Color & clarity for OEC 5 stone: did I give up too fast?

[evergreen]

Since the beginning of the year I got CRAZYOBSESSED with the idea of a rose gold transitional/OEC 5-stone. (You guys have been there, right? Right?) I read all the 5-stone threads I could find and did some calculations and decided to go with about 1.75cttw for my 6.5 finger. And then I figured that since I don't have a true 5-stone emergency, and I have more like a 3-stone budget, why not go the manual search route? As gorgeous as LAD/JBG's offerings are, the well-matched sets were pretty firmly out of my price range for 1.75cttw if they even existed (at one time).

So, then I hit eBay. There were some good risks and some notsogood risks, and I ended up with a motley crew of 7 stones (well, 6 of similar character... well, 5 of similar size and character -- transitionals with the slightly lower crown and flatter table that will keep them extra safe in their setting, happy about that!) They would go into the ring in this order exactly.

Here they are:



There's a pretty substantial range of color, though. Here are my best guesses (nobody is cert'd, of course...and ignore the one on the far right, he's definitely too small and didn't make the cut):



Lucky for me, I'm not color- or clarity-sensitive, because there are also some... clarity features. The 3 I can see without loupe help are circled -- the worst-worst is on the far right, a big ol' carbon spot, which surprisingly I actually can't see beyond about 18" even looking for it (it gets lost and just looks like contrast).



When they're all in the gem box, at ring distance away, they all look pretty to me! Sparkly, and though if I pay attention I can tell which is the "included" side and which is the "tinted" side, I've tried to arrange them so there aren't terribly abrupt changes in face-up color, while penalizing the included ones by pushing them to the edge. I dropped them off at the jeweler's to be set into a shared prong setting like the Brian Gavin version -- http://www.briangavindiamonds.com/wedding-and-anniversary-bands/eternity-bands/five-stone-shared-prong-18k-white-gold-5408w18 -- which protects their thin girdles and will incidentally keep me from seeing much of their pavilions, thereby further disguising the color.

I already know that these stones are "mind clean" for me. But I'm getting anxious because, like many PSers, my diamonds aren't in fact forever -- there is always the possibility of wanting to sell this for something different. And now there's even a ring I'm eyeing on eBay with two potential replacement stones, but the photos are bad and I can't tell if they're OECs, trannies, included, whatever. The description is of no help except for carat weight, which is in the correct range.

Did I jump the gun? For people with pretty flexible color and clarity tolerances, could you imagine putting together a ring from D-L and SI1 or better (truly, my loupe is terrible) down to probably I2? It'll be set in RG, which I think will help, but... argh. Would *you* buy the eBay ring and hope for the best?

 

[FightGravity]

If you don't care about the clarity range and are happy with the most included stones...well then I think you can stop worrying about that

That D stone pops out at me as an oddball in both color and size, though. I'd try to hold out for another H/I stone in a diameter closer to the other ones. I'd put it on the end instead of the center if you really really want to use it.

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Are you seriously thinking you can buy loose stones on eBay and make a decent ring for less cost than just buying the ring you want????
I am curious
Because I am a doubter
but happy to be proven wrong

 

[evergreen]

Ouch, Garry , but unequivocally yes -- for my own purposes. My great asset in this search is that, personally, the color and clarity differences as you see in this set of stones do not bother me. I was impatient and bought all of these stones over the course of a month, and there were only 2 that I bought (one in an antique ring that I couldn't bear to take apart, and one was too small) that I will not be using. The eBay route is a terrible idea for people who want a five-stone with ideal RBs, but for OECs it still seems reasonable.

I could have found a better-matched set if I waited longer, paid more, or -- the easiest route -- waited for one of the trusted sellers of OECs on this board to find a set for me. But 1.75cttw-ish OEC sets from those sellers can be $3000 (see http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/matched-pairs-and-suites/1-83ctw-5-stone-old-european-cut-diamond-suite#.Va0NBcZVhBc -- 5 I/VS stones), and while they definitely have better overall clarity and some would have better color (all would have better-matched color, certainly), I paid considerably less, for -- admittedly! -- considerably less well-matched stones. The cost of setting the stones at a local jeweler's will be somewhat more than via an online vendor, but I prefer it for this project.

For people who need perfectly-matched stones to get "mind clean", this route will not be for you. If I'd required that I would still be looking, possibly forever, and would end up selling a lot of stones that were "off" and it would be a big pain and definitely not financially sound. So, Garry, I do think you should continue to doubt that it is quick and easy to do, though I do think it is a good choice for people who have the time and accept the risk and want to put in the work and have broad color/clarity tolerances and for whom the reduction in cost is important. I do think I was fortunate in that these are all trannies, and their faceting pattern matches reasonably well, although that was not always apparent from the eBay listing; there is definitely luck involved as well.

This is a loaded question (since your original question was quite loaded, as well), but is a "decent ring" one that the owner admires despite its imperfections? I do think that's what I'm getting out of this experience.

Thanks, FightGravity. I think you're right, the middle stone is probably the least-well-matched. One of its diameters is about 4.3mm (it's a little ovalish) and while it could be set NS to minimize the visible impact, the color still is a little jarring. I'll look around a bit! I wonder if it will be more or less obvious once set in rose gold? I was hoping the RG would minimize the color differences as a pleasant collateral benefit, but I could also imagine that the contrast between that middle stone and the RG might make the difference more obvious.

 

[JDDN]

Hi Evergreen,

FWIW, I think that a "decent" ring is one that the owner thinks is beautiful and enjoys wearing. In fact, it would be more than decent, it would be wonderful. We all have different opinions or standards on what constitutes a quality or beautiful piece of jewelry. And I would venture to say that within one person's collection there will be different levels of quality for various reasons.

I have no testament to the prices of loose diamonds on ebay so I could not comment on what is more cost efficient, but clearly you've done your research. If the color differences and the clarity do not bother you, then I believe you're on the road to a ring you'll really love.

I think that the bright white stone (the E?) may be highlighted by the rose gold rather than be minimized by it. If you have the funds and can find another, then like FG suggested an I or H stone may give you a more seamless look.

Keep us posted on your project and we'll of course want to see pictures when it's completed!

 

[smitcompton]

Hi evergreen,

I bought my first diamond ring, 2cts HI bagettes si2-i1. As I saw more and more diamonds, I was less satisfied than originally. I think very good eyes would see some carbon spots at the edges. But, I still like it, just not as much. I have much nicer.


Annette

 

[evergreen]

Annette, that's about where I am with this -- it isn't my first diamond ring, but I guess it is my fourth! (a teeny tiny maul 3/4 eternity ring from my then-boyfriend, then my e-ring from the same guy who's now my husband, and a starlight eternity from LT... I'm a little dismayed that that's all, actually!) Can you believe I didn't notice a carbon spot in the diamonds in the starlight eternity - which I still love and wear often - until about a year's worth of daily wear? Fortunately my standards match my budget at this stage, and I can look forward to the "much nicer" in the future as my tastes become more exacting! That's why I had a sudden moment prompting this post since tastes do change and I might outgrow this ring someday. But I think instead of freaking out about what others think - with the possible exceptions of a stone swap! - I should just plan to enjoy the ring unreservedly for what it is. I'm so excited about it!

JDDN, thanks for confirming the worries about that middle stone RG singled out. It isn't often one wishes for a less colorless stone but as soon as I saw it that's what I wished for! I would have liked to keep them all in the K/L range, ideally, but I think you're both right that an H/I would probably smooth over the color gradient best. I promise lots of pictures - what sort of lousy PSer would I be if I asked for advice and didn't come back with the goods!

 

[ericad]

Goodness, I think your stones are awesome finds considering you assembled the parcel yourself off of ebay - I'm impressed!

When I look for, or try to assemble, a parcel, I first screen for face up size and facet "compatibility" (meaning reasonably similar patterns and color). I think your stones are very evenly sized and the facet patterns are spot on - the trannies will look amazing in a ring - I am presently quite tranny obsessed myself!

Face up, I don't detect too huge of a color difference from the pics, but assuming these are all about the same size (and not graduated - they look the same size in the photos) then I would use the whiter stones in the middle, with the warmer ones on the ends.

Choosing a setting style that will block the body color will also help - like bezels, or recessed into hexagon or octagon baskets, etc. That way you'll only see an occasional glimpse of body color through the crowns, which will be barely detectable at this size in the right setting. You may notice the color more in the shared prong style setting but that's totally subjective and I never mind a little color variance in old cut 5 stone rings.



I applaud a great ebay find - I think you did awesome!

 

[tyty333]

Evergreen, I also think it will be more than decent! I'm really impressed that you have matched them this well so far.
I like the idea of putting the stones together yourself. Old stones are not perfect and I dont feel like it has to be a
completely "perfect" match set (IMO). That's the beauty of old stones. They all have personalities and I like them for
their differences and oddities (but that's me). I think that only you can decide whether the 5 stones match enough for
you to enjoy them. I predict all the sparkle will help to make the inclusions disappear.

I'm also in the process of trying to put together a graduated 5 stone. I can tell you it will not be perfect. Will it be nice enough
for me to enjoy. Absolutely!

Keep us posted on your journey. Post pictures when it's done!

edit - and you got the thumbs from an expert Ericad!

 

[Garry H (Cut Nut)]

Ouch, Garry , but unequivocally yes -- for my own purposes. My great asset in this search is that, personally, the color and clarity differences as you see in this set of stones do not bother me. I was impatient and bought all of these stones over the course of a month, and there were only 2 that I bought (one in an antique ring that I couldn't bear to take apart, and one was too small) that I will not be using. The eBay route is a terrible idea for people who want a five-stone with ideal RBs, but for OECs it still seems reasonable.

I could have found a better-matched set if I waited longer, paid more, or -- the easiest route -- waited for one of the trusted sellers of OECs on this board to find a set for me. But 1.75cttw-ish OEC sets from those sellers can be $3000 (see http://www.jewelsbygrace.com/loose-diamonds/matched-pairs-and-suites/1-83ctw-5-stone-old-european-cut-diamond-suite#.Va0NBcZVhBc -- 5 I/VS stones), and while they definitely have better overall clarity and some would have better color (all would have better-matched color, certainly), I paid considerably less, for -- admittedly! -- considerably less well-matched stones. The cost of setting the stones at a local jeweler's will be somewhat more than via an online vendor, but I prefer it for this project.

For people who need perfectly-matched stones to get "mind clean", this route will not be for you. If I'd required that I would still be looking, possibly forever, and would end up selling a lot of stones that were "off" and it would be a big pain and definitely not financially sound. So, Garry, I do think you should continue to doubt that it is quick and easy to do, though I do think it is a good choice for people who have the time and accept the risk and want to put in the work and have broad color/clarity tolerances and for whom the reduction in cost is important. I do think I was fortunate in that these are all trannies, and their faceting pattern matches reasonably well, although that was not always apparent from the eBay listing; there is definitely luck involved as well.

This is a loaded question (since your original question was quite loaded, as well), but is a "decent ring" one that the owner admires despite its imperfections? I do think that's what I'm getting out of this experience.

Thanks, FightGravity. I think you're right, the middle stone is probably the least-well-matched. One of its diameters is about 4.3mm (it's a little ovalish) and while it could be set NS to minimize the visible impact, the color still is a little jarring. I'll look around a bit! I wonder if it will be more or less obvious once set in rose gold? I was hoping the RG would minimize the color differences as a pleasant collateral benefit, but I could also imagine that the contrast between that middle stone and the RG might make the difference more obvious.

OK, I stand proven wrong, but this is a porcess that few would have a crack at

 

[evergreen]

Whoa, hi, Erica! I'm feeling a little starstruck. Thank you so much for chiming in! And oh, it is so reassuring that you think that's a reasonable lineup. Hearing your thoughts on the stones makes me think I'm even luckier than I realized to get the group together.

I would have loved a bezel setting, but I know bezeling off-round stones can be more challenging (and probably not a job for the local shop, who doesn't have any particular experience with old cuts), and the diameters PLUS a full bezel would definitely run into the sides of my neighboring fingers. The diamonds are simply too big. Luckily while the weights range from 0.30ct to 0.37ct, the diameters are all from 4.2-4.4mm (even counting the wonkiness). The shared-prong setting my jeweler makes does set the diamonds quite low, obscuring most of the pavilion (almost up to the girdle, actually, which I like for protection), and the crowns on these trannies are not terribly tall, so I won't be able to see much of the diamonds from the side after all despite it not being a bezel.

Finding a good balance between hiding the most included stones on the edges vs hiding the most tinted stones was the subject of hours of wild-eyed staring. I thought carbon spot in the far-right diamond might be too big and obvious to earn a central position, even though it's one of the whiter stones. Incidentally, that carbon spot was described by the seller as "SI1-2," and only retrospectively visible in their (blurry) photos. Ebay. Such photography would never be tolerated on PS! I guess I'm choosing among several non-optimal combinatorial options, and especially with the way the diamonds curve around the ring it might be hard to predict what the best way would be. I don't know much about stone-setting, but I imagine it would be possible, though not ideal, to rearrange them after-the-fact if there is a glaring issue.

tyty thanks for the reminder about these stones - yes, personality! If I'd wanted a uniform 5-stone I shoulda gone with ideal RBs, but that's not me, and they're more special for being searched for & found. Even the carbon spot guy on the edge. The jeweler will be trying to hide stuff under prongs, too, and I agree it'll all probably get lost in the sparkle. Do you have a thread on your 5-stone, or is it a quiet & personal endeavor?

Garry, it's not for the faint-of-heart or the more-money-than-time or the perfection-only crowd, but I can't count myself among those.

 

[emmebee]

Goodness, I think your stones are awesome finds considering you assembled the parcel yourself off of ebay - I'm impressed!

When I look for, or try to assemble, a parcel, I first screen for face up size and facet "compatibility" (meaning reasonably similar patterns and color). I think your stones are very evenly sized and the facet patterns are spot on - the trannies will look amazing in a ring - I am presently quite tranny obsessed myself!

Face up, I don't detect too huge of a color difference from the pics, but assuming these are all about the same size (and not graduated - they look the same size in the photos) then I would use the whiter stones in the middle, with the warmer ones on the ends.

Choosing a setting style that will block the body color will also help - like bezels, or recessed into hexagon or octagon baskets, etc. That way you'll only see an occasional glimpse of body color through the crowns, which will be barely detectable at this size in the right setting. You may notice the color more in the shared prong style setting but that's totally subjective and I never mind a little color variance in old cut 5 stone rings.



I applaud a great ebay find - I think you did awesome!

This is the nicest response from one of the reigning experts on old cuts! Talk about an awesome validation of how well you did

 

[tyty333]

No thread as of yet. I've only just bought the center stone and may have a side stone in a ring that I already have (which
I'm not sure I want to canabalize ). So at the most I only have 2 stones. I'm trying to do a 4, 5, 6, 5, 4mm graduated
ring. It will take me a while to collect them all. Havent decided on the setting either. Would like to do something custom.
Maybe I'll have it to post in the next 5 years or so!