that mom and dad were Santa, but it wasn''t traumatic. They definitely tried to slip me clues so I would figure it out on my own. Also, ''Santa''s'' handwriting on gift tags always looked suspiciously like my father''s...

Hahaha...my mother used to try to "disguise" her handwriting when writing as "Santa" to us (thanking us for the cookies, etc.) Your description of how you figured things out sounds much like my experience. Really not traumatic at all.

 

[ericad]

You guys are so lucky. Part of the reason it was so negative for me was because I really didn''t question Santa AT ALL. I believed with 100% certainty that everything they told me was true, like when I asked why Santa used the same wrapping paper as mom and dad

I forget what they told me, but it made sense! But then I went to school after the holiday and talked with friends about what Santa brought me and one particularly Scrooge-like child did the whole pointing/laughing/ridiculing thing and told all of us he wasn''t real. So I ran home and confronted my mother, who defeatedly fessed up. I was pretty angry, embarrassed, and hurt that they lied to my face, and that my big brother was in on it too

Is there anyone here who has started with Santa, but then had a change of heart and found a gentle way to bring your child the truth at a young age? I think one thing I''ve learned here is that it''s important for the truth to come from mom and dad or the child herself, regardless of when or how.

I had lunch with several parents and we all struggled with the same thing. Some of them also regretted starting the Santa tradition. There was a mom there who never did Santa with her kids and she taught them not to spoil it for other kids, but says they still have all the same anticipation and joy that she did as a child (her parents did the Santa thing and she was also disappointed by the experience). They just focus on a celebration of love, family, health, happiness. The kids squirm with excitement when others open the gifts they made and it''s more about giving than receiving, since the focus is taken off the receiving end of it (since it''s all from mom and dad).

I like the idea of doing just a few gifts from Santa and the rest from mom and dad this year. Last year it all came from Santa in our house, but I don''t think she remembers that much detail. So that''s where we will start.

Thanks to everyone who shared their point of view.

 

[mia1181]

I honestly don''t remember when I learned Santa wasn''t real... it must have been so gradual. One thing I do know was by the time my parents told me (around 8 or 9), I already knew. I think most of the kids I knew figured it out on their own as they matured and then it became something we pretended to believe in for our parents. When my parents told me I didn''t know what to do so I acted surprised. I got really dramatic and cried and did the whole "you lied to me!" routine, but it was all an act... To this day my parents do not believe I was acting and they like to tell people how upset I got.

Honestly, in the grand scheme of things I don''t think lying to kids so that you can give them a bunch of presents is really that bad of a betrayal. It''s not like revealing that they were adopted or anything like that. The vast majority of kids will forgive you, and if not I''d ask if they''d rather we didn''t give the presents.

I also think as a parent it is important to not project your own issues on to your kids. If you don''t want to perpetuate the whole Santa thing, fine, your kids will survive and Christmas can still be special. But in general I would be careful about taking away life experiences just because you had a bad memory. Life is life and your kids will be dissappointed at some point. Just be careful is all I am saying.

As for your 4 yo, I personally would probably just not say anything about Santa anymore. If you say things like "Santa is only for little kids" your daughter will probably repeat it to her friends. Just switch the focus. I am going to probably tell my kids about Santa, but it definitely won''t be the focus of Christmas. I will not be one of those mothers threatening "I''m going to tell Santa!" Instead I want my kids to focus on what they can do for others at Christmas.

I don''t think parents should be confronting the Santa issue until the kid is old enough to figure it out on their own. When my kids begin to get suspicious I will use the copout that someone said earlier "some believe, some don''t." I''ll ask what my child believes and support either way. The child is just not going to believe forever. Let them figure it out on their own when they are mature enough to handle it. Maybe make it a big deal when they find out. Tell them how clever they are and make it fun by letting them play secret-Santa to someone else.

You also bring up a good point about Atheism. My DH and I are also atheists and while I think Santa is a relatively harmless lie, I feel so conflicted about telling my kids about God. I don''t want my kids to be mad at me when they learn our true beliefs but I do think I need some way to explain death to a young child. I''ll probably take the Santa approach in this case: talk about heaven until the kid is old enough to have a real conversation about beliefs.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 11/27/2009 3:54:46 PM
Author: mia1181
I honestly don''t remember when I learned Santa wasn''t real... it must have been so gradual. One thing I do know was by the time my parents told me (around 8 or 9), I already knew. I think most of the kids I knew figured it out on their own as they matured and then it became something we pretended to believe in for our parents. When my parents told me I didn''t know what to do so I acted surprised. I got really dramatic and cried and did the whole ''you lied to me!'' routine, but it was all an act... To this day my parents do not believe I was acting and they like to tell people how upset I got.

Honestly, in the grand scheme of things I don''t think lying to kids so that you can give them a bunch of presents is really that bad of a betrayal. It''s not like revealing that they were adopted or anything like that. The vast majority of kids will forgive you, and if not I''d ask if they''d rather we didn''t give the presents.

I also think as a parent it is important to not project your own issues on to your kids. If you don''t want to perpetuate the whole Santa thing, fine, your kids will survive and Christmas can still be special. But in general I would be careful about taking away life experiences just because you had a bad memory. Life is life and your kids will be dissappointed at some point. Just be careful is all I am saying.

As for your 4 yo, I personally would probably just not say anything about Santa anymore. If you say things like ''Santa is only for little kids'' your daughter will probably repeat it to her friends. Just switch the focus. I am going to probably tell my kids about Santa, but it definitely won''t be the focus of Christmas. I will not be one of those mothers threatening ''I''m going to tell Santa!'' Instead I want my kids to focus on what they can do for others at Christmas.

I don''t think parents should be confronting the Santa issue until the kid is old enough to figure it out on their own. When my kids begin to get suspicious I will use the copout that someone said earlier ''some believe, some don''t.'' I''ll ask what my child believes and support either way. The child is just not going to believe forever. Let them figure it out on their own when they are mature enough to handle it. Maybe make it a big deal when they find out. Tell them how clever they are and make it fun by letting them play secret-Santa to someone else.

You also bring up a good point about Atheism. My DH and I are also atheists and while I think Santa is a relatively harmless lie, I feel so conflicted about telling my kids about God. I don''t want my kids to be mad at me when they learn our true beliefs but I do think I need some way to explain death to a young child. I''ll probably take the Santa approach in this case: talk about heaven until the kid is old enough to have a real conversation about beliefs.

Mia, I''m not debating either side, but I highlighted the first paragraph of your post because I found it so interesting that the parents tell their children an "untruth" about this Santa Claus thing, and then the children in order to spare the feelings of the parents or to appease them or whatever, turn around and pretend to be upset. (Ok, yours is only one example but I''m willing to bet that that was not a singular incident in the history of this whole concept.) So, like one good lie deserves another? Hee hee.

 

[mia1181]

Definitely Monarch, very ironic. A cycle of lies. They were lying for me and then I lied for them. But I still contend that it''s not that big of a deal. I guess in my mind these little fibs are a lot like telling someone the food they made tastes good, or you like the shirt they are wearing. Your kids will see you tell little "white lies" all the time whether you lie to them about Santa or not.

 

[monarch64]

Date: 11/27/2009 4:17:46 PM
Author: mia1181
Definitely Monarch, very ironic. A cycle of lies. They were lying for me and then I lied for them. But I still contend that it''s not that big of a deal. I guess in my mind these little fibs are a lot like telling someone the food they made tastes good, or you like the shirt they are wearing. Your kids will see you tell little ''white lies'' all the time whether you lie to them about Santa or not.

Right, I definitely get that and I don''t think it''s a huge deal either. It just strikes me as funny how we tell the kids to be good all year so Santa will bring them presents, but we''re lying to them. It''s the whole "do as I say, not as I do" thing. I''m just bored at work today...otherwise I probably wouldn''t have much interest in this topic. Until I have kids, I guess!

 

[Maria D]

eericad, I think your phase-out idea where mom/dad take over as kids get older is an excellent one! It sounds like you already know exactly what to do for your family.

I do not remember really believing in santa; more like pretending to believe just for fun. Our family made a bigger deal out of Christmas Eve than Christmas Day and we opened gifts from family/relatives on the eve. The next morning there'd be some additional gifts from "santa" but the Christmas "magic" was all about the family gathering, eating and gift sharing of Christmas Eve. As we got older, we stayed up so late on the eve that Christmas Day was an afterthought.

OTOH, my husband's family made a huge deal over Santa and Christmas Day. His family were/are practicing Catholics. Christmas Eve was all about the religious aspect of the holiday and Christmas Day was about santa. My husband believed in santa until he was ten years old and was crushed to find out it was a myth -- but he got over it just fine.

Fast forward to today and neither of us are religious. I believe in some notion of "god" but DH is a complete atheist. Nevertheless, *both* of us love the holiday season and the "magic" that it brings. Many who have posted feel that their belief in santa is what made for the great memories, but I feel there's as many ways to produce that magic as there are families with traditions. Bottom line, if *you* feel that perpetuating the myth is outright lying to your kid, then you probably shouldn't do it.

With our own daughter, DH wanted to do santa and I said fine but I'm staying out of it. He blew it early on by accidentally wrapping santa gifts in the same paper as mom/dad gifts. He had an explanation for her but when a fellow kindergartener later told her that santa was really mom and dad, she put all the evidence together and figured that must be the truth. I was relieved that we could again make the eve the bigger celebration (as we had done before having a kid), and DD went on loving the x-mas season.

I did *not* tell my daughter that she needed to keep the secret for other children and don't understand parents who do that. Hello, there is no santa! As with everything else (sex and drugs come to mind), if you don't want your kids to get their information from other kids, then tell them the truth yourself. Kaleigh said that many are crushed to find out the truth about santa, but that's life -- I say finding out stuff from other kids on the playground is life too!

 

[mia1181]

Date: 11/27/2009 4:31:12 PM
Author: monarch64

Date: 11/27/2009 4:17:46 PM
Author: mia1181
Definitely Monarch, very ironic. A cycle of lies. They were lying for me and then I lied for them. But I still contend that it''s not that big of a deal. I guess in my mind these little fibs are a lot like telling someone the food they made tastes good, or you like the shirt they are wearing. Your kids will see you tell little ''white lies'' all the time whether you lie to them about Santa or not.

Right, I definitely get that and I don''t think it''s a huge deal either. It just strikes me as funny how we tell the kids to be good all year so Santa will bring them presents, but we''re lying to them. It''s the whole ''do as I say, not as I do'' thing. I''m just bored at work today...otherwise I probably wouldn''t have much interest in this topic. Until I have kids, I guess!

he he me too.... No kids either and I am actually sitting around waiting to leave for work! I hope you didn''t think I was arguing with you, the last sentence of my post the "you" wasn''t directed at you personally. I do find it funny, I felt bad for parents and didn''t want to ruin the fun of playing Santa for them either.

 

[Shoopy]

I have never met someone that felt betrayed. It seems like an over sensitive reaction to me. If you think that your daughter may be very sensitive then the phaseout plan sounds good.

I also was lead to believe 100% in Santa. In our home there were never any gifts under our tree until Santa came. I mean not a single gift. Christmas morning would come and our living room would be filled with gifts from santa. And the best part was that Santa used to leave gifts for my cousins and for our local church so our tradition was to get dressed and drive all over NY delivering gifts. My dad said Santa left gifts for other people because it was very important to Santa that we learn how to share. The whole day was just a beautiful day.

 

[ericad]

One thing to clarify is that I agree that life lessons are important and I don''t intend to shelter my child from life or disappointment. I always tell her the truth. She has a vegetarian friend (and my dad is Veg too) so she asked us all about meat. I told her the truth - where it comes from, etc. When our 2 dogs died within the past year, I told her the truth in accordance with our beliefs (try explaining death to a 4 year old without using concepts like heaven - it''s HARD!) DD is really into talking about death right now, and sometimes the truth upsets her and she cries at the idea that we all die, and it''s a constant struggle to walk that delicate balance of telling the truth in an age-appropriate way. Yesterday we watched Charlotte''s Web and she sobbed for 20 minutes at the end, not to mention bouts of tears throughout the film at the injustices Wilbur faced in his short life (just like I had done as a child).

Some call it over sensitive (I prefer "highly sensitive") but fact is DD is just like me and even though I have very fond memories of Santa and the traditions surrounding the myth, I believe Xmas would have been even better for me, overall, without the lie. I truly feel that way. I''m not suggesting that finding out about Santa ruined my life or anything, but it definitely changed the way I felt about the holiday (and my parents) for years.

So while my memories of Santa are great, even better are my memories of baking cookies with my mom, decorating the tree, choosing special gifts for everyone and hiding out in my brother''s room wrapping them up, listening to my mom curse as she lit up the front yard with lights (cigarette dangling from her mouth and all, lol), and driving around the neighborhood with dad to look at everyone''s Xmas lights. The Santa portion added some extra color to the canvas but the lesson I learned was that mom and dad lie to me when it suits them, then laugh at how cute and funny it was to trick me. Seriously, that''s what my 7 year old self walked away with (and again, I recognize that''s not the norm, but it was a bad experience for me for whatever reasons, maybe because my parents could have handled it better too).

My friend, who also has a highly sensitive child, truly regrets the lie, and that is really what jump started all this. Luckily DH and I are on the same page and I think we have a solid plan. This year we will only have 2-3 gifts from Santa and will find a tactful way of phasing him out over the next 2-3 years. She''s only 4, so perhaps we will tell her about the real St. Nick and what he did, and talk about the spirit of the holiday and how Santa is an idea and a feeling and that many children believe their presents come from Santa, and let her draw her own conclusions. We will not leave him cookies or do anything more that misleads her into thinking that Santa is a real person who comes down the chimney, etc. SIGH. Though just the other day she asked me to show her on the globe where Santa lives in relation to us, her grandma, etc. so he''s definitely a concrete person in her mind already! But we will be super gentle about it and if it looks like she is really hanging on and not ready to think of it in a different way, we will just remain status quo. Obviously we don''t want to do more harm than good!

 

[Skippy123]

Date: 11/27/2009 6:23:14 PM
Author: ericad
One thing to clarify is that I agree that life lessons are important and I don't intend to shelter my child from life or disappointment. I always tell her the truth.

Some call it over sensitive (I prefer 'highly sensitive') but fact is DD is just like me and even though I have very fond memories of Santa and the traditions surrounding the myth, I believe Xmas would have been even better for me, overall, without the lie. I truly feel that way. I'm not suggesting that finding out about Santa ruined my life or anything, but it definitely changed the way I felt about the holiday (and my parents) for years.

So while my memories of Santa are great, even better are my memories of baking cookies with my mom, decorating the tree, choosing special gifts for everyone and hiding out in my brother's room wrapping them up, listening to my mom curse as she lit up the front yard with lights (cigarette dangling from her mouth and all, lol), and driving around the neighborhood with dad to look at everyone's Xmas lights.

sounds like you know your daughter best so I think your plan sounds pretty good to me. I actually had a neighbor that was a year younger than my sister and a few years younger than me growing up. Her parents made a huge deal about santa and I clearly remember when the other neighbor kid ruined it for her. She was devastated and felt betrayed too like you. I remember her asking my sister and I if we believed in Santa after the truth came out and we actually were never given presents from Santa. We did know who Santa was and knew he was all in fun; it sounds like you know how she may react so you know what to do specific for her. Plus I think baking cookies w/mom was the best thing ever! We did pull a gift off the gift tree at the mall and buy something for someone else so that might a fun thing to do too; in the spirit of giving.

 

[ericad]

That's a great idea, Skippy (and thank you for the supportive sentiments)! We actually started a tradition last year, where DD chooses one of her new Xmas gifts (as do we) and donates it to charity, because she understands there are kids in the world who don't have parents, or homes to have Christmas in, etc. She does this willingly and happily, especially since she always receives an obscene amount of packages under the tree and knows she is lucky in so many ways. She got so into it, she started a PILE of gifts to donate, lol, and we had to reign her in, or else she would have given it all away! She kept saying, "I don't NEED this book, I have lots of books. I don't NEED this dress, I have lots of dresses. I don't NEED these DVDs, I don't even like watching movies...mommy, you don't really NEED those new knives, right?"

We also set an example by making charitable contributions in people's names to hang on the tree, in addition to giving wrapped gifts (she helps us select personally meaningful causes like National Wildlife Federation for the animals, Breast Cancer for mommy's friend at work, Children's Hospital for the 2 kids in her school who are sick, etc.)

I was so proud of her - for her 4th Bday she came to me and asked if we could have her party at the zoo and instead of birthday presents she would rather ask her friends to give money to the zoo animals. So that's what we did - parents paid their family's admission to the zoo and we rented out the carousel room for her party. There were no gifts and after the party the families could enjoy a day at the zoo with their kids. Instead of goodie bags we gave out $5 zoo store gift cards to the kids so they could pick their own items. We were pleased at how many grandparents and siblings came to make a day of it. DD is already thinking of what she can do in this same vain next year, lol, but I haven't come up with anything!

 

[packrat]

I think Christmas is magical regardless of Santa being the one to bring the presents or not. Even not ever having Christmas at all growing up, as an adult now, I get a kick out of seeing Santas all over at Christmas time. As I said before, the "feeling" of Santa, makes me happy and giggly like a kid. London understands more about the holiday now, and she''s over the moon to start decorating tomorrow. We don''t bring religion into the holiday at all, it''s just about fun and family and wishing for good things for other people.

London and Trapper won''t have memories of Santa bringing great presents and landing on our roof in his sleigh, but we''ve started our own traditions for the holiday, so hopefully the kids will remember watching Snoopy Christmas and decorating the tree, cooking/baking with us, driving around at night to look at all the decorated houses, cozy new Christmas jammies to snuggle up in when we open presents, their own specific ornament for the tree each year to collect, things like that.

 

[hawaiianorangetree]

A couple of years ago the day after xmas my daughter asked me: "Mum, does Santa live in China?"
I said to her "No, of course not, he lives in the North Pole" and she said..

"Well why do all my presents have made in china on them??"

She is 9 now and even though all the signs are there (same xmas wrapping paper in the cupboard, my handwriting on the cards) she is still holding onto santa being real and i say good luck to her.. there''s only a few small years in your life when you get to believe in Santa and then so many years after that where you don''t.

I also think Christmas has become alot more fun as an adult with the kids and santa... i get to re live my childhood again!!

 

[partgypsy]

It will be an interesting Christmas. My oldest daughter who is turning 7 completely believes in the tooth fairy, Santa, other fairies, etc even though she is very bright. Her belief in the world can also encompasse that magical things can happen as well. She has asked tough questions about how Santa has time to deliver all the presents (a: he has a special magic that slows everything down so he can do things so much faster than regular people) how come he lives in the north pole but I heard that no one lives there and it is covered in water (there is a special town on a island on the north pole that only Santa and his elves live) how come there are presents from name brands that are obviously not made by hand or elves? (a: there are so many kids that get presents that he gets help from other people to get all the presents ready for Christmas, but still some are made by elves). What can I say, we are in deep. It will be interesting because a month prior she had already written her Santa letter but we won''t have either thing for her Santa gift (Santa''s giving something different) so hopefully she''ll still be happy though it wasn''t on her list, we''ll see.
When I was a kid I learned from my older brother, on a day before Christmas, him showing us where all the presents were hidden from Santa in our parent''s bedroom. I was disappointed, but I didn''t blame my parents because I realized they had spent all this time and energy to make something extra special for me for Christmas. And isn''t that what Christmas is about anyways?

 

[swingirl]

We always told out kids most of the presents are from mom and dad but there is a very special one from Santa. "There are so many children around the world he can only bring one gift to each child." That way they understand that mom and dad are in on it too and people give each other gifts just like Santa does.

Eventually they figure it out. Telling a 4 year old there is no Santa isn''t going to help her because all the kids she tries to "enlighten" will call her a liar and tell her she is wrong wrong wrong. Most kids figure it out and by the time they start asking a lot of questions they already have their doubts.

My advice would be don''t spoil the fun by trying to save her from the "shock". It really isn''t such a shock anyway. Kids are pretty smart.

 

[Haven]

I have very clear memories of my friends debating The Santa Issue when we were around 8 or 9 years old. I always stayed out of it because my parents told me to, but I remember the kids who still believed getting very upset at the kids who said he wasn''t real. The one thing I would be sure to do, if you decide to tell your kids that Santa doesn''t exist, is to teach your children to NOT ruin the magic for their still-believing friends.

As someone who convinced her sister to stay up long enough to see that the tooth fairy bears a remarkable resemblance to our father, I can tell you that it does not feel good to be the one who ruins the magic for someone else. Don''t let *your* kid be *that* kid.

 

[MichelleCarmen]

Date: 11/26/2009 11:50:46 PM
Author: Allison D.
I can''t imagine not having believed in Santa as a child - as many have said, the wondrousness and magic of it is a VERY strong memory for me, so much so that Christmas is STILL my favorite time of year.

I wasn''t crushed to learn there was no Santa, and I can''t say I knew anyone else who felt traumatized by it either.

If I had children, there''s no way I''d want them to miss out on it. As far as I''m concerned, if I had a child and they reached the age where it started to occur to them that Santa wasn''t real, I''d come clean by saying ''Santa the red-suit guy isn''t real, per se, but Santa is real......because Santa is me.''

2nd to everything Allison said. To add: when I discovered Santa wasn''t real, rather than my mom admiting to anything, she would just smile and at Christmas santa would still bring me presents. Even at 18 santa was filling my stocking.

I''m guessing with my two boys, since they''re so close in age and have many of the same friends that both of them will discover the truth together. Even then, I''ll still fill their stockings.

This year to create holiday magic, my MIL took the boys with her on Wednesday night and then we had thanksgiving at a relatives . . .so the boys were gone until today (Friday) and on Wednesday, I had decorated the house, so they came home to all our fun decorations like nutcrackers and snowglobes. They loved it. We don''t have a tree yet and as a "temp" tree I put mini ornaments on my ficus.

 

[Mrs Mitchell]

Date: 11/27/2009 3:27:21 PM
Author: Octavia

Date: 11/27/2009 1:09:04 PM
Author: ericad
All the input is much appreciated! A few things to add:

- we don''t intend to tell our 4 year old there is no Santa directly, or to just take it away instantly since we''ve already set the expectation. I just wonder if there''s a gentle way to lessen the focus on him over the next 2-3 years in an age appropriate way so that we land on the truth long before she''s old enough discover the lie. Basically, we have decided to ''do away'' with Santa, but not sure how to go about it!

- we are atheists and I do see a lot of parallels between teaching kids about Santa and teaching them to believe in a higher power (omnipotent male figure that rewards you for being good and punishes you for being bad, watches over you, has helpers, etc.) and see how that can add value for people of various faiths (preparing kids to have faith in that which you can''t see or prove), but it''s actually in direct opposition with our own beliefs. While we do celebrate Xmas, it''s about the winter season, thankfulness, giving and generosity, not the religious part of it (obviously).

Erica, I agree with you on much of this. DH and I don''t have kids yet, but I do want to continue celebrating Christmas in a cultural sense, though not a religious one (he doesn''t really understand the whole holiday, being from a very different culture altogether). But it is a strange tension between doing the holiday and overdoing it.

As far as the Santa myth, my parents started making him more of a ''joke'' as I got older. We always left out cookies, but we didn''t make a big production of looking at the sky to see his sled or anything. Once I was old enough to understand (probably 7 or so?) my dad ''slipped'' one Christmas morning and said something about how good the cookies were. I said ''daddy, those were for SANTA'' and he smiled and said, ''oops, I hope I''m forgiven for eating Santa''s cookies.'' A year or two before that, he and my mom also started making a big deal about how important it was for me to go to bed early, so they could get stuff done before Santa came...and of course, at some point, the night came where I went to bed but not to sleep and heard them wrapping gifts, talking, laughing, etc. So I think it was a pretty natural process of realizing that mom and dad were Santa, but it wasn''t traumatic. They definitely tried to slip me clues so I would figure it out on my own. Also, ''Santa''s'' handwriting on gift tags always looked suspiciously like my father''s...

No idea what we''ll do about Santa, but since A is only 18 months I don''t need to worry yet.

Just wanted to say Octavia, your parents sound lovely!

 

[HVVS]

I guess I''m not easily traumatized. My parents did the Santa thing all the way. And I had a brother 7 years younger, so that meant it went on quite a few years, and "do not ruin it for him, Big Sis." I don''t even recall when or how I found out that Santa is fiction. But I don''t think it had any real impact on me one way or the other, except that I suddenly knew just why I''d never found certain gifts under the Christmas tree, lol. There were two toys that I can vividly recall wanting with all my heart and soul at the time, and I was truly depressed that Santa didn''t bring them. It''s probably why I buy big diamond rings now.

 

[beltane]

I don''t post often, but lurk often... I LOVE Santa!!! Growing up I loved watching up in the sky on Christmas Eve, sitting up in bed trying to hear reindeer hooves on the roof, finding the half eaten snack the next morning, and finding a present and a stocking! Santa did not go overboard when I was a child, but that didn''t change the magic. It was wonderful! It was magical.

My mother, in her wisdom, had the best answer when I asked her if Santa was real. "Well, I''ve heard that some people don''t believe in Santa Claus, but I do! And I''ll tell you something else I''ve heard: if you stop believing in him, he''ll stop coming. So, I still believe, and he still keeps coming. He''s wonderful!"

In my heart I knew the truth, but it has never been discussed even to this day (and my mom is 84!)... it didn''t change the excitement on Christmas Eve, doing all our traditions of preparing his snack, watching the Santa reports on TV, and running downstairs in the morning.

I have raised 5 kids and have 4 grandchildren now... and we ALL believe! I adore the magic of Santa.

 

[perry]

I am dissapointed that so many people do not believe in Santa....

Of course Santa is real... His spirit is incredible.

Of course, he can''t actually be everywhere and can''t actually physically travel the entier world in a single night.... But his spirit can.

He has lots of helpers (who often dress up as Santa). Many people volunteer. The good volunteers soak up more of Santa''s spirit and are magical. The bad volunteers let their negativity show though (and then there are the criminals who disguize themselves as Santa - Ugg).

I was never taught that any specific person was Santa. But, it is far more obvious that Santa exist because of the manifestation of his spirit than many other things.

What is wrong about teaching children about the true Santa and how his spirit works.

Perry

 

[Sha]

My parents never perpetuated the Santa myth, perhaps because Santa isn''t as big in our culture as it is North America. My parents always waited till we''d gone to sleep on Christmas Eve to sneak presents under the tree, so wakling up on Christmas morning and seeing the presents under the tree was always magical and surprising and exciting.

But we were never told that ''Santa'' brought them, so we always assumed it was Mommy and Daddy somehow. We never felt shortchanged in any way, not believing in Santa. We always just knew that he was just a fictional character, really.

 

[Callisto]

Date: 11/28/2009 1:49:37 AM
Author: MC

Date: 11/26/2009 11:50:46 PM

Author: Allison D.

I can''t imagine not having believed in Santa as a child - as many have said, the wondrousness and magic of it is a VERY strong memory for me, so much so that Christmas is STILL my favorite time of year.


I wasn''t crushed to learn there was no Santa, and I can''t say I knew anyone else who felt traumatized by it either.


If I had children, there''s no way I''d want them to miss out on it. As far as I''m concerned, if I had a child and they reached the age where it started to occur to them that Santa wasn''t real, I''d come clean by saying ''Santa the red-suit guy isn''t real, per se, but Santa is real......because Santa is me.''

2nd to everything Allison said. To add: when I discovered Santa wasn''t real, rather than my mom admiting to anything, she would just smile and at Christmas santa would still bring me presents. Even at 18 santa was filling my stocking.


I''m guessing with my two boys, since they''re so close in age and have many of the same friends that both of them will discover the truth together. Even then, I''ll still fill their stockings.


This year to create holiday magic, my MIL took the boys with her on Wednesday night and then we had thanksgiving at a relatives . . .so the boys were gone until today (Friday) and on Wednesday, I had decorated the house, so they came home to all our fun decorations like nutcrackers and snowglobes. They loved it. We don''t have a tree yet and as a ''temp'' tree I put mini ornaments on my ficus.

MC, I''m 22 and my parents still give presents from Santa... they are too funny. I try to thank them for what they got me and then just act really silly and tell me that THEY didn''t get that gift, SANTA did... gotta love the persistence...


Also funny santa story... a friend of mine is a smart girl but can be somewhat ditzy at times. Anyway, when she was little she found out that santa wasn''t real and took it a little harder than most, but eventually got over it. Then later that year her mom made a comment about one of the other magical holiday people not being real (I don''t remember if it was the easter bunny or the tooth fairy) because she assumed that her daughter had put the rest of it together and she definitely hadn''t and went through the whole shocked process a second time. She just laughs about it now, definitely not traumatized but all of our friends think it just so typical of her personality to have done that.

 

[ladypirate]

Santa was always big in our house--we would write him letters (with responses in very stylized handwriting!), leave out cookies and milk and carrots for the reindeer, get presents from him, etc. I loved it and so did my sisters. Although I stopped REALLY believing when I was around 12, we kept it up all through high school. When I asked my mom, she gave me this to read and it still makes me tear up every time:

"DEAR EDITOR: I am 8 years old.
"Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus.
"Papa says, ''If you see it in THE SUN it''s so.''
"Please tell me the truth; is there a Santa Claus?

"VIRGINIA O''HANLON.
"115 WEST NINETY-FIFTH STREET."

VIRGINIA, your little friends are wrong. They have been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except [what] they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be men''s or children''s, are little. In this great universe of ours man is a mere insect, an ant, in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him, as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, VIRGINIA, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy. Alas! how dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no VIRGINIAS. There would be no childlike faith then, no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment, except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus! You might as well not believe in fairies! You might get your papa to hire men to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus, but even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus, but that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus. The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor men can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not, but that''s no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders there are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You may tear apart the baby''s rattle and see what makes the noise inside, but there is a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest man, nor even the united strength of all the strongest men that ever lived, could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance, can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond. Is it all real? Ah, VIRGINIA, in all this world there is nothing else real and abiding.

No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, ten times ten thousand years from now, he will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

 

[radiantquest]

It wasn''t a big deal when I found out. My parents didn''t have to break the news to me. Like finding out the tooth fairy and Easter bunny aren''t real. It was just something that I figured out on my own.
One year when my sister was younger my parents scraped together as much money as they could and bought my sister gifts. Neither one of them were paying attention and all the gifts ended up being from Santa. On Christmas morning she opened all her gifts and was hurt that mom and dad didn''t get her anything. They ended up borrowing money from my step-dads mother to go buy her more gifts because they spent every dollar they had.
I remember when my step-daughter stopped believing. It was great. Really saved us money at Christmas time. I mean it cuts the cost in half when they aren''t expecting gifts from you and someone else that is imaginary.

 

[ericad]

Just to clarify, we don't plan to tell our 4 year old there is no Santa, lol. That would be a horrible thing to do! I started this thread looking for help devising a story or technique that would help us phase him out gradually over the next 2-3 years in a gentle and age-appropriate way. We have many legitimate reasons for wanting to reverse the Santa path we've taken and it's what we feel is best for our family and our child.

As for faith, a big part of our conflict is that we don't teach her faith in any other aspect of our lives (hope, yes, faith, no), so saying without faith life would be intolerable and dreary and that lack of faith would extinguish a child's internal light, etc. is exactly what we believe to be untrue. We don't "do" blind faith so the Santa myth is in direct opposition with our beliefs.

There is nothing wrong with the IDEA of Santa, the spirit of what he stands for, etc. But we feel it's wrong to tell her that a corporeal magical figure spends all year watching her behavior, then flies around on a sleigh delivering presents down the chimney if she's good, lumps of coal if she's bad. That is just untrue and I do see it as lying to my child in a way that we just don't do in our family. It's asking her to deviate from the way we teach her to think about everything else in the world (what can be seen, felt, proven).

Many people I've spoken with and some anecdotes on this thread, in addition to my own experience, prove that this can be disappointing and traumatic to some kids. Not solely because they're over sensitive or ditzy (likely the opposite, since highly sensitive children are typically very bright.) It's not the norm, but it happens and I just don't want to knowingly cause my daughter heartache just to perpetuate some myth that isn't even important to us or in keeping with our beliefs. So much about Xmas is wonderful that I don't believe kids need Santa for it to be a special and wondrous time.

So to kind of course-correct this thread in a way that's helpful for me, it's not a "should I tell my kid there's no Santa" thread, but rather, "can folks give me suggestions on how to gently phase out Santa over the next few years cuz we made a great big mistake and wish to undo it without hurting our child or ruining the holiday for other kids she knows!"

Thanks!

 

[Dancing Fire]

Date: 11/26/2009 2:11:14 PM
Author:ericad
Ok, so my friend recently disclosed to her 9 year old (after much prodding and very specific questions) that there is no Santa. Her daughter was crushed. I mean sobbing in her room, ''I can''t believe you lied to me'', heartbroken. My friend feels just horrible and severely regrets perpetuating the Santa myth. However, after a few days her daughter thanked her for finally telling the truth (ouch).

now you tell me?...