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Comparing two Octavia Asschers

SFGuy

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May 30, 2011
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Hi folks,

First time posting, but I've been lurking since starting my search. You guys rock (pun intended). :tongue:

So, I'm in the process of designing an e-ring for my GF with a local jeweler. I decided pretty early on that I wanted to go with an asscher for the center stone. However, after reading quite a bit online (including here), I came across the Octavias and was blown away. Although it's obviously not their first choice, the jeweler is willing to set an Octavia if that's what I want and I buy one online (from GOG obviously, since they are the only place selling them).

That said, I ordered one with GOG last week, just waiting for them to have it inscribed with the certificate number. However, now I'm wondering if the other, similar Octavia is a better stone (in terms of fire and brilliance). I'll probably call GOG tomorrow to ask them to compare the two for me, and maybe even see if they'd do one of their video comparisons, but I'm hoping the PS folks here might be able to read the ASET/DiamXray images better than I can.

Here are the two stones:

Thoughts?
 

marcy

Super_Ideal_Rock
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23,959
The first one is on hold. Oh no - I hope it's you.

I am no expert at all on Asschers but I like the second one better just from the picture no other reason. I think they are both very pretty.
 

diamondseeker2006

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They both look like great stones, and perhaps Karl will chime in (he is the designer of the Octavias)! I'd probably switch to the 1.15 because it is a little larger than the other since asschers face up a bit small.
 

Amys Bling

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My inital reaction is that there seems to be more contrast in the second stone you posted... but I could be wrong- I am not too familiar with ASET for octavias. With that being said- I think you should definitely go ahead with asking GOG about comparing the two and giving their expert opinion about the light performance of the stones and making a video for you.
 

yssie

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Oooh another Octavia hunt!!

They are designed by a former PS consumer who is also one of the biggest cut nuts on this board, so in terms of light return/performance - well, you are choosing from the best of the best :sun:

I hope GOG can get that video for you - they both look gorgeous! I couldn't pick one from just those pics!
 

Amys Bling

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marcy|1306802701|2934102 said:
The first one is on hold. Oh no - I hope it's you.

I am no expert at all on Asschers but I like the second one better just from the picture no other reason. I think they are both very pretty.

I agree, something about the second one makes me like it more.
 

Karl_K

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Since these are my babies I am very limited in what I can say.

I think however I can address a technical issues.
Notice the center looks much closer one to the other in the regular pic than the ASET?
With these diamonds a fraction of a mm difference in the girdle plane in the ASET and or the slightest tilt changes how the center looks from red to green to blue in ASET.
Since the real world in not a symmetrical lighting environment with very sharp zones that doesn't happen in the real world.
They just flash with the slightest tilt.
We had to go to tuning them by eye rather than ASET for QC for this reason.
Those P3 facets are fine tuned on every stone to achieve my and Yoram's (co-designer/cutter) approval on the final look.
 

kenny

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I'd be happy with either Octavia, since they both must meet the high standards of the brand.

I bought an Octavia and LOOOOOOOVE it.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pop-the-cork-i-just-bought-the-first-ocatvia.132337/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pop-the-cork-i-just-bought-the-first-ocatvia.132337/[/URL]
It is a bright fireball, especially for an asscher.
Karl K, who designed the Octavia, is a genius.

The main reason I'd choose the larger one is, well, it's larger.
All asschers face up small for their weight so I want the largest one I can afford.

Also the larger one got higher polish and symmetry grades.
Even though this may not be noticeable to the layman's eye, I just get a warm fuzzy feeling when things are closer to the bullseye.
I also LOVE and am happy to pay extra for VVS clarity, which again will not be noticeable to the layman's eye, or even a pro's eye without a loupe.

Some of the differences between the images may be attributed to the photographic set up.
Tiny changes in lighting or environment or how perfectly the stone is pointing into the center of the camera's lens can make surprising difference in reflector images.

I can't wait to hear your reaction when you see your Octavia.
Be sure you're sitting down when you open the box.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Both cuts would be awesome, I would get the bigger one.

Unless it is noticably more tinted. I would ask Jon about that.
 

SFGuy

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
27
Karl_K|1306810460|2934212 said:
Since these are my babies I am very limited in what I can say.

I think however I can address a technical issues.
Notice the center looks much closer one to the other in the regular pic than the ASET?
With these diamonds a fraction of a mm difference in the girdle plane in the ASET and or the slightest tilt changes how the center looks from red to green to blue in ASET.
Since the real world in not a symmetrical lighting environment with very sharp zones that doesn't happen in the real world.
They just flash with the slightest tilt.
We had to go to tuning them by eye rather than ASET for QC for this reason.
Those P3 facets are fine tuned on every stone to achieve my and Yoram's (co-designer/cutter) approval on the final look.
Hi Karl, and let me please say that (though I haven't yet seen one in person) very impressive work! Thanks also for your quick follow-up.

I apologize that I may not be the quickest on the uptake here, but I'd like to make sure I understand your response correctly. It seems that you are saying that the two diamonds look much more similar to one another in the normal photos than the ASETs. And it seems that you are saying that the reason for this is because getting consistent results from ASET for Octavias is very difficult in general. Therefore, it seems that perhaps ASET may not be an optimal mechanism for measuring angular light performance of this cut and thus these stones.

Did I understand that correctly?
 

SFGuy

Rough_Rock
Joined
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Messages
27
Hi Kenny. Thanks for your detailed response. Comments inline, below...

kenny|1306811486|2934232 said:
I'd be happy with either Octavia, since they both must meet the high standards of the brand.

I bought an Octavia and LOOOOOOOVE it.
[URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pop-the-cork-i-just-bought-the-first-ocatvia.132337/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/pop-the-cork-i-just-bought-the-first-ocatvia.132337/[/URL]
It is a bright fireball, especially for an asscher.
Karl K, who designed the Octavia, is a genius.
Indeed, your photos of the Octavia have helped to spark my own interest in these stones. As an aside, I just also stumbled across Karl's website, and if I'm reading this correctly, the 1.07ct that I'm considering is actually the second production sample cut.

The main reason I'd choose the larger one is, well, it's larger.
All asschers face up small for their weight so I want the largest one I can afford.
I hear that, but I'm already stretching my budget quite a bit to get an Octavia at all. I might be able to stretch it a bit further if I absolutely must, to get a better cut (in the form of the 1.15ct, if it actually is better). But there's always going to be something a bit bigger for a little more money, and I must be careful not to go down that road.

Also the larger one got higher polish and symmetry grades.
Even though this may not be noticeable to the layman's eye, I just get a warm fuzzy feeling when things are closer to the bullseye.
I also LOVE and am happy to pay extra for VVS clarity, which again will not be noticeable to the layman's eye, or even a pro's eye without a loupe.
That's all true, but I'm far more concerned with getting excellent visual performance from a well-rated diamond than from putting more money into purely a higher rating.

Some of the differences between the images may be attributed to the photographic set up.
Tiny changes in lighting or environment or how perfectly the stone is pointing into the center of the camera's lens can make surprising difference in reflector images.
I too am concerned with that.

I can't wait to hear your reaction when you see your Octavia.
Be sure you're sitting down when you open the box.
I can't wait to see my GF's reaction when she see's her Octavia. :)
 

SFGuy

Rough_Rock
Joined
May 30, 2011
Messages
27
Dreamer_D|1306813920|2934261 said:
Both cuts would be awesome, I would get the bigger one.
Much as I'd love a bigger stone, there needs to be more than just that for me to justify the additional cost. Budget is already somewhat tight as it is.

Unless it is noticably more tinted. I would ask Jon about that.
This part has me a bit confused. They are both I colored, so shouldn't the tint be the same?

For that matter, the I color has me slightly nervous. I've never seen an I in person (the lowest color grade my jeweler had in stock was an H), and I hope it's colorless enough.
 

SFGuy

Rough_Rock
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May 30, 2011
Messages
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marcy|1306802701|2934102 said:
The first one is on hold. Oh no - I hope it's you.
It is. :)

I probably should have clarified that.

I am no expert at all on Asschers but I like the second one better just from the picture no other reason. I think they are both very pretty.
Yeah, the more I looked, that was sorta my reaction as well. But I'm not the impulsive type, so I want to do my research on this.

Thanks for the quick follow-up.
 

JulieN

Super_Ideal_Rock
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13,324
All color grades are a range, and also graded face-down and subject to human opinion. I also would pick whichever one was whiter.
 

Karl_K

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SFGuy|1306814631|2934268 said:
Hi Karl, and let me please say that (though I haven't yet seen one in person) very impressive work! Thanks also for your quick follow-up.

I apologize that I may not be the quickest on the uptake here, but I'd like to make sure I understand your response correctly. It seems that you are saying that the two diamonds look much more similar to one another in the normal photos than the ASETs. And it seems that you are saying that the reason for this is because getting consistent results from ASET for Octavias is very difficult in general. Therefore, it seems that perhaps ASET may not be an optimal mechanism for measuring angular light performance of this cut and thus these stones.

Did I understand that correctly?
Your welcome.

ASET does a pretty good job of showing the optimized light return of the cut.
It is not 100%, particularly in the center of predicting how it will look in person.
ASET is just one criteria of many that went into the design.
 

kenny

Super_Ideal_Rock
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If you are still undecided about which to buy and can swing it buy both and return one within the 100% money back time window.
It will only cost you the return shipping and insurance, which should be under $50, a small price to pay for being sure.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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Sorry, I thought one was a J. Still, as Julie says there is a variation in tint within a color grade, which can become more noticable as you get into the I/J range, and also different base colors creating the body color (yellow most common, less commonly grey, brown and others) and that can affect apparent color. Anyways, I would personally ask Jon which one is more beautiful.

If budget is tight, get the less pricey one. The size difference is pretty small so it is not a big sacrifice!
 

dreamer_dachsie

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SFGuy|1306816118|2934279 said:
For that matter, the I color has me slightly nervous. I've never seen an I in person (the lowest color grade my jeweler had in stock was an H), and I hope it's colorless enough.
You will know when you see it how you feel about the color. I would not worry too much, it will not scream *YELLOW* or anything. It might just look a little warm. On its own, body tint is not very noticable in the near colorless range, it is only when compared to more colorless stones. The cut of this stone means it has so much life, too, that it will make body color less noticable in general. But you will know when you see it! Diamond color is a very personal preference.
 

SFGuy

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kenny|1306843824|2934354 said:
If you are still undecided about which to buy and can swing it buy both and return one within the 100% money back time window.
It will only cost you the return shipping and insurance, which should be under $50, a small price to pay for being sure.
Yeah, I've actually thought about that. Not totally sure how GOG would be with that plan, and the insurance policy might be difficult. I'm having the policy for the stone bound as soon as they mail it (though technically it's not my responsibility until I sign for it), but that only works for a particular setting. I don't know if I can bind a policy for two stones on the same setting. But it's something to keep in mind.
 

SFGuy

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Dreamer_D|1306860614|2934522 said:
SFGuy|1306816118|2934279 said:
For that matter, the I color has me slightly nervous. I've never seen an I in person (the lowest color grade my jeweler had in stock was an H), and I hope it's colorless enough.
You will know when you see it how you feel about the color. I would not worry too much, it will not scream *YELLOW* or anything. It might just look a little warm. On its own, body tint is not very noticable in the near colorless range, it is only when compared to more colorless stones. The cut of this stone means it has so much life, too, that it will make body color less noticable in general. But you will know when you see it! Diamond color is a very personal preference.
Yeah, that's what I'm hoping for. I think I won't really know until I see it.
 

SFGuy

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Spoke to Matt at GOG today. He's going to compare the stones for me tomorrow, and also put together a video as well.

Anxiously waiting. :)
 

kenny

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SFGuy|1306885405|2934872 said:
Spoke to Matt at GOG today. He's going to compare the stones for me tomorrow, and also put together a video as well.

Anxiously waiting. :)
Ask him to put them both up side down against a white card under various lighting.
This is the most critical way to evaluate color.
Once they were both set I doubt even an experienced GG could see any difference between this GIA I and AGS I.
 

SFGuy

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kenny|1306886059|2934885 said:
SFGuy|1306885405|2934872 said:
Spoke to Matt at GOG today. He's going to compare the stones for me tomorrow, and also put together a video as well.

Anxiously waiting. :)
Ask him to put them both up side down against a white card under various lighting.
This is the most critical way to evaluate color.
Once they were both set I doubt even an experienced GG could see any difference between this GIA I and AGS I.
I'm primarily concerned with difference in the fire and brilliance of the two stones, and less so with minute color differences. My color concerns are just whether or not I can accept an I-colored stone.
 

dreamer_dachsie

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kenny|1306886059|2934885 said:
SFGuy|1306885405|2934872 said:
Spoke to Matt at GOG today. He's going to compare the stones for me tomorrow, and also put together a video as well.

Anxiously waiting. :)
Ask him to put them both up side down against a white card under various lighting.
This is the most critical way to evaluate color.
Once they were both set I doubt even an experienced GG could see any difference between this GIA I and AGS I.
I would not bother with that particular comparison since what matters is what you see when its set. I would probably put more stock into a viewers' opinion on whether the stones are differentiable, personally. I doubt there is a difference.
 

SFGuy

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Just got the video from GOG:

http://vimeo.com/24525231

I have to say, they both seem to have great fire and brilliance. Other than the size (and the slightly more reflective table of the one on the right), I don't see much difference between the two. In fact, the one of the left appears to sparkle just slightly more (but that could be my own bias :) ).

Thoughts?
 

yssie

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Gosh - I think they look quite different!

I prefer the one on the R. Fewer, but bigger flashes, to my eyes.
 

chamois

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The one on the right for me too, much more white/coloured light flashes than the other one, and it is slightly bigger.
 

kenny

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The one on the right because its table is a larger percentage.
Even thought it is only 3% larger (35% vs. 32%) this spec is critical to one aspect of its performance, IMHO.
Here's why.
The largest flashes of color you will see in the Octavia are from the largest-looking facets, which are under the table.
The table being just a LITTLE larger lets those under-table facets appear MUCH larger, because they quickly get larger as you move away from the center of the diamond.

Watch the video again with this in mind.

Since you offered it for comparison I assume your budget can handle the larger one.
IMHO, that makes this a no-brainer.
I'd get the larger one.
I think it is well worth the extra cost.
 

SFGuy

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Well folks, thanks for all of the advice! I ended up switch my order to the 1.15 carat Octavia, based in part on the advice from you folks here. I just picked up the stone from UPS yesterday and it really in stunning. Took it to the jeweler to check it out better, and even they were impressed with the cut and brilliance.

However, I am a bit surprised of just how much I notice the I-color. I'm going to have to spend the next few days figuring out if its acceptable to me (and, ultimately, if it would be acceptable to her). Sadly, there aren't any higher color Octavias available now in my price range.

Thanks again for the help.
 

yssie

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Good luck SFGuy!


Some more thoughts -

1. What sort of setting are you planning on? A very open setting will allow the viewer to see more of the stone's body colour, esp on the sides where it is most visible, whereas you can "get away with" a bit more tint with a closed design. A setting with lots of bright white full-cut melee right beside the stone also highlights slight tint to my eyes - not so with single cut melee, though.

2. What metal are you planning on? slightly tinted stones can look quite different in colour depending on what metal colour you choose.

3. What colour is her skin? My J looks much much whiter against my darker skin than it does against my best friend's very pale skin.
 
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