Color or Carat?

[msop04]

When I was helping my brother shop for diamonds, he didn't read D/E diamonds as "whiter" than H/I, he read them as "bluer." So he was seeing the absence of yellow tint, but not interpreting it as whiter. I thought that was super interesting.

Funny you mention this, distracts... that's pretty much how I see the D/E colors -- as bluer.

 

[msop04]

I know it costs more but in my mind, if I want a diamond I want it to have higher specs, to me that is what a diamond is, if I am going for a J SI2 to me it may as well be an amethyst or a more common stone as it is a more common priced item and there are more of them available or bought due to cost it seems.

What diamond does have is that a lot of its qualities are invisible to the naked eye.

This is just silly. Amethyst does not sparkle like a diamond, look like a diamond, or have the everyday durability of a diamond. And the idea that somehow if a diamond a particular grade in color and clarity that somehow doesnt count as a diamond is what makes this sound elitist.


In different cultures different aspects are valued. In Asian cultures the highest color and clarity are valued. Where many US buys would consider a D IF 1 ct a waste of money when considering the alternative

In the US size is valued.

If the OP is from the US, and whats a stone that looks white and doesnt have any visible inclusions and is big... look at an I SI1 and get as big as you can. If you have time time to look around at diamonds with her, look at Js and Ks. As they will face up "white" and might be satisfying to the eye. D does not mean better it means less tint. You are sold by diamond companies that D is prettiest and it goes down from there. Some people dont like Ds. Many prefer the more colorless "water" feel of a G/H rather than a stark D/E color.

It took me a long time time realize this, as its something that isnt always easily obvious even on a diamond education forum like this.

this diamond is you and our fiance's. no one elses. Get educated, figure out what you guys like then buy what you like. because this is way too much money to spend on something just because some people on a forum say "dont go below an H"

SO TRUE. Different cultures value different things!!! Thank you Niel for clarifying this.

+1

 

[msop04]

Colour is a really subjective thing and there are no right or wrong answers. If a slightly lower colour will drive you nuts and or bug you then obviously that is important to YOU, for other people this might also be the case and for others having a lower coloured diamond doesn't bother them at all.

I do however agree that I would be trying to get the best possible size within that budget with a colour you can live with. This might mean that you need to go and see or send back a forth a few diamonds before you find the right balance for you.

This exactly.

 

[baby monster]

When I was helping my brother shop for diamonds, he didn't read D/E diamonds as "whiter" than H/I, he read them as "bluer." So he was seeing the absence of yellow tint, but not interpreting it as whiter. I thought that was super interesting.

Funny you mention this, distracts... that's pretty much how I see the D/E colors -- as bluer.

That's what my DH said too when we were looking at stones. "Do you like the blue or yellow stones?" I don't see the blue.

 

[msop04]

When I was helping my brother shop for diamonds, he didn't read D/E diamonds as "whiter" than H/I, he read them as "bluer." So he was seeing the absence of yellow tint, but not interpreting it as whiter. I thought that was super interesting.

Funny you mention this, distracts... that's pretty much how I see the D/E colors -- as bluer.

That's what my DH said too when we were looking at stones. "Do you like the blue or yellow stones?" I don't see the blue.

I don't start to see yellow until I get to about K or see only the sides of J and lower... I don't see blue from the sides of D/E -- only face up. When I look at G-I (and well-cut Js), I see "white" when face up.

 

[pyramid]

My view is not the normal I know because diamonds in the UK don't have certificates although a very few are available, and they are maybe 1/4 carat but house prices are maybe £200,000 for a 3 or 4 bedroom and more in London and big cities. So diamonds to me are for the very rich, ie. royalty or Brad Pitt and obviously D flawless or some such.

I'd love to know where this house is in London! I live in a 2 bed leasehold flat in an up and coming area, or so we're told, that was valued at over £450,000. Houses (and flats!) are pricey!

I think this is why also I was told diamonds are very expensive, so if a D flawless is more than a J SI1 obviously I think better diamond because more expensive means better that is what diamonds are as opposed to other affordable jewellery say - rather than saying amethyst. (I knew that was wrong as I said before your reply). It is just my view, I know it is wrong and different, and I know that.

I believe the difference is for me growing up as a 20 year old to get a diamond is something to aspire to whereas for people in the USA to get a 1 carat was something to aspire to, over here then only an older doctor or some such could have afforded that. The diamonds I would have seen would have no color or clarity or size on them and forget cut. There would have been lots of clusters and maybe 8 solitaires all this in the windows from £120 to £800 unless you went into the jeweller and all you would see would be couples really dressed sitting in there and maybe looking at a 0.60 diamond for ages and ages and it had no cert or details either.

A half carat on a 20 year old was usually, is it real or fake and if it was white - must be fake, no more questions asked and you believed it, that is what it was like for most people, these are office working people not professional doctors etc but just what diamonds were thought of in the UK and still are to an extent.

There's a really great thread about diamonds in the UK v US here which gets into it in more detail [URL='https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/are-diamonds-in-the-uk-smaller-than-in-the-us.164666/']https://www.pricescope.com/community/threads/are-diamonds-in-the-uk-smaller-than-in-the-us.164666/[/URL]

In general I think things in the UK, or at least London, are changing a bit. Bigger is becoming better to a point. I have a 0.47 I received from my then in his early 20s boyfriend. His friend's wives wear a 1 carat family stone, 1/2 ct with pear sides, 1/2 ct with round sides, 1 wears only a band. In going to wedding fairs with these women on a couple of occasions they didn't wear the biggest rock in the room by far! I know that's not a representative sample though.

Your view isn't wrong and different, it's just your view. It's a mind clean thing, isn't it? And for most of us that's a balance of price, carat, colour, and clarity. Price being equal I'm sure a lot of us would go for higher colour diamonds, but it's not. If I wore a D / IF I'd be wearing a 1/5 carat diamond rather than the 1/2 carat I wear. I can't think of any situation where I'd chose to buy a D / IF in that size. I've never been asked about the stats of my ring and very few people, if any, get close enough to study it and determine the colour and clarity. Now being in the UK if someone were spending $30K and insisted on that price I'd chose a smaller diamond with a lower colour and clarity. 2 carats in the UK is huge! This guy is in the US though where size reigns king, after cut, of course!

Rhea

I was speaking about houses in a city in Scotland, Aberdeen the third largest city in Scotland after Glasgow and Edinburgh. There are houses there too for £600,000 but the average house price is £200,000 or it was in 2007 for a 3 bedroom.
Yes, I have only been in London once in a taxi going from a train station to another and know that house prices are extreme.
I could not even afford Edinburgh ever.
Y

 

[Christina...]

I know it costs more but in my mind, if I want a diamond I want it to have higher specs, to me that is what a diamond is, if I am going for a J SI2 to me it may as well be an amethyst or a more common stone as it is a more common priced item and there are more of them available or bought due to cost it seems.

What diamond does have is that a lot of its qualities are invisible to the naked eye.

And I would not be happy to have a D VS1. I would be so pissed to know I overpaid. I'd take a J SI2 any day! Different strokes and all that...

I know it is different strokes, I would like to know why I feel the way I do, I can't say I want a J SI2 but don't know why, honestly!

Have you had the opportunity to view an I SI1 next to an F VS? That may be the reason you feel one is superior to the other...you've never had the opportunity to evaluate them side by side on your own. Therefore you have bought the hype that one is more 'valuable' and 'desireable' than the other. In truth only the purchaser or wearer can make that determination and only after being able to make that determination in a side by side, apple's to apple's comparison.

 

[FirstTimeBuyer128]

She said yes!

And as I suspected she doesn't want to even consider changing it for another diamond (even though everyone had great suggestions). She only wants the one I picked out.

I think it looks great though!

 

[happybear]

It looks fabulous on her finger!
Congratulations!!

 

[LaraOnline]

I am surprised to hear AGS might be softer on grading color as I hadn't read this before and it makes me more concerned. I don't want to buy an AGS I if it's really even lower than that...

I don't think you should be overly concerned with this. AGS is a well-esteemed grading outfit. Individual experiences and comparisons are not really a scientific way to ascertain how a lab grades as a whole.
To ease your mind, I could tell you that I have an AGS G that is twice as large as my GIA F, but to my eyes seems to have less colour.That's the truth in my experience.

Personally, I am a little colour sensitive, and I was nervous to go to G for that stone. However, I am very happy I did. I'm not sure I would go lower in colour at this time.

However, this G stone is also an SI2. It is perfectly eyeclean from the top, and mostly from the side. If I turn my diamond just so, at a very specific angle, an inclusion becomes visible against a well lit background (like a bright daylight window). Another degree, and it is gone again. I have only found this 'winking inclusion' once or twice in my year of owning this diamond. I quite like it.

If you are second guessing yourself, I personally would look more at compromising on clarity than colour. You could drop to VS2 with little risk. But stay picky, picky, picky on cut!!! Run everything through Gary Holloway's tool, and make decisions on that. I'd much rather have a beautifully cut 1.8 than a dull 2c.

ETA: I just saw you presented the ring! I'm sorry for not reading through the entire thread. Congratulations! It looks lovely!

 

[pyramid]

I know it costs more but in my mind, if I want a diamond I want it to have higher specs, to me that is what a diamond is, if I am going for a J SI2 to me it may as well be an amethyst or a more common stone as it is a more common priced item and there are more of them available or bought due to cost it seems.

What diamond does have is that a lot of its qualities are invisible to the naked eye.

And I would not be happy to have a D VS1. I would be so pissed to know I overpaid. I'd take a J SI2 any day! Different strokes and all that...

I know it is different strokes, I would like to know why I feel the way I do, I can't say I want a J SI2 but don't know why, honestly!

Have you had the opportunity to view an I SI1 next to an F VS? That may be the reason you feel one is superior to the other...you've never had the opportunity to evaluate them side by side on your own. Therefore you have bought the hype that one is more 'valuable' and 'desireable' than the other. In truth only the purchaser or wearer can make that determination and only after being able to make that determination in a side by side, apple's to apple's comparison.

Yes I have seen an I next to an F and can see the difference straight away from the side. Starting at H I don't like seeing body color especially indoors. I don't see as Hype that one is more 'valuable and desireable' because if the F were not this then it would be the same price as the I would it not? There has to be something measurable there for the F to be more expensive.

 

[Dancing Fire]

If I were to get a RB, I would get one with the best cut, clarity as low as SI1 providing it is eye clean, colour in G/H, and the biggest that I can afford.

DK

Me too!..

 

[Dancing Fire]

Awww, your OH is a very lucky lady!

One of the many reasons why my ex is an ex, is because he would never have thought about surprising me with a piece of jewellery.

I dropped enough hints about wishing I could have a larger EC/upgrade my 3-stone EC engagement ring for years without success.

Hence when I decided to part with him, I spent the money I saved for five years that was meant for a grand holiday for us to celebrate my 40th birthday on a EC instead. That's the hint of sadness I was referring to in my previous post.

Good luck, and I wish you both much happiness in the future.

DK

for the past 10 yrs I have been hinting to my wife about a 2.5ct rb...she must be deaf!..