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Are diamonds in the UK smaller than in the US?

sweet_pea

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I've heard people say that the average size of diamonds in the UK are much smaller than in the US. Why is this? Do some people from the UK think that the American sized engagement rings are just showy? I doubt any of you pricescopers would think that, but I'm talking about the general public. I've been over to England twice and I noticed that most women didn't even wear that much jewelry. I've also heard that they are more expensive in the Uk, is this true?
 

Rhea

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Yes, the diamonds worn by people in Europe are generally smaller than diamonds worn by people in the US. I don't know for sure why this is, but I imagine that it's because of priorities, price of diamonds, and cost of living. Yes, diamonds are generally more expensive in the UK than the US if you're just walking into a high street jeweler.
 

Porridge

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Yes, diamonds are much smaller and even smaller again in Europe. It's very common throughout Europe to just wear a plain band, no diamonds at all. I don't really know why, except to say that it doesn't apply to diamonds, it's everything really. Cars, houses etc...I'm speaking VERY generally here of course, but everything in America is bigger.
 

Pandora II

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sweet_pea|1313959630|2995883 said:
I've heard people say that the average size of diamonds in the UK are much smaller than in the US. Why is this? Do some people from the UK think that the American sized engagement rings are just showy? I doubt any of you pricescopers would think that, but I'm talking about the general public. I've been over to England twice and I noticed that most women didn't even wear that much jewelry. I've also heard that they are more expensive in the Uk, is this true?
A carat is considered BIG over here. People aren't taken in by the De Beers nonsense of x number of months salary. It's more usual for a couple to shop for the ring together after the engagement, coloured stone rings are also very popular.

It seems to me from reading on PS that a lot of American men feel that they need to keep up with their friends in terms of size of ring and that it's almost a sign of your success if your SO is sporting a large diamond. Friends of mine here who are both on 6 figure salaries GBP often only have a 1/2 carat and everyone thinks that that is plenty big enough.

If I saw a girl in her early 20's with anything over a carat and she was British I would automatically asssume that it was a CZ until proved otherwise, on anyone under 40 with over 2cts I would think the same unless they worked in the industry. That isn't to say that there aren't bigger e-rings around - they are just uncommon.

Here housing and the general cost of living are extremely expensive (I live in London) and we pay a huge amount in taxes. People are careful with disposable income and jewellery isn't that high on the list - or at least not jewellery costing tens of thousands of pounds.

Our sales tax is 20% so that also adds a big whack onto the price of jewellery. I've found in general you pay around 30% more than US prices.

That is not to say that people aren't interested in bling. I'm hopefully soon to qualify as a gemmologist (waiting for results) and whenever I tell people what I study they are all instantly fascinated - but tell me how wary they are of buying anything in case it's not what they are sold it as - again the jewellery profession seem to shoot themselves in the foot for some reason again and again!
 

centralsquare

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I'm not European, but I also feel like I see non-diamond engagement rings more frequently amongst Europeans. They just doesn't seem to be less diamond-centric vs Americans.
 

Phoenix

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Pandora|1313968506|2996020 said:
sweet_pea|1313959630|2995883 said:
I've heard people say that the average size of diamonds in the UK are much smaller than in the US. Why is this? Do some people from the UK think that the American sized engagement rings are just showy? I doubt any of you pricescopers would think that, but I'm talking about the general public. I've been over to England twice and I noticed that most women didn't even wear that much jewelry. I've also heard that they are more expensive in the Uk, is this true?
A carat is considered BIG over here. People aren't taken in by the De Beers nonsense of x number of months salary. It's more usual for a couple to shop for the ring together after the engagement, coloured stone rings are also very popular.

It seems to me from reading on PS that a lot of American men feel that they need to keep up with their friends in terms of size of ring and that it's almost a sign of your success if your SO is sporting a large diamond. Friends of mine here who are both on 6 figure salaries GBP often only have a 1/2 carat and everyone thinks that that is plenty big enough.

If I saw a girl in her early 20's with anything over a carat and she was British I would automatically asssume that it was a CZ until proved otherwise, on anyone under 40 with over 2cts I would think the same unless they worked in the industry. That isn't to say that there aren't bigger e-rings around - they are just uncommon.

Here housing and the general cost of living are extremely expensive (I live in London) and we pay a huge amount in taxes. People are careful with disposable income and jewellery isn't that high on the list - or at least not jewellery costing tens of thousands of pounds.

Our sales tax is 20% so that also adds a big whack onto the price of jewellery. I've found in general you pay around 30% more than US prices.

That is not to say that people aren't interested in bling. I'm hopefully soon to qualify as a gemmologist (waiting for results) and whenever I tell people what I study they are all instantly fascinated - but tell me how wary they are of buying anything in case it's not what they are sold it as - again the jewellery profession seem to shoot themselves in the foot for some reason again and again!
Agreed!

People in the UK tend to prioritise more of their disposable income on food, housing, car, clothes, going out - generally/ roughly in that order with bling lower down their list; or at least that's been my experience and observation. I remember when I got my first engagement ring (from ex-FI), it was a little over 1ct and I was in my twenties then, everyone made such a big deal out of it and assumed that he was a stockbroker or some hot-shot highflyer making a 6-figure+ salary.

Of course, I've seen large jewellery there too, but usually at Christies auctions!
 

Jennifer W

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This is a really difficult topic to talk about without hurting feelings - it's about a culture clash! I find it really interesting though, so I'm going to share my thoughts. I don't want to offend anyone, that's the last thing I'm trying to do, so please read this with that spirit in mind. ;))

Yes, the cost of living is high here, and luxury goods are considerably more expensive than in the US. Still, we have a relatively generous minimum wage and some very wealthy people live here too. There is disposable income, and in some areas, rather a lot of it. Not nearly enough in other places, but that's a whole different thread. Sure, a lot of people really do struggle and have to prioritise paying for housing, putting food on the table and the other basics of life. Plenty others can spend a lot of money on luxuries (and our luxuries are way more expensive, so it really is a lot of money being spent on them). 20% tax, too.

So, why don't you see many bigger diamonds? I had this discussion with a couple of friends in the trade here a while back. One is an American who sells diamonds in Glasgow- he said it took him over ten years to accept that people don't want large diamonds in Glasgow. Not even very rich people, repeat clients who would spend thousands every year. They aren't interested. His take on it is that people just don't like or attach 'value' to diamond that are "too" large. He says that our group-think logic seems to go along these lines: diamonds are a rare and precious thing. Rare and precious things are supposed to be small.

While I think that's probably how some people see it, I think there's more to it that that. Another friend in the trade put it this way (and I think he's onto something): there's a vague, undefined feeling of inferiority deep within our collective psyche. We don't wear big diamonds because they are for other people. Aristocracy maybe, or royalty. We need diamonds, to mark our life stages - engagement, weddings, the birth of our children, but any diamond will do - a diamond is a diamond. We don't really attach status to them. That's what luxury German cars, regularly re-fitted kitchens and flat-screen TVs are for here. ;)) If you aren't royalty or aristocracy and you're wearing a really big diamond, I think some people see it as just ever so slightly comical (or fake, as Pandora said).

One of the reasons I think this is maybe getting close to being the explanation is that people here think I'm odd. I have some nice diamonds, and they are large by local standards. However, I have an old, old car and a tiny little TV, no computer or video games etc. That's about lifestyle choice and sustainability, but I don't discuss that, and some of my friends feel sorry for me since I'm obviously poor (I'm not). They try to give me their cast-off electronic equipment every time they upgrade (regularly). I've even had one friend offer me a car. Seriously. So, I'm going to say that diamonds are rather overlooked as status symbols here, with the focus on other things. I can wear my 1ct EC, my 2.5ct eternity band, my 2.5cttw 5 stone, my 1.69 pear necklace (before I traded it up) my 3.5cttw tennis bracelet and a pair of 1.12cttw studs, and people (who know these are real diamonds) will still assume I'm struggling financially because I have a ten year old car.

With all that said, things are changing. In a lot of ways, stuff is getting bigger here too. Minimum space standards in housing, appliances, fridges, cars, and yes, diamonds. Women of my age and younger are starting to want (and wear) bigger stones. Ten years ago when I got engaged, a 1ct diamond was over-the-top comically large and I got a lot of sideways looks and eyerolls. Now, no one notices it. Diamond shrinkage is a NATIONAL phenomenon! :-o

As I said, I'm not seeking to offend or belittle anyone's taste, choice or diamond. I do think this an interesting topic and one I've hashed over with friends several times. We've never really pinned down an answer, and I'd hate to hurt anyone's feelings by expressing these ideas here - not least because for what it's worth, I'm with Mara on this. My diamond is too large when I am unable to raise my hand... :bigsmile:
 

Pandora II

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That's a really good post Jennifer and I think you are very right!

I'd say that status symbols in London are your postcode, your house and, if you have kids, which private school you send them to. Cars are a PITA here in the city and so not as important.

Outside London cars assume more importance. My father is a doctor and always drove a Citroen 2CV - he was a rural country GP and needed something small and reliable to bomb around the lanes and farms in. Many people were horrified that he didn't have a 'status symbol' car to match his job. My father thinks the purpose of a car is to get from A to B as cheaply and reliably as posssible and doesn't get the 'car' thing - however he does spend money on antique furniture and paintings!

Although my e-ring is a coloured stone, I wear an antique 3 stone-OEC of over 2cttw which is a total fireball and noticed all the time. It's a lot bigger than most of my friends and extended family's e-rings - but because of my semi-professional interest in bling it is viewed as one of my eccentric foibles otherwise I think there would be quite a few sideways glances.

Rare and precious things being small is also a definite perception here. I think jewellery set with multiple smaller diamonds is seen in a good way because of this.

I have friends who work in some of the high-end jewellers in New Bond Street and they very much rely on overseas customers as the big spenders - mainly from the Middle East.
 

Jennifer W

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Pandora, DH drove a 2CV until it fell apart, literally. He was a partner in a fairly high status professional practice and it made the other partners a little bit crazy that he wouldn't have a high status car (wouldn't even borrow one of the office cars to go to site visits). Nope, he just trundled on in his little old Citroen. I have a big old Citroen, and for my 40th birthday in a few years, my "status symbol" gift is going to be a perfectly restored Citroen DS, the most beautiful car in the world. No one I know (except DH) will like it or understand that it's rare and valuable. That's 90% of the charm. :bigsmile:

Status symbol post codes in London are no joke - a friend of mine just bought a 2 bedroom flat in Wimbledon. :-o You'd get an ancestral home with a small farm, a village and rolling acres of parkland for that money where I live!
 

Porridge

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I LOVE the Citroen DS. My neighbour had one for years, it's a beautiful car. I hope you'll post a picture of yours when you get it!
 

Phoenix

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That's interesting, Jennifer and Pandora. Cars are a status symbol here in SG too (along with bling, housing, clothes, handbags, shoes etc :tongue: ), but they are ridiculously expensive! DH and I used to own a Hyundai SUV and it cost us some SG$60k (abt GBP30k) 3.5 years ago which we sold off before we went to Shanghai. Now the same car costs double that amount! :angryfire:

My nephew who just moved here from London was planning to get a Porche in London has now abandoned the whole car thing altogether. He now cycles to his job in the city! :twirl:

ETA: on the housing thing, *everywhere* in Singapore is horrendously expensive! The best postcode in SG is in Sentosa and no-one we know personally lives there but last time I looked a semi-detached house there costs something like SG $25-30million - at least!! :o
 

Jennifer W

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Porridge|1314025372|2996519 said:
I LOVE the Citroen DS. My neighbour had one for years, it's a beautiful car. I hope you'll post a picture of yours when you get it!

I will, but I'm still clinging to my 30s for three more years... :bigsmile:
 

Jennifer W

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Phoenix, I think the smart people cycle in London. It's just too congested to drive (and driving is penalised financially too, with a congestion charge).
 

Pandora II

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Jennifer W|1314025976|2996529 said:
Phoenix, I think the smart people cycle in London. It's just too congested to drive (and driving is penalised financially too, with a congestion charge).
Or buy a Prius - congestion charge exempt! :wink2:

Don't tell me about house prices - I live in a 'cheaper' area of London, but when DH was looking a job in Aberdeen he brought me home some estate agents details. For considerably less than the price of our 2 bed flat we could have bought a 5 bedroom beautifully restored granite house with 1 1/2 acres of mature gardens bordered by a river with fishing rights! ;( And Aberdeen isn't exactly bargainous!
 

Porridge

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Jennifer W|1314025899|2996526 said:
Porridge|1314025372|2996519 said:
I LOVE the Citroen DS. My neighbour had one for years, it's a beautiful car. I hope you'll post a picture of yours when you get it!

I will, but I'm still clinging to my 30s for three more years... :bigsmile:
If you have three years left in your thirties, then that puts you firmly in your mid-30's. I know, because I am very certain that I am still in my mid-20's ;))
 

Miss Sparkly

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60k for a Hyundai!? Crazy. In my area of the USA houses and kids are status symbols. I don't want kids and I am very happy renting so I'm not the norm here. Since cars are so highly prized, do most people lease or buy?
 

Jennifer W

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I dunno. I've only ever bought a car with cash I saved up, but my friends all have really shiny new cars that they replace every two or three years with newer, shinier ones. I don't think they lease them, but I'm pretty sure they don't pay cash for them either.
Porridge said:
Jennifer W|1314025899|2996526 said:
Porridge|1314025372|2996519 said:
I LOVE the Citroen DS. My neighbour had one for years, it's a beautiful car. I hope you'll post a picture of yours when you get it!

I will, but I'm still clinging to my 30s for three more years... :bigsmile:
If you have three years left in your thirties, then that puts you firmly in your mid-30's. I know, because I am very certain that I am still in my mid-20's ;))
How very perceptive of you. I am indeed in my mid 30s. I'm glad you see it that way, too. :bigsmile:

Pandora, you can get some really nice house for London money up here (except in Edinburgh). I love having no immediate neighbours and a lot of privacy, and that just isn't available in London unless you have millions to spend (and even then, it's tricky). I wouldn't thank you for a Prius in London either - the congestion charge would look like a drop in the ocean next to the parking charges. I'm going to guess it's a bit of a challenge finding anywhere to park anyway!
 

JuneRose

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This is a HUGE generalization but I think British culture also tends to shy away from obvious status symbols like diamonds -people prefer less flashy, more subtle signs of success (such as the "right" postcode) and a very large diamond would be seen as quite "new money" by a lot of those who have money to spend. We also aren't brought up with the "diamond=true love" story in the way you are in the US. I am aware that there will be many many exceptions to this rule, but I think this part of our culture goes a long way to explaining the trend.
 

Pandora II

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I sat on the Planning Committee for a big central London borough for 4 years and all the new residential developments (some for 100+ units) we did had a couple of parking spaces for disabled people and that was it. No residents parking onsite and new residents were not eligible for parking permits. So you couldn't live there and park a car in the vicinity unless you paid for a private garage - which don't actually exist round there. The general policy across London is to make it as difficult and expensive as possible to afford a car in order to cut down.

To be honest you don't need one in the city - public transport is great and there is no parking that doesn't cost $8/hour and upwards.

Where I live is still not that developed and although we are very central we have secure parking at home and free parking on the street as well. I know some of my neighbours who don't have cars rent their garage space out for a small fortune!

That said, cycling is dangerous here. DH has a Brompton and used to cycle to work - after 3 near-misses he stopped.
 

Jennifer W

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My MIL used to rent out her garage and driveway in Cambridge after she gave up driving. I believe it resulted in quite a lot of disposable income. If only I could do that - we have a double garage and parking for at least 4 cars on top of that (if you squeeze 'em in). I could build a carpark where my orchard is now. Who needs fresh fruit for free anyway? :rodent:
 

Dancing Fire

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Phoenix|1314025530|2996523 said:
ETA: on the housing thing, *everywhere* in Singapore is horrendously expensive! The best postcode in SG is in Sentosa and no-one we know personally lives there but last time I looked a semi-detached house there costs something like SG $25-30million - at least!! :o
going by household %... Singaporean are the riches people in the world.15.5 % of the people are millionaire compared to the US at 4.5 %
 

centralsquare

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Dancing Fire|1314038150|2996706 said:
Phoenix|1314025530|2996523 said:
ETA: on the housing thing, *everywhere* in Singapore is horrendously expensive! The best postcode in SG is in Sentosa and no-one we know personally lives there but last time I looked a semi-detached house there costs something like SG $25-30million - at least!! :o
going by household %... Singaporean are the riches people in the world.15.5 % of the people are millionaire compared to the US at 4.5 %
Oh interesting...why is that DF?
 

kenny

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In addition to everything mentioned so far, I wonder if another factor contributes to the British being happy with smaller diamonds than Americans.
British royals have some of the largest diamonds in the world and the gems are not just for pleasure; they play an official role.
They are symbols of power and royal status.

I've heard England has a more classed-based society than America is.
Maybe buying the largest diamonds they can afford is not as likely to enter the minds of Brits who are not in the top social tiers, when compared to Americans with identical spending power.

rj.jpg

royal-scepter-great-britain.jpg
 

Phoenix

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Sparkly Blonde|1314029571|2996591 said:
60k for a Hyundai!? Crazy. In my area of the USA houses and kids are status symbols. I don't want kids and I am very happy renting so I'm not the norm here. Since cars are so highly prized, do most people lease or buy?
That's approx USD50k for a Hyundai SUV some 3.5-years ago. The same thing is now approx USD100k!! :angryfire: Yes, I know, tell me about it!!

Most Singaporeans buy their cars, but they put them on a finance scheme since most still can't afford to purchase them outright.

We're so upset we sold ours (and at a loss too, since it was in the middle of the last downturn) cos we thought we'd be in Shanghai for 5 years. Now, we can't afford to buy the same car again or more accurately, it just seems so stupid to spend that kind of money on a car and not even a high-end one! :nono: We're taking public transportation and taxi's but I have a feeling it's only a matter of time before we lease a car. Just can't bring ourselves to buying one.
 

Dancing Fire

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centralsquare|1314064693|2997052 said:
Dancing Fire|1314038150|2996706 said:
Phoenix|1314025530|2996523 said:
ETA: on the housing thing, *everywhere* in Singapore is horrendously expensive! The best postcode in SG is in Sentosa and no-one we know personally lives there but last time I looked a semi-detached house there costs something like SG $25-30million - at least!! :o
going by household %... Singaporean are the riches people in the world.15.5 % of the people are millionaire compared to the US at 4.5 %
Oh interesting...why is that DF?
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/06/11/where-the-worlds-millionaires-live-the-top-10-countries/
 

centralsquare

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Dancing Fire|1314075455|2997156 said:
centralsquare|1314064693|2997052 said:
Dancing Fire|1314038150|2996706 said:
Phoenix|1314025530|2996523 said:
ETA: on the housing thing, *everywhere* in Singapore is horrendously expensive! The best postcode in SG is in Sentosa and no-one we know personally lives there but last time I looked a semi-detached house there costs something like SG $25-30million - at least!! :o
going by household %... Singaporean are the riches people in the world.15.5 % of the people are millionaire compared to the US at 4.5 %
Oh interesting...why is that DF?
http://www.dailyfinance.com/2010/06/11/where-the-worlds-millionaires-live-the-top-10-countries/
Interesting...exports and manufacturing. They must be growing a ton!
 

Pandora II

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kenny|1314066243|2997079 said:
In addition to everything mentioned so far, I wonder if another factor contributes to the British being happy with smaller diamonds than Americans.
British royals have some of the largest diamonds in the world and the gems are not just for pleasure; they play an official role.
They are symbols of power and royal status.

I've heard England has a more classed-based society than America is.
Maybe buying the largest diamonds they can afford is not as likely to enter the minds of Brits who are not in the top social tiers, when compared to Americans with identical spending power.
I would say it is the other way round nowadays. Large diamonds are more likely to be 'bought' by the nouveau riche (footballer's wives and similar).

The aristocracy and upper classes prefer to inherit their jewels than buy them! Obviously this means that at some point someone did have to do the buying though. Certainly the Georgians were very into buying expensive jewellery and flaunting the fact.

In the case of the Royal family, a lot of the serious stones were gifts from far flung parts of the Empire, a fair number of stones in State pieces are also rock crystal and the real thing is hired in for things like coronations.

I've helped a couple of Peers with e-rings (I used to work in the House of Lords), one was a coloured stone, the other a 1/2 carat diamonds...
 

Jennifer W

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Pandora|1314092647|2997230 said:
kenny|1314066243|2997079 said:
In addition to everything mentioned so far, I wonder if another factor contributes to the British being happy with smaller diamonds than Americans.
British royals have some of the largest diamonds in the world and the gems are not just for pleasure; they play an official role.
They are symbols of power and royal status.

I've heard England has a more classed-based society than America is.
Maybe buying the largest diamonds they can afford is not as likely to enter the minds of Brits who are not in the top social tiers, when compared to Americans with identical spending power.
I would say it is the other way round nowadays. Large diamonds are more likely to be 'bought' by the nouveau riche (footballer's wives and similar).

The aristocracy and upper classes prefer to inherit their jewels than buy them! Obviously this means that at some point someone did have to do the buying though. Certainly the Georgians were very into buying expensive jewellery and flaunting the fact.

In the case of the Royal family, a lot of the serious stones were gifts from far flung parts of the Empire, a fair number of stones in State pieces are also rock crystal and the real thing is hired in for things like coronations.

I've helped a couple of Peers with e-rings (I used to work in the House of Lords), one was a coloured stone, the other a 1/2 carat diamonds...
I bet it was nice quality, right? Diamond size just doesn't correlate to social status or even income here, but quality is important
 

Amys Bling

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Porridge|1313961378|2995919 said:
Yes, diamonds are much smaller and even smaller again in Europe. It's very common throughout Europe to just wear a plain band, no diamonds at all. I don't really know why, except to say that it doesn't apply to diamonds, it's everything really. Cars, houses etc...I'm speaking VERY generally here of course, but everything in America is bigger.

Ver true! While honeymooning in Italy I saw that most married women I saw - even ones in their twenties- wore plain yellow gold bands.
 

AmeliaG

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When I lived in Germany, I didn't see anyone with a diamond or even a colored stone. They were into metal. Workmanship was VERY important; much more important than I'd say it is here in the U.S.

But over time, status symbols tend to change. Jewels are one of the oldest status symbols but since then a lot of new ones come along to compete.
 
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