College Student - Question about Tiffany''s versus others

[Mara]

Jlim I hate to say it but I think you are the one with the closed mind. You tout your values over ours. You call us superficial. You argue when anyone else has an opinion that differs from the Tiffany but then a week later you change your mind and suddenly want to go for an .8ctw non Tiffanys *gasp* G stone? Amazing. Then when you feel people don't agree with you, you tell us that we are closed minded?

First off, no one is superficial for wanting a nice diamond. Diamonds themselves are luxury items, we don't need them to survive, one might say that wanting to get someone a diamond is superficial as well. Oh wait..its tradition? Is it tradition to want a Tiffanys stone for the blue box? Isn't that superficial? My point here is that throwing out adjectives can be completely objective. I think you are just a trouble-maker infringing uppn the happy peacefulness of our diamond forum. You think I am superficial for wanting a larger non IF stone. Great! Glad we got that out of the way.

Most of the women on here enjoy nice stones and the men who buy them for us.

You are here shopping on this board for a nice stone, we are trying to help with our opinions. If you don't want them...don't ask for them. It's simple as that. It always drives me insane when people post questions and then get upset when they hear the answers they don't want to hear. Don't ask! Find that 'TiffanysRocks.Com' forum and have at it.

Plus I hate to burst your self-righteous bubble, but many women make up this Pricescope board. Many of us have already said our piece and you will not change our mind, just as we will not change yours. It's not just about size but also quality. I would never take a I3 stone over a VS or an SI even if it was larger clarity. Also, you disparage the women on this board and then you continue to come back and keep asking questions? If we are so way off base and you know your girlfriend best, we obviously have no knowledge to share with you. Did I mention that many of us women on here (and guys too) have just gone through what you are going through and so therefore have some sort of firsthand knowledge?

I think a better question to ask is when given the option between an average cut 1c E/VVS1 and an excellently cut 1.5c H SI1...what would most women on here take?

For me..I'd take the 1.5c because its huge, its near colorless (and well cut H's face up whiter) and its 100% eye-clean. That's all I need. It really is about once you reach a certain carat weight you can focus more on other things. My stone is a 1.23 G VS1 and I adore it. Would I want an F or an E? Not really. I saw them against this G and they looked the same. I like the VS quality, but we also were looking at SI's. For me it was about the best balance between the 4cs...and that is what we got. It wasn't about 'giving up' one thing to have another. It's about compromise.

 

[jlim]

----------------
On 5/8/2003 12:35:23 PM AnnaMagdalena wrote:

While jlim accuses people of forcing their ideals on others, he himself labels opinions that differ from his as "superficial." hmmm
----------------

Read what I said again. I said it SOUND SUPERFICIAL TO ME. How many times do I have to emphasize that??

Do I tell you what your priorities are? I'm not the only one guilty of generalization. A lot of post are also generalizing that most women prefer carat over color/clarity, assuming cut is the same. After all, all the vendors here carry excellent cuts, right?

What I've said so far is what I believe. I never once said your choices are wrong. Show me one post where I said YOU SHOULD DO THIS and YOU SHOULD DO THAT.

Since you made the choice of clarity/color over carat, it is reasonable to assume that you'll support the carat over clarity/color debate.

Maybe I'm the minority here but you cannot tell me there's not 1 single woman here would choose a .48F/IF over a .84J/SI2.

Am I the only one here, male or female, would choose a .48F/IF over the .84J/SI2???

Btw, Anna, here's what Webster define superficial as:

1 a (1) : of or relating to a surface (2) : lying on, not penetrating below, or affecting only the surface

And no, choosing an F/IF is not superficial just because you cannot see it. Ask someone to explain the definition of superficial if you do not understand the word.

Choosing to ignore something flawed just because you cannot see it is being superficial. That's how I see it. Not necessary I'm saying you are being superficial. If I chose the J/SI2 over the F/IF, I'm being superficial. But I'm not saying you are being superficial if you choose a J/SI2. Everyone has their own set of values and standards. Mine just happen to be slightly different from yours.

 

[Mara]

Jlim I sure hope your intended can deal with you more effectively than we can, because you are driving us insane.

Maybe I'm the minority here but you cannot tell me there's not 1 single woman here would choose a .48F/IF over a .84J/SI2.

Am I the only one here, male or female, would choose a .48F/IF over the .84J/SI2???

Go back and read the responses. Don't they speak for themselves?? How much more do you have to beat the horse before you realize it is well past dead?

 

[jlim]

This is yet another thread that will not die.

Did I say I'm abandoning the Tiffany route, Mara? No. I have not said it. I already said many many times. I'm going to find the best I can get here for a set amount of money. Then I'm heading to Tiffany's and see what my money can buy.

I'm considering Tiffany is not because I like Tiffany. I'm considering Tiffany because I think my gf. might like a ring from Tiffany for whatever reason.

Again, Mara, you are using an ok cut vs. excellent cut. That is not a good argument as you said, an excellent cut will mask the imperfection.

Just stick to the original argument. Both stones have excellent cut.

The only difference in these 2 stones are color and clarity and the size difference.

Ask yourself the same question again with your example.

1ct E/VVS1 vs 1.5ct H/SI1

Both the same cut.

Better yet

1ct F/IF vs 1.5ct J/SI2

Both are the same cut. Assuming 1ct. as define as Mara as the acceptable size for most women here.

This should be interesting.

Sorry for hijacking your thread upenn_wyoming.

And I think it's time for you to respond. After hearing both side of the story, what are your thoughts now? Have the women in this board convince you that your wanting a smaller stone in favor of quality is wrong?

I do realize that most posters here are women and women who have made the choice of quantity over quality. I know I'm the minority. But you don't have to worry about me staying here for too long. Once I made my choices, you can go back to telling every other guy who comes along to to bigger.

I think Pontiac spoilt it for people like me with their advertisement for the Grand Prix years ago.

"WIDER IS BETTER"

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 5/8/2003 12:56:43 PM Mara wrote:
Jlim I sure hope your intended can deal with you more effectively than we can, because you are driving us insane.

Maybe I'm the minority here but you cannot tell me there's not 1 single woman here would choose a .48F/IF over a .84J/SI2.

Am I the only one here, male or female, would choose a .48F/IF over the .84J/SI2???

Go back and read the responses. Don't they speak for themselves?? How much more do you have to beat the horse before you realize it is well past dead?----------------

Mara....I'd be very careful about answering Jlim's question......he might construe it as you TELLING HIM WHAT TO DO instead of responding to a question HE ASKED.

Q. What do you think about this?
A. I think ..........(fill in whatever)
Q. WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME WHAT TO DO?????

What a waste of time.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------

You know what kills me? Those of you who have the mindset that what you see as ideal for you is ideal for everyone else and you want to force your mindset on those who do not see things your way. It is as if it is your mission in life to convert those who do not see things your way in order to validate the choices you made.

----------------

What kills me is your inability to see that *we* - an experienced group of diamond buying females - are all saying the same thing.

What kill me is *your* inability to see that *we* wouldn't choose a D/IF tiny stone. To suggest that we are trying to validate our choices is purposterous. In your nastygram send via PM to me, you *assumed* that I wish my 3c diamond to be a D/IF. Guess what - your wrong. I also, find it amazing that you can read your internet cystal ball and make any judgements about my ring. All this judgement from a guy who has never purchased a diamond.

My opinion on diamond buying is *not* to validate my choice or my purchase. My opinions come from years of viewing & buying diamonds.

Everyone on this board has their own threshold to the degree of balancing size vs quality. You may have your own. We were offering a women's perpective. You *assumed* that all we were interested in was the size of the diamond.

Upenn, we have hijacked your thread. I took your comment that size is the last of your priority on 4c's to mean you had no specific size in mind. You had a budget & wanted to get a good quality stone for your "to be". I am sure as we type that is precisely what you are doing. Hopefully, you are having the self-discovery of what "good quality" means to you.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
I never once said your choices are wrong. Show me one post where I said YOU SHOULD DO THIS and YOU SHOULD DO THAT.


----------------

Oh, then should I make public your nastygram?

Or better yet just go back a few posts and our opinions are only to validate our choices.

 

[upenn_wyoming]

Wow! You guys are awesome. So many replies and so much to sort through. You guys all have great opinions. My future (assuming she says yes) fiance had a good time reading your posts. She says "I don't need a diamond, all I want is a piece of string." So it isn't her that's the driving force behind quality (or size) or brand, it's more of my thing. I think given the choice, we would both like to know we have a quality diamond. We're looking at a princess cut diamond, and because I have yet to go check out a store, I don't know how different (the cut quality; ideal, very good, good) looks on a princess diamond, so it's all theoretical right now. The diamonds I've looked at so far have been mostly on Blue Nile. The two that catch my eye and my wallet are:

http://www.bluenile.com/details.asp?pid=LD00521006&query=2&filter_id=0
http://www.bluenile.com/details.asp?pid=LD00508366&query=2&filter_id=0

I'm not sure what some of the stats mean, so I still need to do some research, but because my girlfriend isn't worried about size, I'd really like to get a high quality diamond, VVS1-IF, F-D color, and Very Good to Ideal, and probably something right around or slightly under a .5 carat. When I go to check out brands, I will see how much that's going to cost me, and see how much my sliding scale is affected by brand interest.

All of your Tiffany insights have been helpful, and I appreciate it. I'm going to set up an appointment for two weeks from now, and see where it goes. In the long run, I'm a college kid, my girlfriend and I are both just poor college kids, and we realize down the road we'll be able to afford the kind of engagement ring we want. We love each other, and I'd just like to get her a small sized, high quality diamond we can both enjoy. Size is really secondary. Thanks for all of your help!!!!

-ryan

 

[jlim]

----------------
On 5/8/2003 10:32:18 AM Hest88 wrote:


I also know you keep harping on the "Asian" thing and have totally dismissed my statements about the preferences of my Asian (albeit mostly Asian-American, though not all) female friends and my very Asian female relatives. I suspect, as you put it, it's a female vs. a male thing. (Come to think of it, I also think it's much more of a Japanese thing than other Asian cultures. I know you're not Japanese, but perhaps you think they have a higher culture than you do?)

Would it hurt you so much to be a little open?
----------------

It is not an Asian thing but since I'm Asian, I can only speak of what I know but that does not mean I represent all the Asian people. Trichrome also shares some of my views and he said he's European.

Would it hurt me to be a little open? Well, of course not. Would it hurt you to be a little open and see where I'm coming from? My upbringing in every aspect of my life has been to value quality over quantity.

The biggest purchases one can make is buying a house. Then probably a car and then a diamond ring.

It'll probably kill you to know I bought a smaller, older house (no hardwood floor, no jacuzzi, no open foyer design etc.) over a brand new house with all the modern amenities for the same price.

You know why? There are about 50 school districts in the Detroit area (all suburbs included). I chose to buy a house whose school district ranks in the top 5 rather than one that is rank in the top 15 that I was looking at.

I'm single. I've no kids. Why do I worry about school districts? My decision may seem strange to a lot of you. Choosing a home built in the 80s over one that is built in 2001 (I bought the house 2 years ago).

People whose upbringing is from another country and culture values things very differently from those from this country.

There's no right or wrong way.

Just bare with me for a few more weeks and I'll be out of here of your hair. Till another guy who values quality over quantity comes along at least.

 

[Mara]

I would choose the 1.5 excellently cut H SI1. That thing will be a knockout..and big to boot. Yes I like big. I don't wear alot of jewelry. I wear jeans alot of the time. I have diamond studs and a diamond ring. I kind of like the incongruity of wearing jeans and flip flops with a flashy diamond ring. I think it's fun. I actually wish my ring was bigger! I'm already laying the mental groundwork for an upgrade a few years down the road.

FI has said if I 'behave'. We had a good laugh as that would never happen.

I have Asian friends who have and like smaller stones, but they also hardly ever wear their engagement rings now that they are married. That is not my mentality. Both of them have small stones around .3-.4 (which look like pinpoints to me btw) and they only wear their wedding band, bringing out the eRings for special occasions or a change of pace. I wear mine all the time. It's part of my daily routine to take it out and put it on in the mornings.

The phrase superficial means nothing when used on a *diamond* forum. We can all be termed superficial for being here and chatting about this anyway

We should all have no fear of posting what we really think for fear of being called superficial or greedy or whatever the current term is. People have different priorities. Some like cars. Some like diamonds. Some like stereos. Some like simplicity. It's your money, spend it how you see fit.

Oh and/or I would choose the 1.5 J SI2 as long as it was eye clean and excellently cut. It will face up whiter than a J and still be huge.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 5/8/2003 1

3

1 PM fire&ice wrote:

All this judgement from a guy who has never purchased a diamond.

----------------

Oh, F&I, it's even worse than that. As PQ pointed out, he won't even go LOOK at a damn diamond to get the first clue of what he is talking about. Instead of moving his lazy rear off his own computer chair, he waits for others to go to Tiffany's and then report back as to their findings. Won't likely even make a phone call to the almighty Tiff's.

I suspect it's because he's afraid of being embarrassed at his budget. Yes, $4500 is a very healthy budget for a gorgeous stone in the right venue, but not at BIG BLUE. I could be wrong in my opinions on this, but what the heck.....he's got no problem making wild assumptions about others' motivations, so I'll just call it like I see it.

Then....and this is the richest part.....in another thread, he asks for feedback and then wonders if he's being IGNORED when he gets no responses. Gee, do you think that could happen?

He assumes that cut, color, clarity, carat means that upenn wants THE ABSOLUTE highest quality color/clarity. I'd suggest that he's picked the .3 to .6 range because that's what available for a budget of $1500-$2500, but that's just my supposition, and I couldn't be sure without asking upenn.

Remember, quality is THE most important thing to jlim....unless it's from Tiffany's. Oh, and unless it's some bad cultural omen. Oh, and unless.....whatever else ends up really trumping quality. If that many things trump quality, then news flash: quality is NOT one's most important value, even though it is represented otherwise.

Anyway: Upenn, we'd be delighted to help in any way we can. What did you have in mind as a starting point for color/clarity? Knowing your starting point or parameters might help us help you more effectively.

 

[jlim]

----------------
On 5/8/2003 1

7:27 PM fire&ice wrote:

Oh, then should I make public your nastygram?

----------------

You don't have to post what I PM you. Sometimes it is not necessary to post something public when it best serves when done privately since it concerns no other people. But since you brought it up. I'll say it in public. I don't have a copy of that message.

Stop your crusade against Tiffany. Maybe you wish your 3ct. I/SI2 will miracly turn into an F/IF stone. Get a life.

Or feel free to post what I PM you and make it public.

That's nasty? You haven't seen nasty. But fortunately, it is not in me to use foul languages even to people I do not know and will probably never meet.

 

[Mara]

UPenn--If you are looking for a well cut princess stone. Check out SuperbCert.Com. I have heard the best accolades on Barry's princess cut stones. It's hard to find a well-cut princess stone, the nature of the cut itself leads to a little more light leakage than a RB would. But supposedly the SuperbCert princess stones are some of the best. I would give them a ring or drop an email and see what they have for you. Check out their site too but I don't know that they carry all inventory on the site.

BlueNile is great for mainstream purchases (e.g. diamond studs and/or diamond pendants) but when it comes down to the nitty gritty of a loose diamond purchase, I would highly recommend you check out some of the vendors such as GoodOldGold, SuperbCert, WhiteFlash etc that are discussed so often on the forum. Plus I have *heard* that BN sometimes can be a bit overpriced. So be sure to shop around and get more information.

Good luck!! It's great that your girlfriend can read our posts and laugh about it. Not all people are into the big size of the stones..I think it's excellent that your first priority is cut and not brand name. Finding an excellent cut will be a difficult thing with a princess, but do your research and don't be in a rush and you should be fine!

 

[jlim]

I find this amusing.

1 gazillion post saying maybe you should go larger ct. compromising on color and clarity

1 post from "the troublemaker, rigid, close-minded, ignorant, whatever else you want to call me" yours truly to value color/clarity over carat.

What does upenn_wyoming (Ryan) decides to get? A 0.5ct E/VVS1.

Bravo!

Even if you do decide to go larger, that's fine with me. Everyone has hir or her own priorities. Go with that you think your gf. wants.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 5/8/2003 1

9:47 PM upenn_wyoming wrote:

In the long run, I'm a college kid, my girlfriend and I are both just poor college kids, and we realize down the road we'll be able to afford the kind of engagement ring we want. We love each other, and I'd just like to get her a small sized, high quality diamond we can both enjoy. Size is really secondary. Thanks for all of your help!!!!

-ryan

----------------

UPenn, you are mature & sane. You are making a conscious decision. We did exactly what you are doing. I love my perfect little stone. On a big anniversary, I received my big rock. The engagement ring of my dreams.

The reason why I challege men on the quality issue is that many women, at the end of the day, just want a pretty stone that is of some size. Men tend to get really caught up in the specs. As my "to be" did.

Perhaps because I have done the perfect little stone, I did not desire to do it again.

 

[jlim]

----------------
Remember, quality is THE most important thing to jlim....unless it's from Tiffany's. Oh, and unless it's some bad cultural omen. Oh, and unless.....whatever else ends up really trumping quality. If that many things trump quality, then news flash: quality is NOT one's most important value, even though it is represented otherwise.
----------------

I wish there's an option to ignore a user on this website so their post will not show up. That way we do not see each others posting.

Let me tell you again aljdeway. What I want is secondary to what I think my gf. will want. The only reason to consider Tiffany is because I think my gf. will want a ring from Tiffany. It is not because if I go to Tiffany's I can forgo what I value. If I buy from Tiffany's it is because I think my gf. will want a ring from Tiffany more than what I might buy for her outside of Tiffany.

Ok, sure. Make fun of my culture and my beliefs. Chinese people are known to be the most supertitious people in the world. Buildings are built a certain way around the world and esp. in HK due to the beliefs and practices of Feng Shui. Rich and I mean really really rich people in HK model their lifes around this superstitious belief.

Just because it is not part of your culture and you do not believe in it, I don't think it is appropriate for you to take a cheap shot at my beliefs.

 

[AnnaMagdalena]

jlim, don't quote dictionary definitions to me; go back and read EXACTLY what I wrote. I was an English lit. major and know what the word superficial means. If you read my post carefully, you might discern my underlying point, which was stated another way by Mara:
>>>>The phrase superficial means nothing when used on a *diamond* forum. We can all be termed superficial for being here and chatting about this anyway We should all have no fear of posting what we really think for fear of being called superficial or greedy or whatever the current term is. People have different priorities. Some like cars. Some like diamonds. Some like stereos. Some like simplicity. It's your money, spend it how you see fit. >>>> If you start saying one set of ideals for diamond buying sounds superficial, anyone could easily argue that your set is superficial too. Diamonds, a luxury and a symbol, can hardly be construed as something profound in themselves.

Now I almost regret having gotten involved at all, but I got tired of hearing your declarations about Asian culture, of which I am no less a part than you. I did not want people on the forum to assume that all Asians have the same attitudes that you espouse so vehemently.

btw, look up in Webster how to spell "miracly," I do believe it's:
m-i-r-a-c-u-l-o-u-s-l-y.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 5/8/2003 1

9:47 PM upenn_wyoming wrote:
I'm not sure what some of the stats mean, so I still need to do some research, but because my girlfriend isn't worried about size, I'd really like to get a high quality diamond, VVS1-IF, F-D color, and Very Good to Ideal, and probably something right around or slightly under a .5 carat.

In the long run, I'm a college kid, my girlfriend and I are both just poor college kids, and we realize down the road we'll be able to afford the kind of engagement ring we want. We love each other, and I'd just like to get her a small sized, high quality diamond we can both enjoy. Size is really secondary. Thanks for all of your help!!!!

-ryan
----------------

Ryan, congrats on beginning to embark on the search for your perfect diamond.

The diamond you've described may be a bit harder to come by, but I'd suggest writing an email to some of the regular players on here (Whiteflash, GOG, Nice Ice, Superbcert, etc.)....and tell them your specs as you have above. If they don't have something available immediately, they are more than willing to look for you.

It's good that you ALREADY know what your girl wants....then you're not speculating on it.

At diamondbrokersofflorida.com, I found this:
.48 ct, F, VVS2, GIA certed, $1,088

At whiteflash.com, I found:
.55, D, VVS2, GIA certed, $1,774
.55, E, VVS1, GIA certed, $1,774 also
.56, E. VVS1, GIA certed, $1,795
.55, D, VVS1, GIA certed, $2,072
.60, D, VVS1, GIA certed, $2,391

I cannot speak as to the cut of any of them....you really have to see them as the standards for fancies are different. I hope these are a good starting point.

Good luck.

 

[Mara]

ALJ isnt taking a short at your beliefs. He's pointing out that suddenly after around 30 posts you started talking about superstitions and size whereas before it was not mentioned at all. Then all of a sudden it's 8 this and 8 that and you jump up in ctw .20 whereas .8 was too big originally.

 

[jlim]

Thank you Anna for correcting my spelling. You don't what to hear what my arguments are as far as correcting typos on public forum.

You are taking a separate argument and using the superficial term as used by Mara against me. It wasn't obvious when I read it. Sure, buying diamond as oppose to something more useful is better. I can be seen as being superficial in that sense.

But I was referring to choosing quantity over quality as superficial to me.

Hopefully I do not have any typo for you to correct this time.

This is my very last post about quality over quantity debate. I'll let another person in the minority to carry this on.

I've chosen the 3 diamonds that fit my criteria. Unfortunately, no one see any reason to suggest how I go about getting them appraised but rather waste all the bandwidth on this thread.

I'm as guilty as the next poster I admit. But enough is enough.

And to satisfy all of you, esp. Mara, I've decided to get a 0.5 ct. diamond. And the supertition belief was mentioned. I said very early in my post 2 weeks ago, that Japanese buys smaller high quality stone, Americans favor larger lower quality stones and Chinese buys x.88 stone. This is what a salesperson at Tiffany/Las Vegas said. Probably I didn't mention anything about my Asian/Chinese background.

Just kidding, Jonathan/GOG, Barry/SuperCert and Bob/WhiteFlash if you are reading this thread.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 5/8/2003 1:34:47 PM jlim wrote:

Ok, sure. Make fun of my culture and my beliefs. Chinese people are known to be the most supertitious people in the world. Buildings are built a certain way around the world and esp. in HK due to the beliefs and practices of Feng Shui. Rich and I mean really really rich people in HK model their lifes around this superstitious belief.

Just because it is not part of your culture and you do not believe in it, I don't think it is appropriate for you to take a cheap shot at my beliefs.
----------------

Excuse me, Jlim.....since you are so fond of holding people to EXACTLY what you said, perhaps you should LEARN TO READ what EXACTLY other people said!

I didn't make fun of your culture and/or your beliefs at all. I didn't take a cheap shot at them. I didn't say these are wrong reasons to make a purchase decision. I didn't make ANY judgement for OR against any culturally based factor.

ALL I SAID WAS THAT QUALITY IS NOT THE ABSOLUTELY MOST IMPORTANT THING TO YOU...that other factors (culture, name snobbery, etc.) trump quality as you see it. Perhaps you'll understand it in caps. Perhaps you should pick up that dictionary you keep telling everyone else about.

 

[fire&ice]

----------------
On 5/8/2003 1:19:13 PM jlim wrote:

----------------
On 5/8/2003 1

7:27 PM fire&ice wrote:

Oh, then should I make public your nastygram?

----------------

You don't have to post what I PM you. Sometimes it is not necessary to post something public when it best serves when done privately since it concerns no other people. But since you brought it up. I'll say it in public. I don't have a copy of that message.

Stop your crusade against Tiffany. Maybe you wish your 3ct. I/SI2 will miracly turn into an F/IF stone. Get a life.

My crusade against Tiffany's? - 1st it wasn't even mentioned in the PM. I have no crusade against Tiffany.......just a BUNCH of experience with what they sell. Have you forgotten that I buy & sell for a living - having handled numerous Tiffany & Co. items A living that enables me to make such luxury purchases. But, sadly, you choose to ignore experienced opinions.

Secondly, and I quote "Maybe if you say your I/SI2 stone is nice enough times it will turn into a D/IF. Get a life."

You felt that was so necessary to send via private message? Not nasty? Oh brother, yes you are a welcome ray of sunshine. What clarity you have brought to my life.

I must now inform you that you are too far from reality. M.S.S.

I'm done. My final word of advice - go look at some stones.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 5/8/2003 1:49:10 PM jlim wrote:
I've chosen the 3 diamonds that fit my criteria. Unfortunately, no one see any reason to suggest how I go about getting them appraised but rather waste all the bandwidth on this thread.
----------------
That's ABSOLUTELY right. I don't care how long you post here or don't, I'll not offer another suggestion to you of any kind, lest you should interpret it as telling you what to do. You're such a bright bulb, it seems, that you shouldn't need any input. You're a diamond expert without ever having laid eyes on a diamond, so I'm sure you can spin the same magic on the issue of appraisals. You're already roundly proven that you just want to argue....you DON'T WANT OTHER'S opinions, so I for one will honor that.

I already officially retired from this HUGELY STUPID debate a while ago, and I'll renew that commitment.

 

[aljdewey]

----------------
On 5/8/2003 1:20:17 PM Mara wrote:
UPenn--If you are looking for a well cut princess stone. Check out SuperbCert.Com. I have heard the best accolades on Barry's princess cut stones. It's hard to find a well-cut princess stone, the nature of the cut itself leads to a little more light leakage than a RB would. But supposedly the SuperbCert princess stones are some of the best. I would give them a ring or drop an email and see what they have for you. Check out their site too but I don't know that they carry all inventory on the site.
----------------

You know, I tried SuperbCert for Upenn, but Barry's smallest princess cut was 0.73-Carat, G Color VVS2 for $3291. I figured it was too large for Upenn.

Whiteflash did have an excellent selection, but again, it's hard to say they are all excellently cut without viewing them with the Idealscope/Firescope, etc.

 

[fire&ice]

Jlim, I am not going to read your PM - I can't figure out how to delete it. I'm done. If you have something constructive to say - say it to the board.

 

[pqcollectibles]

Hey Upenn~

I am not a closet "expert" on princess cuts, but I did see a girdle issue with both the Blue Nile diamonds.

The first one has a Thick to Very Thick girdle. That means lost diamond weight you pay for but don't see. It could also affect the performance of the diamond by being an area for light leakage.

The second one is Extremely thin to Slightly Thick. Rather unbalanced. Going from one end of the girdle thickness spectrum almost completely to the other end.

Princess cuts are beautiful, but I would suggest input from an expert to select a really good one. Try calling White Flash, Good Old Gold, and the other vendors that specialize in this cut. The Price Scope vendors aren't pushy types. I spoke with several before I settled on who I was going to purchase my diamond from. All of them were very helpful and friendly. And, even if they don't have something for you right now, they can keep an eye out for you.

 

[fire&ice]

As an Ad to PQ's remarks, girdles on princess cuts seem to be an issue. The craftsman who set my stone told me he does not set princess cuts w/ thin girdles. Evidently, it is easier to chip a princess cut stone w/ thin girdles at the points.

 

[Hest88]

Ryan, both you and your GF sound like wonderful, level-headed people.

The thing to remember about diamonds is that the most important C is cut. Stores usually tout clarity, color, and carat over cut because, I think, cut is rather complicated to explain. Yet, cut is the most important factor in the beauty of a diamond. I think of it this way. Bear with me. A fine diamond is like a piece of silk. You can have the nicest silk in the world, but if the tailor is incompetent then he'll make a shoddy dress--wasting that perfect silk. You can, though, have either a perfect piece of silk or a decent, if not perfect one, and in the hands of a master tailor create a masterpiece that makes heads turn.

So, if you think "diamond cutter" instead of "tailor" you can see, I think, why Cut is so important. A well cut diamond provides maximum sparkle and fire. A badly cut one, even if it's a D, IF, 2 carat one, is going to look almost as lifeless as glass.

Those Blue Nile princesses don't seem ideal if you want maximum sparkle. Barry at SuperbCert (and I'm not in any way affiliated) has branded princesses, and the jewelers I use, www.diamondbrokersoffl.com, also have a rep for great princesses. The thing is, it's really hard finding great princesses because most are cut to retain weight, not to dazzle the most.

Anyway, my advice is to read, read, read. Then look, look, look. If quality is what you're after and carat weight is unimportant, then get the best cut diamond you can, at the highest color and most flawless.

Also, with the caveat that numbers are not everything with fancies (hence why a trusted jeweler is important), here's the best princess chart out there: http://www.gemappraisers.com/chartFrameset.htm

Choose "princess" (obviously!)

Good luck!!!

 

[Hest88]

I'm the most Chinese, because of the "88" after my username.

 

[upenn_wyoming]

Thanks once again. Is there any info on the web about what the girdle means? I'll probably start going to talk to jewlers in a couple of weeks, any advice on what kind of questions I should ask. I definately want to maximize my sparkle, so when I look at diamonds, will I be able to tell the difference between a good cut and and Ideal cut? Again, I figure it's one of those things I need to just go look at and get a whole bunch of help on, but any info ahead of time would be greatly appreciated.

-ryan